The “hacktivist” (activist hackers) group “Anonymous” recently released a new video announcing Operation Armenian Genocide, which threatens attacks against Turkish and U.S. government websites if they fail to recognize the Armenian Genocide.
“…And to the Turkish government: In 1915, The Turkish killed millions of Armenians. Now you have to pay for your actions. Nearly two million people were killed by the Turkish including children and women and yet you still deny the existence of the genocide… This is a warning to you. We will start targeting Turkish government websites until the genocide is confirmed,” read the altered voice on the YouTube clip uploaded on Jan. 25.
The message also threatened to engage in cyber-attacks against official U.S. websites if the genocide is not recognized by “next year.” It is unclear whether the deadline is April 2012 or April 2013.
“Every four years in the United States, every official who wants to be a president tells the Armenian people that they will confirm the existence of the Armenian Genocide. However, the U.S. has not yet confirmed it. If this occurs next year, we will start targeting U.S. official websites. Operation Armenian Genocide, engaged,” continued the voice.
The clip ended with the group’s slogan, “We are anonymous. We are legion. We do not forgive. We do not forget. Expect us.”
It appears the video was prepared before Jan. 23, when the French Senate passed a bill criminalizing the denial of the Armenian Genocide. “Your protest against France won’t help. The French Senators will pass the bill and they are supported by hundreds of historians,” declared the voice in the clip, adding, “You will not join the European Union and never will.”
The video announced both the launch of Operation Armenian Genocide and Operation Anti-ACTA (the acronym for the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement, which deals with intellectual property rights and includes measures against the production and distribution of counterfeit products, generic medicine, and online piracy). Opponents argue the agreement infringes on individual rights, including free speech and the right to privacy, and would lead to an increase in border searches and screenings of person electronic devices such as laptops and iPhones. An earlier draft of the agreement said internet providers would give authorities information on individuals suspected of copyright infringement without a warrant, and that governments could shut down websites engaged in piracy.
According to a thread on a Russian-language blog post, Operation Armenian Genocide (#OpArmGenocide, as it is also called on sites such as Twitter) was “shelved” to focus on Operation ACTA and Operation Megaupload, and it is unclear when it will re-launch.
On Jan. 27, however, the official website of the Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs was briefly offline. The Armenian Weekly could not independently verify that it was due to Anonymous action, although some sources claimed it was.
The creator of the video may be of Armenian origin, since s/he states, “Germany is still paying Jewish people for their actions and now it’s time for Turkey to give back our land and pay us for our loss.”
Anonymous has no leader, but is made up of internet users who work collectively towards a certain goal while maintaining anonymity. Anyone can become a member of Anonymous and propose actions; it is up to each member to support or oppose any suggested operation.
In 2011, Anonymous went after Turkish government websites in retaliation for measures preventing Turkish citizens from accessing websites such as YouTube. Turkish authorities had initially set up the ban because of the presence of videos offensive to Mustafa Kemal Ataturk’s memory.
In a previous operation, Anonymous attacked websites belonging to the U.S. Department of Justice, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and the Universal Music Group, among others, in protest of the shutdown of the movie-sharing website Megaupload in January, and the arrest of four of its staff.
During the Arab Spring uprisings, Anonymous targeted Tunisian, Egyptian, and Libyan government websites in solidarity with the protesters. The group has a string of operations under its belt, including Operation Intifada, in response to Israel’s alleged involvement in cyber-attacks against Iran; Operation Syria, in support of the 2011 Syrian uprising; Operation India, against corruption in the country; Operation Blackout, in retaliation of the Stop Online Piracy Act in the U.S.; and Operation Avenge Assange (part of Operation Payback), in response to companies terminating their services to WikiLeaks.
Anonymous hackers have also released e-mails, passwords, and private information of individual targets, including police officers who were believed to have used force against protesters in the Occupy movement.
Nanore Barsoumian
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Is this real?
thanks to AW for publishing this article. Like Boyajian, I also wonder “is this for real?” I had never heard of this group. I have, however, often wondered why anyone assumes that they have the right to freely use another’s intellectual property. Why would anyone think that when someone creates a painting, a book, a music, a dvd or video, or film, that you have the right to download it without payment, without permission, simply because you like it and want it and need it? What do you think the creator pays the rent and buys the groceries with? Why does something belong to you simply because you want it? Freedom of information is a misnomer. You pay fees to go to university. Public schools and libraries are funded by tax dollars. You pay to go to the movies, to concerts, to theatre, for books and journals and magazines. Why would anyone assume the right to simply rip off without permission, without payment, a work that comes from the creative mind and hands of a hard working person trying to also make a living? Because you can’t afford to buy it? Well, the creator can’t afford to give it away. Put your money on the line, or get permission. There are, of course, many on-line sites where the content is made freely available.
I hope it is..
great… now all we needed is a legion of psychos engaging in illegal acts in the name of justice. And what, the turks are supposed to think: “we better recognize the genocide, since the downtime of our governmental websites is hurting us more”. ;)
The anonymous are nothing but a bunch of online vandals (they don’t have the capacity to scare anyone, otherwise I’d call them online terrorists). Having them on this side of the recognition battlefield will just give turks an opportunity to use the fact of such illegal acts in their denial campaign.
Must be a bunch of teenagers with a lot of time on their hand, using their mothers’ laptops before they come home from work…
And I don’t believe it is real or newsworthy Nanor…
Would any mature person honestly think that their actions are going to force the Turkish Gov. to recognize the Genocide? And as for US… Go ahead and destroy any good will that there is towards the Armenians, and the Armenian cause… And why attack only US websites? Go ahead and attack all the other countries’ official websites that do not recognize the Genocide.
This is ridicules. Now we have Cyber terrorists.
Bringing websites down is easy. Doesn’t take any special talent or smarts.
How is this going to resolve our Cause?
Hairo jan.. bringing websites are not easy..I know I could not do it… I know my friends could not do it…
This may not resolve our Cause but it will help stop the lies to some degree… Turks will jump the minute something it is not to their favor or liking.. look how Turkish govt attacks everything possible when it comes to Genocide.. Armenians needs to take action like that as well.. can’t be silent and nice and passive anymore…
If this group truly will help to at least decrease the injustice and lies that Turkish webites and US websites spread.. then I am a supporter…
Gayane
Ok wait a second.. are we getting their mission mixed up with vandalism, and illegal acts??
thought their mission( from what I understood) is to stop denialism on any Turkish sites… or any websites that spreads lies… i don’t see this as vandalism or illegal act.. it could constitute a bit too forward but I am not going to stop them..
i don’t see this as being bunch of crooks trying to destroy the good name of the Armenians (UNLESS I am totally missing what this group is trying to accomplish)..
The ARmenian good name is already been tarnished a long time ago.. and not because we as a nation did that but in US, the news can’t get enough of us.. even if we did not do the crime, they will attach the Armenian to the story just like they did in the the recent murder in LA where a head and other body parts were found in a Canyon close to the HOllywood sign… News worthy stories of Great American Armenians won’t get the front page or get on prime time but when one small % of Armenians commit a crime, it wil be blasted all over US.. talk about isolation of one ethnic group….
but coming back to this story.. I must have missed this organization’s true calling.
@ Gayane. These are excerpts from this article:
“… threatens attacks against Turkish and U.S. government websites if they fail to recognize the Armenian Genocide.”
“The message also threatened to engage in cyber-attacks against official U.S. websites if the genocide is not recognized by “next year.”
So you see it clearly says that if they “fail to recognize the Armenian Genocide”, and also they give a deadline. So yes you have missed the intent of the group. I cannot be sure of course but I am willing to bet that there is no US official website that even mentions or discusses the Genocide let alone “deny it”.
Also I highly doubt that those in Anonymous that brought down PayPal or hacked into FBI are the same folk that will be working on trying to hack into US/Turkish sites… And last but not least think of the consequences… If you start a cyber-war then expect retaliation such as bringing down of AW, or Asbarez, etc… Pointless, pointless waste of time, energy, and talent (if indeed they have it).
“i don’t see this as vandalism or illegal act..”
I don’t think it’s up to you to decide if this is legal or not. Attacking websites, defacing and vandalizing them sounds criminal to me. If it is illegal (I’m assuming it is but I cannot definitively say so), it does not matter who the target is.
I’m not sure I like this idea. It’s not going to prevent denial in the slightest.
Just reading by your comment aggravated me, Armenians are changing so much. The Armenian name was NEVER tarnished. We will always have a good name. Every race, religion, ethnicty whatever you want to call it does good and bad and that is a fact you can’t erase. Saying that nonsense about the body parts isn’t enough to tarnish a peoples names, if your Armenian and your saying things like this… you shouldn’t be posting anything about information about this.. All I know is if my country called on me, and needed my aid to stop another invasion I would be their in a heartbeat like my blood brothers did Monte Melkonian and the rest. Also we Armenians never relied on the AMERICAN media, we relied on our diaspora so get your facts straight, stay with the Armenians.. and we all be fine I can assure you this…
Random Armenian.. all due respect… I never said it is up to me whether or not hacking Turkish websites is illegal.. I voiced my opinion and I am sticking to it whether or not you think it is or not…
Again.. whether or not they are real … or bunch of crooks or bunch of young this or that.. if they are out there hacking Azeri or Turkish websites.. MORE POWER TO THEM.. i could care less if this is considered illegal or not.. we need to stop this “oh but what if we do this.. they will bring down AW….” Turks do EVERYTHING possible whether it is publicly known or behind the closed door.. they are doing everything possible to deny, and block Genocide.. and it is time we answer them back … i know this may sound very forward but I am tired of playing safe.. if these bunch of crooks as most of you call them do succeed in blocking/bringing down Turkish lies/denialism TO SOME degree… then I won’t stop them.. let them… we don’t know about their history.. or how they operate.. we are basing all on a you tube message… so if no one knows really how this group works in real life or even if they are real, then why are you all jumping to conclusions you don’t even know yet…. ??? I just hope if they are real, they plan this operation intelligently…and execute it with very high precision.. but whether or not it is criminalization if one attempts to stop lies and denial that puts emotional harm on the victim or victim’s descendents is to own interpertation… and in my opinion it is not a criminal act if one hacks into Azeri or Turks site to stop such hate speech…I repeat.. it is my own opinion…
Dear Mike Vartan… I can assure you that I am very Armenian and even more than some me or you may know….. which is why I was very frustrated and absolutely livid when I heard or read about how the news injected the Armenian name associated with the cut body parts BEFORE A SOLID INVESTIGATION OR FURTHER TESTING.. without positive identification, the news threw the Armenian name like Armenians are all criminals… the reason I used that example is NOT to say we are bad or wanted to say anything negative about my own people…. i used that example to show how much love and hate relationship American news channels and community at large view Armenians.. they will take every opportunity to throw Armenians under the bus… whether or not we speak about it, it is out there.. whether or not we don’t rely on American news for stories we live in US and the American news is what ALL OF US listen and expose to .. so yes it matters…. I used this example to show how news channels and newspapers portray Armenians.. even though we have American Armenians worthy so many great stories.. they neglect to report on that.. but will the first to report anything negative whether or not it is done by Armenians or not.. can’t you see the bias??? the way it is. our name has been tarnished otherwise these news channels and newspapers won’t jump on a wagon every time something negative happens in the community and attach the Armenian name to it.. it is very very unfortunate and it frustrates me a great deal.. so before you assume i am not with my people, please carefully read and understand what I was trying to drive with that example…
I solute you for taking arms if and when our country calls for it.. mayb God protect you and your types because we need more like you… but i can assure you that I am with my people and not against it…
thank you
Gayane
Gayane. You were clearly indicating that you did not see defacement and attacks of websites as vandalism and illegal. If the law says you can’t do this then it’s illegal, no matter who the target is. Attacking Turkish sites with disgusting genocide denial material on them with vandalism, is still vandalism and would not be excused in court. That’s my point. (But then again I’m not a lawyer and anyone with a legal background is free to chime in).
I’m sorry if I my response was harsh. It was reactionary and quick on the draw. I do that sometimes unfortunately. But I was reacting to this idea that somehow the fact that the targets of attack are a source of genocide denial, would make it ok under the law to vandalize them.
Anonymous is very real. They hacked the FBI website some time ago. They are no joke.
I highly doubt that those in Anonymous that brought down PayPal or hacked into FBI are the same folk that will be working on trying to hack into US/Turkish sites… Pointless waste of time, energy, and talent.
From what I understand, Anonymous is a very, very loose “organization” of hackers. It’s more like a movement rather than a well organized group.
bad idea who ever is involved. just think if Hrant Dink would have condoned such actions.
the armenian diaspora must get this and get it clear as mud that actions of vandalism or terrorism from the diaspora one does not help our cause and secondly makes life much more difficult for the armos living in turkey and in armenia. so please stop your creative bull sh..t from your couch or cozy chair in your protected little haven.
armenians living in turkey always suffer the consequences of such stupid acts. remeber our goal is to get our churches/property/land back peacefully through understanding and mutual trust.
Arek, while I agree with you that we should not condone such vandalism, however, I respectfully disagree with you that should keep the Armenians in Turkey in mind before discussing or bringing the Armenian Genocide to the governments around the world.
The Diasporan Armenians are trying to make the Tukish Armenians life better there by bringing these issues up. We all know how terrible it is for the minorities in Turkey. We’re trying to improve it for them.
With that said, cyber terrorism and vandalism will not resolve our case.
Reading the comments, is anyone focussing upon the success of this group? The message of the group? Any of the real points this group is bringing to light?
Doens’t feel like it.
Public discourse is the only form of communication left. Govt’ officials in all parts of the world, aside from France, are nothing but liars when it comes to this issue. The media will paint the picture according to their own agenda, as the integrity of journalism has taken the form of a lackey.
Condemning or belittling this is not the right approach, unless of course, you either don’t believe this needs to be a global humanitarian issue, or dno’t believe it happened at all.
I fully support this group in the name of humanity!
Zeke.. that was my understanding as well.. that the group is out ther to stop spreading of lies and denial.. I did not see anything criminal attached to what they are trying to do…
I too support and will support such movement if indeed this is their true calling…to eliminate further mockery, lies and manipulation of the truth…
However, seeing such negative reaction to the group, I thought I misread the article….
Gayane
Do you have the same support for ASALA as well?
@Zeke,
Re:
> is anyone focussing upon the success of this group?
———————————–
we are specifically talking about this news story, and the Armenians who claim to be part of Anonymous. This has nothing to do with some of this groups other works for whatever reason. This particular one is pure and simple pointless vandalism… And so the terrorsits were successful in bringing down 2 tall buildings in NY… what is your point?
Re:
> Any of the real points this group is bringing to light?
———————————–
What are the points that they are bringing to light that our intellectuals, historians, activists, gov of RoA, media has not brought to light (again I am talking about the Armenian Genocide).
Re:
> Govt’ officials in all parts of the world, aside from France, are nothing but liars when it comes to this issue.
———————————–
Re you serious? French pols are different? I am waiting to see your reaction when they back-pedal and not reatify it (you know that it is on hold, right?)
Re:
> Condemning or belittling this is not the right approach, unless of course, you either don’t believe this needs to be a global humanitarian issue, or dno’t believe it happened at all.
———————————–
You can only think of those two reasons? If you read the comments here you would find at least a dozen reasons… Unless of course you think that yours are the only “good reasons”.
Gayane, I love the idea of support for our cause, but not through cyber attacks!
I am still wondering if it is really Anonymous. If you check the you-tube video you will see that the quality of the video is not the same as other Anonymous videos.
It might be an opportunistic prank.
I agree with those who worry about how this could backfire on us. Could it be sponsored by a pro-Turkish group wanting to bring negative attention to our cause?
I thought of that as well. That is why hacking Us sights will back fire. The real culprits are Turks and Azeri’s No one else. The world won’t care if they alone get hacked in the name of justice for genocide….
Boyajian,
Do not worry..shameless west wont care cyber attacks as they did not for ASALA terror organisation murdering Turkish diplomats..
Necati Bey.. no one asked you anyway.. soooo…
Necati,
Drop in the bucket compared to the 1.5 million dead Armenians who where killed in the most inhumane fashion and then had their property and wealth stolen that you still deny ever happened today..
Centenials:
24th April, 1915 – Armenian Genocide
3 years to the centenial anniversary of Armenian Genocide.
3 years ‘deadline’ in our conscious to overcome injustice done to our nation.
29th October, 1923 – Formation of Turkish Republic on the ashes of our martyrs.
11 years to the centenial anniversary of Turkish Republic.
11 years to impede Turks to join humane society without recognition of Armenian Genocide.
And our struggle for justice wouldn’t stop there, it will be just the begining.
Our struggle may take many forms, open or covert actions!
But remember this! Our struggle to get the justice done shouldn’t be mixed up with ‘unrelated’ activities, such as piracy laws or else!
DO YOU TRULY CARE ABOUT NOTHING BUT REPUTATION AND IMAGE??
YOU CAN ALL COMFORTABLY SIT AND CONDEMN THE ACTIONS OF THOSE TRYING TO ACHIEVE JUSTICE ON THE ISSUE OF GENOCIDE DENIAL, BUT THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE TO TAKE ACTION ON THIS ISSUE.
1- If they get caught, they must be prepared to accept responsibility
2- If Turkey condemns all Armenians for the actions of a few hackers, they’ll be the fools
3- Hrant Dink is no authority on what people can and cant do OR should and shouldnt do. Just because he wrote about the Armenian Genocide doesnt make him the go to answer for what all activists must do from this moment forward. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEAD.
4- They are not terrorists, especially since they have not caused anyone terror or done any terrorizing acts.
5- Its cute how you want to downplay the skill and effort required in hacking. Your so cool. Congratulations.
@ ArmenianYouth
Your name ‘Youth’ reflects your naiive thinking!
That’s why you get comments from ‘TurkishYouth – Necati Genis’.
1- Using capital letters doesn’t take you too far!
Learn to think and reflect!
2- What would we achieve by being associated to a hackers group already associated with illegal activities?
3- Did you ever know, Turkish hackers are well known by the west?
4- Even if the hacking of Turkish government websites were part of a some Armenian groups covert action (as US and Israel does against Iran), it should always remain secret as the US and Israel do!
5- Last but not least, how do you know all this ‘Anonymous’ story is not a Turkish invention to stain Armenian rightful strugle with illegal hacking activities?
ha ha..
we have Ay Yıldız Team..
Anonymous is only an Atari gamer ..playing Super Mario..
:)
and what are you Necati Genis… ???
A notorious disrespectful denialist who to this day have the face to show up on our pages… you people have no shame do you???
Hayrenakitz and Raymod… thank you for your opinions .. and that is all it will be…
again.. our problem is that we don’t read our posts carefully and we jump at people’s throats without truly understanding what one is trying to say..
I SAID THIS NUMEROUS TIMES .. that IF THIS GROUP IS FOR REAL, I HOPE THEY ACT PROFESSIONALLY … IF THEIR PURPOSE IS TO STOP LIES AND BS on TURKISH OR AZERI OR WHATEVER SITES it is by simply shutting down their sites, THEN I DON”T SEE A PROBLEM… I MYSELF can’t say they are crooks or not because I DON”T KNOW THEIR REAL EXISTANCE… i am just sharing my thoughts and opinions… if they are doing illegal matters/putting not only their lives but everyone else’s in danger than OBVIOUSLY I AM AGAINST IT… holly smokes.. get off my case already.. .. i go with what I read …
you may believe it is vandelism.. i say I dont’ see it that way ONLY IF THEY ARE OUT THERE TO STOP these sites from spreading lies, and denial…. it is my own belief….. whether or not i am wrong and you are right.. it is up to a higher calling.. but don’t come here and tell me I am wrong because I believe differently than you…
thank you and have a nice day..
Gayane
All the commentators who think this is a vandalism are shippers. Do not tell me that this is a bad idea after nearly 100 years of not recognizing the Armenian genocide. How does your bran function to come-up with this line even? Throughout the Armenian history there were “Armenians” like this who trait us in critical times. According to these shippers we should have not fought in Sardarapat and get destroyed by turks and loos the last hold of Armenian land. All I can say is SHAME ON YOU. You have done nothing for our people so stay out of this. If we listened people like you, we wouldn’t have today’s Artsakh.
I support anonymous and thanks for the support of Armenian genocide. You doing a great job for a great cause. Thank You!
@Arman,
Re:
> ll the commentators who think this is a vandalism are shippers
———————————
I think this is vandalism, and I do not work in shipping industry!
How old are you? A mature person would not characterize, and judge people who he doesn’t know as you have (According to these shippers we should have not fought in Sardarapat)???
@ Arman… another ArmenianYouth.
Another naiive dreamer.
I’ve ssen many young ones like you in the YouTube who think internet is the real battle ground.
Wake up! It is Anonymous for the REAL meaning!
You may be supporting a Turkish government founded group!
You’ll NEVER NEVER KNOW!
Again.. NO ONE knows the actual fact about this group.. but if they WERE real.. I support them IF they are out there to stop the BS and lies that turkish and Azeris spewing all over the place.. again .. i hope that this is a very highly organized group.. (and just because the you tube message is a flimsy or very poorly done, this does not mean it was not done intentionally…) very intelligent groups will never reveal their true selves… some very highly trained organizations/individuals use decoys to throw off its enemy.. just a thought…
again.. because I don’t know now what is the truth or not..i can’t rule out the fact that this could also be a game Turks are playing..who knows…..
Hairenakitz on you tube….Arman may have said things that did not sit well with you or to others..but it is HIS right to post whatever it is on his mind.. i am not sure how you came to a conclusion that he is young..how do you know he is young??.. how do you know the things he seen what we would never want to see(i don’t know you so i hope i am not crossing my boundaries by assuming) how do you know he was not in the battleground int the Artsakhi war .. how do you know if he did not put his life in danger with many other young men in those days who died next to him just so that we have our lands… i know it is hard sometimes to hold back our anger and that goes to Arman, myself and many, but one’s opinion is sacred to the person writing it..hence, it is wise to put our efforts fighting the enemy and not each other…no matter how our opinions differ…
@gayane
As much as you talk )or write) you reveal that you don’t read worldwide newspapers!
I suggest to spend part of your time outside Armenian papers, or Google search about what is happening around and what this ‘Anonymous’ represents…. before judging the news or becoming mediation between commentators!
I am pefectly right to call childish dream to whoever links “Anonymous” and Artsakh war! Don’t you think so???
How would you be proud when Anonymous’s illegal activities are being linked to our martyrs in Genocide and Artsakh war?
Highlighting the need for one’s maturity is not an internal war!
I may laugh about latest bungle between FBI and Scotlandyard being driven crazy by Anonymous hacking their communications… but let’s be serious!
Jokes apart, please don’t mix it up with our 97 years struggle!
How is vandalizing Turkish government websites a good idea? It strikes me as childish. What do you think it will accomplish? Disagreeing with this tactic does not make an Armenian a traitor. I’m sorry but your response is very heavy handed. Vandalizing turkish websites is not at the same level as fighting for your land in Artsakh.
Hacking US sights is not very smart.. However hacking Turkish sights and Azeri sights is awesome..More power to who ever these people are.. Turks hack Armenian sights every april24th with vile comments and images.. So in return I can care less what happens to them.
Fake. Anonymous = CIA = Anonymous. That is all.
Victor,
How do you know this?
The scum whom think as such should keep their mouths shut, as stupidity is contagious. If we are the CIA then why is a vast 99.99999999% of Anonymous still not arrested? Why would the CIA launch attacks on the country they swore to protect? Ignorance isn’t bliss.
the turkish anti-armenian madness must stop, but not this way. how can one be sure that this is not a provocation set up by the turks?
asala was terror organization and asala killed about 50 turkish peoples all around the world about this topic you are never talking
Abuzer Mahmudi..if you believe ASALA is a terror organization and they killed 50 Tukish people, then please bring this up to US govt or any govt you wish to complain to even ICTJ.. .. ..we are discussing the 1.5 million and still counting innocent people murdered and their descendents yet to see justice… ..
have your Turkish denialist govt admit, apologize, and repay for the Genocide of 1.5 million and counting innocent souls.. when that happens, we will be very open to discuss the ASALA and the 50 Turks …
All killings are wrong …
But If your grandparents were killed not everyone can stay like a saint because in their homes they heard stories of genocide every day…
Do you stay coward and killers after more than 1.5 million were killed…???
It was not killing…your theory is…
“Turks must kill… but Armenians must watch only…and cry silently…”
Recently Turk did not gun Hrant Dink…!
His honest brain cells worth million of criminals…
Was he a killer …!
He was peace lover
but Turks planned very well to kill him by innocent hands…
So don’t speak about others…
Clean you hate first and well…
SP
Sylva: I agree with what you are saying. Yes, what ASALA did was wrong (I think they were terrorists personally), but part of me can’t blame them for taking arms against a government who killed their ancestors and covers it up. But again, violence never solves conflicts, it only creates new ones.
abzur
why do the Kurds hate the Turks so much? Maybe the Turks kill and rob everywhere they go? And the Kurds understand this swell as well as any Armenian, Assyrian, Greek, Jew, Bulgarian etc…
@Raymond and @Hairenakitz on YouTube
I am old enough to be Artsakh war veteran. I don’t remember people like you among us, thanks God! I have proven my love to my country and my people by receiving Shushi freedom medal. So do not try to discredit my thoughts with your cheap line. I have earned the right to express my thoughts. You guys sound turkish agitators. Seriously, people like you try to divide Armenians with their ship thinking, but you are not succeeding.
Today news is “Թուրքիայում գետնին են հավասարեցրել հայկական մատուռը”. What are you going to do about this with your ship thinking?
Once again, keep away from Armenian issues, you DO NOT help but destruct us.
If you continue posting this kind of comments than i would defiantly think that you are turkish undercover agents, or CIA. We have some among us who are activated when elections are around or the president is criticized not saying the genocide word.
@Arman
Re:
> I am old enough to be Artsakh war veteran.
—————————–
And how is that? 18?, 19? 20? If you have fought in Arstakh then “hazar madagh kez”, and I mean it. I have been a teenager, and I have teenage kids who I love dearly. But like you, they are still too young to know their elbow from their asses. Please don’t call anyone who disagrees with you as a “shipper”, Turkish agitator, or CIA agent. Expressing your opinions is one thing but there is no need for spewing drivel like that. And again “hazar madagh kez”…
{” I am old enough to be Artsakh war veteran. (wrote Aram)
—————————–
And how is that? 18?, 19? 20?” “I have been a teenager, and I have teenage kids who I love dearly. But like you, they are still too young to know their elbow from their asses”} (wrote Raymond)
Raymond:
I don’t know how old Aram is. But I know basic math: Shushi Liberation was 20 years ago. Most Armenian freedom fighters were in their mid 20s to mid 30s. Armenians rarely allowed even 18 year olds to fight. So Aram is at least 38, more likely mid to late 40s.
Way past 18,19,20. And way past the age to “know their elbow from their asses”
correction: should have written ‘Arman’ instead of ‘Aram’.
My mistake.
@Avery, this is why I like your posts. You catch falsehoods and point it out in a way that cannot be refuted :) In this case my mistake wasn’t too hard to catch, but I couldn’t get over the fact how a mature person would call his fellow Armenians “traitors” just because they don’t agree with his point of view. And if I may ask… Are you Armenian? Half-Armenian? non-Armenian who knows a lot about Armenians? Just interested…
Raymond:
show me where I called my fellow Armenians “traitors” just because they disagree with my point of view.
Cite the specific post where I used the word “traitor”.
(don’t cite ‘Hairenakitz’: read my post again and see what I wrote there exactly)
As to the the rest of your questions: I know you are interested.
I am interested in a lot of things also.
{“I couldn’t get over the fact how a mature person would call his fellow Armenians “traitors” just because they don’t agree with his point of view.”}
Raymond:
show me the post where I called a fellow Armenian a “traitor”.
@Avery, I wasn’t referring to you. I was referring to Arman’s comments (read his very first post on this subject).
Every one please be aware of a person called ‘Hairenakitz on YouTube’. This guy is a turkish oriented person. I do remember him from 2 years ago on YouTube creating fights between Armenians on YouTube.
Be well my nation, and may God protects you and Armenia!
@ Arman,
Here we are!
At least I’m signing up with my full Armenian YouTube account to let you know that your childish comments are replied properly!
You amay not be Turkish, but just uneducated kid!
Don’t know who Arman is: if he is who he says he is, I have to meet him some day and bow.
The men who liberated Shushi – a military operation the significance and brilliance of which has not been properly appreciated by the Armenian public at large – are a shining example for generations of Armenian warriors to come.
And all Armenian patriots
But the one posting under ‘Hairenakitz on YouTube’ is definitely up to no good.
Don’t know him from YouTube. Just from AW.
He has posted some stuff @AW that leave no doubt in my mind that he is not on the level.
Not very good at it either: too crude and obvious.
I have seen much more sophisticated Turk operators.
But they all eventually slip and show their true colors.
@Avery, I have read your posts in AW, and I agree with ALL your posts that I have read, and I like how you eloquently explain everything. I believe you are the same Avery since it is a very unique name on AW comments section. But I must say I was pretty surprised when I read your description above about “Hairenakitz on YouTube”. I don’t know him, and this is the first time that I see his posts. But from his posts on this topic alone I cannot find anything to categorize him as “up to no good” as you have. I also remember others accusing you of being an “agitator”, based on a post or two on one article without knowing anything about your other posts… That is the worst thing that one can do… Judging someone without knowing them, and portray them the way Arman is portraying anyone who has expressed their opposition (in a civil way) to what this so called “Armenian Anonymous” is doing.
@ Raymond,
You told all what I had to say to ‘Avery’. Thanks.
Whenever I can I read commentaries and I agree with you about Avery’s eloquent English…. and more or less balanced opinion depending on subject.
Without needing to take this subject further and asses Avery’s “up level” status, I should read his comment regarding ‘Anonymous’ and what he thinks about the eventual damage to Armenian cause!
In addition ‘Avery’ should also answer… if he really thinks that every ‘azatamard’ who fought in liberation of Sushi (beside his appreciated bravery and patriotism) is also a shining example of politically mature and balanced person!
@ Avery,
Let me know more about your maturity and ‘up levels’!
Raymond:
Thank you for those kind words regarding my posts.
On ‘Hairenakitz’: I am willing to be falsely accused of being an “agitator”: I don’t recall being called that, but have been called a lot of other things, including a Crypto-Jew, a Zionist, a Turk, an honorary member of the Three Stooges, and a few other things.
Doesn’t faze me one bit.
For this reason:
When it concerns the Cause (which includes the safety and security of RoA and Artsakh), a high False-Reject rate is just an annoyance. Bruised feelings will heal in no time.
However, any False-Accept rate above 0% is serious concern.
If ‘Hairenakitz’ is a true patriot, he will understand.
But, given what I have read so far in his posts, I stand by my position.
Avery jan.. if you wish to meet Arman I can arrange that… let me know..
Gayane
Arman jan.. Avery is as patriotic as yourself.. He is one person i would trust my life if a Turk or an Azeri EVER enters our lands/home because he will be ready without thinking twice whether or not it will hurt anyone’s feelings or it will be tooooo forward and rude to show resistance…and I respect and love that about him….. you two should absolutely meet…
Gayane
Hayrenakitz.. you are beginning to annoy me with your crudeness and rudeness… i know.. you don’t care.. but i don’t care either…just wanted to express my feelings..
and I stand with Avery about you…
Gayane jan, I do respect and trust you, you know that. I am very proud of you too. I do believe you when you say Avery is an patriotic Armenian. I do not have anything against Avery, I just didn’t like the line he used “I have to meet him some day and bow.” Anyways I rest my case. I do love my fellow Armenians and wish you the best.
Arman:
you misinterpreted the “bow”.
I mean it: no sarcasm.
You’ll see. Soon.
Arman jan.. Avery meant nothing negative by “bow to you”….he truly respects those who fight for justice and will be at the front lines to protect our country.. i can vouch for that..
You will see when you meet him…
Read the following excerpt from the article above, and then go on the internet to see what Megaupload is all about. The article states that they have “shelved” the Armenian Genocide in order to concentrate on Megaupload.
from the article:
“Operation Armenian Genocide (#OpArmGenocide, as it is also called on sites such as Twitter) was “shelved” to focus on Operation ACTA and Operation Megaupload, and it is unclear when it will re-launch.”
Dear Compatriots,
GOOD NEWS!!!
ast night on Al Jazeera,the Chines-African looking pretty Girl interviewing Turkish important personalty(Responsible for EU affiars of great Turkey,forget the name)cornered him at the end.She was mainly for 90% of talk interview conducting it re general issues in Middle East the Arab spring and turkish involvement (tries) etc., At the end MON DIEAUX!!!My God was she smart? curteous and SHORT STACCCATO questions AND INTERVENTIONS, WHEN FOR EXAMPLE SHE BEGAN ABOUT THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE RELATED..
he trying to defed as much as he could..her remarks were real s h o r t 1.5 million?,(well he answered some 650,000 (Armenians murdered massacred i,.e. but als 2 million Turks>>>same old Turkish Delight massals (proverbs, examples made up lies in short…but she was adamant and I hpe someon gets the tape and passess it around.
As to above LATTER DAY HACKERS…
1.Are they Armenian ? this must be varified ,i think that is impossible.someon metioned Asala,but they latter declared officially wat they were doing..nt these people…
Moreover, They may wish to change attitude and try to re formulate their actions not to hurt THIRD AREAS…people/countries and then only TURKISH SO CALLED ITELLECTUALS STILL DEFENDING -LIKE ABOVE EU CHIEF.IN SHORT DISCUSS, DEBATE AND CORNER THEM.THIS IS NOT TIME TO RESORT TO ANY KIND OF HARRASSMENTS,wether by Cyber or otherwise.Talk,debate corner the CULPRIT TO BRING HIM TO JUSTICE!!!
We need to take to “correctional acts” directed to the Adversary ONLY and try to make the CULPRIT TO REPENT AND CONFESS AND FINALLY TO REMEDY THE WRONG DONE TO US BY THEIR ACESTORS and WHY NOT THEM!!! WHO STILL INSIST what they did was just relocations!!!
Best to those who will understand that ….
IT IS TIME TO BE GANDHI LIKE AND DO IT PEACEFULLY!!!!!!
@Avery
I am a member of Armenian Veterans Association which has an office in Glendale. You can come anytime there meet me and to other Artsakh war veterans. So here is a chance for you to bow us.
I will.
@Raymond
Raymond,how old are you? Do you remember when was the Artsakh war? If you don’t, than I tell you; from year 1990 to 1994, more than 18 years ago. So do your calculations and guess how old I can be. I’ll make your job easy; I am in my late 30’s. Does this change something? If I can fight for my country than I can be old enough to express my opinion. No don’t be “hazar madagh indz” be a patriot and love your country. That is what required from a good Armenians.
Just ceruse, are you growing your kids with the mentality of yours? Now I get disappointed.
@Arman, my mistake to responding too quickly without thinking. I just was too upset at your name calling. But just because you have fought in Artsakh doesn’t give you the right to insult people and calling them names. You tell me “be a patriot”. I don’t need you to tell me to be a patriot. Just because you have fought in Artsakh doesn’t make you the only patriot here. You have done your duty, and thank you for that. But stick to what you are good at…
We Armenians are too quick at responding too quickly to other Armenians posts that anger us but we are tooo slow at responding quickly when Turkey is using every manageable tactics to get Armenians divided….where are everyone who is too quick to judge someone who is for fighting for justice???
Don’t forget.. WE NEED people like Arman and Avery who are strong both in minds and words..and will be at the battle field without hesitation… WE need people like Boyajian jan and Mr. Palandjian who have calmer demeanor with very eloquent/nice writing style who get their point across without hurting anyone’s feelings (I will call them writers)… both groups bleed when something bad happens to any of our brothers and sisters, both worry about our country’s existence, our ancestors/history, both group care about our lands and people…. they are all for justice and righteousness but express IN DIFFERENT WAYS…both groups are highly commandable…
there is another category that i don’t even want to get into.. that category includes all the Armenians who dont’ care about their country either way.. those Armenians are just useless.. very unfortunate but we do have them amongst us..
that said…. WE NEED BOTH FIGHTERS AND WRITERS……. we can’t succeed if we don’t have the balance…both groups are much needed…….
So if either one group expresses their views and opinions and in the midts of all that, someone’s feelings get hurt.. understand which category that person falls into… and begin to work together instead of against each other and attacking each other….
We have a common enemy… lets concentrate on that..
“We have a common enemy… lets concentrate on that”
Gayane,
who is your common enemy ? Aztecs ?
NOTATION: to my above post… When I said “We Armenians are too quick to respond to other Armenians posts and not too quick to respond when Turks act/post/comment/etc…….”””” I was referring to those SOME and not ALL Armenians who do.. Just want to make sure I was clear about that…
Necati Xhanum.. I knew denialism is your main career choice… I did not know Comedy was your second side job… stick to what you know best Xhanum.. and that is being a denialist… Comedy or anything else does not suit you…
Gayane Hanim (means ” lady” politely in Turkish) ,
You did not tell me who is your common enemy ?
Hairenakitz:
A few weeks ago Avery was accusing JDA of not being a “real” Armenian. He’ll get bored of it eventually.
Avery: since when do you determine people’s intellectual levels, and their true loyalties and patriotism? You mention a list of the things you have been accused of. Here’s another one: You are a nationalist. You are part of the problem. It was Turkish nationalism that caused the spark that ignited the Armenian genocide. Tell me Avery, I can tell you are an educated man, tell me if you think nationalist mentality like you display will resolve the situation. The AG issue will be solved when Turkey sits down at the table, hat in hand, and gives a genuine, sincere apology followed by long overdue reparation. International pressure will quicken this process. There WILL be compromises, both sides may end up unhappy with the results, but in the end, level headed, moderate people will be the reason the issue is resolved. I may be dead wrong. Time will tell. But I do know what nationalism never solves conflicts, it only creates them.
My post to RVDV did not come through.. but here it is again ..
RVDV- pardon me???? and who gave you the right to express your unwelcomed comment??? you call yourself a Turk but is a Kurd by blood (AGAIN not sure why and I am totally confused about this till this day) is calling one person who is nothing what you described above…
You asked if nationalism will help our cause???? YOU BET YOUR confused butt it will (if it is done and executed in a strong, and organized manner).. It has worked so far.. without it.. we did not have our Artsakh..
So instead of taking the matter into your own hands and accusing someone, WITHOUT being asked directly (Avery was not talking to you and you were nto talking to Avery)… you should decide whether or not you are a true believer in justice and what is right.. just because you recognize Genocide happened it does not give you the right to accuse of one us.. Understand????
Recap: You are always right, I am always wrong. When I said Armenian Nationalists and Turkish nationalists are causing more problems a while back you said something along the lines of “there are no Armenian nationalists, only Armenian patriots.” Talk about consistency. Thank you for saying my comment is unwelcome on this forum- I now have confirmation of what I have always guessed.
Timeline of events involving Anonymous
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_events_involving_Anonymous
This is incredibly absurd. One of the best pieces, Hamparian’s ” We are all Armenians” had 17 comments.
This one so far has 71 comments and counting.
And sadly, most of the comments are irrelevant and personal attacks.
Vart Adjemian
Part 1of2
RVDV:
No, I won’t get bored eventually; I love doing this. I’ll get bored when they “get my keyboard from my cold dead hands”. (channeling Charlton Heston)
{“since when do you determine people’s intellectual levels, “}
Again, show me where I determined people’s intellectual level ?
[in case you are confused about the expression “on the level”, look up what it means]
{“and their true loyalties and patriotism?”}
I don’t: I point out inconsistencies in what people advocate, with what they present themselves to be – and let the other readers decide for themselves.
For example: you say you are a Kurd, and that Turks hanged your great-grandfather. Yet you claim to also be a Turk (not a Turkish citizen, but a Turk), and have defended indefensible Turk actions. This makes no sense to me: if my great-grandfather, innocent of any real crime but actually a heroic humanistic act, was hanged by Turks for saving Armenians, the last thing I would do is defend Turks. (I don’t mean the righteous Turks).
You went out of your way to defend PM Erdogan on his threats against Armenian migrants. (by trying to tell me what he said in 2010 does not apply to 2012: are you serious ?)
You went out of your way to dismiss the well organized, sizable demonstration by European Turks against the French AG Bill: there should have been no demonstration at all if Turks at large want Armenians to stand down. On the contrary, Turks in Europe should have demonstrated side-by-side with Armenians for the Bill. Again, you dismiss that demonstration of Anti-Armenian hate campaign by writing that European Turks were misinformed (or something like that): again, are you serious ?
Yet when one of the Turks (don’t remember if it was John the Turk or Necati Genis) threaten Kurds with deportation, what was you first, honest from the gut, instinctual response ? You did not say they didn’t mean it; you did not invite them for discussion. You wrote something like this “there are 20 million Kurds and 15 million Avelis. Try it, see what happens…” (not exact quote, from my memory). What you were saying is not that you will sit down with Turks to discuss how to go about peacefully arranging an orderly transfer. You were saying – in so many words – that you’ll cut the Turks to pieces if they try: am I correct ?
I believe you also responded to one of the Turks at least once that there will be a free Kurdistan some day whether Turks like or not: Yes or No ?
And yes, you also have written that you believe an Armenian Genocide did take place. On many occasions. Sometimes very strongly.
But, sorry, to me affirmation of the AG by a Turk on these pages means nothing more than an entry ticket: anyone who denies the AG will be attacked from all sides. I know some of my compatriots are ecstatic that Turks do that: not I. Recognition train left the station long time ago. The window has shifted. No brownie points for accepting the AG: it’s like getting accolades for finally admitting the Earth is not flat.
So either you are not sure where you stand, or are playing some kind of a game. Like I wrote above: a high False-Reject rate is no big deal as far as the Armenian Cause is concerned.
Part 2of2
RVDV
And you are “accusing” me of being a Nationalist ? Surely, you jest.
It’s like accusing me of being Armenian: how’s that an “accusation” ? When did I try to hide it ? Armenian Nationalist, am I: you betcha.
I have previously posted the difference between Armenian Nationalists and Turk Nationalists: so won’t repeat it here.
You attempting to equate Armenian and Turk nationalism is like equating the use of a gun by a police officer and that of a criminal.
I have previously also posted the stark behavioural difference between Armenians and AzeriTurks prior and during the war, so won’t repeat that either.
As I wrote a long time ago: knowing what I know about our people at this time in my life, if I was not born an Armenian, I would try to find some way to inject Armenian genes into me. If nothing else, how Armenian people behaved vs how AzerTurks behaved – side by side – prior and during the war should leave no doubt in anyone’s mind what incomparable people we Armenians are.
And most certainly the best of us were exterminated or forcibly erased (1895 – 1923).
Just imagine what would have been if our 2 million were allowed to exist and procreate naturally.
It is still incomprehensible to me, that Gods allowed such magnificent people to be slaughtered like that.
{“tell me if you think nationalist mentality like you display will resolve the situation. “}
Not only (controlled, properly channeled) Armenian nationalist mentality will resolve many of Armenians’ problems, but it demonstrably has.
Armenian nationalist mentality is what saved Artsakh’s Armenians from certain extermination and ethnic cleansing.
The same mentality has allowed Artsakh’s Armenians to live free and secure.
Find a single Artsakhtsi today who wants to go back to living under Azeri rule.
Find one, if you can.
Armenian nationalist mentality – starting with mass demonstrations in Yerevan in 1965 – is what propelled AG to the World stage.
Nobody would have cared otherwise. It did not happen by itself. Armenian nationalists are the ones who did it.
In 1965 almost half the population of Yerevan descended on the streets to demand from the Soviet authorities recognition of the AG.
In defiance of 10s of thousands of Soviet interior ministry troops and KGB armed units. Who do you think were those people ?
(and yeah, my father defied the threats from his university apparatchiks and went).
(The Tsitsernakaberd Armenian Genocide memorial was a direct result of 1965)
Avery: I have not defended any action of unwarranted, unprovoked violence by the Turkish government. Some things however are so black and white. Take Cyprus for example. Nikos Sampson said himself that he would have slaughtered every Turk if Turkey did not invade. I will therefore defend Turkey, because it was justified and necessary- INITIALLY. The outcome of that conflict was more harm than good caused by Turks- taking properties and land from Greeks. THAT I did not and will not defend.
You mention how me recognizing the AG is not enough, it means nothing. I have recongized it, apologized on behalf of my ancestors (even though my great grandfather was hanged for trying to protect Armenians). I have strongly supported Armenian reparations- my only issue on this was that I contested the continuing legality of land claims (Sevres v. Lasuanne etc., we’ve been down this road). I sometimes call out Turkish posters here more harshly than Armenian posters do. There isn’t a huge Armenian population where I live, so my opportunities to extend my support more than on internet forums is limited. What more can I do? And that is a serious question, if there are things you can suggest I can do to help your cause I will do it if I can.
I agree Armenian and Turkish nationalism is not the same thing, but it’s like choosing the lesser evil to me. I would also contest the overall success of it. I don’t mean this to come off as disrespectful and belittleing, but 20 or so countries recognizing the AG after 97 years doesn’t seem like a massive achievement.
Regarding the Erdogan and 2010 2012 thing. All I was trying to say is that a comment made in 2010 cannot be as “retalitation” for the French bill in 2012. Is this Back to the Future??
Regarding my ethic make up that seems to be such a problem. You see, my people do not have a country. And it looks like we will have one in Iraq in the near future. Therefore, instead of continuing the bloodshed with Turks, I opted to be the bigger person and let my hate go in most things. My family was also very assimilated to Turkish culture, so it’s not as if I ever really felt Kurdish anyways. If my grandparents who suffered great discrimination, persecution, and oppression can get over it and not harbor hatred, I can too.
Avery,
RVDV, and some others, have gone far more than half-way to show respect to Armenians, to affirm the truth of the Genocide, and to show agreement with what many of us know and believe. I applaud him. I don’t agree with him about everything, but he is a breath of fresh air. It would be great more if more like him posted here. I might learn a lot, esp. about how Turkey is changing.
I would like to see him and others like him keep posting, so you might restrain your less hospitable instincts once in a while if you agree. This really should not be the JDA and Avery Board.
We all get that you are the most Armenian person alive this side of David Hedison, Cher and Ross Baghdassarian. Now will you give the rest of us a break?
On the issue of nationalism, it’s a meaningless term. It certainly is not the same thing as being Armenian.
Positive nationalism to me means promotion of history, culture, homeland and political goals. It threatens nobody.
Negative nationalism is the kind which reduces one’s Armenian and non-Armenian opponents to essentialist and racist epithets and stereotypes. No part of the Armenian cause requires us to demean Turks or anyone else. I don’t know how many Armenian ancestors you had that raised you, but I had two grandparents, one of whom lived through the Hamidian massacres as a child, the other lost six brothers and sisters in Smyrna. They raised me half time.
They did not hate Turks, and used to say the Turks were our best men, referring to weddings.
Saying that your politics is the same as your being Armenian is absurd. Armenians have a rich culture with much in common with, and much that is distinctive from our neighbors. You can be very Armenian without being political.
RVDV– this ONE sentence alone “20 or so countries recognizing the AG after 97 years doesn’t seem like a massive achievement.” tells me that you are just wayyy behind and is about to miss the train….. THAT sentence alone tells me that you have not read one shred of communication about WHY WHY WHY Armenians have not been active and forecful about Genocide and demanding our wealth back 10+ years ago… I am not going to get into t again.. if you want to know why we don’t have the ENTIRE WORLD supporting us in the last 97 years, then go back to our old posts and read it.. you will find the answer there…but don’t worry we will get there..
However, it is BECAUSE OF OUR NATIONALISM that we got those 20 countries and then some to recognize the Genocide.. it is BECUASE OF OUR NATIONALISM that we have brought this matter on the surface.. would not you and all others who are still confused about their own identity love to see Armenians be the loyal mullet like they were in the Ottoman era.. to close our mouths, be nice, and follow orders.. Well those days are gone RVDV… and Turkey will never see them happy days they saw in the Ottoman Era.. We have a new generation with full of nationalism in their hearts and soul… and that alone is ONE BIG WIN over Turkish and Azeri cowards…
and one more thing.. from what did you conclude that our nationistic characteristics are evil?? (even you graciously bestowed us with “less evil” please do share…
Also you mentioned you support ARmenians and our cause but yet you say things sometimes that puts doubts in our mind.. hence, why i don’t have the complete trust in your intentions.. that is just me… and my OWN opinion.. just want to make sure I am clear on that..
thank you
I don’t mind and have no problem with RVDV to share his thoughts and express his opinions however I DO HAVE a problem when he flat out disrespects one of us without any direct solicitation from the person or anyone on that matter… when one attacks another’s character, then he will be replied and with stronger and harsher tone..
Therefore, Avery’s response to RVDV is very justifiable..
JDA … nationalism to my mind is to have very strong love and respect for your country..nationalism to my mind is not to cave into threats, and stand up to those who either pretend or simply reject Armenian history, culture, Genocide and our nation period… YOU DO NOT HAVE to be politically charged to be considered nationalist…… Armenian nationalism is just that… Turkish nationalism is totally a different animal… If you are Armenian, you are a nationalist to some degree.. because you care about your country’s well being and survival…you care about stopping lies and denialism…. of course this is how I see Armenian nationalism
I agree with Gayane. That sentence struck me as unfortunate, RVDV. I’ll accept your empathy for the Armenian Cause at face value, but that one comment shows me that you could stand to get some information before passing judgement on the pace of our struggle for justice. You obviously still don’t fully understand the level of devastation that was heaped upon my nation by your beloved Turkey, followed immediately by 70 years of Sovietization. Let me borrow from the old phrase ‘to walk a mile in a man’s shoes’…etc., and suggest that you walk the miles to Der Zor before you criticize or negatively evaluate what Armenians have accomplished “in 97 years.” This pace, which you consider unimpressive, is in itself evidence of just how close to gone we Armenians were and what an uphill struggle we are waging to regain what was lost.
Seriously, do some research, speak to some descendants of genocide victims, find out what nightmares were reawakened in Karabagh, and open your mind and heart before you make such ill-informed statements.
Boyajian, Gayane: I had a feeling you would take it the wrong way which is why I said “I don’t mean this to sound disrespectful and belittling.” It wasn’t an insult that I tried to discretely sneak into my post.
Boyajian: “Seriously, do some research”- I have…. “speak to some descendants of genocide victims”- I actually lived with some when my family first moved to the US… “find out what nightmares were reawakened in Karabagh”- I imagine the stories are similar to AG. “and open your mind and heart before you make such ill-informed statements.”- Again, I didn’t mean to come off as cold an ignorant. I’m not saying Armenians have not made huge strides, but looking at the numbers simply isn’t a success in my mind. I think you are right, it does show how close Armenians were to being gone.
JDA- Thank you for the reply. I appreciate it.
@jda,
Thank you for your thorough and correct assessment about Armenians, Turks, Kurds and our immediate neighbours in general, including our friend RVDV here.
I do not agree with self-appointed judges, such as Avery and Gayane!
We do not need ‘Negative Nationalism’ as you well said.
Apres.
Dear Raymond,
Don´t be upset.Some are -without thinking twice-saying things here that they should not.Arman is agood guy -I hope-he will also understand what you say…after all WEALL ARE ARMENIANS.You see Arman I was-happened to be in Yerevan-in ´92 when at the Artsakh house(then existed) two Surhandags came in and quite upset saying that the omonAzeris are evicting some 30,000 Armenians from Shahumian…I was so much moved that I took all I had in my pockets some $350.=(nothing important of course) and handed to them to …help these evaquees…anyhow then i also had prior to that helped ship 3 tons of Cacao and 2.7 tons concentrated soups (that I begged and received from Euro factories) and shipped free of charefge by AIR TO LENINAKAN.Mind yiou these companies asked for receipts and aFTER THAT i FLEW INTO YEREVAN IN 1989(RIGHT AFTER EARTHQUAKE9 AND SINCE THESE WERE TO BE DISTRIBUTED THROUGH bLUE CROSS(EQUIVALENT OF hAY oKNUTYAN mIUTYUN (THE dASHNAG OFFSHOOT) AND THE OTHER BY ETCHMIAdznaga Paris Branch both produced receipts stating distributed to the Earthquake stricken there…
Then I had also helped >habitat for Humanity in yerevan,. the Artsakh (X) etc., friend of mine once chided me saying gaytzag say it write about what you do ,otherwise hiow are we to GUESS(gRAHEL) WHAT YOU HAVE DONME FOR hAYASTAN AND aRMENITY…sINCE THEN i DO WRITE .iT IS ALSO IN MY BOOK RE MORE THAN ABOVE.THE BOOK ENTITLED ¨arcagahayrenaseri muh husheren¨¨that is sold in noyan tapan store Republic Square and artbridge Cafe Abovian st.proceeds from sale to hanicapped childrens Centre at Avan arinj..Yerevan..
Thence One more MUHC MORE IMPORTANT THAN MY VERY MODEST ABOVE CONTRIBUTION LISTEN TO THIS!!!
I AM INVITED TO LUNCHEON IN l.a. BY eDITPOR OF usaRMENIA eDITOR aPPO, 15 OR MORE YRS AGO. qUITE A FEW INTELLECTUALS THERE,.oN MY LEFT SIDE hARUT sASSOUNIAN AND RIGHT SIDE PRES, OF mOSCOW aRMENIANS cULTURAL association. wHEN i ASK HIM DO YOU KNOW x IN mOSCOW(MY COUSIN) HE SITS UP..WHO DOES NOT IN mOSCOW.HARUT OVERHEARING THIS SAYS ¨¨HABA INCHU CHIU YERTAR HAYASTAN??
answer comes. HARGELI PARON nA(X) AVELI OKDAGAR E HAIRENIKIN Moskvayitz…no more question—–
so ios the Armenian Bortkoumner without any harm of course.
We must therefore put the cards on the table converse, exchange ideas ,debate(in civil manner) and dispute etc., always to the benefit of our people.Finally please forgive me fior very fast typing I am old and alwasy think ,Time is more than gold for me…
read me where I write on WORDSA THEN PLACE ON WEB SITE..of good young peoplelk of L.A. who own the site..www.armeniannews.info
Top left side corner marked as Ussers Articles…
Soon I hope I can start writing in Armenian (first learning what Fonts,easy ones ) how to use them otherwise more than a half dozen my Armenian articles from Yerevan have been published in Hairenik weekly,but these I dictated to young ladies there who wrote for me on Words(internet9 and emailed to me and on to Editorial offices of AW
best to all Hayortis,or even half Armenians
‘Anonymous’ Launches Operation Armenian Genocide.
This was the title of this article.
Folks, all comments should have been related to express your PRO-CONTRO opinion toward ‘Anonymous’ action regarding Armenian Genocide recognition (if any) as highligted in this article, with some reasons to why one is PRO or CONTRO. . Nothig more, nothing less.
Forget about your own biographies.
Just tell if you agree/oppose with Anonymous’s meddling with AG recognition or not!
And don’t over-react with opposition to your opinions!
Let’s see this forums overall opinion.
This is my collection of this forum’s Pro/Contro verdict about Anonymous’s AG operation launch:
If there is any mistake please correct!
1- Boyajian (Contro)
2- Perous (Contro)
3- Gayane (Pro)
4- Anonymous (Contro)
5- Reymond (Contro)
6- Hairo (Contro)
7- Random Armenian (Contro)
8- Mike Vartan (Contro)
9- RVDV (Contro)
10- Arek (Contro)
11- Zeke (Pro)
12- John (Pro)
13- Hairenakitz on YouTube (Contro)
14- Armenian Youth (Pro)
15- Arman (Pro)
16- Victor (Contro)
17- Hay (Contro)
18- Avery (Pro)
19- Gaytzag Paladjian (Contro)
20- Silva MD-Poetry (None)
21- Vart Adjemian (None)
——–
13 people are ‘Contro’
6 peope are ‘Pro’
2 people ‘None’
Hence, Aononymous’s action are rejected by majority of this forum.
Մնաք բարով, մինչեւ միւս անգամ:
Hairenakitz.. you don’t have to see the forums overall opinion.. because you already know.. STOP trying to create more choas than you did already…
have a nice day and i for one don’t really care what you want to see…
We don’t need you or anybody else to tell us what to post.
We post what we want: biographies, short stories, recipes, poems: whatever we want.
Management of ArmenianWeekly decides what gets published.
We were doing fine long before you showed up, and will do fine long after you are gone. Have no doubt.
We can post whatever we want Hairenakitz..this is an open public forum… it is not up to you to direct us and tell us what to post and what not to post..
Thank you
Gayane
@ ‘Avery’ & ‘Gayane’ jaaaaaaans
You both, have shown your ‘to the levels’
My be ‘AW’ is where ….you both mature up!
Personally, intellectually and politically!
@ Armenian Weekly admin.
Please DO NOT unfairly discriminate and let comments through!
Thanks.
After all I’m very pleased to see Armenian maggiority’s COMMON SENSE always overcomes that outspoken small extremist minority who shout louder than their numbers!
@Avery and @Gayane
Don’t you think you two are going overboard with your immatruities?
Do you both think you can talk for all?
Stay within your own boundaries and let everybody to express his/her own views about all comments/commentators including ‘Hairenakitz on YouTube’, who rightfully kept his/her comments within the main subject of this article and rightfully objected unknown foreign interference in Armenian cause.
I too, do not approve hacktivist ‘Anonymous’ to interefere with AG, while their main hacking activities are so loose and irrelevant to us!
Here we go “Hairenakitz on YouTube” tries to divide Armenians into two groups. This guy or girl has no creditability. He lost it 2-3 years ago on YouTube. Ignore this turk.
@ Anonymous February 6, 2012
You are not everybody, you have no name so you can’t have an opinion. More over you can’t talk for everybody. I am a part of everybody, and like to know what is your opinion about AG? Did it happen? We haven’t heard your thoughts about this so we don’t know who you are.
Anonymous- please point out WHERE in any of our posts forced anyone from expressing their opinions…… if you can, then I will say my apologies..it was not my intent.. BUT if you can’t.. then YOU OWE US an apology for wrongly accusing us for something we have not done..
As far as I can remember.. I state MY OWN OPINION and your beloved Hayrenakitz has been doing the same except HE took the initiative to tell US we should stop with our biographies and get back to the topic.. our response to him was to stop dictating what posters want to post on these forums because this is PUBLIC AND OPEN FORUM.. and subject to have any topic that we want to share and express…
if you don’t agree with the group’s purpose, then that is your right.. and no one stopping you..but your tone is not appreciated at all….. ..
Hairenakitz.. you made no sense whats so ever….
@ ‘Avery’ & ‘Gayane’ jaaaaaaans
You both, have shown your ‘to the levels’
My be ‘AW’ is where ….you both mature up!
Personally, intellectually and politically!
Now try to say this in plain English so i can understand and maybe take under consideration because I am not mature in all counts…..
because as you bestowed yourself to be wayyyy too mature for us and wayyy too intelligent in all counts, I can’t wait for your next disrespectful comment..
Avery
“”Recognition train left the station long time ago.””
Trust me your train will have to come back if you have anything to do with turkey
@john the turk,
‘Recognition train left the station long time ago’, toward the wilderness of Turkish station, but as you can see on daily news, rail tracks are ransacked by Turkish government before train reaches Turkish humanity!
But, we assure you eventually train will reach the destination and will return with Turks in it who joined the humanity.
RVDV:
{“I have recongized it, apologized on behalf of my ancestors (even though my great grandfather was hanged for trying to protect Armenians).”}
Unlike some of my compatriots, I see no necessity for an individual such as yourself to apologize for the AG. You are not a Turkish government official; you are a private citizen. In my thinking, it is no strike against you if you don’t: it is nice that you and others do, but absolutely unnecessary in my way of thinking. If an adult in my family went nuts and killed somebody, why should I apologize for his actions ? I had nothing to do with it: I would definitely do everything to try to help the victim’s family, would say something like “sorry for your loss….”, but would not apologize for something I had no control over.
You ask what more can you do ?
OK: you asked, so I will give you some ideas. You decide.
1.Visit TodaysZaman and/or Hurriyet regularly, post under RVDV, identify yourself as a Kurd/Turk and counterpost to Anti-Armenian comments.
There is a constant AG-Denial presence: you won’t get bored.
(I have not seen you there)
2 Donate to Armenian charitable organizations that help RoA residents.
Armenia Fund: builds infrastructure in RoA and Artsakh (watermains, roads, schools, hospitals).
http://www.armeniafund.org/
If that one is a little too sensitive for you, then the following are completely neutral:
Armenia Eyecare project.
http://www.eyecareproject.com/
They provide eyecare to needy Armenian families.
Armenia Tree Project
http://www.armeniatree.org/
They plant shade and fruit trees in Armenia (probably Artsakh too)
There are a lot of orgs that provide for elderly, orphans, and such; but I am not familiar with them.
There are many fly-by-nights also, so I don’t want to list a bunch of names.
The ones I listed are legit.
I would like to add to the list Avery provided to RVDV…
RVDV, you can also help out with SOAR (The Society for Orphaned Armenians Relief).. The website is http://www.soar-us.org/
They have many chapters throught and if you want to launch an office in your area, you can do so… IF you are that genuinely interested in helping out…
Let us know how it goes.. I would love to hear about your endeavors trying to help out Armenians in any way you can as you said…
Gayane
Thanks for the suggestions, although I was thinking more along the lines of support for Armenian groups in the US trying to get genocide recognition passed, ANCA etc. But I will definitely look into the places you recommended.
RVDV.. Avery provided you an avenue to get your point across and your support as you openly shared .. go to Turkish and Azeri sites and post on those sites what you have shared here.. …
JDA
You would be much more angry if my all comments have been posted. Unfortunately, I am unable exchange my views properly.
J The Turk says… “unfortunately I am unable exchange my views properly”… well then why don’t you start doing it so your comments can be posted.. just a thought…
Side Note: even though your comments are being blocked because they probably contain absurd denialists opinions and probably idiotic accusations, AW does not discriminate against any poster.. my own comments have not be posted from time to time.. but in your case J The Turk.. I am not too dissapointed because you can”t exchange your nonsense with us…
Have a nice day sir..
Gayane
J the Turk… Trust me you are in denial…
Well I hope he knows how to swim.
Get it? Denial, The Nile.
No? Not funny? Nevermind then.
{“We all get that you are the most Armenian person alive this side of David Hedison, Cher and Ross Baghdassarian. Now will you give the rest of us a break?”} (addressing Avery)
jda:
Thanks for the suggestion, but I disrespectfully decline your offer.
You and everybody else are free agents and can extend, or not, whatever welcome mat they deem appropriate to RVDV and other KurdTurks, Turks, AzeriTurks or anybody else: I have no say in it.
As noted in another post: there is one, and only one, arbiter of what, who and how often one gets published: ArmenianWeekly.
If and when AW decides to block most of my posts, I’ll get the message and go away. Until then, you just have to grin and bear it.
And don’t be too quick to criticize my approach: you upbraided me for being rough on Turk-oglu AzeriTurk Kerim-Bey, and later apologized – to your credit – for trusting him and extending the welcome mat, perhaps prematurely.
{“Jda
January 25, 2012
Kerim,
I owe an apology.
But not to you.
I owe it to those i criticized for not treating you politely since you admit the AG.
The things you say are appalling.”}
@Avery
Nice tacticts Avery,
Very astute, but selfish!
As you noted in most of your postings ‘there is one, and only one, arbiter of what, who and how often one gets published: ArmenianWeekly.
In your selfish mind, you’re satisfied when most of your ‘immature and disrespectful’ comments can get through by naming “Armenian Weekly Management”!
Good on you!
Avery,
Can you please explain what you mean when you use the term “Turk-oglu”? Because it’s coming across as a slur and and insult when you use it. There seem to be a meaning to this phrase that’s only clear to you and not to other readers.
I have to agree with other readers that you do great work when dispensing facts to counter deniers and haters, but sometimes the way you treat other Armenians and odars here, strikes me as bullying. And this appears to be triggered very easily.
Random:
‘oglu’ means ‘the son of’: it is no more a slur than the honorific ‘Bey’ I have used. So Turk-oglu means ‘son of Turk people’: many of the Denialists use Anglo-Saxon names, e.g. ‘Robert’, to give the impression they are neutral 3rd parties, but then subtly start promoting Denialist views.
I call them e.g. ‘Turk-oglu Robert’ to let them know that the jig is up and it is not appreciated.
When I post @TodaysZaman, I make a point to indicate I am Armenian – so there is no doubt who or what I am. I don’t pretend to be Scandinavian and then proceed to argue Armenian viewpoints.
Here are some actual Turkic names: I am sure if it was a slur, it would not be part of the legal name of these famous individuals.
Azerbaijan
Heydar Alirza oglu Aliyev, (current Azeri president’s father)
Ilham Heydar oglu Aliyev, (means Ilham, son of Heydar)
Abulfaz Qadirqulu oglu Aliyev (aka Abulfaz Elchibey)
Turk politicians.:
Kemal Kılıçdaroğlu (apparently some time ago Turks stopped using the dash)
Fatma Ekenoğlu
Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu
Regarding your feeling that I am ‘bullying’: you and I have different worldviews.
Sorry you feel that way, but there is no gray area for me when it comes to AG.
Try going to some Jewish site, post under ‘Random Armenian’, question the veracity of the Jewish Holocaust. See if you get ‘bullied’ or not.
Tell us about your experience.
Avery,
I know what ‘oglu’ means! It is your use of it that comes across as a slur since you have directed it repatedly at posters that everyone knows to be a Turk. I don’t think you know how you come across sometimes.
“Try going to some Jewish site, post under ‘Random Armenian’, question the veracity of the Jewish Holocaust. See if you get ‘bullied’ or not.
Tell us about your experience.”
Armenian posters who have criticized you, including myself have made a distinction between your justified takedowns of outright denialism in this forum. And we support you. And you are not the only one who are engaged in countering the denials!!! It is your occasional overreaction that is the issue and you have attacked fellow Armenians over small disagreements. In your comment i quoted above, you either missed this point or you’re deliberately ignoring it.
This is my opinion.. I would not worry about occassional overaction of Armenians about other Armenians and concentrate on Turkophiles and denialists who as we all know can be harsher, relentless, crude, and if not stopped on their tracks …on going…..
Armenians who occassionally overact have the right to do so.. as long as it is justified and not intentional… Just because one has an Armenian name, it does not mean they are immunce from critisizm. but like I said.. no matter what happens between us, at the end of the day.. if we are fighting for a common cause, then we will reunite and continue to fight..
So instead of getting our feelings hurt by occassional overactions, lets get over that and shift our efforts more on the common enemy (TURKISH DENIALISM and yes even Armenian indifference)… just my opinion…
Avery, I don’t always agree with you or the way you express yourself, but I appreciate your doggedness…even when you used it to question me and my approach in the past. It’s like cyber-knife surgery, pin-pointing and attacking cancer cells before they have a chance to grow. Your message, like strong medicine, doesn’t always go down easy. But I think I understand your goal.
I like to try to save the ‘strongest medicine’ for the really dangerous viruses and spare as many ‘good cells’ as we can. In-fighting among Armenians has long been a detriment to our community. Nowadays, Armenians come from all parts of the globe and bring with them experiences which cause us to diverge and converge at different points along the path of what it means to be Armenian. I appreciate the open forum the AW provides, where I can hear from all types, and formulate, alter or reinforce my own opinions. The conversation is important and allows people to express themselves, hear other’s opinions and reevaluate if necessary. Just my opinion.
Avery,
You and i are both free to our lunatic habits. When you attack a racist Turk or any enemy of Armenians or any plain old racist, I don’t much care since, like our friend Kerim, they have it coming.
I do think it is childish to attack Turks or Azeris for their ethnicity, though.
On the other hand when you go beyond simple disagreement with people who are otherwise respectful – such as RVDV – you make me look bad as an Armenian.
Your posts reflect hypervigilance, which is considered a personality disorder. After all, you accused me of being a Turk imposter merely because I said something about how Turks were not genetically much different than us.
Armenians feel welcome to post here, We don’t have to worry about that. But when you treat Turkish or Azeri ethnicity as if it were something to be ashamed of, you might make them feel unwelcome. Picture a 14 year old Ayse Gunaysu who might be made to feel unwelcome by your oglutizing and Beying.
Let’s stand together in opposing our enemies, but extend words of welcome to potential friends.
@Jda
You said: “Armenians feel welcome to post here, We don’t have to worry about that.”
I would say: Not always, given Avery’s and Gayane’s inolerable load voice!
Let’s see if they understand this!
Let’s stand together in opposing our enemies, but extend words of welcome to potential friends.
I am sorry JDA but I disagree with your post to Avery..
RVDV has been better behaved than most; however he slips from time to time which brings to question the true motives of his existance on these pages.. like Avery said.. RVDV has not posted on any of the Turkish sites promoting justice and expressing his disagreement there… why???…
He pretends he did not mean to say this or that but if he knew what he says will ignite reaction, and if he is so inclined to understand Armenians, then he should be a bit careful as to what he puts in black and white…like “only 20 countries have recognized in 97 years.. among other things over time…
Like I said.. I am open for him to share and express his opinions and thoughts but if he attacks one of us, he will get what he deserves… a reply with a harsher tone… whether it sits well with some or not, that their is problem…we all have our own styles… but it is no more or less not related to anyone else’s style…
I really do respect you because I love your strong comments with strong facts to those who deny or manipulate the system.. but sometimes your reaction to an Armenian who has as much strength, intelligence and balls like you, is very surprising to me..really surprising….just my own opinion…you may agree or disagree…
I am also confused at the statement where you talked about attacking someone because of ethnicity.. i dont’ recall attacking anyone because of his ethnicity.
I think your address of working with each other should go to Hayrenakitz and people who think like him, someone who appeared no where and works very hard to put a divide among us by acting like he is the one driving this discussion by dictating who can post what, and go as far as to give us who is pro and who is con.. that shows he has an itch.. but for what?? why??? lets ask him because he has experience in this .. he did the same thing on You Tube few years ago… maybe he gets off by stirring things up.. who knows???
gayane
Not only you are an attorney, a police officer, a mind reader, but you now have acquired the ability to psychoanalyze me remotely. You are an amazing man.
Again, I disrespectfully decline your offer: I do not stand together with people who attack Armenians like me while at the same time defending AzeriTurks like Kerim.
You were all buddy-buddies with Kerim, until he slipped-up and showed his true colors: then you turned on him. Don’t pretend. I had figured who and what he was long before you had an inkling.
“…you make me look bad as an Armenian”: you actually wrote that ?
And you keep bringing up Ms. Gunaysu. Stop it already.
I know who she is. I have met her personally.
I heard her speak personally. She said things about her life’s journey, her personal sacrifice, that are not mentioned in her articles. The courage she possesses and the depth of her conviction is like nothing I have seen.
She will be recognized some day by Turks as their own Rosa Parks.
The day they do, the nightmare Turks have been living under will end.
Well said JDA. I know at times exchanges may get heated, and we all may say things harsher than necessary due to momentary anger. My comment to Avery that got this all started for example, I could worded it in a better way, because looking back on it, it looks very hostile- and my purpose here has never been to create conflict.
These are your words Avery: “But, sorry, to me affirmation of the AG by a Turk on these pages means nothing more than an entry ticket: anyone who denies the AG will be attacked from all sides.” And.. “No brownie points for accepting the AG”
I’m not a politician, I’m not accepting AG to gain popularity among Armenians. When I apologized it was as much for you as it was for myself. Believe it or not, we Turks (you can call me Kurd-oglu Turk if that makes it easier to discern my ethnic make up) can also feel shame, remorse, guilt. Some of don’t look back on the AG with pride at what our noble ancestors did. You find my apology unnecessary, fine, I’ve done my part, you can accept it or say it’s unnecessary, makes no difference to me. I just thought that after all the hate denialist Turks spew on this forum, it might make you feel better, stronger to know that there are people, in growing numbers, on the other side that can see the truth in the midst of the Empire of Lies known as the Republic of Turkey.
And Gayane: In case you don’t see my comment above:
“My post to RVDV did not come through.. but here it is again ..
RVDV- pardon me???? and who gave you the right to express your unwelcomed comment???”
Forgive me, I believe as a US citizen, my government gives me that right. Are you still sure you don’t hate “all Turks?” And “unwelcomed”? There have been Armenian posters who have posted things disagreeing with you, Avery, and others. Did you refer to any of your fellow Armenians comments as “unwelcome”? You know, for someone who insists they do not hate all Turks, you have a funny way of showing it sometimes.
RVDV— here is my last comment to you and this will be it..
As I said before.. I have a problem with you disrespecting an ARmenian and attacking his character…period…you were NOT being disrespectful like that by him or any of us…were you??? . so taking that into your hands and calling him a problem is not your call.. what goes on between us ARmenians is none of your business either.. no matter how much we go off at each other, we know that at the end of the day, we will stick with each other (minus few ) and fight together… please don’t worry yourself about that… this is a forum.. we may agree and disagree on many points.. but we do not attack each other intentionally or without a just cause…your attack was unjust.. and it was not just on Avery but all those who believe like him… and that is a problem..now you may think you have the freedom to speak your mind… that is great.. you do but if you get an answer back.. then don’t feel bad.. because I myself a citizen of US have the right to reply to you.. so there.. hope we are clear on that..
I will see you on the TUrkish and Azeri sites.. can’t wait to fight the denialism with you against your compadres… lets see what you made out of and how much you care to support our cause..
thank you and have a nice day RVDV
RVDV— please show me a post/comment/ or anywhere I said I hate ALL TURKS.. please do.. because if I did.. I will apologize right now…
What I can’t stand (MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION.. for those who jump at every opportunity to say that I talk for everyone) those who pretend to be on the right side, yet say things (meant it or not) that raises eyebrows… but I can assure you I never said or implied that i hate ALL TURKS..
and you bringing up “There have been Armenian posters who have posted things disagreeing with you, Avery and others” is a cheap shot and has nothing to do what occured here.. we can disagree and agree.. that is the character of this beast called open public forum…. but we do not disrespect each other on purpose…
in any case…please don’t apologize to make us happy.. we are not looking for pity.. you continue fighting for justice and spreading truth if that is what you truly are trying to do and not only on our pages but on Turkish and Azeri pages as well…
Take care..
Gayane,
Thank you for your post. My aunt is named Gayane, so it is not only a beautiful name, but it is also a meaningful one for me.
I agree that Avery is talented and committed. But i think he sometimes attacks people, including me, in ways that discourage exchange and debate. When i wrote some things he disputed he thought i was a Turk. Not good.
Anyway, i know that he will keep posting, I just ask him to view the Turks who are respectful as guests we should make feel welcome no matter how strongly we
disagree.
Ay what?? Gray who?? what are these? funny expressions???
Ah, I forgot to say where I stand on Anonymous.
I support the maggiority and opt to reject such group’s intervention, as I deem detrimental to Armenian cause.
So, Hairenakitz count me too. Thanks
@ Hayk,
You are counted my friend. Thanks.
most of you here in AW dont want so-called hackers to attack Turkish websites because you know they are so weak against our teams such as Ay Yıldız Team and GrayHatz …
i challenge from here to you all ..try and see..the next day “super marios” attamp anything against us , there will be no AW online.. :)
Necati,
Grow up will ya?
We’re not afraid of some script kiddie groups we’ve never even heard of. It has to do about the better way to deal with our common history.
I can’t believe I’m even responding this.
Gayane Hanım,
i think you have heard GrayHatz. (remember Valerie Boyer website ?) :)
BTW: You did not tell me who is your common enemy yet.
Again.. Ay who? Gray what???
Necati XHANUM.. refraim from calling me Hanum.. I am not Turkish. .I am Armenian and there is no such word in the Armenian language….. So if you are trying to address me in your synical way, address me using the proper word in Armenian…
Stupid questions don’t deserve answers..and If you have not figured out who are our enemy then you are a lost cause… let me remove one from the list so you don’t think too hard otherwise it may affect your brain cells…. ORDINARY TURKISH PEOPLE ARE NOT OUR ENEMIES…
Take care and spread the word on the criminals you call Ay who? Gray what??? It is hillarious how happy you get when you speak of groups and opinions that are nothing but destructions, threats, and disrespectful…you must have some emotional matters you need to seek help for Necati Xhanum.. it is not normal.. but then again.. …………..
Gayane
“ORDINARY TURKISH PEOPLE ARE NOT OUR ENEMIES..”
i know
ORDINARY TURKISH PEOPLE = “we are all ermeni ”
for you.
but i am not an ermeni but a Turk who Boyajian described before.
so, am i your enemy ?
For me humans are classified into two types:
Who possess humanity genetically
and who doesn’t have any cells of humanity
genetically as well…
Full stop…
SP
Sylva
“”For me humans are classified into two types:
Who possess humanity genetically
and who doesn’t have any cells of humanity
genetically as well…
Full stop…””
Do you mean that I have nothing to be blamed because it is my genetic which creates disorders? or Are we supposed to blame you because you are a scientist and you know what my genetic problem is but do nothing and only talking
@ john the turk,
Silva meant that ‘The genetics play a maggior role in people’s and even animal’s behaviour’ beside their upbringings.
Regarding Turks in general, certainly there are also good examples of humanity, such as, Orhan Pamuk, Taner Akcam and many others who did have courage to deny genetics could effect their humanity.
RVDV and those of you who are quick at jumping and condemning some of us– here is a chance for you to go and post as much as you want to your heart’s content..i expect all of you to go on this site and express your thoughts as strongly as you have on our this forum..
It is in todayszaman—- ARMENIAN PLACE OF WORSHIP BEING DEMOLISHED..
http://www.todayszaman.com/news-270446-malatya-municipality-
demolishes-armenian-place-of-worship.html
happy writing…
Here is a copy of a letter I sent to TZ in April. My real name included.
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 10:34 PM
To: Zeki Gülen
Subject: News
I contacted you a few days ago about your writers including their own opinions in non opinionated articles. New articles this week, the same biased crap your newspaper continues to put out. Just so you know, I will keep sending these emails until you respond, you should be ashamed of calling yourselves a “news” network.
Onur Yildirim
RVDV— that is great but it does not really condemn your countrymen of doing anything wrong.. I can’t tell why you wrote the letter and what was your reason..
it does not refer to anything Armenian or denial…
and when you post on Turkish and Azeri’ websites.. use your Turkish name.. RVDV does nto really tell anyone who you are…
thank you
Gayane
Those who criticize the likes of me, Gayane, and like minded for our uncompromising stance re the Armenian Cause: read Mr. Sassounians article, then tell us again how we are wrong and you are right.
http://armenianweekly.com/2012/02/07/sassounian-armenians-need-to-pursue-their-cause-with-more-confidence-and-commitment/
some excerpts:
{“It was not an easy struggle, but I am happy to report that Armenian activists prevailed in both campaigns.
It is noteworthy that such apathetic individuals not only fail to offer any assistance or encouragement, but go to great lengths to discourage those who are furthering the interests of the community. Interestingly, those who sit on their hands are usually the ones who complain the most about others who are serving the common cause.”}
Arman:
this one is you and your warrior buddies: {“Imagine if 20 years ago the small band of Armenian freedom fighters had listened to such naysayers and decided that it was not possible to liberate Artaskh (Karabagh) from Azeri and Soviet occupation forces!”}.
{“Armenians can go forward only when they purge themselves of their self-defeating attitude and subservient mentality, left over from centuries of Ottoman Turkish subjugation and servitude.”}
Thank you Mr. Sassounian.
Repeat: “Purge themselves of their self-defeating attitude and subservient mentality (Ստրկամտություն), left over from centuries of Ottoman Turkish subjugation and servitude”
I say print this page and put it on your wall next to Hamparian’s “We are all Armenians”.
I don’t recall seeing posts by Armenians who criticized you for your stands on issues. I haven’t. I have criticized you for the voice of your posts, which to me is unrelated to the issues. It’s your manners which i find deficient, not your expression of your ideas.
And as for Gayane, I have only praise and admiration because she expresses herself with love for her people and culture first last and always. Plus she never said i was not Armenian.
Avery jan.. indeed a very encouraging article by Mr. Sassounian… glad to know there is support behind those of us who won’t cave in and continue the fight no matter how much we get discouraged and put down…
Gayane
JDA… appreciate your post to me..I too praise your strong, frank and to the point approach as I understand you care about our existance as well…
however, to me Avery is no different than how you see me… we have different styles yes, (have to be honest with you.. his intelligence and knowledge about alot of things are above and beyond of what I know)..many times his approach how he writes/speaks ( that few here got all worked up about and overacted because their feelings got hurt) is needed and required……and I like that…
but we are on the same platform… he posseses everything and then some what most of those Armenians who hide behind their apologist curtains lack… and I praise him for that.. we need more of Avery and less of them apologists… and hope that one day sooner or later, ALL of us will unite.. because only then we can win our everything back..
God Bless
deletion in progress 24/7
@ john the turk,
Not just your or other Turks.
50% of my comments specially ‘replies’ to couple of Armenians here were outright deleted.
Though not acceptable to me, but compared with Turkish Hurriyet, 99% delition seems OK.
Doesn’t it?
Stop your whining J the Turk… You denialists sure love to whine about anything don’t you???
Every one of us experience deletion.. you are nto that special.. get over it…
Normally, i dont talk directly to unknown Armenians such like youtube one.
But it seems a duty for me now.
AW is the most fascist censoring “newspaper” i have ever met. even stricter that chinese media.
yesterday, it is toooooo funny, they deleted one sentence of my 2 sentence post…
Todays zaman and Hurriyet seems only censoring us Turkish patriots but no censor for armenians and kurds.
i remember Avery once said same.
Aweee. Necati Xhanum’s feelings are hurt AW? Why did you delete one sentence out of her post AW? Don’t you see she gets offended …. that is not right… not right at all..
Hmmm.. i wonder what we should do to make Notorious Xhanum who gives rat’s you know what what because she openly calls us “gay-manians” happy.. hmmm.. AW? Any idea?? .
Necati thinks he is a patriot. Cute.
Boyajian:
read Mr. Sassounian’s article. Then you’ll really understand.
http://armenianweekly.com/2012/02/07/sassounian-armenians-need-to-pursue-their-cause-with-more-confidence-and-commitment/
I did Avery and I understand. What I was trying to say is that the give and take of the dialogue is important to me and I prefer that it not be hampered by stridency on either side. However, I don’t underestimate the resolve and malice of those who are committed to depriving us of our overdue justice, or of the deceptive lengths they will go to to accomplish this. So yes, be steadfast, be strong, be straight as an arrow, but know your target and don’t waste your ammo.
Նկատելի է որ այս ֆորումում, ամեն մեկնաբանություն կարող է խախտվել, բացի ծայրահեղ ազգասիրություն ու հարձակում յուրաքանչյուր թուրքին:
Boyajian jan.. our ammo will never cease to exist.. no matter what.. :)
Here is the video from (16 years old) Anonymous hacktivist on the YouTube:
Anonymous: Operation Armenian Genocide (Update 2012, February) Re-Engaged (Official)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1yC-Mplk7g&context=C3b7a5ccADOEgsToPDskI8lQtQ3nnYgH-l306alGQx
And this is hacktivist’s channel and video feeds:
http://www.youtube.com/user/AnonUser333
Ok..Thanks.. but not sure what was it that you tried to point out with this??
@ Gayane,
You’re welcome, If you think you will fin out!
But, not that I care!
Anonymous:
Do you trust Russians?
Hrair-in ,
Bnaganabar ayd aydbes e kanzi Trker mishd ouranoum en ayn METZ VOJIR zor yuryanc nakhniner irgagocecin mer Zhoghovrti vra.
IT IS NATURAL THAT IT BE SO,SINCE TURKS DENY THE HUGE CRIME THAT THEIR ANCESTORS COMMITTED UPON OUR PEOPLE….
==================================================
INCH? SBASOUM EK WOR HAMPOURVENK YEV HASHDVENK YEXACIN HED? MEZ ABUSH GAM HIMAR EK GARCOUM?
WHAT ? YOU EXPECT THAT WE MAKE PEACE WITH WHAT THEY DID?
DO YOU TAKE US FOR SILLY PEOPLE OR FOOLS?
DARPER HAR YETE TOXUTYUN KHUNTREN,YEV MEZ VERADARCNEN BRNAGRAVADZ INCHKER YEV GALVACKNER.
ANOTHER QUESTION OR CASE,IF THEY ASK FOR FORGIVENESS AND RETURN TO US WHAT THEY CONFISCATED AND REAL ESTATES OUR ANCESTORS OWNED.
so… result ?
This is an nonofficial anonymous video, it was created by a fake person pretending to be anonymous .
How do you know? Anonymous is anonymous…Like the article states: “Anyone can become a member of Anonymous and propose actions”
Thank you anonymous! Those idiots should be ashamed of what they did. Thank you anonymous! We are a legion, we do not forgive, we do not forget, expect us!
This is nothing to support. If you are a true Armenian and care for our cause succeed and for our efforts to get the suffering or our ancestors to be recognized as it was, a Genocide, then you should NOT support such illegal and malicious activities. Cyber terrorism is still illegal and an act of terrorism. Nothing good comes out of it, and in fact you will be stooping to the same level of Turk and Azerbaijani hate mongers who use cyber terrorism to bully Armenians and to attack Armenian websites/web resources.
Throughout history Armenians were successful in getting the message across without resorting to illegal activities and violence. Instead of spending time, resources and energy on such juvenile activities, direct those resources into diplomacy and spreading the truth about what Armenians went through.