English
Հայերէն
Astarjian: Our Friends, Our Foes: The Kurds
The Armenian Weekly
January 2010 Magazine
The inheritance of my generation of Armenians is the legacy of our parents and grandparents who survived the genocide, especially the atrocities committed by the Kurds. Even after almost a century, talking to the post-genocide Armenians about the Kurds generates anger, hatred, belittlement, and at best indifference. However, today’s realities mandate a cool, close look at these people who share land with us in southeastern Turkey, which we call Western Armenia and they call Northern Kurdistan. So are they our friends or foes, or both?
Kurdish women demonstrating. (Photo by Mujgan Arpat)
The stories passed on to us speak of the criminal, at least hostile, acts perpetrated against Armenians throughout the centuries, especially in the late 19th century by Kurdish tribes leading to the Great Genocide of 1915.
Who are these people who have historically influenced our way of life, threatened our existence, and continue to shape our future?
Ethnic jokes and anecdotes portray the Kurd as an ignorant group of nomads, who are Muslims (just barely so, according to the Turks, who consider the Kurds Muslim only when compared to the giavour (the infidel): Giavoura bakarak Kurd Musluman).
Historic accounts document their profile as tribes who, for the last five centuries, have survived in Anatolia through extortion, robbery, individual killings, mass killings, rape, kidnapping, and in general, by collaborating with the Ottoman authorities to oppress the Armenian nation and the other Christian minorities.
So, who are the Kurds? What is their genealogical origin? Where did they come from?
All that really matters not! What matters is that they have lived with us for 4,000 years and have sometimes been our friends, often our foes, not to say enemies. Our histories have intermingled; we have allied ourselves with the Ottomans against them, they have done the same against us, and at times we have joined forces with them against the Ottoman government. An example: the 1845 armed uprising of Prince Badrkhan, in a coalition with the Armenians, against the Sultan. Prince Badrkhan believed that “The Armenians and the Kurds are Arians, belonging to the same race. One tribe accepted Islam and the other remained Christian.” He even allowed intermarriage, though it is doubtful that any Armenian man married a Kurdish girl.
I met his great grandson Saif Badrkhan, who lives in California. He’s a highly educated decent human being who even gave a brief speech in one of the April 24 gatherings in LA condemning the genocide. He arranged for me to deliver speeches in Kurdish American conferences in California and Maryland. I did! The meetings were crowded by people, whose appearance and existence alone changed my view of the Kurds. Perhaps it is not an exaggeration to say that whomever I met had a Ph.D. or master’s degree in some scientific or business field. Polite mannerisms reflected civility during the official speeches, and during dinners and social hours. Ladies, graceful in their charm and traditional Kurdish gowns, mingled with men and danced shoulder to shoulder.
I was given a seat in the front row. There was an empty chair to my left; I thought it might have been planted there deliberately, because Kurds, all from Turkey, came to shake my hand, and sit on that chair to share thoughts and “secrets” with the “representative of the Armenian people,” which I was not, nor claimed to be. A few of them posed a rhetorical question: “Why are the Kurds Muslims? What have we gained by being Muslims?” At least a dozen or so told me—on the promise of anonymity—that their grandmother is Armenian. I was not shocked. A few years later I heard the Kurdish explanation of kidnapping our girls, which I will discuss later.
The theme of these meetings was inarguably political and inarguably nationalistic and designed to advance the cause of a “United, Free Kurdistan.” It was an eye opener! For, the issue was not limited to Iraqi Kurdistan, the liberation of the Kurds from the atrocities of Saddam Hussein, but to Pan Kurdism and the establishment of a united, free, and sovereign Kurdistan expanding from the Araratian planes in present-day Turkey to Kirkuk and Mandali, deep into Iraq. Needless to say, it includes the six Armenian vilayets, the jewel of which was Van.
I said my word, loud and clear, from the podium, the gist of which was: Yes, we have the same cause. Yes, we have a common enemy. Yes, there should be an alliance between us. But each group has its own interests and rights, for which they must struggle. There should be no dispute between our two nations. We are partners in destiny. Our rights were spelled out, in detail, in the provisions of the Sevres Treaty, which was then refined and mapped by U.S. President Woodrow Wilson. It is to our advantage, and to the detriment of Turkey, to stick to this map and the provisions in the Sevres Treaty.
I got standing ovations all three times, but not necessarily as an endorsement of my expressed ideas. They were, I believe, happy for my having exposed Turkey for what it is: an occupier, an oppressor of other nations, and a violator of human rights.
In one of the meetings, I met Nijyar H. Shemdin (Agha) the son of Hajji Shemdin Agha of Zakho, Iraq. My uncle, Dr. Krikor Astarjian, was one of Shemdin Agha’s close friends and his family’s physician. Through the Agha, and other Aghas whom he canvassed, he was instrumental in tipping the League of Nation’s plebiscite held in the early 1920’s in favor of Iraq. In this plebiscite, the Kurds of Mosul voted not to join Kemal Ataturk’s Turkey, thus joining the newly formed Kingdom of Iraq. We both were happy to find each other and recall the memories of yesteryear.
Events guided me to participate in the festivities of the first anniversary of the incorporation of the Kurdish Parliament in Exile, which was incorporated in the Hague, and which established itself physically in Brussels. Ten European countries had recognized it and/or lent their support to this democratic institution. The parliament was established by Turkey’s Kurdish exiled parliamentarians. They had fled Turkey when other Turkish “deputan” were stripped of their parliamentary immunity and arrested—like Leyla Zana—for supporting the “Kurdish Cause.”
The organizers had elected Yasar (Yashar) Kaya as president of the parliament. I had met him in one of the Kurdish meetings in California, where he also had delivered a speech calling for Kurdish unity. He, together with Zubeyir Aydar, the chair of the Executive Committee (originally representing Siirt in the Turkish Parliament) came to welcome the representative of the Tashnag Party (which I was not). They took me to dinner in an Italian restaurant. I let them initiate the conversation. They apologized for Kurdish tribes’ criminal acts against the Armenians. They said, “These killers were of certain tribes who are doing to us what they did to you: They are killing us, raping our women in front of assembled villagers, they are burning our villages and hamlets, and they are deporting the civilians into internal exile. The difference is that they did not send them to Der Zor. You had the Hamidiya Alaylari, and we have these criminals, the Korujus. They are on Turkish government’s payroll.”
They further developed the conversation to talk about Kurdish kidnapping of our children. They said, “We don’t dispute that, but look at it from our view: We knew that those kids would face a certain death in the desert of Der Zor, so we saved their lives. And we always told them they are Armenians.” They did not say that they converted them to Islam.
They went into the litany of the genocide, expressing profound sympathy to the survivors and their offspring. I listened and listened to this sincere mea culpa, until it became repetitious, at which time I told them what I told the parliament in a televised speech the following day. The gist of my speech was simple: I am not here to demand sympathy or demand apology from the Kurds. I am here to affirm the Armenian nation’s right to some of the land you are living on, and to our adherence to the provisions of the Sevres Treaty. Our relationship with the Kurdish nation is not based on ideology, but on land rights and demands in Western Armenia. Both the Kurdish and Belgian televisions televised the proceedings.
Our relationship with the Kurds is a complex one: (1) We are allies by necessity: The enemy of my enemy is my friend. (2) They look up to us, yet we look down upon them. And we are wrong. The Kurds have advanced in every imaginable field beyond anyone’s imagination, certainly beyond mine. (3) Whether we like it or not, they are our neighbors. We better understand them. (4) Other than Western Armenia, there is, for them, the issue of “Red Kurdistan,” that is, Lachin, Kelbajar, and Fizuli. For us, the case is closed.
So, are the Kurds our friends or foe? Probably both. A smart approach to this seemingly impossible situation will make them, in my opinion, our friends much more than our foes.
(One caveat: Though I kept our leadership fully informed, I had no endorsement nor any kind of support from them. In this endeavor, I was not representing anyone but myself. Others may have had a different impression.)
64 Comments
Ferhat:
I read an article in the Jerusalem Post that said the Christians were very traumatized living in muslim countries. My uncle (a genocide survivor), whose father lived in Egypt, (at the time of the massacres luckily) said they were not nice to the Christians either. You can imagine because of the horrible crimes committed against them in Turkey, they are very traumatized. The article said because of this trauma, they try to please the persecutor. That is interesting; I wonder in what way they really try too hard to please the Turks or muslims. Maybe they can answer that for me; I don’t know. Maybe they should not at all try to please the Turks or muslims. Having said that, also, it is very likely that people like you, being a Kurd, are just as traumatized as they are because you feel bad about what the Kurds and/or Turks did to the Armenians.
Is it possible that some Turks also feel traumatized by what they did to the Armenians. So such tragedies take a toll on everybody. A social psychology course I took discussed the prisoner/jailer problem, if you have heard of that. People will hurt people because they follow orders. Also, once they become the jailer, they act very badly and hurt people in the role they play. The teacher said, however, later a jailer may feel just as traumatized as the victims for hurting them, depending on his conscience I suppose.
I hope you can reconcile with the Armenians. Maybe you will find some friendlier Armenians than these posters to have a dialogue with. It may do both of you some good.
Does this pop psychology do any good?
Hye, and we Armenians, together, the world over are in pursuit of our secured and honest Haiastan.
For we seek only our best interests for the Armenian nation and its needs.
Yet there are some who see Armenia as a source to fill their own pockets – not only in Armenia, but evidently elsewhere – some even from the democracy of the republic of USA – while denying democracy to our brethern in Haiastan.
These Serge cohorts must hate their own peoples, must hate their own Haiastan during its efforts to exist amongst the civilized nations of the world – well deserved.
Yet, probably donate monies to Haiastan, howsomever, they gain all their monies back by their absolute withdrawls from Haiastan – into their own pockets! Ahmot.
“Taking” from our fledgling Haiastan? Thus depriving the citizens of Haiastan who, intellectually, have so much to offer the world… How do you sleep nights?
Manooshag
Dr. Deranian, thank you and I haven’t thought about all the nationalities that you have mentioned above; yet indeed I know that they have all suffered under the Turks’ “yataghan” the sword. Lately I have been thinking about siding with the Kurds, the Greeks and the Assyrians against the Turks for the reasons you have already mentioned above.
Ֆերհադ ջան, դուն նաեւ կարդացա՞ծ ես Վարուժանէն, Պարոնեանէն ու Չարենցէն: Կը գնահատեմ որ թէեւ Քիւրտ պարոն մըն ես եւ սակայն այսքան սէր կը տածես մեր գանցերուն ու գրականութեան: Շնորհակալ եմ որ կը կարդաս ու լաւ կը գնահատես մեզ ու մեր հոյակապ գանձերուն:
Dear Ferhat, I am very saddened that in this day and age the Turkish belligerent government is harrassing you constantly and are not leaving you to live freely and without fright. It is totally inexcusable and terrible for civilians, your children, yourself and your entire family and your people to be in that frightful conditions. I can only say that I am sorry for you people, but take heart and simply put your heads together and work for your freedom and peace of mind.
Nairian, thanks for thenkind words
Some of the people who post here have nothing else to do but damage the bonds between Armenians, Kurds and Jews. This is a treacherous act on the part of some here. Why? What they are doing is shooting themselves and others at the same time. turks are happy seeing Aramazds attacks on Kurds. It is sad, but Aramazd is Not Armenia, nor he represents 9 million Armenians worldwide. I will assume that a “recent incident with Kurds” forces him to vent hatred towards us. Aramazd, we are not here discussing personal issues that you or I have had with Kurds or Armenians. We are discussing serious matter, matters that will spell “death of a nation” if we are not united. If some Kurd hurt you or a member of your family, do not hold the whole Kurdish people responsible for the sins of a few.
Armenians treated me with respect, love and inclusion, but for Aramazd, I strongly believe that some recent occurances is forcing him to vent anger.
No matter what, the struggle against the Islamist terrorist state of turkey will continue. We have had thousands of Aramazds who tried to sabotage our progress, they are nothing but dust in the wind, they definitely do not decide our future, and will eventually be marginalized and forgotten.
Kurds and Armenians had their share of traitors and turncoats who worked and are still working on behalf of the Islamic terrorist Turkey. Sadly, they are on the wrong side of the fence, and they will be dealt with severly when judgement day comes on.
I read the Musa Daghs short history, and was surprised to see that in a population of about 5,000 Musa dagh Armenians, there were traitors working for the Turks. We too have/had our turncoats and traitors. We have maybe about 100,000 Kurds on payroll of the Turkish government, they all one day will stand in front of the Kurdish people.
To Ferhat,
I am glad that you are not discouraged by this or that individual whether they be Armenian, Kurd, Turk or whomever. Your appreciation and devotion of the Armenian culture are a testimony to the hope of the human race, that no matter what our nationality, we can work together for a better planet.
This is to Ferhat and Hamma and Deranian and the “Ferhat-jan” group and my other well-wishers who have nothing better to do than sit behind that computer all day and look for one more person to kick around (try to, that is). To those who happen to be Armenians I will have to quote one half stanza of a poem I read when I was 8 or 9 years old, that went, “… moracel eq, khamrel en dzer ugheghnere otaraser.” This explains just about everything for those who understand a word or two of their own language. Those who do not understand a word can ask Ferhat for a translation. To Ferhat I affectionately say don’t be such a sourpuss; go read my previous comments, but read them carefully because every word and every sentence was just as carefully written as not to offend your patriotism, and you may see (just MAY see)what Manooshag says, “The Kurds have their own plate and we wish them well” and “Armenians, together, worldwide, trust no one but ourselves!” This, just about sums up everything I have said. One more thing, Ferhat, (incidentally, you beat your chest about how much of an Iranian the Kurds are and how close Kurdish is to Farsi. Ferhat-jan [as some address you], your name is indeed Farsi, but it is written FARHAD, like the character in Ferdowsi’s Rostam and Afrasiab, and it is pronounced ‘far-hawd’ with the accent at the end. The A of ‘far’ as in ‘Arrow’ and AW of ‘hawd’ as in ‘Awed’ pronounced with the voice rising as in ‘about’. So much for etymilogy. Let me get back.), ralax, mah-man! I have had nothing to do with Kurds in my entire life, in fact I wouldn’t know the difference between a Kurd and an Assyrian if they stood next to me for an hour-and-a-half. No, contrary to your imagination (and you are pretty good in that area) I have had no “personal issues that you … have had with Kurds” or “If some Kurd hurt you or a member of your family.” No, Farhad. Firstly, I wouldn’t have let them, and secondly, like yourself I have been an avid reader; all I know comes from what I have read. No one in my family, or my ancestors, or relatives, or friend, or neighbors was ever harmed by Turks or Kurds. How so, you may ask? As you may have surmised (or maybe not) I am from Iran; my ancestors have been there for over 500 years. So, most of your suppositions and arguments and hypotheses and conlcusions for what I say or why I say become moot and empty. I am not addressing this to Hamma because half of the time I have no idea what on earth is he taling about or where he gets his “historical” references. To your admirers I say, “In daghal-doustan ke mibini, magason-and dowre shirini.” Now, you have read 470 books, go translate THAT for them (I’ll give you a clue; it is in Persian). And to you, unker Farhad, when you say “Shame on you if you missed Raffi’s, Siamantos[sic] and many great writers’ books. How many
Armenian History[sic] books have you read?” first of all your comment deserves no answer, and then, if you are getting a bit personal, can you tell me the full names of Raffi or Siamanto, wise-guy? Let me just say that most probably I have forgotten more than you will EVER learn. Why don’t you go read Raffi’s ‘Khachagoghi Hishatakarane’ and The Armenians, by John M. Douglas. And then come back for lesson number three. And what can you say about a major character in Zartonk, if you claim you have read it. If YOU can’t make a comment or observation, then I verily say unto thee, thou art a phoney! No cheating allowed. Can’t ask others. Although I doubt it very much if any of your sympathizers would know.
Incidentally, my father spoke fluent Kurdish and Lori among several other languages (Armenian, Persian, Russian, English, French, German, Arabic, Hindustani, Kurdish, and Lori. Before his death he was trying to learn Spanish). I don’t know how or where did he learn all of that, but he was a wonderful man.
I still say more power to you Ferhat; go get ‘em; them Turks! But don’t mix us in.
Farhat stands at 463 lines.
Aramazd, don’t you think tha you’re acting a little bit childish…for a lawyer?
Grow up, looks like you’ve been hurt recently, or better yet, more than Ferhat, you are enjoying the spotlight here. Listen from a person who is closely related to Christopher Mikaelian. Our leaders past and present always encouraged inter-ethnic dialogue, as long as our issues are addressed. Relax, no need to go on defensive here. My I ask you quite innocently about your age?
Thanks
James Mikaelian M.D.
Hi Doctor Mikaelian, You are really related to our wonderful Krisdapor Mikaelian? Your presence in here is an honor. Thanks for being here with us.
To Aramazd
“In daghal-doustan ke mibini, magason-and dowre shirini.” This is what you wrote. “The trader you see friends, are flies-circling around the sweet”, thank you for the kind words !!!
Your old educations are outdated in this modern days. I am more Nobel Persian than Kurd. The Persian Noble’s came from royal Median family.
Today many people calling themselves Persian, they came from India, Turk and Arabs.
Thanks to modern educations we are learning how to communicate with each others without insulating statements.
We are going forward to learn more and rebuild our nations and rebuild our relationship with other nations.
In the family power struggle during Emperor Darius the Great. We Iranian lost our most educated segment of our society “The Magi- The wise man”. Greek scholars, Jewish scholars and many others tried to destroy our past but thanks to modern technology we are learning and gaining back part of our history and our civilizations. I do not need to quote others for references made up by them. I need to use my brain and read between line the other people wrote for me.
You prove it Mr. Aramazd that what ever the Jewish scholars and Greek scholars wrote are true nothing else but truth. The holy books are not so holy in this modern days. The people are asking about the truth and logical statements.
I will continue to search for truth as long as I am a live. May be my English is not perfect like native but I will get by. I will use editors to rewrite what I write. I write the fact and logical things.
When I say the Jewish scholars are invented the word “Semitics”, I did my research on that, their stories in the holy books is not checking out. The Jewish blood come out to be Kurd according to the DNA test by Jewish people, not the imaginary Semitic people they made up.
Look for my article abut “Abraham” in the future. Modern since are miracle isn’t it Mr. Aramazd
This is to Johnny-come-lately another-doctor James Mikaelian MD. I am 83 years old, but I am a true fighter for the rights of my people. Even though the Armenians of Iran were not directly affected by the massacres, I believe those who murdered our people should first of all be forced to admit their deeds, and then they should suffer with the thought for the rest of their lives. Nor do I expect anything from them. I just want them to suffer. I cannot forgive them lest I betray the ancestors of Jeshmaridian and Deranian and Grikor and Nairian and Harold and your ancestors, Mikaelian, and … and all those who beat their chest for “brotherhood.” You say, “Our leaders past and present always encouraged inter-ethnic dialogue, as long as our issues are addressed.” I am not sure about the first half of your sentence, if indeed ‘our leaders’ [in plural] “encouraged” any “inter-ethnic dialogue.” Unfortunately, they were busy arguing with each other; Ramkavar vs. Hunchak vs. Dashnak vs. … and [with all due respect to your grandpa]I am not sure if their plans, like the bank episode of 1896, helped us in any way. In fact it hurt us tremendously. As my brother-in-law would put it [unrelated to Babken Suni] “if we killed 10 of them, they killed 5000 of us.” His father fought alongside Andranik. Iranians express almost everything in poem format; beat, rhyme and all, and to people like yourself who say, “Listen from a person who is closely related to Christopher [Kristapor] Mikaelian,” etc., they say ‘Giram pedare to boud fazel, As fazle pedar to-ra che hasel?’ [ask Hamma Mirwaisi for a translation, but loosely put it means, 'supposing your father was a learned person; what good comes to you from his wisdom?']. As to your advice, “Relax, no need to go on [the] defensive here,” I wonder what made you think I was being defensive? And no, my dear doctor, I do not need any publicity nor do I enjoy being under the spotlight, nor have I been “hurt recently” as you diagnose [without examination]. Perhaps it would have been a good idea for you to go read quite a volume of comments heretofore made by a good number of people before your claim to fame … and free advice. Let us read first, then express opinion [if asked].
Now to Hamma Mirwaisi. I wish you well in your article about “Abraham.” God willing, I will read it. But I am still at a loss to comprehend where from do you get your facts. I give you a B- for your translation. You missed the true meaning of “daghal-doustan,” although it is difficult, in general, to translate expressions. Well, I’ll make it a B.
Oh, yes, I almost forgot. To PhD David Deranian, and his “University level” lecture, and the Armenian students not knowing the names of cities inhabited by Armenians before the Genocide. Could it be that the attendees had difficulty with your English? I have been to Armenia several times, each time for many months, the longest; eight months, and I have been in close contact with college kids and the University. I was always highly impressed by their knowledge of their own history. Besides, there is an excellent book that I bought in Yerevan (three versions: Armenian, Russian, English) that includes statistical data with maps of all areas [not just "places like Erzerum, Mush, Kharpert, … etc., … filled[sic] with Armenians”]. The book is a serious work and it includes statistical information about the number of people massacred in each town and each area, including geographical maps. I wonder if you had access to this book in preparation for your lecture. They had access, the Armenian students, that is. You see, the book is published in Armenia. Although out of print, it can be found at the Yerevan central library, at the American University library, at the Yerevan University library, in most reputable bookstores, at the underpass book-bazaar of the Yeritasardakan subway station [where I bought mine], and in most home-libraries. Almost all of the families I had the opportunity to visit had a copy. I wonder who were those Armenian college students that were unfamiliar with the topic of your lecture. [If you are really interested, I can give you the title of the book and its publisher.]
Finally to Ferhat I say, no “straight lines,” arches. Go look from inside. As cruel as it may sound, Ferhat, to your “mee miag garogh em neroghutyun khntrem polor ashkharki hayerits” please read my comment, above, for those who killed us. (You have been kind of quiet for the last couple of hours. How come?) Good luck to you, Ferhat, you are a good Kurd and a patriot, but you may have to fight your own battle, by yourself.
OK, folks, this is my last log. I have better things to do than be a good Armenian, and then be lashed out by an ignoramus bunch who do not speak Armenian, who cannot write or read Armenian [hats off to Ferhat], who speak pidgin English, who think if they play golf or put their baseball cap on backward they have “arrived,” or those who have not given up the habit of beating their compatriots to pulp, or those who cannot write two lines properly and grammatically, or those who just talk big but are empty between the ears. Goodbye, folks, the show is over. I made my point. And we can disagree.
To Mr. Aramazd
The conflicts and wars on earth are not new between nations. The best to read stories from many sources then do your analysis in hope to find facts. I took American history in school; the professor said will be nice to read the same history in Russia to find out the truth.
I do not know why some Armenian in Iran is full of hatred toward the Kurds. I read about one Armenian moved back to Armenia from Iran and the Armenian Governments give him job. He forced out the Yazadi Kurds of Armenia, I do not know what authority he has. I understand Shi’a Iran do hate Yazadi Kurds because they think that they are descendent of Yazed bin Mayoaih Arab King who killed Imam Hussein of Shi’a.
I immigrated to the USA; American friend of mine helped me to learn English. At the time the USA people did not know much about Kurds. He found two books with word Kurds in it. I read it, it was written by person called himself Nobel Persian and said he has only one daughter. He wrote and advised the American people, if you are traveling in Iran do not go to western Iran because there are people there we call them Kurds. They are thieves and murderous, they might hurt you.
I said why these Persian writing horal things like that. He is not going back to Iran. According to our peoples believes then he do not have son because we not count for women to take our place when we die in our society. Why you have to be so means when you know soon you will die. Why some people are not making some thing good instead of bad.
So Mr. Aramazd you and that Armenian who hurt Yazadi community in Armenia are under influence of the affect from the hatred of those kinds of people. The people should know the roots of hatred by that kind of Persian are coming from the Shi’a Islam. Ṣalāḥ ad-Dīn Yūsuf ibn Ayyūbi was the leader of Muslim during the First Crusade war. He forced Shi’a to become Sunni Islam in Egypt and other Arab countries when he was running part of the Islamic world.
I am not from Turkey, I grow up in Iraq and Iran we never hurt Armenian’s but I do understand what happened to Armenian people in Turkey. The Turks used Kurdish tribal man to fight Armenian people. Those kinds of Kurds are fighting Kurds now in Turkey. I do not blame the entire Armenian people because you and that Armenian from Iran hurt group of our people. And you should not blame the Kurdish nations for those who are for sale to hurt others.
The Kurdish nations in Turkey are facing genocide by Turks of Turkey. Just like what they did to the Armenian in the past. We are trying to get united with people who have the same background to defend on our right. The Kurdish leader went to Greek for that reason. But Greek Governments betrayed him, We Kurds not blaming the entire Greek nations.
I am writing book to make peace between the people in the region. I am calling for the Economic Union for the people from Pakistan to Turkey and from Kurdistan to former Soviet Union countries including Russian and part of east Europe. I am calling for the independent for each nations and sub-nations within that geographical Ares. I hope the Turks will be civilized by then.
I call on you and other people like you and me to help establish honorable peace instead of hatred. I do not hate Turks, I hate their actions.
The Armenian people with excellent educations one of them were my professor in school. They can help in the USA to balance godless lobbyist (most of them unfortunately coming from the Jewish community) so we can stop the US Governments support of Turkey.
The Kurds and Armenian in Turkey and around Turkey can do fight. We in the USA only can hope to educate American people about the unjust practice by the US Governments whom they are under influence of Lobbyist. It is not true that the US Governments in need of Turkey any more strategically. The US Governments are in Georgia, Kurdistan, Afghanistan and former soviet countries. But Turks are paying very good money to buy lobbyist in the USA. The lobbyists in return are convincing policy makers in the USA to bend over for Turks aggressions.
In short Mr. Aramazd to fight for the Armenian nation’s right is to educate American people and force lobbyists to stop their unjust practice. Do not spend your time fighting Kurds because it is useless. They are just like Armenian people. Fight those who are hurting Armenian and Kurds.
Peace Mr. Aramazd
To Aramazd,
I hope your are reading this. Generally I don’t favor getting personal in such posts but in this case I will make an exception. Why? Because you strike me as a very intelligent and articulate man that for some reason has an axe to grind, not just with the Kurds, but with Armenians as well. You have managed to alienate just about all that have posted here. Now you might say so what and typically I would agree with you. But this is not just any old post. This is a discussion about the Armenian and Kurdish nations, our past, our present, and our future. Instead of finding fault with just about everything anyone has to say, why not encourage the good? As a scientist I can say with much experience, there are ways to critique without provoking.
About not being able to forgive the perpetrators of the Genocide, yes without confession one could ask how there could be forgiveness. But when there is confession my Christian faith, the same faith that our Armenian forefathers died for, says that we must forgive, or suffer the consequences. Lets not forget how important the Christian faith is to Armenian culture.
As to the matter of Armenian students not knowing about historical Armenia, I’m glad to hear that there are such great books about the subject. Indeed, I know about many of these books. A clarification is in order however. The university where I gave the guest lecture was in the United States, not Armenia. I would indeed be surprised to find students in Armenia that did not know about Western Armenia. The problem is in the diaspora, the tragedy being that we in the diaspora are loosing our connection to Western Armenia.
To Nairian,
Thank you for the encouraging words and reason – that as an Armenian you are thinking about how our interests do coincide, at least partly, with the Greeks, the Kurds, and the Assyrians. I’ve often thought that had we ancient peoples been united some 1000 years ago, the Turks would never have made it out of Central Asia in the first place.
Dr. Deranian, You are most welcomed, and yes despite the fact that my own father was a survivor from the Armenian Genocide; and I know that the Kurds were a good part of the Genocide because they were muslims and unfortunately took part in it, yet today their assembly is recognizing the Armenian Genocide and I believe 20 million of them right in the heart of Turkey. They are a significant power and their enemy this time are the Turks as it is also ours and to the Greeks. The Turks in all these years are denying the Genocide and are heavily lobbying in the US to have them deny it. As a matter of fact, I distinctly know that God wishes us to forgive as Christians, because God Himself is a forgiving God. Who are we not to forgive to the ones that repent He says, when the Almighty does it all the time to everyone. As a matter of fact, the only reason I was lured to come to these Forums in the first place, because as of late I was thinking of my kind and beautiful martyr grandmother who parished angelically in the Armenian Genocide. You’d think only Aramazd has a great deal of hurt feelings in his chest? We do as well and very much so; but we have to try to overcome that hurt at least to some degree when the people that annihilated us repent it, accept the fact that a Genocide indeed happened and they were also a part of it. Today they are also being annihilated by Turkey, the same way we were in 1915. We have to try and see the complete picture here. The Kurds are a power in the heart of Turkey. They are living in fright every day of their life thanks to the Turkish government, and I think we could live with the Kurds more peacefully than with the Turks, when given the chance, they’ll annihilate us again and again. Simple fact, 95 years later, they are fighting with money, with polytiks and in every which way they can to deny that they killed more than 1.5 million Armenians. Speaking about the Greeks, if they were friends with us a thousand years ago, instead of fighting against us and not seeing who the real enemy was; today the Armenians nor the Greeks wouldn’t have been massacred the way we were by the Ottoman Turks and the Seljuk Turks. Unfortunately, then the Greeks didn’t see it and we both lost GREATLY. Today Turkey reigns right in our lands and plays the unimaginable and the dirtiest of politics against us, the Greeks and the Kurds.
I say, lets unite against the perpetrator (the Turks). This is how the Romans did thousands of years ago. When we look back in our history books, our King of Kings Dikran the Great (Medsen Dikran) lost our lands from sea to sea at the end of his reign. Most of us know it already how the Romans didn’t wish us to be a powerful nation and they befriended the Persians, and our Medsen Dikran lost. I say, unite our powers against the Turks (our real enemy).