Astarjian: Our Muslim Brothers
Even after 65 years I can almost feel it: the backhanded slap my father unleashed on me for expressing an opinion that was as sinful as condoning adultery. It hurt, and I carried its psychological scars until very recently. That was not the norm for my father’s authority; I had the utmost freedom to talk to him and express diverse opinions contrary to his—but not this one. His was constructed by his Armenian nationalistic upbringing tainted with Ottoman norms, which had prevailed in the overall thinking of Cilician Armenians. Mine was not.
My unorthodox expression came at a time when he was talking with his friend Aharone about Christianity, especially the Apostolic Church and Armenian nationalism. For them, the true Armenian was Christian and belonged to none other than the Armenian Apostolic Church. Catholics and Protestants were a sort of Armenians, their ethnicity somewhat diluted by their religious, spiritual allegiance to Rome, and that of Evangelicals to America, not Etchmiadzin. Both sects, in their thinking, were people who had betrayed their Mother Church for money and position, and therefore also their nationality. In a sense, they were ranked as second-class Armenians.
Some 25 years later I heard the echoes of that conversation from Beirut, where Antranig Urfalian had published his memoirs. In it he had quoted my uncle, Dr. Krikor Astarjian, who as a keynote speaker of a graduation ceremony in Nor Marash High School in Beirut, had said, “A real Armenian is Apostolic.” Seated in the front row listening eagerly were Armenian Catholic priests, bishops, and archbishops, Protestant pastors and preachers, who were all guests of their Apostolic counterparts.
“You,” he declared, addressing the front row, “ought to be ashamed of yourselves for being tavanapokh (converts of faith). You have betrayed the Armenian nation by defecting to an alien religion. It is incumbent upon you, if you are true Armenians, to return to the Mother Sea.” A deadly atmosphere, full of emotional diversity and upheaval, had ensued. Urfalian says he remedied the faux-pas by taking control of the microphone and saving the proceedings.
My father and Aharone had some anecdotes to prove their point: In the pre-genocide era, when Armenian fedayees, organized by Armenian Revolutionary Federation, bore arms to defend their villages, their families, and their property, the non-Apostolic Armenian churches erroneously believed that they were exempt from the Ottoman plans and actions against the Armenians, because they enjoyed the protection of America and the Vatican. So, based on this, their support for the fedayees was weak, to say the least.
They were not alone in this delusion. Some Apostolic clergy believed that the cause of the Turkish atrocities had been the Armenian fedayees, who had provoked the government with their armed attacks. Some Apostolic clergy who held this view even turned in some fedayees to the Ottoman authorities in lieu of protection.
All their calculations were wrong. With Ottoman-Turkish planning and implementation, the Turks and the Kurdish tribes committed the Armenian Genocide, and they did not discriminate between Apostolic, Catholic, or Protestant Armenians. They implemented the plan regardless of faith: They were Armenians, and that was enough to be slaughtered.
Today’s argument is an extension of the one that earned me a backhanded slap some six decades ago. The issue is resurrected by the plans to settle a few dozen Muslim-Armenian families in Karabagh; these are the Hamshens of Central Asia. Armenian Muslims! The social impact of this on Karabagh Armenians and, by extension, the rest of the Armenians of the world is speculative. There are over 400,000 Hamshen who live in the Trabzon area and Georgia. This is a sizable population, larger than the population of Artsakh, who speak modified Armenian, consider themselves Armenians, and demand recognition as such. (see Alice Aliye Alt’s Hamshen Armenians in the Mirror of History).
Obviously this new ethnic situation does not sit well with the chauvinist Turkish government who has done everything to evade the mandates of the Lausanne Treaty, to which it is a signatory. They have already denied the Greeks’, Armenians’, Assyrians’, and other minorities’ rights proscribed by this treaty. The Hamshens’ rise in ethnicity awareness is another problem for the Turkish government to deal with.
Recently Ismet Shahin, one prominent Hamshen-Armenian in the Istanbul political world, decided to form a new political party after being ostracized by the Turkish political establishment. Similarly the political establishment denied seven Turkish-Armenian politicians the opportunity to run for parliamentary elections on June 12.
A similar subject begging development is the issue of some 700,000 or more Turkish-Armenians who are descendants of those forcefully converted to Islam during the genocide of 1915. These people should have the full right to openly claim their Armenian ethnic origin, and to choose the religion they wish. It is incumbent upon all Armenian political parties and entities, especially the ARF World Council, which is scheduled to convene shortly, to raise awareness on this vital issue and coin a strategy for action. The church hierarchies of the four major Apostolic Seas have to take the initiative in this matter, and bring their flock home.
This whole problem raises vital questions, which the Armenian intelligentsia has to address with an open mind: Is it mandatory for an Armenian to be a Christian, and an Apostolic at that? Can an ethnic Armenian be a Zoroastrian? Can s/he be a Muslim? Were the pre-Christian Armenian tribes Armenian? Were the Arshagunis, Bagratunis, Artashesians, Tigran the Great, and other Tigrans, Christians? Are Hamshens not Armenian because they are Muslim? Should Hamshens not be wholeheartedly welcomed to our national cradle because they are not Christians? Could we have true brothers who are Muslim? Are they not Armenians because they are not Christians, and Apostolic at that?
These questions earned me a backhanded slap when my father, with Aharone, and later my Uncle Krikor, insisted that Apostolic Christianity defined one’s Armenian-ness and that a true Armenian was Christian Apostolic.
After reading this column, a lot of people will wish that my father was alive now to teach me a lesson. So do I, albeit for different reasons.





re: “…is it logical or a fare comparison to put down…”
It is neither logical nor fair, Seervart. So, only one conclusion to be reached: the person who is doing that has malintent. Is Anti-Armenian, and is a rabid Turkophile.
re: “….Turkish Republic that after 96 years when they have gobbled and devoured all the riches of the Armenians…”
Add to that 100s of US$ Billions the wealthy West has pumped into the bankrupt, decrepit Turkey to keep it afloat as a base against the former Soviet Union (now Russia).
Add to that the tariff-free access Turks were generously given by the wealthy Christian West to their wealthy markets.
Add to that the brand new factories Europeans built in Turkey to produce consumer and industrial goods.
Add to that…..
Well you get the picture. If Armenia got 1/100th of what Turkey is getting, say US$1 Billion a year (no typo Karekin-bey), RoA’s standard of living would be 3 times that of Turkey (no typo Karekin-bey)
“This is what strengthening Armenia should be all about…the the future – not the past”. There is no future without the past.
re: “….that it is unnecessary and unproductive to focus our energies on Turkey in an effort to demean it, tear it down, etc…..”
It is unnecessary and unproductive to focus ‘our’ energies on Armenia in an effort to demean it, tear it down, etc., as some Turks and their agents do constantly on these pages.
Not only is it necessary, but it is imperative to focus our energies on Turkey in an effort to demean it, tear it down, etc – as a counter balance to the vicious, hate-filled Anti-Armenian efforts of Turks and their agents on these pages.
Not only is Turkey in its present form a mortal danger – read Existential Danger – to Armenia and Artsakh, but it is a threat to all countries that have the misfortune to be neighbors with it.
However, it is this writer’s humble opinion that the artificial country of Turkey is ripe for disintegration.
Latest promising news:[ "Three soldiers dead, four wounded, including governor, in PKK ambush" (TodaysZaman Aug 1, 2011).]
With Turkey on an inexorable march back to its Islamist roots, the West will finally come out of its hibernation and withdraw its massive support of the Genocidal State.
Without massive support from the West,Turkey will continue its disintegration which was arrested by massive support from the West (and Bolshevik Russia) during 1915-1923. The 25-30 Million Kurds and Zaza will tear it apart from inside. Ethnic Turks have more enemies that they can deal with.
Payback time you Genocidal psychopaths.
“This is what strengthening Armenia should be all about…the future – not the past.”
I’d take up the call to forget the past for a second, but guess what we see in the present, Karekin?
Refusal to establish diplomatic relations with Armenia happens in the present.
Closing of the Turkish border with Armenia happens in the present.
Turkey’s economic blockade of Armenia happens in the present.
Turgut Ozal’s insolent threat to drop bombs on Armenia happened in the present.
Dispatch of Turkish military advisers to support the Azeri army shelling Stepanakert and emptying Armenian villages in and around Artsakh happened in the present.
Murders of Hrant Dink and his lawyer happen in the present.
Constant threats of their psychopathic prime minister happen in the present.
You wanna talk about the present and future, not the past? Then try me, explain why all the above are happening in the present if we distance ourselves from the past? I’m pretty gullible…
Dear Avery, Thank you for all your constructive posts above in response to the Karekins and likes and elsewhere too. BTW; I have read your post on the Editorial “Can Life Imitate Chess” and I liked it.
Coming back to Turkey, yes it was in the news that they’re starting to tear each other apart; the Ataturk believers and their army vs. the Islamist fundamentalists. And then, like you said there is the 20-30 Million Turks that have been and are still being continuously persecuted by the Turkish government. Let them disintegrate from within. We’ll watch and when the ripe time comes then we’ll see. If only the Christian West were more Christian-like and smart, from Khrimian Hayrig’s time, if the West supported us Armenians and gave us back our lands then, by now we would have been a huge Armenian Republic, the Western and the
thanks for the reminder Karo.
re: “……the Azeri army shelling Stepanakert….”
Lest people forget, let’s remind people of what ‘….shelling Stepanakert….’ really meant.
The terror bombing of Stepanakert went on for close to a year, by Azeri GRADs, long-range artillery, and fighter-bombers flown by Ukrainian and Russian mercenary pilots.
About 2,000 Armenian civilians were murdered: a war crime by any definition of the term.
About 200 Azeri civilians were killed @ Khojali (Azeris claim 800): they call that ‘Genocide’ (yeah, yeah right). But 2,000 murdered Armenians @ Stepanakert is not even mentioned by anyone other than Armenians.
Thousands more were wounded, crippled, maimed – including children.
Half the city was destroyed or leveled.
People were reduced to eating scraps of food and drinking rainwater.
I remember a female Azeri member of their Parliament expressing disbelief that Armenians were holding on for that long in the face of the massive bombardment.
Correcton on my post above; obviously I was trying to say that it is the Turkish government who have been in the past and are still persecuting the 20-30 Million Kurds living in their country today.
As my tiny labtop is continuing to give me a hard time to input my posts, I will make another attempt to finish my above post. If the Christian West around Khrimian Hayrig’s time listened to him and our pleas of supporting us; today both the Western world and the entire world would have been saved from belligerentness of Turkey et al, and the West would have been eternally set in peace having an ingenius, a civilized, a sane, a powerful yet a very peaceful Christian nation on their side in Western and Eastern Armenia and the Caucasus region. We Armenians would have saved the whole world from the calamities that befell them and all the Genocides and the Haulocosts would not have occurred, if only the Western world would have been intelligent enough to foresee the future, to having been Christian enough and if they had more humanity traits in them. The West and the whole world would have been living better times today if the West supported Armenians when Khrimian Hayrig went to them on behalf of Armenians.
Look – saying ‘if’ this happened or if that happened or if only so and so did something differently… does not work, either as a strategy or as a way of viewing history. History is what it is, not what you would wish it could be. I’m not saying to forget our past…we know our past and the truth quite well, but wallowing in it endlessly means that you will, at some point, drown in your own remembrances. Any one of us only has the power to change our own circumstances in the present and to work for the best for the future. A wall lined with history books is a great thing, but….at some point, you need to leave the ivory-tower security of the library and step into the real world, because that’s where the rubber meets the road. I’m writing because, for the first time in many centuries, we have an azad Hayastan that’s survived more than just a few years, but I am fearful for its survival because of practical considerations on the ground, such as an economy that is struggling, at best and the economic rise of hostile, resource-rich neighbors. Only strength (academic, economic, physical) will allow Armenia to take advantage of the future, and in that strength, hopefully it can recapture and claim its rightful past, but until that moment, survival has to be paramount. The idea is to keep your eye on the real prize – which lies in the future…rather than to focusing on past laurels or pains. This might seem like a motivational pep talk…because that’s exactly what it is.
the last thing Armenians need is quote ‘motivational pep talk’ from Turks or their Turkophile agents. I am sure that denigrating Armenia at every opportunity is considered ‘pep talk’ in the hallways of Milli İstihbarat Teşkilatı.
Use you motivational pep talk on yourselves: you need it, we don’t.
Our motivational pep talk is our 5,000 year history of survival against all odds.
Our 5,000 year history of creation, of human advancement, of civilization, of building - instead of destruction that your nomadic tribes unleashed on peaceful civilizations.
In other news that might interest your nomadic tribes:
["British parliamentarians warn EU against Turkish membership" TodaysZaman Aug 1, 2011] Here is the quote: ["A panel of UK lawmakers said it's concerned about risks to the European Union from organized crime and illegal immigration if Turkey joins...]
A British diplomatic way of saying “…we don’t want your Muslim Turk hordes invading our Western Christian Civilizations any more”. Maybe you guys need to start planning a trip back home – to the Altai Mountains and Mongolian Steppes, your native homeland ?
Read it and weep, folks – ignore at our peril:
http://hetq.am/eng/opinion/3362/
old news.
Proves my point though: what ‘Armenian’ trolls the web to constantly dig up bad news
about Armenia and Artsakh ?
I proudly troll the web for bad news about Turks and Azeris: enjoy it as a
matter of fact: no surprise, I never made a secret of my dislike of the Fascist Turkish and Azeri States, pray daily in fact for their dissolution.
Some, quote, ‘Armenian’ trolls all day for bad news, nothing but bad news, about Armenia while at the same time constantly praising Türkiye: what’s wrong with this picture ?
The problem exists, but we don’t weep and you shouldn’t gloat. Scarred with the emigration problem, Armenia now is much stronger than in the early 1990s. Some arguments in the article are undeniable. However, some others are highly arguable. Even laughable, as this one: “With respect to emigration, at least one resounding difference separates the first and subsequent administrations: while we thought of emigration as a problem that had to be resolved, subsequent administrations seem to think of it as a solution to one or more problems.” Few in the early 1990s believed that first administration ‘thought of emigration as a problem that had to be resolved’. Many believed it was the first administration that opened the doors for emigration.
We should follow Israelis policy, how Jews and Israelis around the world are co operating, even in military services I can see some American or Russian born Jews in IDF…why not Armenians!!we need to modernize our beloved country and replace older generation of politicians slowly and effectively with newer ones with the help of Diaspora Armenians…we should be involved with Armenia’s every day of life and bring their standard of living and democracy level as same as other European or American standard…
Dear Avery, Isn’t it something that a Karekin has to preach us what to say or not to say about our precious history, when he does not has it in his heart what it is in our hearts? Ours, yours and mine are for our little and sacred Armenia and Artsakh, but his? You and I and many others in here feel it in our guts and in our intelligence that it isn’t what he is trying very hard to convey or make us believe that it is for our sacred lands and for our people; but we know it only too well that his heart and soul is only for our number one enemy (the Turks). Before I wrote about the Westerners and our beloved Khrimian Hayrig on my above post, I also read it in Today’s Zaman that how the Brits are pretty much frightened not to have the EU to accept any Turkish people in Europse. Oh yes they are scared now, especially after they have pressed Germany to receive Turks and they are making a whole lot of trouble to the Germans today. That’s exactly why I wrote my above post about the West; because the Westerners didn’t have any heart, Christianity, humanity nor forsightedness for us when a little over 100 years ago when our Khrimian Hayrig pleaded with them on behalf of our Western Armenia/Eastern Armenia and our civilized people to regard us and support us; but did the West listen to us? Did they open their hearts or their minds for us? The anser is “NO”. Yes my dear Avery, we Armenians got hurt plenty and a lot; we have lost our lands and most importantly, even more than our lands, we lost our precious people (and they were the cream of the crop of all humanities), yet very selfishly the West didn’t listen to us at all. And today they are hurting, aren’t they? They certainly are; and I am a Christian, but for a very good reason, today I am not touched by their hurt, because they let my people get hurt a great deal without having any regards for us the Christian Armenians. The entire West looked the other way when our wonderful people were atrociously and savagely were massacred by those barbaric Turks in 1915 and beyond. And till today, Britain and America continue not to accept nor call it by it’s right name that a Genocide of the 20th century to the Armenians occurred by the barbaric, savage man eating Turkish government the Ittihadists. And till today they still pay them the Turks zillion of $$$$$$ and even assist the barbaric murderous mobs, the Azeris, because of the oil. All they think about is $$$$$$ and more $$$$$. Not Christianity, not humanity and not even for the safety or the future children of people and mankind. If only they assisted us then and helped us to get our lands back and gain strength and support from them, today the West would’ve had much peace of mind and a much more help from us, because unlike the Turks, we Armenians don’t speak from both ends of our mouhts. When we give our words, we mean it. If for instance, they wanted our lands for Americans to land their army, we would have let them and not play games with them as the Turks have done and stil do it. Now let the West boil in hot water, as they did it to us for more than a hundred years. I am not sympathizing with the West and I don’t think any Armenian who know their history would either.
No one is gloating Gor, far from it. It’s a dose of reality, and being aware of it and yes, fearful is probably more accurate. The situation is deadly serious. I think Libaridian is trying to make that point. You can reject it if you want, make jest or attack the messenger, but none of that will change the painful facts on the ground. Only a serious, multifaceted policy approach can do that, but few here seem capable. Everyone is self-satisfied to throw insults, empty slogans and fantasy talk. Good luck. As they say, this is no way to run an airline.
I said the problem exists and some points in the article are undeniable. Therefore, no need to give me ‘you can reject it if you want’ when I said I admit the problem exists. I think strengthening of Armenia, safety of Artsakh, and recognition of genocide, as Karo rightly put, represent the multifaceted policy approach for the nation in contrast to one-dimensional, lop-sided ‘forget the genocide concentrate on Armenia only’ approach of yours. I also said that some arguments made by Libaridian were strongly arguable. One being, if I had to ask him, what was the result of not putting the genocide issue on Armenia’s foreign policy agenda? Did Turkey open the border and establish diplomatic relations with Armenia during the first administration?
Criticism & discussing our woes is always beneficial.I had read Libaridian’s article,counter articles & comments.I do hope that our government reads & listens to our woes as well.However when Libaridian discusses emigration…what is he doing in US?Shouldn’t he at least follow his own advice?
I am not certain, but I think he is a bona fide diasporan (possibly Syrian-Armenian?).
nothing stops a bona fide disaporan (what is that ?) from immigrating to Armenia.
My father and mother, Syrian-Armenian and Lebanese-Armenian, respectively, immigrated to Armenia SSR.
So VTiger is right: anyone that is not happy with the state of emigration from Armenia should do their patriotic duty and immigrate to Armenia, instead of writing about it.
Agree with his politics or not, Raffi Hovanessian left his comfortable life in the US, and moved to Armenia, where he lives with his wife and 5 children.
Karekin — Holding such defeatist, self-depreciative, and oftentimes explicitly anti-diasporan views, do you consider yourself a bona fide diasporan? Is it your newest invention: bona fide diasporan? And who is a counterfeit diasporan? You, perhaps?
The real point is that denigrating someone like Libaridian – a bona fide intellectual – who has alot of on-the-ground experience, instead of evaluating his ideas in an intelligent way, is counterproductive. When it comes to Turkey, the endless denigration, in an attempt to elevate yourselves, is equally unproductive. When children throw mud at a neighbor’s house, they are just mudslingers, no matter who lives in the house. When someone insists on stomping his shoe onto dog poop, there is a very good chance some of it will end up on his pants. Libaridian is not denigrating anyone, but is suggesting that if we want to see Armenia survive, that there needs to be a major change in our approach to issues that do not directly help Armenia to survive and thrive. For a country of 3 million or less (a fraction of the population of Istanbul), to attempt any kind of arm twisting with a well armed, well funded and populous neighbor, aka Turkey, is a bit ridiculous, no matter if it thinks it has Russia’s backing. It is not serving to built Armenia…just the opposite. Put your pride aside for a moment and think in practical terms, if you truly want Armenia to survive. He is raising his voice, sounding the alarm. For once, please pay attention.
“When it comes to Turkey, the endless denigration, in an attempt to elevate yourselves, is equally unproductive.”
When it comes to Armenia, the endless denigration, in an attempt to elevate yourselves, is equally unproductive.
“For a country of 3 million or less (a fraction of the population of Istanbul), to attempt any kind of arm twisting with a well armed, well funded and populous neighbor,”
‘For an Armenian population of 200,000 or less of Artsakh to attempt any kind of arm twisting (aka self-defense) with a well armed, well funded and populous neighbor, aka Azerbaijan, is a bit ridiculous…’
Thank God Artsakh’s heroic people and Warriors were not reading posts @ArmenianWeekly in 1988-1994, otherwise they would have given up and been exterminated, and there would be no Artsakh (maybe even Armenia) today.
Nobody is denigrating Libaridian & on the contrary self criticism is always beneficial as long as we can lessons.Emigration & economic difficulties are being discussed for the last 50 years & more urgently for the last 5 years.Please read the here below article(11/07/1961) written by Mr. Simon Simonian editor of Spurk weekly in Beirut:
50 ՏԱՐԻ ԱՌԱՋ ( 11 ՅՈՒԼԻՍ 1961 )
ՈՒՐԻՇՆԵՐՈՒ ԿԱՐԾԻՔԸ
ՀԱՅԱՍՏԱՆ ԴՐԱԿԱՆ
ԵՒ ԲԱՑԱՍԱԿԱՆ ԵՐԵՍՆԵՐՈՎ
Պէյրութի «Սփիւռք» շաբաթաթերթը «Երեք հայաստաններ եւ երկու հայութիւն» խորագրեալ խմբագրականներու Ե. մասին մէջ, ի մէջ այլոց կու տայ ներկայ Հայաստանը իր դրական եւ բացասական կողմերով ներկայացնող պատկեր մը, զոր կը ներկայացնենք մեր ընթերցողներուն.-
Հայաստանի մէջ կան անառարկելիօրէն հետեւեալ դրական եւ ժխտական երեւոյթները.-
ԴՐԱԿԱՆ`
ա.- Գիտութիւն
բ.- Ճարտարապետութիւն
գ.- Երաժշտութիւն
դ.- Պատմաբանասիրութիւն, որոնք Հայաստանի վերնախաւին – մտաւորականութեան – շնորհներն ու բարիքներն են: Իսկ ժողովուրդին – զան- գուածին կամ կոճղին իրագործած դրական երկու յաջողութիւններն են.-
ե.- Շինարարութիւն
զ.- Արտաքին սահմաններու ապահովութիւն
Ժխտական երեւոյթներն են, որոնց մասին արտայայտուելու ազատութեան շրջանը թեւակոխած ենք այլեւս:
ա.- Ներքին արտագաղթ կամ Հայաստանի բնակչութեան ամրահիմ չարմատաւորուիլը իր հայրենի հողին վրայ:
բ.- Խորհրդային Միութեան այլ հանրապետութիւններու մէջ գտնուող հայութեան ազգային
անկազմակերպ վիճակը եւ անոնց հետզհետէ կտրուիլը եւ ուծանալը հայ արմատէն:
գ.- Հայկական շրջաններու (յատկապէս Ղարաբաղի եւ Նախիջեւանի) անջատումը եւ վերամիաւորման յետաձգումը:
դ.- «Խուլիգանութիւն» կամ հայկական Ենիչերիութեան տիրապետութիւնը, հովանաւորութեամբ մարքսիստ ֆէոտալներու:
ե.- Ռուսերէնի տարածումը ի վնաս հայերէնի. ռուսական դպրոցներ եւ հաստատութիւններ Հայաստանի մէջ (կը մնայ ճշդել ռուսերու թիւը Հայաստանի մէջ):
զ.- Հայոց հաւատքին եւ Էջմիածնի հայրապետական աթոռի իրական զօրացման հնարաւորութենէ զրկուիլը:
Է.- Հայութեան հարազատ դիմագիծի աղարտման նշաններ:
ը.- Անցեալի, յատկապէս ստալինեան շրջանի աղիտալի երեւոյթներէն ոմանց վերապրուկները:
Some probable good news…
Western Investor To Look For Shale Gas In Armenia
03.08.2011
Emil Danielyan
A Western offshore-registered company pledged on Wednesday to explore Armenia’s untapped deposits of shale gas, a new and increasingly important source of energy, and possibly attract foreign investment in their commercial exploitation.
A top executive of the company, International Minerals and Mines (IMM), signed a relevant memorandum of understanding with Energy Minister Armen Movsisian in Yerevan.
The development came two months after a similar agreement signed by the Armenian and U.S. governments. It calls for a “cooperative assessment and technical studies” of Armenia’s shale gas resources to be conducted by Movsisian’s ministry and the U.S. Geological Survey, a government agency.
In a written statement, the Armenian government said IMM plans to “fully explore and develop shale fuel reserves existing in our country.” It said the company will do that through a recently established subsidiary called IMM Energy Armenia.
The statement did not specify any time frames or other details of the exploratory work. Prime Minister Tigran Sarkisian, who was present at the signing ceremony, was cited as stressing the importance of the deal.
According to corporate records available on the Internet, both IMM and IMM Energy Armenia were registered in the Isle of Man, a British-run tax haven, as recently as on June 16.
Armenia – Energy Minister Armen Movsisian and U.S. Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch sign an agreement on shale gas exploration, 2Jun2011.
The U.S.-Armenian memorandum on shale exploration was also signed in June. The Armenian Ministry of Energy and Natural Resources said at the time that the two sides will not only gauge the feasibility of shale mining in Armenia but possibly devise “investment projects” for that purpose.
The ministry added that the agreement is the result of an international conference on shale gas that was hosted by the U.S. State Department in August 2010. It said U.S. officials offered exploration grants to government representatives from Armenia and about two dozen other countries that attended the three-day forum.
“The organizers … noted the readiness of the U.S. government and companies to make investments in those countries,” read a ministry statement issued on June 2.
Shale has become an increasingly important source of natural gas in the United States over the past decade. Shale gas industries have also emerged in Europe and China.
The world’s vast reserves of the sedimentary rock have led some analysts to suggest that shale gas will eventually become a real alternative to depleting energy resources such as conventional gas and oil.
If you have any concerns about pollution and the environment in Armenia, shale gas is not something that is good for the country or our people. Money is not everything! The process of getting gas out of shale poisons the water supply and the companies that engage in it are notorious for avoiding their responsibilities. Armenia does not need this kind of environmental disaster.
If you’re concerned about Artzakh, then you should be demanding that it officially be reunited with Armenia, instead of floating around as an unrecognized and illegitimate territory, not unlike Turkish controlled Cyprus. Face the fact that Russia is preventing this from happening, and perhaps the US and Turkey, as well. If you are as pro-Armenia as you say, then the status quo cannot be supported.
When it comes to history, we all have to realize that Armenia has been invaded, occupied and invaded again, many times. There have been persecutions, population transfers, massacres, genocides and wars. Somehow, each time, Armenians were able to hang on and recover. While they might have lamented their past and their fates, it did not stop them in their tracks. They didn’t waste their time demanding that the last conqueror be vanquished. They kept going. They did not look back.
At some point, we all need to realize that 3 million souls in Armenia are living in a very dangerous situation. If you think dwelling on the past, whether it be the genocide or Stalin or the Mongols, will help lift Armenia out of its current, dire circumstances, then you need a good dose of reality. We don’t have a million man army or very much else to protect us….so, what do you suggest? More articles on the genocide? How does that protect and save Armenia??? That the genocide is well known is not a mystery…go to Dzidzernagapert… remembering is fine, but focusing on it cannot help Armenia – if you think it can, tell us how and why. This is the real question that remains unanswered.
Everything haa side effect.Nevertheless this project is underway & lessons learnt in drilling & excavations in the US will be implemented in Armenia to avoid disasters or to minimise the side effects.There will be minimum of water,air & noise pollution using the latest new-generation rigs, low-emission engines, & advanced water management systems.This will create jobs & give us some room to breathe.finally,hope that Haig nahabed had settled on the right space with little gas & oil on the sideline.The whole of Baku & its surrounding is polluted, similarly the Caspian Lake.Istanbul?My God how it is polluted.I know very well as I visit it often.The whole sewage of Istanbul is dumped into the Bosphorus.
Artsakh has been liberated at worse conditions than the present circumstances.Whether it joins Armenia or not is secondary.It is free & independent.Compared to the past at least we’ve regained back Artsakh,which we had almost lost it as Nakhichevan.I for one do not trust the Turks nor the Azeris & their motives are very clear to me.Better be free than kiss the backsides of Turks.Up till now we’ve survived the Soviet system,the earthquake,the Artsakh independence war,the embargo & still nobody starved of hunger.Under the current conditions yes we are not prosperous but on the bright side we did not need the humanitarian aid of the UN.We are survivors & it is not ‘somehow’ as you say.We work to survive & it is in our blood.Turks failed as after the Genocide we did not disappear & fade away.
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From a conflict resolution point of view, I have a different take. I interpret this sentence from the point of view of Burton’s basic human needs theory and Volkan’s chosen trauma and glories. According to the basic human needs theory, humans all have the basic needs of identity, security, recognition and development as well as basic physiological and physical needs. If humans are prevented from satisfying their needs because of a perception of conflicting or incompatible goals, then they will fight to eliminate the frustration in order to satisfy their needs. One of the most important elements influencing the conflicts among Turkey, Azerbaijan and Armenia is the issue of ethno-national identity among the conflicting parties.
As a result, identity as a basic human need is pursued regardless of the cost. When ethnic groups’ identities are threatened and felt to be victimized, it leads to what Vamik Volkan calls the egoism of victimization. As a result, one ethnic group has no empathy for another ethnic group because they emphasize their chosen traumas. By this psycho-analytical process, a victim can become a terrorist, committing violence with little guilt. When ethnic groups are badly victimized, they become obsessive about the trauma and justify their unjustifiable acts. So how can we combine these theoretical backgrounds to a single sentence?
President Sargsyan is a representative of one ethnic group: Armenians. Armenians have always and will always have aspirations to the territory of Turkey and Azerbaijan. The explanation is simple: they think that their basic human needs have been threatened for more than 100 years. Also, they are like many other ethnic groups who have been victimized by a great power. Their chosen trauma, the Armenian Genocide, has been and will always be real in their perceptions and group psyches. Also, their group psychology leads to no empathy for the other side, namely Turks and Azerbaijanis.
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The above is from an interview with Dr. Sezai Ozcelik, head of the International Relations Department at Cankiri Karatekin University.
The above inteview is very self illuminating & it explains a lot aboutus people that have passed through terrible trauma.
On the other hand have you read the Armenian article?If you cannot read Armenian have it translated.
well said VTiger:
the relentless negative propaganda and psyops continues by Turks and their agents.
Milli İstihbarat Teşkilat posting guidelines:
“any good news about Armenia, just has to have some bad news in it: make sure you ignore the good news, and emphasize the bad news ”
“any bad news about Armenia, just has to have even worse news in it: make sure you emphasize that”
Artsakh is free of Azeri-Tatar-Turk domination.
Artsakh is free and Independent.
Artsakh and Armenia have finally succeeded in giving the Armenian Nation crucial strategic depth.
Artsakh is a fully functioning, democratic state.
Many states that are UN recognized are in fact failed states. Ex: Somalia, Libya, Azerbaijan….
It is the fervent wish of Turks and their agents that Armenia recognize Artsakh, so that it can be used to damage both Armenia and Artsakh. They have instructed their agents to plant that meme into Armenian blogosphere. Armenian sentinels routinely detect and counter the spread of this viral meme.
Armenia’s and Arstaskh’s leaders have wisely stayed the course: continue building and strengthening Artsakh. Ignore calls by enemy agents to recognize Artsakh.
Avery how true.
A question, if someone can help, thanks in advance.
When?, the Central Bank of Turkey, will cancel 6 (000,000) from the new lira,introducing the New of the New lira?
As it done in 2005,changing the old lira with the new lira YTL.
A person, who, in seventies, invested an equivailent of 10000 USD , in Turkish Lira denominated bonds, (at that time could buy a good home in USA), with a medium yield of 8 percent/per annum, in compound interest rate, in 2005 he got, the sum of 1 USD and 12 cents in new turkish lira.
Shall we invest in YTL ?
VTiger….I certainly hope you are right and I am wrong, but….facts on the ground tell me otherwise. Maybe over time things will change. But…in reality, until Artzakh is reunited with Armenia, it is no different than Turkish-occpuied Cyprus in the minds of world leaders, the UN and other international political entities. This means that it and the people there, are at risk. Yes, Armenia won Artzakh but at that time, Azerbaijan was in a very weakened state, the oil industry was in shambles, deals with Turkey and Israel had not yet happened, pipelines had not been built and US military aid had not yet reached Baku. So, Armenia may have missed its chance, despite what Sarkisyan says. Karabagh was won, yes, but it is not yet reunited with Armenia, though supporting and protecting it is costing Armenia a pretty penny. The formal reunification should have taken place a long time ago, because as it is now, there is not one international agency that either recognizes its independence or its reconnection to Armenia. Add to that the fact that it cannot survive on its own economically, and you can see why reunification is imperative.
Karekin,Artsakh’s official unification with Armenia can wait for the proper & right political circumstances.There is no rush whatsoever.Practically it is united as the currency,car plate numbers & others used are same as Armenia.For us it is already united & under the current conditions our first & last objective is to keep it free & independent from slavery.This is final & no way back whatsoever.We lost Nakhichevan (I always wonder why still the Azeris keep its Armenian name…) & learnt a very harsh lesson.Until mid 1960s almost 40% of the population was Armenian.There is not a single household in Artsakh that has not suffered a loss of family member.Do you think that they will give up their hard won independence after so much sacrifice & suffering?Just go to Artsakh & talk with the locals.The Artsakhis consider all occupied territories as part of Artsakh & they dream about regaining the Azeri occupied Shahumyan region.The last say is theirs.Turkish Cyprus is not recognised by anybody except for Turkey & what is its outcome?Even Aleyivistan is not recognising it & you know very well why.Tell me who has recognised Jerusalem as the capital of Israel?Do the Jews give a damn about it?How about South Ossetia & Abkhazia?Do the Armenians give a damn if Artsakh is recognised by any international agency?NO!
US military aid to Baku?This is news & new to me.Please clarify & verify.Do you mean Israeli miltary hardware sales?We saw what happened in Georgia with the US,NATO & Israeli military aid.
More than 90% of Aleyivistan’s economy is based on the oil industry.Its income is very vulnerable to this industry whether it is oil price fluctuations,decrease in production or capability of export.Oil & its pipelines will be the first to be hit in the first event of war & more territories will be occupied & as a result the super corrupt Aliyev & its Nakhichevan mafia will fall similar to Mubarak,Ben Ali,Kaddafi & others on their way out…Don’t you think that the sultan knows that?Aleyivistan was & still is very weak economically.All its gained wealth is being siphonned by the corrupt ruling clan,being spent on huge imports(including weapons),being spent on bread & petrol subsidies(so that the sultan survives) & it will be an net oil importer by 2030.
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Azerbaijan could become net oil importer by 2030, state report says
Declining oil reserves starting in 2013 combined with falling commodity prices could throw the Azeri economy and government budget into a tailspin.
While the Azeri government’s own Center for Economic and Social Development says that the country is in the midst of an oil boom as it develops huge reserves in the Caspian Sea, government forecasts call for oil revenues to peak in 2012 and reserves to peak in the following year. The rate of decline, the government says, could turn the country into a net oil importer as soon as 2030.
Oil production is already running below last year’s pace. For the first six months of this year, Azerbaijan produced 23.8 million metric tons (174.5 million barrels) of oil, a drop of 1.445 million metric tons (10.596 million barrels), or 5.6%, from last year’s production to date. Natural gas production is also off. The 12.91 billion cubic meters produced in the first six months of 2011 is 238 million cubic meters, or 2.1%, below the figure for the same period last year. That figure casts some doubt on Azeri government forecasts that call for the country to produce 29.13 billion cubic meters of gas this year, 7.8% more than was produced last year.
Combined with falling commodity prices for oil and gas, the production declines spell trouble in the long run for the Azeri economy and government budget. Azerbaijan has relied on oil exports to power its economy, and a sustained fall in those would drive up government budget deficits and interest rates thanks to declining tax revenue.
The hit to the economy and government budget could even affect the ongoing dispute over Nagorno-Karabakh, a majority Armenian region within Azerbaijans borders. The inhabitants of the region have waged a fight for autonomy dating back to the late 1980s in which neighboring Armenia has taken interest. Azerbaijan has used oil revenues to suppress the autonomy movement and hold off on any negotiations or moves that might result in autonomy for the region. A severe falloff in revenues could force the government to the bargaining table with the Armenians in Nagorno-Karabakh.
http://www.huliq.com/8738/azerbaijan-could-become-net-oil-importer-2030-state-report-says
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You explain to me what will be the benefits of unification & why it is imperative.Why are you always so pessimistic?What are your positive suggestions if there are any?
excellent retort VTiger:
a couple of corrections if I may.
re: ‘The Artsakhis consider all occupied territories as part of Artsakh & they dream about regaining the Azeri occupied Shahumyan region.’
The lands beyond the territory of lines delineated for Nagorno-Karabagh ASSR were not occupied, they were liberated. The lands are historic Armenian lands.
When Azeris consider Yerevan ‘occupied Azerbaijani lands’, we shouldn’t be shy about calling what is historically Armenian lands – liberated lands.
re: ‘in the first event of war & more territories will be occupied’ - ….more historic Armenian lands will be liberated ifArmenia or Artsakh are attacked.
Avery,I apologise you are right & I should have used ‘liberated’ instead of ‘occupied’.
VTiger…for the record, I think Armenia has won Karabagh fair and square after Azeri aggression and hostilities towards Armenians, and that not one inch should ever go back under Azeri control. Why Azeris want to keep Nakhichevan is a mystery to me, but the issue of military cooperation is not, because there is oil involved. Very sad to see our tax dollars used this way:
United States
Section 907 of the United States Freedom Support Act bans any kind of direct United States aid to the Azerbaijani government. Despite this law there is extensive U.S. military cooperation with Azerbaijan. This has included Special Forces and naval aid, consultations with United States European Command, and linkages through the U.S. National Guard State Partnership Program.
On 19 May 2006, Azerbaijani Defense Minister Safar Abiyev and the then commander of United States Air Forces in Europe General Tom Hobbins met in Baku to discuss military cooperation. He said the objective of his visit was to become familiar with the state of Azerbaijani armed forces.[59] Hobbins pointed to the progress made in the NATO-Azerbaijan relations, saying that the successful implementation of the NATO Partnership for Peace program in Azerbaijan has brought the country even closer to the alliance. He said that the two countries’ air forces will expand cooperation.[60]
The U.S. state of Oklahoma is linked with Azerbaijan through the U.S. National Guard State Partnership Program (SPP)). Oklahoma National Guard troops have been sent on training and humanitarian missions to Baku.
Karekin,I’ve read your quoted 2 paragraphs.Please verify its source.There are similar programs & cooperation between Armenia,US & NATO to the extent of Armenian forces’ existence in Afghanistan.I vaguely know that Baku is used as a hub for transporting military goods to Kabul.
Yes not a single centimeter should be given back of our liberated sacred lands.However I’m waiting for your input regarding ‘ what will be the benefits of unification & why it is imperative’.
Well, there would be many benefits of a formal, legal, re-unification, both for Armenia and for the residents of Karabagh/Artsakh. For one, the people who live there would become citizens of a real country and have real passports. Citizenship confers many benefits, but it might also encourage people to move there because they would feel they were under the official umbrella of Armenia. At this point, what are the Karabaghtsis – stateless people? citizens of Azerbaijan? They deserve better than that.
For Armenia, there are many potential benefits, from water resrouces to the ability to source anything there legally. In many ways, this would probably encourage investment, because as things stand now, investors probably find the current situation too risky. Another would be the official cessation of hostilities, which is expensive and another threat that would diminish.
In the US, many territories were, over time, folded into the federal system, including Hawaii and even Puerto Rico, neither of which would ever survive on their own. We also need to recognize that Azerbaijan annexed Nakhichevan…and so there is a legal precedent. But, above all, Armenia should reunite with Karabagh so the Karabaghtsis can become legal citizens of Armenia.
That fertile land of Artsakh can feed not only Armenians but entire Russian population…Armenian Diaspora should get involved with Artsakh agriculture industries and invest money there as much as they can!!
Karekin,whatever you say is true in peace time.Artsakhis travel with Armenian or Russian passports & not Azeri & they are not stateless.However when you are in a state of war as we are our main concentration is keeping what is ours & what the enemies want to take from us by force.
True, but this just underscores my point….that a legal reunification to Armenia is paramount. As I understand it, the Armenian government has always wanted to work within international legal frameworks on Karabagh. For any country, a ‘state of war’ is an expensive enterprise that can drain all kinds of valuable resources. For Armenia, which is already in difficult economic straits and should be focusing on rebuilding their economy, maintaining its population and generating income, it is imperative. It would not surprise me if Armenia’s enemies are actually prolonging the status quo in order to weaken Armenia.
The status quo is involuntary.Golan Heights are occupied since 1967 & Northern Cyprus since 1974.State of war applies to both Armenia & the sultanate & all that you refer applies to both countries.Our main concentration is to keep what is ours for eternity.Practically Artsakh & Armenia are unified.We do know our weaknesses very well & as I’ve mentioned in my earlier comments sultanate’s woes are much worse & Aliyev knows what will happen to his hereditary rule together with his mafia in case he follows Saakasvhili’s gamble.In case the peace process does not result into an agreement & the war starts then it will be right time to declare unification.
Yes, you might be right. Of course, none of us know for sure. The concern, however, is really about the ongoing militarization of Azerbaijan, which has deep pockets and lots of money to spend with willing allies and suppliers. A small spark could create a large fire…but, I sincerely hope it doesn’t get to that point.
Karekin,obviously non of us want war.But it does not mean that we are not ready for it.Personally I believe it is good for us that Aliyev is in power & sticks to his chair as long as Kaddafi & Mubarak.
The RANT of the Armenian genocide will never end will it???
Obviously it did happen maybe with exaggerations now.. maybe with alterations, BUT ARMENIA isnt the only place they happend ALOT throughtout the world especially durring that time period.
Even before. look at Italian Columbus arriving in the Americas and hurting so many Natives, do you see a majority of the latin population mad? no they have learned to get along. yes some loons are still racist but not the most part.
Look at the jews removing arabs from thier own land.
in Africa there is a genocide right now.
Common look at the Nazis and the germans. NOT ALL GERMANS wanted to kill jews/ gays/ jehova winess etc. OR wanted to be nazis, yes THE this bad thing happend to many jews its a pity but they remember there holocost in a much more “LESS HATEFUL” way than armenians remember their genocide.
You do no good just being racist. really if you say TURKEY is bad your saying the armenians who live there the kurds etc, this happend durring OTTOMAN times not turkish, the president removed Islam basically, and Turkey helps many counties out. SO Understand If YOUR ARMENIAN then amazing cause i love their food and music! haha but the WORLD is made up of Latin, Arab, Asian, European people too… i like every culture they have there own food, money, history, and getting along is much better than ugly feeelings of resentment and hate. OF course im not saying FORGET that it happend, We cannot forget every terrible thing BUT we must remember in a educational manner to help all societies improve themselves and to Never repeat such harm again
ZaaraJamil,it is not your parents that were butchered,raped,killed.It is not you who has lost everything,including homeland of thousands of years & have been scattered homel;ess.
Once you’ve passed through this process then come & preach us.Easy for you to preach.
ZaaraJamil, you seem to ignore the big difference between the Jewish Holocaust and the Armenian Genocide. The Germans apologized before the world and are paying reparations to this day. Because of the ongoing efforts to reconcile and compensate, the Jewish anger has modulated and they, as a people, can properly mourn and move forward. Because of the denial and lack of contrition on the part of the Turks, the Armenians still struggle for a just resolution against the evil wall of distorted history that stands in the way of our right to mourn our dead and reclaim what is ours.
Big difference in the two situations. You need to contemplate this before criticizing Armenian’s so-called hateful ways. What we hate is the lying and denigration of our nation by an unrepentant Turkey. You are poorly informed and lack compassion for those who suffered greatly the loss of home and nation and have awaited justice for almost 100 years. Yes genocides and massacres have happened before and are happening today. This is no excuse for Turkey failing to face her responsibility; especially if she insists to comment on the human rights affairs in other nations.