On Dec. 17, CBS Network’s “60 Minutes” program aired a devastating expose of the violations of the rights of the Greek minority in Turkey.
Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew of the Greek Orthodox Church, headquartered in Istanbul, courageously criticized the Turkish government for treating him as a “second-class citizen.” He went on to state that he felt like he was being “crucified.”
This is perhaps the first time a major American TV network has dared to broadcast a program that reveals the discriminatory practices of the repressive Turkish regime against the Greek minority. It would appear that CBS was able to withstand the intense pressure Ankara and its highly paid Washington lobbyists routinely apply to censor programs that expose the Turkish government’s abusive behavior.
Not surprisingly, various Turkish officials, including President Gul, reacted angrily. Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu disingenuously suggested that the Greek Patriarch should have submitted his complaints to the authorities in Ankara. The foreign minister acted as if he was unaware that for years countless complaints had been lodged by the patriarch about the injustices suffered by his people. The Turkish government has not only remained unresponsive to these complaints, but has carried out a deliberate policy of harassment and intimidation to force thousands of Greeks, Armenians, Assyrians, and Jews to abandon their homes and businesses and relocate overseas.
Bob Simon, the correspondent for “60 Minutes,” reported that “at the turn of the last century, there were nearly 2 million Orthodox Christians in Turkey; 1.5 million were expelled in 1923, and another 150,000 left after violent anti-Christian riots in Istanbul in 1955. Today, in all of Turkey, there are only 4,000 Orthodox Christians left.” The figures quoted by Simon refer only to Greeks.
“I have visited the prime minister, many ministers, submitting our problems…asking to help us,” Patriarch Bartholomew told Simon. He never got a response.
“60 Minutes” further reported on its website that “Turkish authorities have seized Christian properties and closed Christian churches, monasteries, and schools.” The Greek “parishioners are afraid that the authorities want to force Bartholomew and his church—the oldest of all Christian churches—out of Turkey.” The Turkish government “would be happy to see the patriarchate extinguished or moving abroad, but our belief is that it will never happen,” Bartholomew told Simon.
Periodically, the harassment of Greeks and other minorities becomes deadly, as was the case with Armenian journalist Hrant Dink who was assassinated in January 2007 in front of his Istanbul newspaper office. In fact, just as Simon was ending his tour of the Greek Patriarchate’s headquarters, a Turkish policeman reported that there was a threat on Bartholomew’s life. Previous threats had been serious enough for the Turkish authorities to place cameras and barbed wire around the patriarchate and provide the patriarch with 24-hour protection.
Simon was soon to uncover that despite its Islamist façade, Prime Minister Erdogan’s government routinely violates the tolerance preached by the Prophet Muhammad who had written a letter to the Greek monastery on Mt. Sinai almost 1,400 years ago, offering protection and religious freedom to Christians. Simon lamented the fact that Muhammad’s message of goodwill had not been put into practice by the Turkish authorities. The Halki School of Theology, the only Greek Orthodox seminary in Turkey, was closed down by the government in 1971. Since Turkish law requires that all priests and patriarchs be native Turkish citizens, the shutting down of the seminary made the training of new priests impossible, jeopardizing the church’s continued existence in Turkey.
Unfortunately, CBS completely ignored the fate of Armenians and other persecuted minorities in Turkey, never once mentioning any of them. In fact, Simon seemed to deliberately ignore their existence.
In one particular segment of the program discussing the location of the Greek Patriarchate in Istanbul, Simon went as far as describing the neighborhood as having been “Greek and Christian.” This was yet another attempt to avoid acknowledging the Armenians. Without diverting attention from the trials and tribulations of the Greek Orthodox Church in Turkey, Simon could have made a passing reference to Armenians—the country’s largest Christian minority—who also suffered many injustices, including genocide!
Readers are urged to post a comment on the CBS website, praising the network’s outstanding expose of the abuses and persecutions experienced by the Ecumenical Patriarch and his flock in Turkey. Readers should also inquire as to why there was not a single mention of Armenians or other minorities who have also suffered under the Turkish yoke.
To post a comment, visit:
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6001717n&tag=mg;mostpopvideo#comments.
Harut Sassounian
Good article. But you need to post the correct link to CBS if people should be able to comment:
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6001717n&tag=mg;mostpopvideo#comments
My guess that this “60 Minutes” report on Turkey is, at least in part, “payback” by Jewish American groups who are angry that Turkey has recently been striking out at Israel.
It may also be partly an attempt by the US State Department and Neo-cons to send a signal to Turkey not to defy US policies, particularly regarding Israel, Syria, and Iran.
It is quite clear that Jewish American groups, such as the ADL and AJC (both of whom, in effect, deny the Armenian genocide), are much more upset with Turkey than they let on publicly. It cannot be otherwise. These groups are, however, hanging back on the Armenian genocide issue so that they can hold it like a sword over Turkey’s head.
By the way, the CBS reporter who reported the 60 Minutes piece , Bob Simon, was once a US foreign service officer (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Simon). He knows exactly what he is doing. Rest assured that neither Mr. Simon nor CBS nor 60 Minutes cares one iota about Greeks, Armenians, Assyrians, or anyone else in Turkey. They are all simply using Greeks and Christians to send a larger message to Turkey.
They didn’t mention the plight of Turkey’s other minorities but so much of Turkey’s atrocities have been covered up in the past that this was definately a breath of fresh air compared to the decades of carrot waving to the turks.
There is no way the US government or CBS would have allowed this to air unless they are trying to send a message to Turkey using the Greek and Christian minority, which by the way only a hundred years ago was equal in numbers to the muslims living in Asia Minor. What is unfortunate is that the Turkish government and the local radicals will punish the Patriarch and the churches still allowed to operate there will suffer. The Americans and the west will ignore this just like they ignore the Genocides by the Turks of Armenians and Greeks in the last century and once again we will be hung out to dry. How sad it is that peacefull Christians living in muslim countries are treated this way in these modern times we live in.
Yea, really what is next, a ban on church bells?
The US Government should be considered enablers of genocide denial. This is another example of the US Government helping genocides continue. Until it’s current policies change it should be viewed as such.
While it would be great for all minorities that have been under the yoke of the Turkish Empire (Ottoman forward) the Assyrians, Armenians, Pontic Greeks, Greeks, Kurds, Sufi’s, Balkans, Cypriots Bulgarians, Yedzgis…the list of Turkey’s bloody trail is long and their history very dark. Unfortuately even today, much of the world remembers Turkey’s past cruelty.
Sometimes speaking about each different groups struggles with the Turkish people and the ultra radical Grey Wolf group is better, then the Turkish Government cannot always say “its the Armenians again talking about all of their Tall Tales of Genocides”
Turkey Ultra radicals were responsible for shooting the last Pope, it is evident they have issues with Christianity and even other Moslem groups that are not of their particular sect (Sunni)
America can pretend that Turkey is their only ally in the Moslem world but the truth be known, Turkey is bought and paid for to the tune of $80 billlion in the last 10 years of US foreign aid.
We pay for the psuedo loyalty. Turkey in turn spoke out against the US invasion of Iraq and wouldn’t let our military use land bases from Turkey (former historical Armenia lands)
Turkey wants into the European Union, this is a push back from the European countries that do not want Turkey with all of it’s problems and poverty claiming to be “European”
Turkey was not called the “Sick Man of Europe” for nothing!
In my view the most significant and overt act of continuing cultural discrimination is the closing of the seminary and the requirement that the Patriarch be from Turkey( I am not certain if the law reads native or naturalized citizen). Think about this!!! With a dwindling Christian population,no seminary to train new priests and a requirement that future Patriarchs be from Turkey, this is clear
policy eliminate these ancient Christian churches(Armenian, Greek,etc) from Turkish. This is another
example of institutionalized racism towards people that were resident in Anatolia mileniums before the Turks, suffered from massacre and Genocide( Armenian, Greeks, Assyrians, Pontus Greeks) and now with a shadow of its ancient presence….. is subject to continued oppression. Code 301 gets a lot of visibility, but lets not forget the arrogant discrimination towards our faith.
Yes ,the CBS piece had holes,but our energyshould be towards painting this picturefor the U.S., the
E.U.and the rest of the world. It’s amazing that this doesn’t get more press,but in our secular world. apparently it’s tolerated. Our faith is our foundation and an attack on our institutions is an affront
to who we are. Amot!!
I sympathize with the Patriarch. However I am afraid the show did not help his cause a bit.
It is true there are problems with religious rights in Turkey. But there are problems even for Muslims, like forbidding headscarves in public places, particularly schools, universities and parliament, and the barriers for children from religious schools to enter universities. The existing laws pertaining to religion have not been created during the current government. The religious rights of Muslims is the main agenda of the current government but all the changes get stuck in Supreme Court, which is highly politicized and is clearly against the current government.
Patriarchs appearance on the show might make Turks hostile to the Church, which is till now was mainly ignored and unnoticed. There is already enough pressure on this issue coming from European Union. It would be better if the Church was not openly involved in the issue, so that not attract any hostility. There are too many other important issues on Turkish headlines right now, particularly the the rights of Kurds. Progress on Orthodox Church should not be expected until further in European Union talks.
Of course many Armenians might like seeing Turkey portrayed in negative light but it does not help the issue at hand, which is the religious rights of Ortodox Christians in Turkey.
It is also unfortunate that Turkey lost most of their Christian population, but with Turkey joining European Union some of that population hopefully might come back and make Turkey even more diverse.
Did you ever consider that the Armenian Patriach didn’t want to be interviewed or that he would not have supported the claims of the Greek patriarch? Do you remember our Armenian Patriarch, when interviewed during one of the April 24 occassions did not support our claims? This could very well have been a survival response for him, the Church in Turkey and the Armenians living in Turkey, but still he didn’t help us with his comments then.
In the early 1900’s the Turks held elections and allowed the minority groups to put forward their own representatives. The catch was that a minority representative had to accumulate at least 100,000 votes before gaining office. The Greeks at the time won 27 seats, which would correspond to 2,700,000 Greek votes. There were also hundreds of thousands of crypto Christians (especially in the Pontus Region) who outwardly professed to be muslim turks but in privacy were proud Christians and maintained a Hellenic identity. Many people estimate the Greeks to have numbered around 3 to 3.5 million in Asia Minor. Around 1.5 million came to Greece as refugees, what happened to the rest? Did they just vanish????????? I really don’t know how the report justifies a figure of 2 million Greeks.
The only difference between the Armenians and the Greeks has been that the Armenians have been more vocal in pressing the world community to recognize their suffering.
The report was soft on Turkey and did not divuIge too many facts, it simply provided a clear message for Turkey to tow the line, otherwise if they continue their “tough” stance then there will be consequences.
If anything this is great news for the Greeks and Armenians as in years gone by no major channel would have ever dared screen such a program. It’s a clear message that the movers and shakers of the this world are not happy with Turkey.
Whatever the motivation for CBS’s 60 Minutes airing this piece, it’s a shame (if not the typical travisty) that the’ve never done a piece about how muslims and Turks are treated in Greece (even to this very day), especially in Cyprus (from the 1950’s to the 1974 liberation) by the Greek-Cypriots. Turks were continuously treated as second class citizens all that time (when they weren’t being murdered by the Greek terrorist groups (the EOKA-A and the EOKA-B))! [Keep in mind that we haven’t even touched on the subject of the racisim, corruption and religious oppression occurring in Armenia even as we speak]! Do you ever hear one single word about any of this in the US media? No way! The religion card is always being played. They (the Western media) has denegrated Moslems for over a century without any response, reaction or even repercussions. Let hundreds of thousands Moslems get massacred, and you’re lucky if it makes it to the back of the classifieds in the New York Times. But have some Greek Christians be threatened, it now becomes banner news on TV and the print media all throughout the West!! So this whole situation all boils down to this one simple question…IS THIS JUSTICE, OR IS IT JUST US??!!! Simply remember the old saying before all you Christians in the West start your usual, self-rightious, racist-based finger pointing…PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN GLASS HOUSES…!!
Robert, you are living in a dream world. The injustices committed against the muslims in Thrace and in Cyprus are a slap on the wrist compared to what Hellenism has endured at the hands of the “righteous” Turks. Let me remind you of just a few events:
i) The massacre of about 1,500,000 Greeks between 1915 – 1922
ii) The extortionist tax system (varlik) that stole the wealth from the Christians and created the Turkish aristocracy, and let’s not forget the pogroms of 1956 which murdered and raped members of the Greek community and terrorized the survivors to abandon their homes and positions and to seek refuge and safety abroad. The list of violations are in fact countless.
Mind you when the treaty of 1924 was signed the Greeks of Imvros, Tenedos and Instanbul were allowed to stay and they numbered a total population of around 150,000. Likewise the 90,000 muslims in Greek Thrace were also allowed to stay. Half the muslims in Thrace were Turkish and the other half were Pomaks (Bulgarian/Slavic muslims).
After Turkey’s “non-discriminatory” treatment of the Greeks only 2 to 3 thousand remain in Turkey. The muslims of Greek Thrace on the other hand have increased to a total number of 120,000 and the unethical Turks have the gall to scream about rule violations and insist on referring to the entire muslim population as Turkish.
Also regarding the Turks in Cyprus I challenge any individual to provide me with a total number of Turkish deaths, I’ve yet to see a large enough figure that could ever justify the invasion of the island. Especially when you consider that 150,000 Greeks were being expelled from Turkey, why is it that 100,000 (17% of the population) Turks should enjoy so many right in Cyprus? There were probably a few hundred at most that were killed in the inter-communal violence, does that justify handing over half of the island to the Turks? This is were true western hypocrisy has come into play.
If Turkey deserves such a reward for the death of a few of it’s nationals then what should be the reward for the Greek and Armenian people that have endured countless genocides over the last 800 years. I assume that a just solution would be the liberation of Anatolia and handing it over to its rightful owners. Wouldn’t you agree Robert? Let me remind you that all of Anatolia was Christian and was invaded by the muslim Turks, who ethnically cleansed the region.
The west has for too long supported Turkey because of its geopolitical interests, and it’s great to see that such reports are finally starting to be aired. If there’s anyone that needs to be apologetic it’s the Turks, for their crimes against humanity. The west does not need to apologize to the Turks, they need to apologize to the Christians of the east who they betrayed in their hour of need, all for the sake of securing monetary and political gains.
Yes Robert, you’re right. No one is the west has ever defended or tried to help Muslims such as in Bosnia, Kosovo, Darfur. Meanwhile its Muslim killing Muslim in Afghanistan, Iraq, Kurdistan, Darfur…shall I go on?
You must be a Turk to wrote what you have written.
As a Turk, let me first state that in my opinion it is a damm shame that in the land that is pretty much the birthplace of Christian culture there are so few Christians left, no matter what the circumstances or reasons. I have been to as many Churches and Synagogs as Mosques maybe more, growing up in Istanbul, but a smaller percentage of Turks have the same experience now. Which is a loss for the country. I hope things change enough and non-Muslim communities fourish in Anatolia again.
As far as Ruhban Okul is concerned, the topic is a little more complicated than a simple religious intolerance. There are numerous legal issues around this, and I am not that deeply informed about all of them. Firstly, there is no legal or other obstacle to a Seminary school in Istanbul. It has to be, as any other school in the country, part of the Turkish education system. It is a very sensitive issue for various reasons, and this is not too different in many other countries. Again, for various reasons, the Patriarch demands an exception for the staus of this school, and the issue is locked there.
Turkish law does not recognize institutions outside the sphere of state. That is, there is no allowence for Vatican like entities. As far as the Turkish state is concerned, Fener is a Turkish institution. Again, this is certainly not unique to Turkey. Probably that is what is required but again mostly due to historic reasons (I think) it is practically impossible and way too complicated. If it were not the rabid nationalism that surronds Turkey, and mostly emanating from Orthodox lands, it probably would have been far easier to find a middle of the road solution.
Meanwhile there are more churches in Turkey than most of its Chriustian neighbors. A large number of them are active too.
On the other hand can someone tell me how many mosques are there in Erivan? How many in Athens where there were once 150 of them?
Robert, you are obviously Turkish. Listen, Cyprus is a Greek Island for Greeks. Just becuase your Turkish Army invaded the island in 1974 doesn’t give you the right to claim as your ancestoral land. Don’t forget the Turkish blood came from mongolian roots and invaded the beautiful anatolya and Byzantine Empire a Democractic Christian Kingdom.
Just as you have Mongolian roots in you, your blood runs with Armenian, Greek and every other nation that you raped, brutalized and attempted to destroy.
“Just as you have Mongolian roots in you, your blood runs with Armenian, Greek and every other nation that you raped, brutalized and attempted to destroy”
I guess this means you have Mongolian blood in you too, and furthermore, it makes you a self-hating Mongoloid I suppose.
Public lesson1:
Turks are not Mongols, which is a sepeate and distinct ethnicity.
Public lesson2:
Cyprus is not a Greek island for Greeks, since there are so many Turks and others are there, and have been there for a while.
Public lesson3:
Byzantine Empire was never Democractic nor totally Christian or a Kingdom.
Public lesson4:
Turks did not invade the island in 1974, otherwise it would be part of Turkey with only Turkish flag over it.
Public lesson5:
Turks owned the whole of the island for 500 years. They took it from Venetians, who took it from Arabs, who took it from Romans… so, direct your complaints to Italians maybe.
Public lesson6:
Over 25 nations and states, Christian, Muslim and Jewish, were born out of the ashes of the Ottoman Empire. If all they did were rape and pillage and destroy other ethnicities, nations and religions, they surely did the worst possible job in history!
Merry Christmas to all…
To George, Joseph and Zar:
George, where did you come up with the figure of 1.5 million Greeks being killed between 1915-1922? This is the same figure used by dashnak Armenians. So then, Turks now have killed a combined 3 million Greeks and Armenians during this time period? Boy, lying comes so natural to you Greeks and Armenians, doesn’t it!!! After WWI, the allies carved Turkey up, with pieces going to Greece, Britain, Italy, France, etc., leaving only a tiny piece in the center for Turks to call their own. There were no weapons (the allies took everything), barely any food or clothing (Turks were starving and freezing in many areas!). The Sultans had sold out the country and had escaped with the British. There was no government nor any money left post WWI! So, to all you Armenians and Greeks who keep claiming falsely that 3 million Greeks and Armenians were “killed” after the war, who exactly were the army that was doing all of this suppossed killings? It sure couldn’t have been Turks (they didn’t even have an intact army or ammunition, let alone food and proper transportation)! Perhaps it was space aliens (remember what they did in 1947 in Roswell, NM when they shot down that “weather balloon”)! Turks had just gone through two wars, the Balkan wars and WWI! There were few troops left. Everyone was exhausted and hungry. With great effort, Ataturk slowly but surely, began to rally troops and officers for the war for independence. He began to retake what had been divided up. First the French (who later supplied Ataturk with weapons and ammo), followed by the Italians, then the British, and finally finishing up by throwing the Greeks into the sea at the final battle at Izmir. The atrocities committed by both the Greeks and the Armenians against the Turks were incredibly horrific as Ataturk marched into Izmir! Captured Armenians stated how they helped Greeks set fire to the city and massacre innocent Turkish civillians there. These were also witnessed by the crews of the US military ships anchored off the coast, commanded by Admiral Mark Bristol. The rest of your “arguments in this regard pales in comparrison! As for Cyprus, no one still knows how many murdered Turkish-Cypriots still are to be found. The liberation not only was legal (via the Tri-lateral Treaty signed by Greece, Turkey and England), but was long overdue! My oldest sister was just 14 when she was visiting her girlfriend in Famagusta in 1965. The second night that she was there, the Eoka-B came and entered her friend’s home, raped and mutilated my sister beyond recognition, raped and brutalized her girlfriend, and then left her for dead before they left (she was able to describe the event to the police in the hospital before she too died the following day. Of course, the Greek-Cypriot police did nothing)! You speak of the 800 years of suffering by the Greeks and Armenians. The Byzantines were finally defeated with the fall of Constantinople (now Istanbul) in 1453. Ask any Armenian how grateful they were then to no longer having to be abused and taxed to death, or being placed into slavery by the Byzantines! Don’t even get me started on the Crusades, the corrupt Popes who ordered countless atrocities, the Spanish Inquisition, the heiracy trials in Germany and France, etc. The Christians have murdered more people in the name of God than any other group on the planet! Get your facts straight before you start making accusations! Also, who are you to dare mention ethnic cleansing! Look at what Greeks, and especially dashnak Armenians have done to Moslems and non-Moslems alike, from 1880-1992! Armenians alone murdered 518,000 Turks before, during and after WWI (for a total of 2.5 million Turks, Kurds, Laz, Greeks (yes Greeks!), non-dashnak Armenians, Persians, Georgians, Azeris, Tartars, Arabs, Jews killed)! Greeks committed their own little “house of horrors” against Moslems (not only Turks) as well during this period, including from the 1950’s to the 1974 liberation of Cyprus! As for the West helping the Moslems, it’s more like helping themselves to their natural resources (e.g. OIL). Can you say Haliburton? How many genocides were committed by Christians in their quest for imperialism and colonial expansionism? Finally, let’s not forget the dashnak Armenian terrorism during the 1970’s and the 1980’s, which killed and maimed hundreds of innocent people world-wide. Members of ASALA are supplying and training the terrorist group PKK in Lebanon and in Syria as well.
To Joseph, if it were possible for the Serbians to keep things quiet, they would have massacre every single Bosnian Moslem in the area, as well as the Croatians! However, word, and then proof came out and forced the West to intervene in these Balkan regions. The Greeks would love to exterminate the Moslems in Albania! So don’t just focus on Moslems without also looking at yourselves!! I don’t defend fanatical Islamists (in fact, I’d like to see them gone myself). I too see what the fruits of fanatacisim can do (Muslim against Muslim, Christian against Muslim, Christian against Christian, Christian against Native Americans, Christian against Asians, Christian against African, Christian against Latinos, etc.). I’d love to see everyone finally live together in peace and mutual harmony, but it won’t happen because we are known as MAN, and this is simply in our nature, to kill and have wars!
To Zar, you’re simply a racist! Re-read what you wrote. If after reading it, then after reading my post, you can still stand by your comment, then you need to put back on your white sheet robe and pointed KKK hat! For your edification, Cyprus had been conqured by the Ottoman Empire for centuries! Yes, we can lay claim to it also.
To all of you.Latest “breaking News” on this site has it that the great Turkey has embarked on a yet “revised” New strategy,rounding up Kurdish groups heads throughout the country ,put them Heaven knows where -depriving them of constitutional? rights to apply to defense attorneys-Thus showing their unchanging stance,after near a century of what they did to our Armenians similar heads of groups in Istanbulla!!!
It is very interesting to see how U.K.U.S.A and France will react to this new Fiasco!!!!
Like Harut Sassounian now and then hints, they are prone to get trapped in traps they themselves set up for others…
WAIT AND SEE..
Shantagizoum
Shantagizoum,
Let me explain the situation there in terms that even you should be able to understand:
Pretend that you’re living in the southern regions of the US. Pro-seperatist and terrorist-sympathizing Mexican-American politicians have been elected to many local and state positions, as well as a few who have been elected to Congress in Washington. In the entire south, all you can hear are Mexican radio stations (and a few TV stations) which spew pro-seperatist bilge. At first, these messages are coded. Later, they become much more brazen and openly call for a violent revolt and take over. The US National Guard identifies some of their leaders and rounds them up before they can incurr and coordinate more attacks against US peoples. Mexican terrorist groups, demanding that the US give up their entire southern lands, enter nightly accross the border and kill your civillians (including your friends and neighbors), soldiers, police, while planting and detonating bombs in major shopping centers in New York, LA, Chicago, etc. Ultimately, the death toll over the past decade has now risen to over 30,000! The US has sent reprisal attacks on discovered Mexican terrorist camps accross the border in Mexico. Now, both Mexico and the US are predominately Christian nations. However, the US discovers that many of these Mexican terrorists are being trained and supplied in the southern regions of Mexico by terrorist factions from Germany, Asia and South Africa. The attacks continue as more Americans are being murdered by these terrorists. Finally, you (the US) get a break. You learn were the leader of this terrorist group is. He has been located in Chile. Another country’s anti-terrorist units have just captured him. The US sends troops to bring him back to the US for trial. A panicked Mexican terrorist group, now leaderless, brokers a cease fire with the US. In exchange for a prolonged cease fire and the chance to start negotiation talks, the US agrees not to seek the death penalty on their captured leader. A year, and then two pass in relative peace and quiet. The US refuses the demands of Mexico to surrender all of its southern regions (from CA to TX). Mexico states that these were their ancestorial lands. Now tensions begin to mount once again. The pro-terrorist Mexican-American politicians in the US are instigating talks for mass rebellion against Americans. They refuse to speak English and will only communicate in Spanish. Finally, after more incurrsions and more killings, followed by more US reprisal attacks, the American people have had enough! The President of the US (e.g. Obama) realizes that he must take action now, beyond just simple reprisal attacks. Knowing through intelligence reports that many of the Mexican-American politicians in the US are behind these new renewed attacks in varying capacities, the President does the only thing left for him to do to prevent further killings. He institutes a limited regional martial law, citing that these politicians are responsible in the coordination of these attacks. He orders them to be arrested and under military edict, held indefinately. Legal counsel is denied (can’t take any chances of these instigators to be set free on any technicalities). The Mexican-Americans in the south demonstrate. The world press/media decends like vultures into the region. After interviewing only the Mexican-Americans, and not even bothering to interview one single American, they paint a very different, one-sided biased picture of what’s occurring, very far from the real truth. America’s enemies (those that have been jealous and envious for decades), those that would love to destabilize America and have it fall apart, run banner headlines of “Breaking News”, etc. Whatever it takes to help make the US look bad, without having the American people describe what had really been going on for years, they are and will continue to do.
Now can you understand? I could just have easily used other examples (Armenia and Georgia, the US and Canada, the US and the UK, etc.). So, before you start having an estatic orgasm regarding a situation that you know nothing about, and reading biased, one-sided reports in the media, stop for just a moment and ask yourself…Is there another side to this story? You may surprise yourself as to what you may very well discover!
The comparison ,rather a very futile one.Ottoman Turkey´s attitude towards its harshly,nay brutally subdued Armenian subjects (they called us “rayas”) on latter´s Millenia old Habitat is well known the world over and quite accurately registered in mnay a histoy document/book.
As to Armenians´quest for Liberation from imposed yolk on them for 600 years a God Given Right!!!
You wish to have an example(s) and that very far away ?
First one in Westernmost Europe:-North African Moorish Khaliphates had invaded-conquered what is now known as Spain.Pretty much like the seljuk-mogul turkish tribes from Central Asia had entered Western Armenia and conquered it.Before I go any further, what trasnpired then in this case, a note:- These North >African moors left architectural marvels in Spain.Whereas in the case of the seljuk-mogul turkish tribes invading Armenia did the OPPOSITE,i.e., ruined tore down the Armenian Monasteries,churches(making certain that a few showcase ones were left intact)witness Aghtamar in Lake Van(an 11 centuries old Monastery, built by Armenian King)so that then they would show to the world that they had not done any harm to a close to one thousand such..
At first they did the re-opening of said Monastery viz.Aghtamar without putting back on top the Christianity´s symbol the cross.Instead they hung a very long Canvas top to bottom,(for int´l T.V.correspondents to video it) A huge portgrait of Mustafa Ataturk,founder of present r.of Turkey.Also, they have preserved a very small village on the Mediterraneancoast called “Vagef” in their language,leaving a few “remnants”(Armenians) there ,so as when Your like tourists go there they will be convinced that Ottoman turks “never” touched their “raya” Armenians..O.K. so far?
Now git a load of the following:-A spanish princess(remembger still under occupation of invadors) secretly organized the provincial Princes, got armed and drove the invadors OUT!!!
Not so,the case in far flung corner of Eastermost Europe,the Caucasus and adjacent Western Armenia.Ottoman turks did not allow their “ermeni rayas”,i.e. Armenian coolies or slaves to even carry “Zmelis” paper cutting knives..
The very few arms smuggled into Western Armenia that here and there helped Armenian Partisans”fedayees” this latter dubbed word by the invador turks on them to wage a fruitless strife to rid them of the invadors.What is more, Ottoman Turkey having been(as imn the Spanish cas)driven out of the Balkans ,including Greece,concentrated all its might to the East, viz. Western Armenia (dubbing same as Anatolia) .The WWI having been near extinguished to the West, they viz .,the turks well furbished by arms caches of the British,especially in Kars Province,handed over to thme ,instead of the faithfull ,albeit small Armenian ally,then attacked newly independent Armenia in the East Provinces of it.On the other side the Red Army was fast closing in,so Armenia decided to give in to the latter instead of yet another time submitting itself to the already well known blood-thirsty turks…
Oh ,I nearly forgot,second example:-The case of the emancipation from British rule in further ,oceans away ..what is now known the U.S.A.This I don´t believe I have to go over with you.The people stood up and said “give me Liberty or death” .I do trust now you follow what is happening again on Asia minor, where according to statistics some 20 million kurds live(oh by the by..untill very recently dubbed as “mountain turks” by great Turkey..
Thence, if you wish to make comparisons ,have above in view.
Shanta Efendi,
Maybe you should listen to an expert on this matter, a source who can hardly be objectionable even to you folks, and then re-consider your poor analogies. Here is a summary of what the first prime minister of Independent Republic of Armenina, Kacthaznouni, said in his manifesto presented at the Dashnak congress in Bucharest in 1923.
Katchaznouni particularly states that he has come to his conclusions after a grave thinking process. The conclusions he has reached are not the result of superficiality or lack of will-power. He knows he will infuriate many. He calls on the delegates of the Dashnagzoutiun Conference to listen to him patiently, with no prejudice. As he is determining the boundaries of his report, he explains that he will examine the period extending from World War I to the Lausanne Conference, dividing it into certain phases from the point of view of the Armenian question and will focus on the role Dashnagzoutiun has played in this process.
The first Prime Minister of the Dashnagzoution Government makes the following observations:
— It was a mistake to establish the volunteer units.
— They were unconditionally allied with Russia.
— They had not taken into consideration the balance of power which was in Turkey’s favour.
— The decision of the deportation of Armenians was a rightful measure taken by Turks to serve their purpose.
— Turkey had acted with an instinct of self-defence.
— The British occupation once more aroused the hopes of the Dashnags.
— What they established in Armenia was a Dashnag dictatorship.
— They had acted in pursuit of the imperialist demand,”From Sea to Sea” and had been provoked with this.
— They massacred the Muslim population.
— The Armenian terrorist acts were directed at winning over the Western public opinion.
— The fault was not to be found outside the Dashnagzoutiun Party.
— The Dashnagzoutiun Party had nothing else to do but commit suicide.
Yes, all these observartions were made by Katchaznouni, the first Prime Minister of Armenia and the founder of the Dashnagzoutiun Party.
Katchaznouni considers the essence of the Turkish-Armenian relations during the period of 1914-23 as a state of war. According to Katchaznouni’s evaluations, this war was actually between Turkey and the great imperialist powers. Katchaznouni does not make any evaluations that hold Turkey responsible, for he considers the Dashnags and their Armenian followers as one side of the war and Turkey as the other side. He concludes that in the face of Turkish victory, the Dashnagzoutiun Party has nothing else to do but dissolve itself.
Either this man who witnessed and lived through it all was blatantly lying, or you are. Truth can not be in the middle this time, and ignorance is no excuse.
Shantagizoum,
Do you have a problem in reading comprehension? Please read your original post, then re-read my response post citing the “Mexican” example, then re-read the post that you just submitted. Do you NOW see the problem with your new post?
Now, don’t even get me started on dashnak Armenians by your ramblings of “evil” Turks (if we were as evil as you dashnaks have shamelessly, constantly and incorrectly tried to portray us throughout history, then why are there so many positive comments and compliments from some of the greatest minds and leaders in the world (Voltaire, Napoleon Bonaparte (“If the Earth were a single state, Istanbul would be its capitol!”), J. F. Kenndy, Mozart, Beethoven, Eisenhower, Macarthur, just to name a few)? How many operas and musical compositions did Mozart or Beethoven write in honor of, and as a tribute to, Armenians?)! I could litereally write at least a volume about dashnak Armenians in this site alone! Believe me, you and your dashnak friends wouldn’t like it, since I could provide reams of proof (quotes, books, photos, documents, evidence of obvious dashnak Armenian forgeries (including several original pictures which were shamelessly altered using MS photoshop…yes, we have the originals to show the dastardly deed!)) which clearly show the 100-year old con job against the Christian nations of the world, just so you could get (and continue to receive) handouts in the form of foreign aid, and also to get these nations to do your dirty work for you. History proves that you dashnaks are certainly in no position to even make any kind of deragatory comments about us! This will be brought forth even further when the independent historical commission, written into the protocol agreements, are finished with their investigations of all of the archives (BTW, when exactly will the Armenian archives in Yerevan and Boston, MA be finally open to the public?)!
Since you started this needless argument, I’ll leave you with quotes from two famous historical figures about Armenians:
“Armenians always were under the rule of different states of the various religions. Therefore, they have turned into cunning and cheating people, who can hide their thoughts, intentions and senses.”
— Alexandre Dumas
“Armenians, you are wild, murderers, villians, cowards and betrayers. You are the “Owl” that devestates our towns and villages. Despite it all, I do not reproach you, because you are Armenians!”
— A.S. Pushkin
Look, I think we can all find quotations or historical personalities that support our particular perspective on these issues. We have to be very careful in characterizing this through a Muslim/Christian eyeglass. Turkey’s repressive policies toward minorities(Armenian,Kurd, Greek,Assyrian,etc) through several regimes(Sultanate, Ittihad and Republic) has had the singular objective of “purifying” Anatolia by ridding itself of all non-Turkiish peoples and cultures. The history has a clear trend. The method change….. isolated massacres, pre-meditated genocide, land grabbing,
cultural genocide and haraassment. Wha tkind of a society has a legal code such as 301. Not one
that encourages any type of cultural diversity.The Turkish presence in Anatolia is relatively recentand certainly much later than the historic presence of Greeks in northern and western Anatolia and the Armenians in eastern Anatolia. Forbidding the Kurds to teach their language and culture, the genocide is taboo, the Assyrians, the Pontic Greeks, the suffocation of the ancient Orthodox and Armenian Apostolic presence. Enough of debating the facts!!!! We get the point.Turkey
wants a homogeneous society in Anatolia. It’s what Abdul Hamid,Talaat and Kemal had in common.
Successive Turkish governments may deny it, but the victims understand it. An Armenian diaspora, which the Turkish government considers a pain in the neck,was created as a result of this policy. Interesting irony!!!!
As Armenians,we need to be responsible citizens of this world and promote an end to oppression. We need to be focal about Darfur,Bosnia and the Kurds. It doesn’t matter if the vistims are Christians, Muslims or whatever…. it’s evil and we need to always promote the truth and tolerance.
One thing I think the Turkish government is realizing, however, the truth will always prevail and the quest for justice will not be silenced. We all anticipate the beginning of a new era in Turkish/Armenian relations. What’s holding it up? Like in mostthings, it’s not the common folks. It’s
hard to move on, when there’s a denier in our midst. The Turkish government needs to acknowledge the crimes of its predecessors and open a new era. It will set them free!!!! This is our prayer.
Hardly worth to comment upon both of your posts,Robert(reminds me of Robert College in Istanbulla)and Murat .Since it seems even right here you are twisting the whole thing around.And I am not writing about the historical facts.YOU ROBERT commenced it all and you write or Murat rather write that I did. I did no such thing.I only merely quoted the international media w/rgd to recent Turkish repressions on Kurds, for you two -probably as yet- “mountain turks”,that was in my FIRST POST.Just re read it please,right on top!!
Then your diatribes flowed in… easy please easy.We are neighbours now and have just recently signed a protocol so as your government will have diplomatic relations with r.of Armenia.Lift the barriers(shut frontiers) and begin civil relations reciprocally!!!!!
Armenia is all for it.Good neighbourly relations,why not .Just as we have with all other nations nearby or further away.Change is in the air,your government is by and by softening up,albeit in yet in the old style,”Yavash-yavash”..Just follow at least this old trend please…no need to get all burnt up! As to my being a Dashnag, you err tremendously, I am non-partisan,though I respect all(unlike as yet your government´stance) all political `parties,whether left or right,say like in France..O.K.
You must maintain calm when discussing political issues. Sometimes even be ready for compromises. You see, main world powers as well follow said fashion.You want a few examples?
Well then for you, a bit later,as I am to attend to other matters.
Shant (Efendi)? O.K. if that pleases you.
Either Shant Efendi began New Year’s celebrations early, or he is shell shocked when confronted with a bit of reality.
He made a whole bunch of claims, and all easily proven false, and now he has nothing to say.
He seems to think this is a political discussion. He thinks others must compromise when he claims the world is flat!
Stepan, I feel almost guilty as you make it so easy:
“Look, I think we can all find quotations or historical personalities that support our particular perspective on these issues. ”
I did not give a quote. That was the history of WWI events from the Armenian point of view.
” Turkey’s repressive policies toward minorities(Armenian,Kurd, Greek,Assyrian,etc) through several regimes(Sultanate, Ittihad and Republic) has had the singular objective of “purifying” Anatolia by ridding itself of all non-Turkiish peoples and cultures. The history has a clear trend. cultural genocide and haraassment. ”
One: Turkey and Ottoman Empire are not one and same (high school stuff!) Two: Historians have always characterized Ottoman rule as very tolerant of all races and religions. It was an empire composed of numerous millets. It gave birth to over two dozen nations, of all religions. How wrong can you be?
“Wha tkind of a society has a legal code such as 301. Not one”
In fact, I do not know of any state that does not have some kind of protection against national or religious symbols. Have you actually read 301, do you even know what it is?
“Turkey wants a homogeneous society in Anatolia. “
To some degree true, but so do almost all nations I know of, especially Armenia. That is why they are called nation states.
“It’s what Abdul Hamid,Talaat and Kemal had in common.”
Abdulhamit was NOT a nationalist, just the opposite. Jeezzz.
“As Armenians,we need to be responsible citizens of this world and promote an end to oppression. We need to be focal about Darfur,Bosnia and the Kurds.”
Such loving thoughts. How about starting in your own backyard: Karabag and Chechneya?
“it’s evil and we need to always promote the truth and tolerance.”
Have you ever looked at what you and other have said here at all?
Murat is laugh out loud funny! Is this a Turkish History lesson? The same Turkey that doesn’t allow you to speak the truth about history under Penal Code 301.
Lets be honest here, there was no such thing as “Turkey” until after the Ottomon Empire failed with a well deserved bad and dark history…They then had to contrive a new image, new name, new history after 1920. Turkeys are in the Buzzard family which are part of the Vulture family, one of the ugliest, dirtiest birds around.
Greece is an ancient empire with roots far deeper than Turkey, they are the first and TRUE inhabitants of Cyprus and always will be.
Jewish, Moslem, Christians, etc out of Turkey are you stupid or just crazy?
Judiasm was the prevalant religion from which Moslem and Christianity was branched off of, in the kingdom of Canaan.
Quit trying to re write history or relgion to suit your pathetic history of killing.
And yes, some Armenian do have mongoloian blood because of the rapes and harems you forced our young women into. That is the woman that didn’t kill themselves before they would allow the filth of your barbarian hands on them.
“Armenians are murderers because some tried to defend themselves”
Today there are over 70 million Turks, barely 10 million Armenians worldwide (3 million Armenians live in Armenia) in 1915 it was about 15 million Ottomans and 3 million Armenians. Hardly a match for the Mongolian Tribes from Mongolia,
So are the Kurds, Assyrians, Greeks, Balkans, Europeans, Israeli, Egyptians, etc., all Barbarian Murderers because they defended themselves against Ottomans/Turks?
So because we didn’t want to be under the Yoke of the Ottoman, lose our culture, religion our history we are the bad guys? You would have a hard time convincing the world of this, every other country has declared the Armenian Genocide as truthful, 48 states in the USA have openly declared this.
Just because Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Kryzgstan, Ubekistan are all predominately Turkish speaking doesn’t mean that Armenia or Iran or Iraq or lebanon, or Syria (all nations that the Ottomons tried to put under their Yoke) have to be oppressed by a bunch of barbarians.
Murad everything from the Turks is stolen becuase it is a contrived ethnicity. Even your name Murad is from Arabic roots which means “desired”
You are all wrong the Assyrians ruled Cyprus first , then their Greek brothers came later.
I am part of the Middle Eastern Studies at Harvard. Murad spare us all the Turkish History Lesson, everyone knows that your history lessons are all censored by the Turkish government.
read this simple outline here and note that the Ottomans didn’t come till much later.
Look under Modern History.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Cyprus
Murat, you must have gotten an A for effort on the debating team, but I hardly think your team ever won any matches. I am tempted to not respond, but why not…..
1. Your unverified quotes from the Armenian perspective are , at best, one view… certainly not
a “national position”.
2. Please don’t play word games. If Ottoman Empire wasn’t Turkish dominated then we don’t a real
basis for meaningfuldialogue. We all understand the Ottoman term verses the Republic of 1923,
but the point of Ottoman being viewed as a “Turkish Empire” is generally accepted. Besides, if it’s
not Turkish, then we have been pointing the finger all these years at the wrong guys. You are
correct that the early years of the Ottoman millet model was viewed as enlightened. My
comments are pertaining to the late 19th and early 20th century corrupt and murderous
empire. By the 1870’s it was a clear spiral and they took it out on the minorities. Quite a
change from the 15th -18th century.
3. The importance of 301 is how it is applied toTurkey’s citizens and the defensive zeal that
created the need. No modern nation can justify a law that limits free speech. Indefensible.
4. What they have in common is the oppression their OWN CITIZENS. How vile when government
was created to protect its citizens. I feel the same way when freedom is restricted in Armenia.
5. I am sure you have become quite educated on our position on Karabagh. Simply stated,
Karabagh has been Armenian for centuries, Stalin ceded it to weaken both nations(as he did in
the Baltic states)and the liberation prevented a second genocide.
6. We have made mistakes as a people and I am certain have caused pain for others. Conflict is an
ugly process for all. Murat, my friend, you are dealing with a people that understand
oppression and survival very well. We have been loking at the wrong end of the knife for a long
time. For the Turks to deny the legitimacy fo the Armenians in eastern Anatolia and the Ararat
plains is not only criminal, but insulting to a people experienced the truth through suffering.
I hope that one day we can find a way to reconcile, but reconciliation has toalways be based on
the truth.
Stepan, that is what we say “cevir kazi yanmasin!”
Let me ask you something, does the fact that it is “illegal” to contradict the Armenian genocide myth in some countries bother you as much as 301?
I am really touched that so many Armenians are so concerned with freedoms in Turkey. Tears and all…
After all, Turkey is the place where conferences on this topic are held and no one has been jailed. Harassed, yes, but punished or jailed, no.
Poor Zar, do you know what Zar means? Possibly not. Do you know Murat (not Murad!) is a very common Armenian name also? Are they all thiefs too? Why do some people shout their ignorance and bigotry?
Hye, actually pity Murat… for he is a product of the Turkish leaderships who have lied, yes lied, to their own Turkish citizens… Lied about the history of the Turks, lied about the Turkish Genocide of the Armenians. These leaderships have agreed to agreements/didn’t sign agreements, even more,
change the agreements after agreeing – to suit the Turks, only. Like playing a game of football or basketball and in the middle of the game – change the rules, to suit the Turk, of course! After hundreds of years Turks have not joined the civilized nations of the world. Bullying… Turk’s style.
Manooshag
Murat, your logic escapes me. Perhaps that is why we are where we are. One group murdered and expelled… the other is a self-induced denial. Incredible that you see to believe that harassment is some type of “gold star” of good behavior. The conferences are a breath of fresh air, I’m not sure a denialist really supports the idea. The tolerence of such things by the establishment
is based on its public relations value. I’m probably giving too much credit by referring to tolerence.They are really a reflection of some dedicated and courageous people that I see as the future of Turkey.You should look at genocide recognition as an opportunity to lift the cloud hovering over your culture and a real chance to be respected. Your choice, your opportunity… but either way the truth will prevail.The trend is clear.
Uh, why was my post no posted? There was nothing in there to hurt anyone (as compared to what is being posted by some). That action was really low and unprofessional! I put a lot of thought, time and sincerity into writing that post. Tell me, did you feel during the “moderation” period for my post that it came too close to the truth that you couldn’t take a chance on other dashnaks being exposed to reality and the truth itself? For your edification, this is known as censorship. This was a very cowardly act on your parts! But then again, what more can be expected from dashnak Armenians…you’ve been doing this sort of thing for the last century! Why should you change now? You know, I was actually beginning to believe that this was a decent and fair site, unlike the numerous other dashnak Armenian sites that won’t ever allow a post from anyone other than an Armenian. Well, you succeeded in proving me wrong. This site is no different, and you are all still nothing but cowards! If you have any balls, you’ll post this. Otherwise, you just keep proving over and over what the world has come to know you dashnak Armenians as…COWARDS!! I shall check back again tomorrow. As for your pathetic actions, all that can be said is…SAD!
Finally, elements of the truth are starting to trickle their way through the highly censored Turkish state. It will take a long tome though before the brainwashed Turks start discovering the truth, if that ever happens……………
In a daring statement, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan admitted for the first time that the expulsion from Turkey of tens of thousands of ethnic Greeks in the last century was a “fascist” act, Reuters reported.
Some commentators viewed Erdogan’s remarks as a reference to the expulsion of 1.5 million ethnic Greeks from Turkey to Greece in 1923. The large-scale population exchange between the two countries also included the transfer of more than 500,000 ethnic Turks from Greece to Turkey.
Other observers thought that Erdogan was referring to the pillaging of thousands of Greek shops and houses by Turkish mobs in Istanbul on Sept. 6-7, 1955, following the spread of false reports that Ataturk’s house in Thessaloniki, Greece had been burned down.
Beyond the expulsion of Greeks, Erdogan made an indirect reference to the tragic fate of other ethnic groups, such as Armenians, in Turkey. “For years, those of different identities have been kicked out of our country. … This was not done with common sense. This was done with a fascist approach,” Erdogan said on May 23, during the annual congress of the Justice and Development Party, held in the western province of Duzce.
“For many years,” Erdogan continued, “various facts took place in this country to the detriment of ethnic minorities who lived here. They were ethnically cleansed because they had a different ethnic cultural identity. The time has arrived for us to question ourselves about why this happened and what we have learned from all of this. There has been no analysis of this right up until now. In reality, this behavior is the result of a fascist conception. We have also fallen into this grave error.”
The Turkish prime minister’s candid remarks were harshly criticized by opposition parties. Onur Oymen, vice president of the main opposition Republican People’s Party (CHP), said that associating Turkey’s history with terms like fascism based on hearsay was not right. He also said that no Turkish citizen had ever been expelled because of his or her ethnic background. Oktay Vural of the opposition MHP party added: “Erdogan’s words are an insult to the Turkish nation.”
In sharp contrast, liberal Turkish commentators praised Erdogan for his conciliatory remarks: “For the first time you have a prime minister who wants to admit that mistakes were made in the treatment of religious minorities. This is historic,” wrote journalist Sami Kohen in Milliyet. “But whether this rhetoric will be followed with deeds remains to be seen.”
Hurriyet Daily News added: “Erdogan’s speech was historic; it was the first time that a high official accepted there have been unlawful and undemocratic practices against minorities in the past. This sentiment was echoed by Professor Halil Berktay in Vatan newspaper: ‘That statement was the most courageous thing ever said by Erdogan.’ Baskin Oran, another academic well-known for his liberal views, told Star newspaper that he was ‘proud of a prime minister who denounces ethnic and religious cleansing.’”
CNN-Turk news director Ridvan Akar was more skeptical about Erdogan’s true intentions. He wrote in Vatan: “Minority rights as well as those of religious foundations are a structural problem within the Turkish state. Of course, Erdogan has taken a step forward with this declaration. But the sincerity of his words will depend on facts to back them up, such as the restitution of rights to those who have been expelled, the return of confiscated properties, or compensation.”
The prime minister’s statement is encouraging, if it is an indication that Turkey’s leaders have finally decided to face the ugly chapters of their country’s past.
However, it would be wrong to draw overly optimistic conclusions from this single statement. Erdogan has made similar comments about the Kurds in Turkey, only to have their hopes dashed by taking unexpected repressive measures against them.
The fact is that Erdogan is not the master of his political domain. The “fascists” he attacks are not buried in an Ottoman historical grave, but are alive and well in Turkish society and occupy the highest echelons of the military and judiciary.
Yet, Erdogan is politically shrewd enough to realize that his condemnation of fascism will resonate at home and in the West, and win him accolades and support against his powerful domestic opponents.
Erdogan’s battle against the ghosts of the Turkish past is in fact a fight for his political survival against those in today’s Turkey who view him and his Islamic party with deep suspicion, and are determined to counter his every move, ultimately seeking his downfall from power.
Stepan,
My logic and principle is simple I thought. Respect for truth, simple and naked truth. I find your viewpoint shifting on the other hand and conflicting often.
While you acknowledge that topic of tehcir/genocide is freely discussed from all points of view in Turkey for a while now, then you lement on the lack of all such freedoms and how it is illegal to even mention it. Which is true?
An open discussion is just that, a discussion, and does not mean wholesale acceptance of your viewpoints and myths. If the facts were to support your view, then discussion would have ended decades ago.
More importantly where is the Armenian Akcam?
In this respect, Republic of Turkey has morally much more urgent issues and sins to address rather then sorting out the ghosts of the Ottoman past. Most specifically, the treatment of its Greek minorities during 50s for example. That is a true stain on the “vicdan” of the current regime and I am hoping Erdogan finds the support and strength to make some meaningful gestures to erase the shame of savagely expelling some of its valued citizens in a fit of nationalistic paranoia.
I also hope that in some future, the Christian culture once again flourishes in the lands that it was born.
That does not mean I turn a blind eye to fabrications, falsehoods, blood feud and ethnic hatred (disguised as search for justice and truth) aimed at Turkey.
Turkish society has come a long way exposing its skeletons in the closet. It is done not for its propaganda value as some sceptics claim, but it is a natural occurence as a result of gained national confidence and dissolution of the state of mind entrenched mostly as a result of the traumas of Balkan-WWI-Independece Wars. What have Armenians done?
you know everybody, if you have a perspective on this, writing in this narrow vocabulary where only this small group sees what you have to say denies a larger audience of the matter, in other words lots of good stuff is seen here but if it were written in letters to the editors of your local newspapers also it would very likely be seen by many more than the group that relates online…this is good but write letters to the editor and keep writing them to tell your story, make noise like the Jews do if you want to accomplish anything…