By Henry Dumanian
Editor’s note: The letter below, sent to the Armenian Weekly, is a response to an article titled “In Whose Interests? The Political Economy of Armenian-Turkish Relations” by Serouj Aprahamian and Allen Yekikian (www.armenianweekly.com/2010/01/11/aprahamian-yekikian-in-whose-interests-the-political-economy-of-armenian-turkish-relations).
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Serouj Aprahamian and Allen Yekikian co-authored an interesting op-ed published in Asbarez and the Armenian Weekly recently. Under a huge picture of a distastefully built Greco-Roman mansion, which they claim belongs to one of Armenia’s oligarchs, Aprahamian and Yekikian argue (quite correctly) that the opening of the Armenian border will only serve the interests of the oligarchic establishment in Armenia, and not the population at large. According to them, the chief motive behind President Serge Sarkisian’s support of the protocols is the huge personal profit to be made (by him and the court nomenklatura) once the border opens: “In the end, the protocols and the ensuing establishment of relations between Armenia and Turkey are a direct reflection of the interests of this tiny set of powerbrokers within Armenia.” They also go on to suggest that Levon Ter-Petrosyan’s opposition bloc, the ANC, despite denouncing the government, is quite supportive of Sarkisian’s approach to Armeno-Turkish relations: “Ter-Petrosyan has praised the Sarkisian regime’s policy on Turkish-Armenian relations and has even expressed his desire to establish cooperation with the ruling regime.”
These last two assertions are as false as that oligarch’s mansion is ugly.
(First, if anybody is interested—the mansion belongs to a parliamentarian whose mafioso name is “Shinanyuti Sergeyi.” When we drove by on our way to Vanadzor last summer, it was guarded by armed men and high walls—perhaps to keep the will of the masses out).
But before I begin my critique of those two points, I want to put their article in context. Between 1998, when Robert Kocharian became president, and last fall, when the protocols were announced, there has never been such a great and detailed examination (and with it denunciation) of the Kocharian-Sarkisian-sponsored oligarchy in the Armenian American community as there seems to be now. And more appropriately, there has never been such open hostility against them from people like Aprahamian, who is a staunch ARF sympathizer. This is not to say that they haven’t addressed the issue in the past. In November 2008, for example, Aprahamian posted an interview with Dr. Ara Khanjian on the huge gap between the rich and the poor. Nowhere in that long interview, however, does one see the word “oligarchy.” Instead, it is presented much in the same way it would be in America—rich vs. poor, capitalism vs. socialism, taxes vs. credit lines. I encourage people to read the new Aprahamian/Yekikian article—it is quite a detou
r from their past opinions (emotions would be a more suitable word, I think).
It is important to note this complete shift in emphasis because it has political motives behind it. Oligarchs are sponsored by and under the largesse of the ruling regime—sanctioned by the most powerful politician in the country, the president. They don’t belong in political science textbooks—they are real people with names and faces (and those seem to change depending on your political party). In the long ago pre-protocols era, “oligarchs” were a far away phenomenon. If anyone was to blame, it was certainly not the “ruling regime,” and most certainly not President Sarkisian (or Kocharian). That’s Levonite talk! In fact, the worst the Kocharian-Sarkisian regimes have done is been negligent. Look at Khanjian’s response to a question about creating greater economic equality in Armenia: “With our focus on poverty, we [the ARF] were able to influence the government and make it more aware of the needs of the poor. During the opening ceremony of the ARF’s 30th World Congress, one of the first concerns mentioned by Prime Minister Dikran Sarkisyan in his speech was the fight against poverty. This was not a coincidence. Prime Minister Sarkisyan knew that the ARF cares about the poor; therefore he explained to the ARF World Congress delegates that he also is concerned with the conditions of the poor. In addition, the government of Armenia, similar to many other developing countries, with the cooperation of the World Bank, has adopted a Poverty Reduction Strategic Paper, PRSP, which is a long-term plan for reduction of poverty in Armenia.” Does that sound like a government to blame for oligarchy? Nope. In fact, the government seems to be quite cooperative and responsive. Now, it seems like Aprahamian and the gang have discovered what many of us have long been saying: Robert Kocharian and Serge Sarkisian are the main reason why oligarchs thrive.
Run a search on the word “oligarchy” on the Asbarez website, for example. One of the results is an article about the protocols (and only but once mentions oligarchy); one is a story from Radio Free Liberty on Armenia’s human rights ombudsman; one is about the ARF’s road-to-nowhere-map on regime change; and only one search result seems to be doing the issue justice. That’s a total of four articles, two of which only mention oligarchies once, and one is from Armenia itself. Of course, this oligarchic system is the root Armenian-made cause of the diaspora’s proportionate distrust of all things Hayastan and Armenia’s problems as a whole. It is hindering intellectual, economic, social, cultural, and democratic development. Yet in the diaspora, it has received nowhere near the amount of time and focus it should be getting. If genocide recognition is an immediate community goal, oligarchies in Armenia should be getting the second most amount of attention (or even the third).
Aprahamian, to his credit, is actually one of the few people who has tried to address the issue in the past. Therefore, it is no surprise that this recent article was co-written by him.
Indeed, this new article is quite impressive: It includes names, dates, what they make, how much they make, and how they made it (even I learned something new), and it is also wrapped around rhetoric about justice, history, and of course, azgasirutsiun (patriotism). It also advocates a fierce crackdown on oligarchs. This is in strike contrast to the previous “solutions” we have been offered by Aprahamian and the like in the past: bank loans to the poor, adjustments to government services, anti-corruption campaigns, etc. Before, it was a polite conversation about abstract concepts like monopolies, democracy, socialism, etc. Now, it is advocating the almost militant overthrow of individuals (like our most trusted president). Moments after it was published, Aram Hamparian, the director of the ANCA, posted a link to the article on his Twitter feed. In fact, he even commented on Khanjian’s article about the economic situation in Armenia (also recently published). He asked, “Where is the intellectual pro-protocols argument that 1) most Armenians (not just a handful) will benefit, and 2) the benefits outweigh the costs? Those who believe in ratification, if there are any left, should stand up and publicly offer their views.” Any brief look at the reaction from the community at large paints a similar picture. From Facebook pages to comments on Asbarez, the Armenian Weekly, and Armenian blogs, “the criminal oligarchs have to go” has become a common rallying call. The contrast between the then and the now is undeniable.
Why, then, have these people suddenly decided that Armenia’s oligarchs lay at the root of our nation’s precarious situation? Weren’t these oligarchs eating away at the heart of the people of Armenia in, say, 2006 or 2005? Aprahamian’s article would have been as potent a few years ago as it is now. Research, for example, how Robert Kocharian sold national assets to the Russian government at below-market prices (essentially making the taxpayer pay for the difference). And he wasn’t selling away wine factories; he sold things that are tied to our national security: energy generators, power plants, and the like.
It is clear there is one, and only one, reason behind the massive diaspora-public outrage at Sarkisian’s oligarchy: the protocols, nothing more and nothing less. It is a good reason, if for no other, to oppose them. A defeatist organization like the Armenian Assembly, for example, can argue that the protocols are a good step in the right direction, but they cannot argue that it will only help the (now) criminal ruling elite (at least without looking like they’re from another universe). There is much force behind such accusations. It is a knockout punch (to the already credible case) the ARF community has for the Armenian Assembly folk and the broader community. Getting rid of the oligarchy used to be a much broader issue; now it is tied to getting rid of Sarkisian. If the Armenian Assembly wants to get rid of the oligarchy, they must fight against Sarkisian. If they are fighting against Sarkisian, they are fighting against the protocols. At the very least, it makes supporters of the protocols look like they are in bed with Sarkisian by ignoring the plight of the poor, miserable people of Armenia (which they are).
It also validates this new gung-ho attitude the Tashnag community has against Sarkisian. They are no longer fighting against the protocols and the rights of the “nation,” but they are fighting for the people of Armenia on a very practical and local level. Genocide recognition will make us all better in a much more abstract pan-national way. The fight against the oligarchy will help a single mother in Armenia put food on the table for her kids. Take that, open border advocates! Who cares about the real wellbeing of the people of Armenia now?
From all of this, important questions emerge: If our glorious president had never signed the protocols, would Aprahamian, Yekikian, and the hundreds of people I have heard curse Sarkisian, really stand up against this oligarchy? Would we really be talking about how they are robbing the people of Armenia of a future? Or would we be on the path we were on before the protocols, namely, a silent, yet honest acknowledgement of the issue, followed by ignoring it, and an unwillingness to attack it as it should be when it is addressed—with names, pictures, and addresses, with unforgiving anger, and most importantly, with honesty. I think you all know the answer to that question.
From that, a more important question for the people of Armenia: Are these really the people you want to stand alongside in your long and dangerous battle for regime change? The protocols are the only reason they are with you. Are these the people Vartan Mamigonian took to Avarayr? In the middle of the battle, if Sarkisian gives in to their demands and rips apart the protocols, will Aprahamian, Yekikian, Hamparian, and Khanjian leave your side? Will they leave you to the mercy of Sarkisian’s thugs and brutality much as they did on March 1? How convinced can you be that you are out on the streets, protesting, for the same reasons? Apparently, not very convinced indeed.
(I am aware that the Armenian Assembly has made the case that an open border will get rid of the oligarchy. I have chosen to ignore their arguments because, quite frankly, they are idiotic. I am also aware that the ARF community in America was fiercely critical of the “autocracy” of Levon Ter-Petrosyan in the late 1990’s. But this is the exception that proves the rule. Their criticism emanated from their partisanship (as it does now), not an honest condemnation of the oligarchs. Upon joining the coalition with Kocharian in 1998, they toned down their criticism as described above. Also, although I’m sure he doesn’t mind, my apologies to Yekikian for concentrating more on Aprahamian—I am simply more familiar with his views and work than yours).
Guest Contributor
The caped avenger, Henry Dumanian, strikes again.
So much written yet nothing said.
Armenians never cease to amaze me…
Having trouble stomaching the views of a “savage African cult worshipping tribesman?”
First of all, the article by myself and Allen Yekikian was written for the soon-to-be released Winter 2010 issue of Haytoug, the official publication of the AYF-Western US. Thus, my point of view and where we are coming from should not be a mystery.
With that out of the way, I want to quickly respond to some of the points made by Dumanian.
First, he claims that the critical analysis we give of the Armenian political-economic system in our article “In Whose Interests?” are due to the “protocols, nothing more nothing less”; that there has “Never been such staunch hostility against the oligarchs as there is now”; and that our article is “Quite a detour from [our] past opinions.”
However, in the same letter responding to our article, Dumanian states, “Aprahamian, to his credit, is actually one of the few people who has tried to address the issue in the past. Therefore, it is no surprise that this recent article was co-written by him.”
For anyone who has followed the pages of Haytoug, you will know that our discussion of these issues is not new and certainly dates before the announcement of the Protocols. In fact, the same issue (Fall 2008) with the Ara Khanjian interview that Dumanian cites has an insert called “A Glimpse of Armenia’s Top Tycoons” with profiles of ten leading, super-rich elite in Armenia. This is obviously before the public announcement of the Protocols (August 31, 2009). So Dumanian’s claim here is obviously incorrect. [Anyone interested in looking into this point can go to http://www.haytoug.com and download past issues for free]
Furthermore, as the only socialist party in Armenia, the ARF has long raised the issue of economic justice, defense of the poor, and a fight against corruption in the country. The policies of the ARF faction in Parliament and the pro-poor legislation it has pushed (long before the protocols) speak for themselves. If one is interested in statements about the oligarchic system in Armenia, there are also plenty of them from ARF leaders like Hrant Markarian, Vahan Hovannisian, etc. One needed to only follow Hovannisian’s campaign for the Presidency or read the statements of the Kerakouin Marmeen to learn about the program and policies of the ARF in Armenia and their repudiation of the oligarchs. (Documentation of all of this is plentiful but mostly in Armenian, not English. For the sake of space, I’ll spare the links and citations).
I should point out that, for us, the issue is not simply the “militant overthrow of individuals” or replacing Sargsyan with Levon Ter-Petrosyan, etc. The issue for us are the institutions in the country, the concentration of wealth and key economic sectors in the hands of the few, monopolies, the lack of rule of law, etc. In other words, our concern is with the need for systematic change in Armenia, not replacing one figurehead leader with a worse individual, who laid the bricks for the current system of autocracy in Armenia in the first place.
And, finally, that brings us to Levon Ter-Petrosyan. Dumanian starts off the article stating that our claim that Ter-Petrosyan has praised Sargsyan’s overtures to Turkey and expressed a desire to establish cooperation with the ruling regime is false and that he will refute it. However, he never does so with any evidence.
Again, for those interested in our claim about Ter-Petrosyan’s position, I would cite the same article we put in our footnotes: “Armenian Opposition Leader Backs President on Turkey,” RFE/RL, November 12, 2009, http://www.rferl.org/content/Armenian_Opposition_Leader_Backs_President_On_Turkey/1876209.html.
To end, I just want to say that the key issue are not these articles and the back and forth we can have through posting comments. The key issue is changing the condition of our people and moving Armenia forward. For that, it takes work and conscious political struggle. It follows that we must be organized and regularly working with others with similar beliefs to our own on projects and activities that get us closer to our shared aspirations as a people.
-Serouj Aprahamian
Mr. Avetis,
I understand you don’t agree with my views, but I think it’s inappropriate and offensive to treat me as a member of an extreme fringe group. My views are supported by huge portions of our population in Armenia and the Diaspora, people much smarter, older, younger, and sophisticated than me and you (including the folks at Policy Forum Armenia, a think tank, if you remember from our last discussion). You have continually brushed off almost everything I’ve said in the same manner you did for this article. I don’t know how old you are (considering you don’t seem to want to share your last name as I have), but I suspect you are of age, and so it is especially disheartening to see you engage the youth with such a snotty attitude.
If anything has ever been an obstacle for the Armenians, it has been this “Armenians never cease to amaze me…” mind set. I don’t know exactly what you are suggesting (perhaps we have always been a stupid people?) but you need to stop pretending as if you are above and beyond the rest of our tribe — it does absolutely nothing but discourage people from being active and participating.
I understand people say things they don’t usually say when they are mad, but this has been a consistent attitude from you. Are you always angry, sir? Throughout our entire discourse, I have been respectful and thoughtful towards you, even after you offered me nonsense arguments in my last article.
Either an apology or honest commentary will do.
Henry jan, I admit, you have a gift of gab, or as Shakespeare put it – full of sound and fury signifying nothing… I think you should pursue a career in sales…
Mr. Aprahamian,
I think it has become a tendency for people that “come from where you’re coming from” to misconstrue the arguments and opinions of their opponents, and respond to points that they never made. The point of the article (and I can’t understand how I was NOT clear about it) is not that you haven’t discussed, noticed, or acknowledged oligarchies as a problem for Armenia. That is why I went on to note a few instances of you doing so (and I might add [again], you are one amongst a few). The point was that in the past decade, the oligarchy had never been such a dire threat to Armenia’s well being until the Protocols AND, more importantly, the PRESIDENT WAS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR IT. And if he was, it was something we were willing to overlook considering everything else. I already made the case above as to why this is true and I don’t feel the need to address it again. You responded to a point I did not make.
I also never made the claim that the issue for you was “not replacing one figurehead leader with a worse individual, who laid the bricks for the current system of autocracy in Armenia in the first place.” I never suggested you did. (You seem to think that is what I believe, which is also false and completely unrelated to the article — I don’t believe Levon Ter-Petrosyan “invented” this system, the organization of power during his time was a response to very sensitive security issues and [although centralized, and with a big gap between the poor and the rich] it is unlike Kocharian’s banditocracy — which is nothing but THUGS and MAFIOSOS — who think, talk, and prefer to be considered as such. To treat the two systems as the same is counter productive because it will not help in finding our solution, which is my main reasoning for the differentiation. But again, I don’t want to get into this right now, that is not the point of the discussion, we can discuss that some other time).
You’re other claim: “And, finally, that brings us to Levon Ter-Petrosyan. Dumanian starts off the article stating that our claim that Ter-Petrosyan has praised Sargsyan’s overtures to Turkey and expressed a desire to establish cooperation with the ruling regime is false and that he will refute it. However, he never does so with any evidence.” Unfortunately, this is 100% true. I did not offer any evidence or address it. I intended on making this a two part series, since I realized it would be too long. I will follow up and we can have a discussion on that.
But a brief comment on that, since it is so damaging to the perceptions created in my article. Regardless of whether you agree with him, like him, think he’s an evil Jew or whatever, I think we should at least make sure we know WHAT HE IS SAYING. LTP has NEVER endorsed the Protocols. Instead, he has opposed them for DIFFERENT REASONS than the ARF and crew. The editor of Asbarez had an editorial about this the day after Levon gave his speech essentially saying LTP had sided with Sarkisian. Here’s a quote from Levon’s speech, which you can view by clicking on the text itself:
First and foremost it is easy to see that in contrast to the Congress, which rose in opposition to the Armenian-Turkish protocols from the perspective of real politics, the other forces shifted the problem to the realm of ideology, i.e. the realm of the Armenian Cause, which has no relationship to real politics and the true interests of our country. The Congress expressed two clear objections, one of which had to do with the creation of the historians’ commission that would cast doubt on the reality of the genocide, while the other had to do with the condition that the protocols had to be ratified, which opens an opportunity for Turkey to condition the normalization of its relations with Armenia on the resolution of the Karabakh conflict. In contrast to the Congress, the political forces that advocate the Armenian Cause added to the aforementioned objections the questions regarding the unacceptability of fixing the Armenian-Turkish border, the recognition of the Armenian genocide and the Armenian people’s historic rights by Turkey, as well as the compensation of the material losses incurred by Western Armenians.
Levon, in fact, was offered to the Protocols during his presidency a few times, but categorically rejected them, even according to Kocharian officials like our beloved former foreign minister. Watch the ending: “he categorically rejected the Protocols.”
To suggest that these oligarchs are behind the protocols is an oversimplification of the issue because it begs the question: Oligarchs have always been in charge, why didn’t they happen earlier?
Mr. Aprahamian, how right you are!!!!! I have long heard and known for fact that there is a certain radius in the middle of Yerevan that the oligarchs rule and are super rich, while the majority of the people in Armenia are in the poorhouses. I voice your exact thoughts that the major powerful and the rich institutions are in the hands of the administration and their oligarchs. It’s no news to everyone. I believe that Mr. Dumanian is making a lot of hor air and that we all know better. The fact of the matter is that Armenia should adopt democracy. The ruling administration should cease ruling the country with an iron fist and start thinking for the people’s welfare of Armenia; by creating jobs, seeing that the genius’ who graduate from universities are given good jobs and opportunities to rise high above, the banks provide moneys to small and large businesses and encourage them, the market for the farmers are also given opportunities to thrive. Basically I indeed agree with Mr. Aprahamian’s comments that both the ARF, the Diasporan Armenians and Armenians in the Motherland want to see the people in Armenia to thrive and not fill in the pockets of a few oligarchs’ bulging pockets only. Armenia should be ruled democractically and see to it that it is not like a third world country but strive to have more middle class subjects than the very rich oligarchs and the majority of the people left in the poorhouses.
Nairian, the problem is that the country tried to adopt democracy. Sure, it elected a guy the Diaspora didn’t like (for sins real or imagined), but it did ELECT somebody. What did the Diaspora do? Look in the mirror before you plot a whole new course.
If LTP won the election (as many suspect) — the Diaspora should have thrown weight behind the call for a new election.
If Serge won the election (as the Diaspora originally claimed) then Serge Sarkisian gets to make the decision regarding the Protocols. He is the democratically elected president of Armenia.
It’s as if some of you weren’t even alive in 2008. Remember, we had an election…there was (is) a popular movement that refused to recognize Serge’s legitimacy. And the Diaspora basically told all those people to get a life because we weren’t ready to support LTP (and thus, not the people). Now that Serge has done something we don’t like — want him to resign? abdicate? For what? “Protocols?” Wasn’t rigging an election a good enough reason to ask for his resignation? Apparently not.
Seriously, who’s side are we on? Why do you keep pretending “the people” of Armenia are this mythic entity? They have voiced their opinions loud and clear plenty of times. We have just chosen to not listen. The fact that you’re not aware of their voices (voices which run counter to yours, btw) does not mean they don’t exist or haven’t existed.
Can we say NEW ELECTIONS? The guy that got 20% of the vote has more people out on the STREETS than the guy who won 52%. Nowhere in your grand all loving Diaspora brain did you tell yourself to call up the ANCA, Armenian Assembly, your Archbishops, Prelacy, Diocese, and tell them to SUPPORT THE CALL FOR A NEW ELECTION.
Talk about “supporting democracy!” We seem to have done a horrible job. And now these same people are pretending they’ve cared all along? And I’m the one shooting “hot air.” Ha!
The sad part is most of the Diaspora population remains extremely ignorant about the issues in Armenia, what has taken place, and how the people of Armenia feel. These Diaspora organizations have been able to feed this lie that they represent the interests of the people of Armenia yet simultaneously have opposed them as best they could.
Mr. Dumanian,
I have read your articles published in the Weekly. I would like to first point out that I give the Weekly a lot of credit for allowing antagonizing points of view to be published, even by Levon Ter-Petrossian supporters.
However, Mr. Dumanian you have written this on your facebook page during the AYF protests in NY, September / October of 2009:
“Dashnaks are bad leaders
Share
Yesterday at 12:00am
I hope all the people protesting Serj Sarkissian get beat really hard. And then the next day I hope their free press is shut down and the protestors are presented as a bunch of looters and crack addicts on TV. And then their right to protest completely is taken away. And then I hope they’re fired from their jobs and their livelihood is attacked for supporting the wrong candidate.”
“I really love the Diaspora and it’s people — just for being Armenian. And if getting beat to an inch away from death like my friends and family have is going to help you realize how wrong you are — I really hope they beat you. I really do.”
Of course you justified what you wrote by stating the following comment:
“This is an angry version of what I plan on eventually writing. I’ll write a real note — more eloquent, later, when I’m not thinking about those protestors (yes, children and women too) getting beat.”
These statements show a lack of social responsibility. For someone who writes eloquent, thought out articles such as the one above, you have to be careful of your statements / reactions in public forums, such as facebook. Also the very thing you are criticizing, people being beaten, etc., is the same thing you wish upon others, a hypocritical statement.
Regardless, the statements you made on facebook, whether angry or not, and having malicious thoughts towards others, makes you lose much credibility with myself and with others I have spoken with. Why would I agree with someone who has publicly stated these opinions? You do have a right to freely express your thoughts, no question, but for you to make those statements shows not only lack of social responsibility, but a one-sided thought process of not allowing others to protest freely and express themselves, the very freedoms which you are trying to defend, another hypocritical statement. I am also a member of the Diaspora, would you like me to be beaten as well?
You may comment that the AYF-YOARF, being the youth organization of the ARF is hypocritical, since the ARF was in coalition with the Armenian government in the beginning, however just as you stated on your facebook page:
“When Levon realized the people were against his ideas (despite how convinced he was) — he did the RESPONSIBLE thing and RESIGNED in 1998.”
The ARF too did the responsible thing by leaving the coalition, just as you were once an AYF-YOARF member and an AYF-YOARF camp counselor, during Serj’s term,you too left the organization because of your reasons, does that make you a hypocrite as well?
You also made another reactionary comment in the blog above regarding your article: “savage African cult worshipping tribesman?” Are you generalizing that all Africans are “savage….cult worshipping tribesman”? It makes me, and possibly others, see a pattern of generalization on your behalf of putting people in groups and stereotyping those groups, as you have above. Or is there symbolism behind that statement that certain groups of Armenians are still “savage” and “cult worshipping” robots of a certain “tribe”?
Mr. Dumanian, you have lost all credibility with myself, and the articles you have written have also lost their value. I am sure that others may feel the same way after reading your “reactionary comments” towards your fellow Armenians. As a “political scientist” you should know better.
A Diasporan who should have been beaten an inch away from his death,
Levon Attarian
To Avedis:
“So much written yet nothing said”
Is this not the case of everything Captain Obvious has ever said?
” full of sound and fury signifying nothing…”
Henrik is just vindictively anti ARF. At least he controlled his usual mean streak toward fellow Armenians.
The protocols lifted the veil of the gist of the problem with Armenia. The Oligarchs.
Who in the world would want to mess with the oligarchs prior to the protocols?
And even now it is still “problematic” to confront them. They have the money and the police power.
No one can stop the oligarchs and their march to indirectly turkify whats left of Armenia.
Somewhere in turkey right now an Armenian oligarch is lifting his shot glass and toasting turkish- Armenian friendship with a turk.
Neither Captain Obvious Henrik, nor the ARF have the skills set to end the treachory that has enveloped Armenia and the Armenian people.
To save Armenia one would have to get rid of the oligarchs and their henchmen.
Armenian GDP would double over night and all economic, social and human development indices would shoot up through the roof.
Unless we can get rid of the oligarchs, Armenia is a lost cause.
The oligarchs sealed Armenia’s economic fate. The protocols seal Armenia’s political fate.
As for road maps, The ARF has one that I think has a chance. Dumanian has a GPS that is programmed to and from his own location.
Hye Serouj, the word duman is either Armenian or Turkish and means, in effect, an evil forboding,
a horror to happen… such as a Genocide. Manooshag
The Armenian Weekly is fastly becoming the the #1 Armenian english language newspaper in America. I think this shows that people are looking for a discussion and are tired of the status quo.
Mr. Attarian,
You’re quite right, that FACEBOOK note was out of line. I wrote that after people on somebody else’s facebook page began blaming the protesters last February for the Protocols (because they apparently weakened Serge). It was on the facebook page of a “Dashnag leader,” who, instead of scolding him, instead egged him on.
I have had family members beaten and hurt at March 1 (amongst other things)– the general attitude of most Dashnaks towards what happened between March 1 and last September (and I’m not just talking about regular folk like Manooshag) was one of…almost delight. Finally, this was a way to get back at Levon! It was/is quite disgusting. I could say many things that were said to me in private that could embarrass some very important people in our community (political folk and religious folk), but I don’t think that would be a healthy course. I do regret that facebook posting.
I am sorry if that facebook note (not meant to be seen beyond the few people on facebook, btw, thank you for reprinting it) offended you. You are right, it was out of line and I wrote it in a very angry state of mind. My apologies. I only meant that maybe, finally, if all these people felt the brunt of Serge the way the people of Armenia had, they would finally wake up. (Sadly, none of that has happened). I am also wondering why you saved that note — especially since…well…we don’t know each other? I deleted it once a friend told me it was inappropriate.
Again, my apologies — I wrote it in a burst of anger and it stemmed from a personal connection to March 1, and not from a desire to see Diaspora Armenians get beaten.
As far as me supporting him — my support for LTP has gradually evolved. I was extremely skeptical when he announced his candidacy. The only thing that honestly convinced me he should get our support was the response everybody else had towards him (he’s a jew, he’s an axpar, he wants to give Kharabagh back, he’s a traitor, his dad is Turkish). I think by fighting against these sentiments (which were prevalent in “leadership” circles), I accidentally fell into his supporter camp. (Good thing, too!).
Mr Attarian, I hope I can regain your trust.
I think it is good that these views are represented (views that I have discovered a huge chunk of the population in Armenia share).
And Manooshag — I never knew that about my last name. I find it difficult to believe somebody would name themselves after something like that, though!
“Neither Captain Obvious Henrik, nor the ARF have the skills set to end the treachory that has enveloped Armenia and the Armenian people.”
I highly doubt a political party who nobody in Armenia trusts, and whose candidate in the 2008 elections (going up against the likes of Levon and Serge) received less than 6% of the vote, are the guys to do it. Vahan Hovhanissian is even related to Serge. Purely from a political point, if the ARF was serious, it would elect a new leadership, people who don’t bring up memories of Robert Kocharian, people who aren’t relatives of Serge Sarkisian, and people who don’t remind us of this.
You would think a POLITICAL party would consider these things. It’s as if the Republicans elected Cheney to run against Obama last year.
If we don’t use our minds before our passionate hearts and Unite
No one will help us to unite
Oxford dictionary defines the Armenians
As a single minded and that is true.
We are single minded
This is our genes
How can we change and rule?
Let us unite and not praise in vain.
To Mr. Dumanian.
It is sad to read the comments that you have posted on your Face Book page attacking Armenian youth. No matter if we agree or disagree with their perspectives, one should not harbor thoughts and intents that are full of hatered toward fellow human being.
I visit this Website often and I enjoy reading comments posted by individuals with whom I might not agree, but still I consider it educational and helps broaden my perspectives in terms of current Armenian affairs. It is obvious that you have issues with ARF, with all respect I suggest to you to take it to ARF and keep it there, nobody enjoys reading comments full of poison.
Sincerely.
Daron
Mr. Daron,
I addressed the issue above, accordingly with an apology. But if I may reiterate: I wrote that facebook note, not intended to be seen by a small group of people, in a burst of anger — having had personal connections to the comments that incited my note in the first place. I also wrote it with a specific group of people in mind (hence the name) who had been quite insensitive to me in the past.
The comment: “This is an angry version of what I plan on eventually writing. I’ll write a real note — more eloquent, later, when I’m not thinking about those protestors (yes, children and women too) getting beat.”
Was meant to say I will write an eloquent version of the article when I stop thinking about the protesters in Armenia who were beaten (friends and family). I intended on deleting the note shortly after, but kept it because a conversation followed in its comments. I did eventually delete it. I don’t know why people I don’t know (and did not have access to my facebook) kept the random note — this was before I had written anything anywhere.
And on that note — the incestuous comments by the ARF youth particularly (you’re a traitor, Turk, Levon supporters should be shot and killed, deported, etc) during the elections, but also in general, should be deplored by ARF leaders. You should all be aware of how big of a problem it has becoming. (As well as the comments of the leadership rank).
I think all of us are entitled to mistakes at times of heated discussion about things we are clearly passionate about, especially in our youth.
To: Henry Dumanian, why are we here in the Diaspora in the first place? Because our anscestors were annihilated by the Turks and that is why we are in here. Yet a good many of us support Armenia in any and every way we can. I do oppose and abhore the protocols like it is written by blood. For your information I have always opposed the lack of democracy in Armenia, the dishonesty, the corruption that has been apparent since the fall of the communist regime. Unfortunately it is still continuing and it has done and continues to do harm to the majority of the people in our Motherland. I oppose Levon Der Bedrossian’s ruling and I also oppose Serge Sarkisian’s presidency. They seem to be both alike as all of us are observing now when LTP is very happy that Serge has practically gave away our rights of the Western Armenian lands in view of reparations from Turkey by accepting their illegal kars Treaty which is written in the disgraceful Protocols. Armenia on three accounts fully gave in to the Turks’ pre-conditions in the Protocols. The Protocols are not in favour of Armenia and Artsakh but only to the Turks. What are we gaining from it? Nothing, Nata, Zilch. I oppose anyone and everyone that acts against Armenia’s cause for her survival, and for her sovereignty. LTP and Sarkisian alike.
Sarkisian and Nalbandian have an aura of oligarchs that they support and it is disgraceful. It is undemocratic and it is in the latest news that from 1 to 7 rating, 1 having complete freedom and 7 no freedom; Armenia politically and economically is number 6. Meaning, the people have not much say or do both economically and politically. Armenia’s president and the few oligarchs are totally controlling the country with an iron fist and it is disgraceful, when the 90% of the people are in the poorhouses yet the oligarchs roam around Yerevan with the best European cars, owning huge houses and not have a care for the vast majority of the people. Armenia’s president should strive to think of the people of Armenia and not just his own bulging pockets. Sarkisian and his administration must make Democracy reign in Armenia and think of the people and how they can create jobs and security for the people of Armenia. Because there was Democracy in the US, this country despite of the various nationalities and the various religions among the people, it has lasted as long as they did. As for your lingo and your anger towards any one of us that oppose your point of view, I could do without.
It seems Henry’s chasm of disgruntlement originates not from the justified resentment by the majority of Armenians against sarkisian, ltp, corruption, the protocols and cronyism in Armenia today but from the absence of this same public outcry in March and before the protocols when corruption, cronyism and unilateral rule were equally apparent.
He is singling out why Armenians in general are upset now after the protocols but “soos pus” before the protocols. Corruption, cronyism and autocracy did not spring up over night right? Sarkisian and his bandits were working behind the scenes for a long time to make it happen and if any system of transparency and a stronger democratic process was in place before this protocol was in the open it may never have existed.
I think what he’s getting at is who is to be held accountable for not directly addressing cronyism, corruption and autocracy in Armenia that ultimately gave those in power a carte blanche to work against the will of the people and create these demeaning protocols amongst other things…
You summarized Dumanian’s sincere message and concerns quite well Vigen.
Dumanian is right on: “The incestuous comments by the ARF youth particularly (you’re a traitor, Turk, Levon supporters should be shot and killed, deported, etc) during the elections, but also in general, should be deplored by ARF leaders. You should all be aware of how big of a problem it has becoming. (As well as the comments of the [oligarchic] leadership rank).”
I also just realized Attarian suggested the following: “It makes me, and possibly others, see a pattern of generalization on your behalf of putting people in groups and stereotyping those groups, as you have above. Or is there symbolism behind that statement that certain groups of Armenians are still “savage” and “cult worshipping” robots of a certain “tribe”?”
I was actually referring to what Avetis had called me in an earlier post. He was the one to call me a savage African tribesman worshiping the Levon cult (or he agreed with someone who did). Nice to see there was such public outrage against Avetis too!
In Every Ethnicity Savages Breathe
‘Savage African’ what does it mean this
There are white tribes who are savages too—
Who invaded and vanished Red Indians
Were they White or Blacks?
Who committed Armenian genocide…
They were blacks or whites…!!!
(The Ancestors of Genghis Khan.)
We all have Black Genes and White Genes in Us.
Who says Armenians are pure-white.
And what does it mean to have a white skin?
We have all the syndromes and sickness,
lack of immunity and mental illness as other populace.
Do you think Armenian Jesus had a White Dermis?
I am sure he was black, but his heart was white
Arrived to save his people not Us;
Was imagined to be just White by Italian painters.
As they wanted Him to be look like theirs’ phenotype.
!!!
Let us stop for a while…
The person who used this word,
He seems brainless
I am ashamed to read such people exist
In our intelegant Araratian genes.
I can only say, “We have tragedies in our mind
we should teach and correct
before blaming others for their mistakes. ”
Sylva Portoian-Shuhaiber, MD FRCP
Note: Written Instantly
Hye, Dumanian has had his 15 minutes – and more.
Enough! Pahvets!
Manooshag
Haha, guys…I didn’t call anybody a savage African tribesman…I was only mocking Avetis for doing so in another trhead.
Can we please move on from this?
I now realize why I have found myself reading Armenian Weekly as of late: observing the intellectual caliber of individuals posting here, such as the fast talkin’ Levonakan and the MD who can’t even spell “intelligent” and thinks Jesus was black, LOL, is really amusing me… God, In really hope you folks here are not an accurate representation of my people…
thanks for your letter, I asked the site to correct but they erased.
I was expecting an unintelligent person will comment for a silly mistake.
I did two mistakes in my poem ‘ Inauguraton Day’ where I won The Carnegie Prize for Poetry, April 2009. Go to the site and read.
In medical assays we do many mistakes, but it is ignored as far as we know the diagnosis and the treatment. Now is changed to MCQs.
Shakespeare at each page he wrote he had 6-7 mistakes but it was neglected , his enemies criticised him for that, but he remained Shakespeare, may be because he was not of an English origin.
But he had international soul; and all we are…I am sure Mr. Avetis your mother is of English origin!!!
I forgot to tell my late professor Tim R. Cullinan Professor of Community Medicine from Cambridge,
And gold medal winner in Medicine.
He use to tell, “English Language is a ‘Hybrid Language’ no one can master.”
Read about him how many papers he has.
Thanks for Internet, that can correct all our silly mistakes but not our brain cells.
To Vigen: I well understand that Henry is upset because as he said it, Diasporans as well as Armenians in the Homeland should have acted and attacked heads-on with the corruption in our Homeland that has been going on since the fall of the communism regime. I am pretty sure that Diasporans tried but unfortunately not hard enough. Nonetheless those oligarchs having the power through their not-hardly earned monies were already controlling the minorities in the country. When we look back at the majority of the people who were left hungy and in destitute, was probably hard for them to fight the regime when their stomachs were hungry, their children and families were hungry and struggling from day to day to put food on the table. However, personally since many years now I have been complaining about the corruption that has been going on various Armenian Forums. One thing though, and this I must come out and tell it straight; our party heads in the Diaspora should have fought with the corruption in our Republic heads-on. It is true that they should have had the wisdom and saw into the future and fought about it strongly and harshly so that within a few years span these oligarchs wouldn’t have taken complete control of the country as they have been doing it now and for the past say at least 10 years. If you ask me, when Levon Der Bedrossian showed his true colors and he wanted to give back our Artsakh to the enemy; he should have been de-throned and thrown out of the country a long time ago. Besides, thanks to Levon Der Bedrossian and how he let our country in a terrible condition during his presidency, there was one million exodus from our Homeland. All our parties both in the Homeland and in the Diaspora should have been fighting for it at least for the past 10 years.
“I am pretty sure that Diasporans tried but unfortunately not hard enough. Nonetheless those oligarchs having the power through their not-hardly earned monies were already controlling the minorities in the country. When we look back at the majority of the people who were left hungy and in destitute, was probably hard for them to fight the regime when their stomachs were hungry, their children and families were hungry and struggling from day to day to put food on the table. ”
No, the Diaspora did not try hard enough — it barely tried. The Armenian Assembly is actually a little more consistent because they tend to support whatever regime is in power — a philosophy I disagree with because it has very big limitations. But the ARF, once Kocharian was in power, has essentially re-written history to make it seem like the government is trying to deal with the problem.
“However, personally since many years now I have been complaining about the corruption that has been going on various Armenian Forums. One thing though, and this I must come out and tell it straight; our party heads in the Diaspora should have fought with the corruption in our Republic heads-on. It is true that they should have had the wisdom and saw into the future and fought about it strongly and harshly so that within a few years span these oligarchs wouldn’t have taken complete control of the country as they have been doing it now and for the past say at least 10 years. ”
No, Ms/Mr. Nairian — this is not true either. The ARF in Armenia is essentially a pro-Kocharian force. If (more like when) Robert Kocharian comes back to power, you will see how your fellow party heads fall back in line. And the Diaspora talking heads behave similarly. I remember the AYF packet they gave us at our swearing — the grossest distortion of history and politics I have seen.
“If you ask me, when Levon Der Bedrossian showed his true colors and he wanted to give back our Artsakh to the enemy; he should have been de-throned and thrown out of the country a long time ago. Besides, thanks to Levon Der Bedrossian and how he let our country in a terrible condition during his presidency, there was one million exodus from our Homeland. All our parties both in the Homeland and in the Diaspora should have been fighting for it at least for the past 10 years. ”
This is how the sheep talk. You have not heard, read, or listened, to any speech LTP has had that isn’t filtered by the Diaspora Dashnak press (which means you haven’t read anything by LTP). At the very least, you are unfit to come to the opinion that you have come to because you lack basic information about this topic. Levon Ter-Petrosian was instrumentally in the foundation and consolidation of Armenian statehood. He was also instrumentally in winning back Artsakh — these things didn’t happen by accident. Levon has never agreed to any plan that “gives back Artsakh.” In fact, without getting into the details of it (because it would require you to know other things you definitely don’t know) — the Madrid Principles (agreed to by Kocharian) are exactly the points LTP agreed to in 1998. Secondly, the position of the Artsakhian authorities are identical to LTPs (i.e. bring Artaskh back into the negotiations). Thirdly, the Military veterans branch of Artsakh (which was the only political force in Kharabagh that voiced an opinion on the election) sided with Levon (as did half of all Veteran organizations, including Yerkrapah). The Hayastantsi population that left Armenia in an exodus (like their relatives in Armenia) overwhelmingly support LTP. I am also one of those people (although we made it a point to stay until the war ended — and only then left for medical reasons). You, the ANCA, and the Armenian Assembly, have done a great job of blocking out our voices, and the voices of the opposition in Armenia.
Nobody was talking about “human rights” and “democracy” when LTP came to power. Their was anarchy in the streets. Their was a war against the Turk. Their was no government. Democracy and human rights would have to wait. As they did in 1918. We had bigger problems. Had he failed to deliver on cleaning up the streets and liberating Artaskh, now-lost and pathetic parties like the ARF would be criticizing him for being “too soft and too slow.” As if Hrayr Marukhyan could do better? Please. Don’t pretend to be saints. Corruption doesn’t go away, nor does it start with one person. Nobody even understood what a president was supposed to be like in 1991. We didn’t even know what a diplomat was suppose to be (that’s why we brought in our great friend Raffi Hovhanissian from LA). Levon built all that from the ground up. Can you imagine this… Kocharian being in power at the time? The fact is — you have to judge people within the context of their time and place. The Dashnaks did they best they could in 1919. Sure, they ate before the population did (as do politicians everywhere), but I don’t believe had they Hnchaks or Ramgavars been in power they would’ve been the saints they think the Dashnaks should’ve been.
Njdeh and Armen Garo would be rolling in their graves to see their party be reduced to one that has been and still is diametrically opposed to the will of the people of Armenia. Never mind your cosines with Kocharian (who is, despite your outrage at Serge Sarkisian and Levon Ter Petrosian, the greatest threat Armenia faces in its internal politics). Ironically enough, the Dashnaks of 1919-1923 behaved quite like the Ter-Petrosyan of 1991-1997. Only to be ousted by scum dressed in the clothing of liberty, offering “something better.” Get real, learn history.
The Sultan was bad…but I’m sure you know who came after them…
Who are you calling scum? Tashnagtsoutyun? Are you real Dumanian? Like somebody said it in here earlier, if you have so much anger and anxiety towards the ARF, I suggest you take it up with them.
Nairian, he is clearly referring to the current leadership of Armenia, not the ARF. Take it easy.
Nairian and Tom,
Of course, when Henry Dumanian writes:
“Ironically enough, the Dashnaks of 1919-1923 behaved quite like the Ter-Petrosyan of 1991-1997. Only to be ousted by scum dressed in the clothing of liberty, offering “something better,”
the “scum”” he is referring to (which “ousted”” the A.R.F.) is obviously the Soviet regime (1920-1991), which he compares to Robert Kocharian’s government.
Why does opposition to the ARF always have to be “anger” and “anxiety” and “issues” and “problems?” As if there’s something psychologically wrong with us people…
I was also referring to the Bolsheviks and Kocharian…I’m pretty sure the ARF never “ousted” anybody out of power.
Nairian — no offense, but I think by proving that you are completely unaware of all of these historical events and people (1991 and onwards), you are simaltanesouly validating everything I’m saying about how ignorant the Diaspora is. And thus, it is no position to have an “opinion.”
Dumanian, who says that I am completely unaware? Go fight with whomever and consider this; that I am not a turk or an azeri.
I love how these ARF “know-it-alls” in the diaspora come up short in justifyting the party’s political opportunism in the RoA and how the ARF basically sided with the ruling regime after the massacres of March 1, 2008.
Hye, mher, the know-it-all… you and critics like you, are a dime a dozen. Await a ‘fall’ and use it against the Tashnagtztiun (since you are anti). Well, wake up mher. Theodore Roosevelt said it years ago and it still applies. In this instance, the Tashnagtztiun, at least is in the Arena. Knowing, whether they gain or lose, they are there facing whatever – knowing that they are seeking to advance the cause of Hai Tad, and the Armenian nation, and more. Knowing there will be the ‘dime a dozen critics’ but secure in the knowledge that they have tried, and continue in their efforts… even giving hopes to a nation that was devastated. What does a mher offer – except criticisms….
Then there are proProtocols – who with Serge and cohorts have taken advantange of the economy and more of the Haiastan. Seems to me these same , many from the USA, have also filled their pockets… although they also ‘donate’ to Haiastan (to ease their consciences) but as I see it, they get it all back with Serge and company.
It is not easy to be in the Arena – these are brave and concerned Armenians – who realize they shall have to bear such as you, but yet, remain dedicated to Haiastan in all their efforts… Manooshag
To further continue to Manooshag’s message above. Tashnagtsutyun had an army of fighters during the Artsakh war. Todate, they are fighting and have been fighting against the ridiculous self centered, self serving governments in Armenia that their only wish has been to make millions of dollars for themselves then depost it in Dubai’s and the European banks when their government is overthrown from the Republic. Meanwhile the ARF is fighting with the disgraceful protocols and the corruption that doesn’t seem to stop. Know this well; ARF is for the benefit of the people of Armenia and our sacred lands. They never did stop to work for their sacred cause and they never will. They will fight until the end of times and they will fight relentlessly.
The one thing that I think I can understand from the very jumbled writing of this kid Henry Dumanian is that he faults the ARF for its shameful opposition to Levon Ter Petrossian: namely the rabidly anti-Armenian campaign waged both in Armenia and the Diaspora just because the then-dictator of the ARF, Hrair Marukhian, who was preaching democracy and had been at the helm of the party for decades, was upset that the people of Armenia didn’t vote for the ARF. That is a very shameful chapter in the Armenian history. When Armenia was fighting a war and undergoing a brutal blockade, Dashnak officials were visiting ministries in the Diaspora to denounce the government of Te Petrossian, the first one of an independent Armenia, something that was a dream to many of us after decades of Soviet tyranny. That much is true, and with honorable exceptions like the Armenian Weekly, since the ARF has zero notion of self-criticism. If it does, someone whispers very quickly a short euphemism that passes for self-criticism (and it is usually a member who’s being excoriated in a mild Maoist manner during purges in the party ranks.)
It is true that Armenians owe it to the Ter Petrossian government the victories in Karabagh, the opening of the Lachin corridor and the de facto unification with Armenia, and not to the uncertain numbers of ARF figthers in the enclave.
It is also true that the ARF did not criticize the Serge Sarkissian regime until it was very late, and only then it dropped out of the coalition. As long as it was in the government, it was very subdued in its criticisms. Now that he is selling out Armenia and Artsakh to Turkey it is trying to whip up opposition against the clown that is leading our homeland to perdition.
However, one has to make out what this kid is saying through the maze of hateful words, his anti-Dashnak loathing that prevents him from seeing all the party –for all its faults– has made for Armenia’s independence, its survival as a nation and the fight for the Armenian cause. He is so rabidly anti-Dashnak that he even seems to imply that the fall of the Sultan and the emergence of the Ittihad regime was due to the revolutionary activity of the party in Western Armenia. His anti-Dashnak venom and vast ignorance of Armenian history prevents him from writing intelligibly and, perhaps unwillingly, ends up in the camp of those little minds, including unfortunately Armenian ones, that bemoan the loss of the Ottoman Empire, a corrupt, murderous and violent state where Armenians and non-Turkish minorities were tolerated at best as long as they agreed to recede into ignorance and submission.
Hmm, “this kid” is always a great way to start a dialogue! You said a little more than what I did in your first half of the post, but I’m a little confused why you think I fall into the “camp of those little minds, including unfortunately Armenian ones, that bemoan the loss of the Ottoman Empire, a corrupt, murderous and violent state where Armenians and non-Turkish minorities were tolerated at best as long as they agreed to recede into ignorance and submission”?
Anybody who is semi familiar with my work and my knowledge of Armenian history knows my views are nothing like that. But if you weren’t familiar (as you clearly aren’t), all you would have to do is read my 2nd most recent post where I explicitly state: “The Dashnaks did they best they could in 1919. Sure, they ate before the population did (as do politicians everywhere), but I don’t believe had the Hnchaks or Ramgavars been in power they would’ve been the saints they think the Dashnaks should’ve been” and “Ironically enough, the Dashnaks of 1919-1923 behaved quite like the Ter-Petrosyan of 1991-1997. Only to be ousted by scum dressed in the clothing of liberty, offering ‘something better.’” I am not “rabidly anti-Dashnak” — nor do I understand why people speak like this. Anti-Dashnak? You mean…I disagree with their current policies…you don’t hear people saying someone is “anti-Republican” — it’s almost a dull point. In fact, if you go to the comments of my last article — I address this strange obsession Dashnaks have with the past and how they use the memory and the achievements of great people like Armen Garo and Garegin Njdeh to propell their current insincere and dead-wrong policies forward. It was actually addressed to Mr. Manooshag, who, after being scolded by a contributor to this paper, apparently still hasn’t understood anything. If the article came off as “anti-Dashnak” … saying it was so is not an insult…that was the whole point. It was SUPPOSED to be anti-Dashnak. Contrary to the big assumptions you made Kevork jan, I am quite fond of the ARF government of the First Republic — and I reserve my greatest scorn for their contemporary opponents — like Boghos Nubar Pasha.
I never tried to suggest that the Armenians caused the rise of the Young Turks — that is an ignorant view of history. The rise of the CUP had much more fundemental and complex reasons. The Armenians, did, no doubt, help. But that’s not really a point of critcism that I want to get into right now, especially because it wasn’t an exclusively Dashnak enterprise, and especially because the Western Bureau opposed it.
What I was trying to do however was make an analogy between the fall of LTP and the rise of Kocharian (fall of the Sultan rise of the Young Turks). It is a reference to Vartan Petrsoyan’s famous satire skit. It’s wonderful actually, you should watch it (hope you understand Armenian).
All you had to do was look at my recent comments Kevork jan to know that none of what you said is true. Many people in the ARF community oppose me because they are ignorant of the facts — not only about LTP but about their own party. Many more know the truth, yet oppose me for propaganda reasons. But you’ll be happy to know that you have none of these issues — your problem is much more simpler, easy to fix. All you have to do is learn how to read better!
The ARF in Armenia is regarded as a washed-up group of opportunists who were in bed with the ruling regime for years and who turned the back on the people after the fraudulent elections of 2008.
Try as you wish, the facts speak for themselves….