Hungarian Activists to hold demonstrations this week
“This mistake has to be rectified by us, Hungarians!” wrote one. “Today, I am ashamed of being a Hungarian,” wrote another. “I apologize to all Armenians, and particularly to the family of Gurgen Margaryan,” said a third.
They echoed the sentiments of tens of thousands of Hungarians outraged by their government’s decision to extradite Margaryan’s murderer, Ramil Safarov, to his home country Azerbaijan, where he received a hero’s welcome, was pardoned, and promoted.
In 2004, Safarov murdered Margaryan, an Armenian lieutenant, in Hungary with an axe, while the latter was asleep. He was sentenced to life in prison.
Politicians, religious leaders, and activists in Hungary commented on the extradition, apologizing to Armenians and criticizing the extradition.
The president of the Hungarian Catholic Bishops’ Conference, Card. Péter Erdő, issued a statement expressing “full solidarity with the Armenian Christians and with the Armenian people that has so much suffered in the past.”
“We ask the Almighty that through the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary He might lead and protect the whole Armenian people and bless them with the gift of justice and peace,” read the statement.
Various newspapers and blogs published articles denouncing the Hungarian government.
Demonstrations are planned for early this week in front of the Ministry of Justice and the Parliament of Hungary to express outrage at the decision to extradite Safarov.
Thousands of Hungarians joined Facebook groups apologizing for their government’s action. One such group, called “Sorry, Armenia,” had close to 8,000 “Likes” as of Sept. 2.
Another Facebook group, “Hungarians are sorry, Armenia,” had 2,000 “Likes.”
Wreaths were placed in memory of Margaryan at Deák square in Budapest (see photo).
Fifteen Hungarians lined up on a street each holding a letter of the phrase “Sorry, Armenia!” (see photo).
‘Unacceptable, amoral act’
Benedek Zsigmond, a Hungarian Armenologist, made moving statements in Yerevan, in fluent Armenian, apologizing for the “unacceptable, amoral act.” He added, “That which the Hungarian government has done flies in the face of all moral and panhuman values.”
“Many Hungarians are apologizing for the government’s action. They do it both in Hungarian and in English. Moreover, some people say, ‘I feel shame that I am Hungarian,’” Zsigmond told the Armenian Weekly in an interview.
Hungarians we interviewed not only expressed shame and outrage, but insisted they would continue petitioning, protesting, and demonstrating until their government did all it could to rectify the situation, and until those involved in the extradition were held accountable.
Ildiko Fülep, a Hungarian living in Vienna, told the Weekly, “As someone who knows Armenia’s culture and history, I’m deeply shocked by my government’s decision. I feel like my government put a knife in the back of Armenians, and it also cheated its own nation.”
‘Please, do not burn our flag’
Some Hungarians pleaded with Armenians to refrain from burning the Hungarian flag during demonstrations against the Hungarian government. “The Hungarian flag is not a symbol of the government, but the Hungarian people!” said one.
Another Hungarian blogger we interviewed noted, “Remember, that is also the flag of the tens of thousands of Hungarians who are against the actions of the government, and will demonstrate and protest against it.”
“Burn the photo of [Hungarian Prime Minister] Viktor Orbán instead,” she added.
The Hungarian flag was burned during a demonstration in Yerevan on Sept. 1.
A follow-up to this story will be published later this week. Please send your letters, comments, and relevant links to the author at editor@armenianweekly.com or contact him on Twitter by clicking here.
Dr. Khatchig Mouradian
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Need actions, words are never enough!
This is a very touching article. Thank you for telling us that the Hungarian people stand with the Armenians condemning this idiotic move by their government.
Disgusting events. See how the world forgets. However, I also see the positive. Finally the international community can see (once again) the true colors of Azeri-Turks. Enough with insulting negotiations over Artsakh. They will never get anywhere. RA should grab the opportunity now and proceed with RECOGNITION.
Absolutely Missak jjan… this unnecessary and unproductive negotiations are just smoke blown by the BIG POWERS to say “oh look, we are working through this”… why are we continuing such negotiations is beyond me…
No Armenian can forget the moment they heard about Margaryan’s brutal murder. It was an act that conjured up the atrocities of the Armenian Genocide with which we are all too familiar. To have the murderer set free is incomprehensible. To know that 10s of 1,000s Hungarians are protesting equally outraged by their government’s action helps enormously. Now, the question is, what can be done? Making the Hungarian people real allies would be a step in the right direction – it is in their best interest to find a way to make their government account for this deporable action.
I agree that flags are symbols of the people of a country not their government. I thank the people of Hungary who immediately rose in protest of their governments evil actions. I ask all those who remain silent to also stand up and be counted on the side of justice.
I agree… hope that the Hungarian people do not hold the flag burning against us because as an Armenian, I don’t agree with such acts… however, i understand that it was the first reaction of our furious youth after hearing what the Hungarian govt did…
I want to thank the Hungarian people for rising up and joining Armenians in this endeavor…
I agree with Hungarians: our brethren in Yerevan should not have burnt the Hungarian flag. Also throwing tomatoes at the glass doors of Hungarian Embassy in Yerevan was a little undignified: unbecoming our great people.
Having said that, considering the deep wound this action by certain Hungarian politicians has inflicted on all Armenians, and particularly Armenians in RoA, one of whose native sons was hacked to pieces in his sleep – the reaction of residents in Yerevan was relatively mild and civilized.
We Armenians should take the hand of friendship extend by the Hungarian people and hold it firmly.
We Armenians need to concentrate and direct our fury at the real enemy: fascist, terrorist, Anti-Armenian leadership of Azerbaijan.
In the long run this act will backfire on Azerbaijan.
It has already united and galvanized worldwide Armenians like nothing in a long time. The real face of Azeri fascism and ethnic hatred was brought into sharp focus again.
These events are a reminder to us all Diaspora Armenians to work diligently day and night to ensure RoA and NKR maintain the toughest military force in South Caucasus: we need to take care of everything else that we can (social), so the authorities in RoA an NKR can concentrate on their militaries.
Tens of thousands of Azeri youth are being indoctrinated every day to hate and despise Armenians. They are being armed to the teeth. Imagine for a second what would happen if tens of thousands of axe murderers descended on Stepanakert.
Let us put aside all our petty differences now: RoA and NKR are facing an existential threat.
Now is not the time for squabbles.
AMEN Avery jan.. AMEN
That’s why i have made many a times a suggestion that the youth of the diaspora be allowed to serve in the Armenian army..everyone needs to do a 2-4 year tour of duty. I bet they get tens of thousands of youth to sign up..
Thank you to the Hungarians who protest this action and who are posting here. Justice really is everybody’s interest. It must be sad and shocking that your government has made this choice. My fellow Armenians let us remember that it is the *government* decision we are protesting please!
1. Sararov knows that he can’t leave Azerbaijan for the rest of his life. He might be subject to arrest and extradition in the European Union. He might also have a self imposed fear of a Nemesis operation.
2. An interesting legal question is whether Hungary can demand extradition due to the failure of Azerbaijan to live up to its undertaking to Hungary to enforce the sentence.
3. How did Azerbaijan bribe or blackmail Hungary?
4. Azerbaijan has told the world the value of any promise to protect Armenian life, property or language in some future proposed deal. From my perspective, this naked celebration of murder and the murderer means that any Armenian subject to Az control will be killed with impunity. Aliev, you just improved the tenacity of Armenians to repel invasion.
5. Az also told Russia its efforts are not expected to be worthwhile.
Good questions JDA… I myself would like to know the answers to those questions…
Azerbaboons are absolutely thrilled of this event and I hope that everyone of them who were involved of the release of the Devil’s child will face judgement in HELL for the rest of eternity..
He will leave Azerbaijan for each country. do not be that sure. Please make clear the following cases:
1921 – Germany has pardoned and released the Armenian terrorist S. Teyleryan, who had murdered the former minister of foreign affairs of the Ottoman Empire. The act occured in Berlin, was labeled as purely ethnical. International reaction: nothing.
1921 – United Kingdom releases the Armenian terrorist M. Torlakyan who murdered the ex-chief of the ministry of internal affairs of the Azerbaijan Democratic Republic. Ethnical targeting. International reaction – nothing.
1984 – United States of America releases to freedom the Armenian murderer and terrorist Guren Yanikyan, who was sentenced to a life-long imprisonment for his murder of Turkey’s Chief Ambassador M. Baydar and Council B. Demir in Los Angeles. Double ethnical, ruthless killing. International reaction – nothing.
1989 – France releases the Armenian terrorist M. Melkonyan who organized the attack on the Turkish consulate in Paris. The attack led to a heavy injury of the council, K. Inal, and death of a security guard D. Ozen. Mass terrorism, targeted at ethinic warfare. International reaction – nothing.
2001 – France releases the famous Armenian terrorost Varujan Karapetyan, organizer of the terrible explosion at the Paris-Orly airport. International reaction – nothing.
Agreed. But the actions needed are from the Armenian government. Both the venal Russian government and our hypocritical “ally” France, have maintained a deafening silence to the institutionalization of first-degree murder against Armenians as permissible under international law.
This is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for Yerevan to recognize the eight reclaimed territories as an independent Armenian state or – at the very least – annex Keljabar, Lachin and Artsakh as being within the legal borders of Armenia.
It’s irrational to expect other countries to take action when the Armenian government continues to abstain from taking the most important action of all. Ilham Aliev doesn’t beg for anybody’s permission to do whatever he wants. What is Serzh Sarkisyan waiting for?
Aliev just handed the Armenians a gift. Withdraw from all negotiations and recognize all the reclaimed territories as independent or annex Keljabar, Lachin and Artsakh – declaring them to be within the legal borders of the Republic of Armenia.
That is what i am talking about Setta jan…
WHY is our govt so passive about this.. We should have had a fire burning out of our govt already…
In 2005, when I gave a talk at the Library of Congress, I mentioned with regret the axe-murder of Lt. Margaryan at the NATO training course in Hungary. An audience member chastised me afterward for having mentioned such a hot issue, as if the problem was talking about the murder, not the murder itself. In view of the adulation heaped on the wrongly pardoned axe-murderer by Azerbaijan’s President and officials, we can see clearly that genocidal thinking is alive and well in that country. Remember the destruction by Azeri troops of the ancient Armenian cemetery in Old Jugha that was video-taped from the Iranian side of the Arax? This is outrageous; it is part of a pattern, and it must be condemned in no uncertain terms, even if talking about it raises “tensions.”
Absolutely Mr. Evans… we need to stop worrying about how these monsters will react or how much tension it will create… enough is enough…
Ambassador Evans, what is it about all US State departments that have this absolute need to hide the Armenian genocide at all cost? Whats the secret? “Ally” doesn’t seem enough that the US is so afraid of telling the truth about mass murder that it gets involved at every level to thwart any coming acknowledgement for an event that happened nearly 100 years ago? Please share you knowledge.
Mr. Evans thank you for your consistent support of truth and justice. You are a singular servant of humanity. I too, would love to know the answers to John’s questions to you. Do the Armenians have any chance against those who conspire to control oil at any cost and make ‘friends’ with corrupt leaders, murderers and thieves? If so, what do you recommend?
Thank you Mr. Ambassador! The more the rhetoric and actions like this ratchet up, the more the danger grows. There is no doubt you are correct, just as we have seen in other places in history where such hatred is “normalized!” It’s such an insult to anyone’s intelligence to be told not to speak up about it!
Dear Armenian people! I am really grateful to the author of this article for highlighting that Hungarian people are also shocked by this shameful act of our government! However I’m sure that our government won’t do ANYTHING in this case (as they didn’t do anything in lots of other cases in the last few years that made us, Hungarian people be ashamed) but we won’t finish protesting against this act and demonstrating that we feel with you.
This government has been elected two years ago and has 2/3 of the places in the Parliament that’s why it is almost impossible to remove them… I have never voted for them but lots of people who have, turned away from them in the last years, too. Their side is ever decreasing and however they are just about to modify the election rules for their own profit I really hope that they won’t govern anymore after the elections 2014.
I can understand if you feel anger against all Hungarian now but please remember that most of Hungarian people also condemns this act of the government and feels with Armenia! Please accept our apologies that has to be expressed by simple Hungarians because our characterless and opportunistic government will never apologise officially… :(
Benedek..
I want to thank you for posting on our site and showing your support..
Please know we don’t hate or are not angry at the Hungarian people.. the flag burning was a quick reaction to the news… and it should not have happened. however, as Armenians, we expressed that it was not meant to hurt or degrade all Hungarians… it was a mistake that should not have happened….
Armenians truly appreciate you and your brethren efforts to unite with us..
Thank you
Gayane
I am really happy , that there a people like you in the world! Thank you for your support! I’m Armenian, and I don’t blame any Hungarian for that matter, you have nothing to do with your government :(
1921 – Germany has pardoned and released the Armenian terrorist S. Teyleryan, who had murdered the former minister of foreign affairs of the Ottoman Empire. The act occured in Berlin, was labeled as purely ethnical. International reaction: nothing.
1921 – United Kingdom releases the Armenian terrorist M. Torlakyan who murdered the ex-chief of the ministry of internal affairs of the Azerbaijan Democratic Republic. Ethnical targeting. International reaction – nothing.
1984 – United States of America releases to freedom the Armenian murderer and terrorist Guren Yanikyan, who was sentenced to a life-long imprisonment for his murder of Turkey’s Chief Ambassador M. Baydar and Council B. Demir in Los Angeles. Double ethnical, ruthless killing. International reaction – nothing.
1989 – France releases the Armenian terrorist M. Melkonyan who organized the attack on the Turkish consulate in Paris. The attack led to a heavy injury of the council, K. Inal, and death of a security guard D. Ozen. Mass terrorism, targeted at ethinic warfare. International reaction – nothing.
2001 – France releases the famous Armenian terrorost Varujan Karapetyan, organizer of the terrible explosion at the Paris-Orly airport. International reaction – nothing.
Virág,
What the hell, are u going to a political discussion? What is the shameful act of our goverment?
We have to follow the international laws this act was the result of an international law so the problem is in Azerbaijan and not in Hungary!
I am really sorry that the government of Azerbaijan could not follow the contract that was signed between Hungary and Azerbaijan. But it is not belongs to neither Hungarians nor Viktor Orbán. Your post is full with stupidity and actually the shameful act is when you are crying and campaign here against our government which was elected lawfully! Pathetic…
Dear Armenians, I hope the situation will solved as soon as possible and I am sure our governmet try to do their best and just and information we have similar situation with ireland:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/irishsun/irishsunnews/4400608/Zoltai-Tobins-killed-my-kids-lock-him-up.html
As I said we just follow the international laws! Everybody should do the same!
hunsnipa:
The is no law that required – required – Hungary to send the ax murderer to Azerbaijan. The laws allows it, but does not require it.
For 7-8 years Azerbaijan has been trying to get Hungary to xfer Safarov to Baku.
RoA and Armenian NGOs had been warning Hungary no to, because he would be set free once in Baku. How is it that Hungary did not xfer Safarov all this time, and suddenly decided to “follow the law” ?
Hungary’s economy is in poor shape, Azerbaijan promised €3 billion to Hungary, and suddenly your Gov discovered “the law”.
So stop hiding behind a fake justification.
And what does an Irish man who accidentally killed two innocent Hungarians with his automobile have to do with a premeditated, coldblooded murder of a sleeping man ? A murder committed on ethic and/or racial motivation: a death penalty offense.
Are you that desperate to justify the immoral act of your Gov that you could not come up with anything else ?
Sanan…
if you believe by copying and pasting your indiotic and non-related comment over and over will change something well… i can tell you right now it won’t..
You site points that YOU KNOW VERY WELL why they happened… you ignorant individiual… You denialists are soo desperate that you will dig up everything to justify your animal actions… but the world knows who Azeris and Turks are.. NOT EVERYONE of course but vast segment of your people are ignorant denialists…
hunsnipa,
Do not play the stupid. You are very much voicing a Fidesz type of agenda.
I understand that you are in a need of protecting your party. But if its action-misdeed is contradicting your conscience – will you still last for it? Where is your honor, sense of justness and dignity? If everyone is jumping in the well are you jumping after them?
I am not a Hungarian from Hungary. I did not have problem with your party yet. Your party has still cared the most about the other 4 million Hungarians around the world.
But what is Fidesz doing now – is disgusting. Unjust, hypocratic, false and sly – causing shame (gyalázat) on the Hungarian name. And not only on Hungary but on Hungarians globally.
Please, regret your mistake – you did evil. And with consent. Do not play the stupid on it. Please.
Sanan,
I note that you cribbed your propaganda points from a Turkish website, which I am sure your deep state had prepared in advance for this act of treachery upon Hungary.
Obviously, you missed out on reading comprehension. In this case, no nation intended to release the axe murderer, and soon to be fall guy Safarov. Az. tricked or bribed Hungary into a release on a supposed promise to enforce and not vacate the sentence. Now as to a few of your irrelevant sob stories:
1. The hero Tehlerian was acquitted after a trial in a German court. Germany was not tricked into releasing him. He truthfully recounted seeing members of his family murdered by your ancestors in spirit. Safarov tried this trick too, but it is established he was in Turkey during the war.
2. Gourgen Yanikian was convicted of second degree murder, and was paroled at age 88 for reasons of ill health. He died within a month.
I have come to realize that the Hungarians are right that we should not pile them into one lump, and we should not blame them, because although Hungary may have a corrupt government, it is still no Azerbaijan.
We know full well that the Azeri government is in fact a perfect representation of its people: ignorant, crude and backwards. When the news came out many of us overreacted because we were afraid the Hungarian public would stand in solidarity with its corrupt government, as did the Azeris. I’m glad to see this is not the case. Still, there may be some Hungarians who agree with their government, though, but hopefully this is a minority.
I also think that burning the Hungarian flag was inappropriate, instead the Azeri and Turkish flags should have been burned, I’m sure somewhere along the lines Turkey had stuck its dirty nose in this deal. We don’t need another enemy in the world, we need to get rid of the ones we have now.
Hungarian people did not deserve to have their flag burned in Yerevan. I, as an Armenian, am sorry for that.
Azeri flag should have been burned instead, as Azeri-Turks in Azerbaijan wholeheartedly embraced this criminal and their presidents immoral act.
I hope they gonna do something after the apologies, I’m with Rubin on this question. But nothing ever gonna be able to make this undone. I’m deeply ashamed of what that dictator did, of what he has been doing with my people in the last two years. This incident made me think to get rid of my hungarian citizenship. I don’t want to see that guy to build his autocracy and being close to start a war between 2 other nations who suffered enough in the past. All of which for the bloody oil…
Sic transit gloria mundi for the hungarians.
I wanted to say more, but honestly, I’m out of words after this terrible event.
Shame on the governments that sale their pride for some petromoneY. The hungarian people has nothing to do with this action. Azerbaijan is buying many governments in latin america and make them to recognize a genocide that never exists in jodyali. Armenians and Hungarians are brothers!
http://www.facebook.com/SorryArmenia?ref=stream
…recognition of ARTSHAK!
It is touching to hear from the Hungarian people. It’s a pity their government proved to be such a disgrace. The question is what can be done now? we shouldn’t allow this to be forgotton. And a very good point by Missak. You can imagin now what would happen to all the Armenians in Artsax if we for a moment assumed they’d go back to Azerbaijan. It is impossible, and Armenia should stop this nonsence with negotiation and recognize Artsax. So should all other decent people/countries. Enough is enough!
Enough is Enough … very approporate statement…
YES… Armenia should embrace this moment and curtail ALL NEGOTIATIONS with these deamons… and get Artsagh over to borders and get it over with…
Another demonstration of how Aliyev thinks and shows that he can do anything with his oil money and the unmature, unprofesseional attitude of our Armenian Foreign policy department and employees who did nothing to prevent and preempt this action knowing full well that this will happen. You can cry all you want after spilled milk, nothing will change except some speeches that no one cares.
The only right reaction on Azerbaidjans procedure concerning to Safarov will be the immediate recognition of Artsakh as part of the Republic of Armenia !
DITTO… absolutely
Now to apologize doesn t do any good. Safarov is back home and in a few month he will be probably organizing a secong genocide for the armenians.
That man must be killed. Armenia now should recognize Artsakh s independence and be ready for war.
I am sorry but I have another thing to say that you might not like.How many
armenian soldiers have been killed by armenians in the army including the
murder at the restaurant of a military doctor.Has the armenian government
put anyone in jail for those soldiers murder?They are all getting away with
murder by briberies.Lets look at the crap we have in our own backyard.
Pressure must be mounted for the perpetrators of this shameless act(the prime minister of Hungary, The justice minister, and the foreign minister) to resign and apologize. Until Armenians and Hungarian people should tegether escalate the pressure with worlwide demonstrations and demand for their resignation.
I have nothing against Hungarian people as 3 Hungarian Armenian generals fought for Hungary with distinguished war records ,so much so that every year their names are remembered in Hungary along with over 1500 Armenian Hungarians who fought for Hungary against the Turks.The three Hungarian generals from who had Armenian roots: Ernő Kiss and Vilmos Lázár (both wre executed by the Austrians in 1849) and János Czetz, who had to immigrate and settled down finally in Argentina.
Sadly the present Hungarian government is a bunch of crooks and stinks with corruption.
As far as the Azeris are concerned after this its plain obvious that there cant be any negotiations with the murderers.
Armenia must:
1. Recognise Artsakh as an independent country.
2. OSCE Minsk group has now become redundant.
3. Armenia must have a military treaty with Artsakh.
4. Protocols should be thrown into the dustbin of history.
5. Armenia must be ready to give a knockout blow to the Azeris including destroying all their oil and gas facilities.
6.Armenian intelligence must locate the where abouts of this murderer and deal with him as such.
I agree with your points, very well said. We should not victimize the Hungarian people who have not say in what their crooked Government did. However the Hungarian Government should pay for its mistake.
I agree with your 6 points except number 2.
Well said MK….
“President Obama is deeply concerned by today’s announcement that the President of Azerbaijan has pardoned Ramil Safarov following his return from Hungary”.
Well that says it all.
How many barrels of oil flowed through the BTC pipeline today?
Who is responsible for emboldening Azerbaijan?
Not the Hungarians!
But why did the Hungarian government do it? What did they expect to gain?
Money.. That simple…
Negotiations have been going on between Hungary and Azerbaijan through Turkish mediation for the last one year; for Azerbaijan to assume the 3 Billion Euro national dept of Hungary! If that happens then we know the price of Safarov’s release.
KHOJALY: The chronicle of unseen forgery and falsification
xocali.net
ՍԱՖԱՐՈՎԻ ԱԶԱՏ ԱՐՁԱԿՈՒՄԸ ԿԵՂՏՈՏ ԳՈՐԾԱՐՔԻ ԱՐԴՅՈ՞ՒՆՔ ԷՐ. ՄԱՐԴԱՍՊԱՆ ԱԴՐԲԵՋԱՆՑՈՒ ԱԶԱՏՈՒԹՅՈՒՆԸ ԱԼԻԵՒԻ ՎՐԱ ԿԱՐՈՂ ԷՐ 3 ՄԼՐԴ ԵՎՐՈ ԱՐԺԵՆԱԼ
· Ադրբեջանցի Ռամիլ Սաֆարովի արտահանձնումը կարող է Հունգարիայի եւ Ադրբեջանի կառավարությունների միջեւ 3 մլրդ եվրո արժողությամբ գաղտնի գործարքի մաս լինել, գրում են հունգարական լրատվամիջոցները:
Մասնավորպես, երկրում առաջատար «World Economy Weekly» (HVG) պարբերականը հիշեցնում է, որ ադրբեջանական կողմը բազմիցս է դիմել Հունգարիայի իշխանություններին` ցմահ դատապարտված իր մարդասպանի արտահանձնման խնդրանքով, սակայն միշտ մերժում է ստացել: Հունգարիան իր մերժումը հիմնավորում էր նրանով, որ չունի բավարար հիմքեր վստահ լինելու, որ Ադրբեջանում Սաֆարովը կշարունակի կրել իր պատիժը:
«Ի՞նչն է ստիպել փոխել որոշումը»,-հարցադրում է անում հունգարական մամուլը: Պաշտոնատար անձինք ի պատասխան բազմանշանակ լռում են` վկայակոչելով երկու երկրների արդարադատության նախարարությունների միջեւ բանակցությունները, սակայն պատասխանը քիչ կապ ունի արդարադատության հետ, այլ բացառապես գտնվում է տնտեսական հարթությունում:
«Հունգարիան մերժում էր Սաֆարովի արտահնձնման մասին խնդրանքն այն պատճառով, որ նա կարող էր ներման արժանանալ Ադրբեջանում, եւ անհավանական է, որ Հունգարիայի արդարադատության նախարարությունն այդ մասին իրազեկված չլիներ»,-հայտարարել է արտաքին քաղաքականության հարցերով փորձագետ Անդրաս Ռազսը: «Մենք ազատ արձակեցինք մարդասպանին, ով կացնահարել էր իր զոհին` արտահանձնելով ավտորիտար Ադրբեջանին, որտեղ նա ազգային հերոս է: Սա դժվար է բացատրել Արեւմուտքի հանրային կարծիքին»:
Այսպիսով, որո՞նք են իրական պառճառները, որ ստիպել են հունգարական իշխանություններին հրաժարվել արդարադատությունից: Մեկ շաբաթ առաջ` օգոստոսի 24-ին տեղի ուենցած իրադարձությունը որոշակի առումով բացահայտում է գաղտնիքը. Հունգարիայի պարտքերի կառավարման հարցերով կառավարական գործակալության տնօրեն Լասզլո Բորբելին առաջին անգամ բացահայտ խոսել էր այն մասին, որ ադրբեջանական կողմը պատրաստ է 3 մլն եվրոյով գնել հունգարական կառավարական պարտատոմսերը, ինչը կնվազեցնի հունգարական իշխանությունների կախվածությունը ԱՄՀ-ից:
Օգոստոսին 23-ին հունգարական «Népszabadság» ազդեցիկ պարբերականը «լավ լուր» էր հաղորդել այն մասին, որ «նավթի արտահանումից ադրբեջանական կառավարության հասույթը օգուտ կբերի հունգարական պետությանը»:
Համաձայն Հունգարիայի էկոնոմիկայի նախարարության աղբյուրի`ադրբեջանական իշխանությունները 2-3 մլրդ եվրոյով ձեռք կբերեն Հունգարիայի պետական պարտատոմսերը, ինչը կթուլացնի ԱՄՀ կողմից Հունգարիայի նկատմամբ ճնշումը:
Ավելի վաղ Հունգարիան փորձել էր ֆինանսական աջակցություն ստանալ Սաուդյան Արաբիայից եւ ԱՄԷ-ից` ԱՄՀ եւ ԵՄ հետ բանակցություններում ավելի շատ անկախություն ունենալու համար, հաղորդում է Index պարբերականը: Սակայն հունգարական իշխանությունների ջանքերը հաջողությամբ չպսակվեցին, եւ ստիպված էին ֆինանսավորման նոր աղբյուրներ գտնել: Եւ այստեղ է, որ նրանց օգնության հասան «թուրք եղբայրները», ովքեր ստանձնեցին Հունգարիայի եւ Ադրբեջանի միջեւ բանակցությունների միջնորդի դերը:
Թերթի պաշտոնական աղբյուրի տեղեկություններով, բանակցությունները տեւել են ամիսներ շարունակ` Թուրքիայի անուղղակի մասնակցությամբ: Այդուհանդերձ, օգոստոսի 2 -ին թուրքական պաշտոնական աղբյուրը «Ռոյթեր»-ին հաղորդել է, որ բանակցային գործընթացը դանդաղել է: Անկասկած, ադրբեջանական կողմին լրացուցիչ դիվիդենտներ էին անհրաժեշտ` 3 մլրդ եվրո դնելու համար, եւ հենց այդ դիվիդենտն էլ կարող էր լինել մարդասպանի ազատ արձակումը:
Փորձագետ Ռազսի խոսքով` եթե Սաֆարովի ազատ արձակումն այդ գործարքի մաս է եղել, ապա դա անկասկած կհանգեցնի միջազգային վականիշի կորստին, ինչպես նաեւ տնտեսական կորուստների` հունգարական պետական պարտատոմսերի նկատմամբ վստահության բացակայության հետ կապված: «Միայն մեկ բան կարող է կատարվածից ավելի վատ լինել. եթե այս ամենից հետո գործարքը, այնուամենայնիվ, կայանա»,-ավելացնում է հունգարացի փորձագետը:
Հնարավոր ֆինանսական գործարքի մասին վերջին մանրամասնը ճշտել է Բուդապեշտում Ադրբեջանի դեսպանատունը: Հունգարիայում Ադրբեջանի հյուպատոս Աման Իմանովը հայտարարել է, որ Սաֆարովի արտահանձնումից հետո Ադրբեջանի իշխանություններն իրավունք ունեին վերանայելու դատարանի վճիռն իրենց հայեցողությամբ: «Ցանկացած ոք, ով հետեւում է հունգարա-ադրբեջանական հարաբերություններին, կարող է նկատել, որ մեր համագործակցության ոլորտներն ընդլայնվել են, իսկ Հունգարիայի վարչապետը վերջերս երկու անգամ այցելել է Բաքու»,- բազմանշանակ ավելացրել է ադրբեջանցի դիվանագետը:
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Most satisfying and to the point is the comment by ex His excellency Mr. John Evans. He has put his finger on the main issue for us Armenians -that of Mr. Aliev pres. od Azerbaijan ¨wrongly¨pardoning the criminal.As well as ,-as he points out¨the Genocidal thinking and/or (I might add) feelings and desire over the border in that cpountry.Thence it is full time ,one would think that OSCE -the three France,the U.S. and Russian delegates or representatives unanimously decide what is to be done in regard to NK-Artskah Conflct solution now.
This understandable gives them a real motive to pass a resolution that suits the situation.In brief,the people of NK Artskah have the right for self determination and never again submit to Azeri jurisdiction/rule.A wrong one at that too,previously decided upon the authorities of the soviet republics.
Armenians, I am on your side ! Unfortunately I can do nothing against this shameful action of our government but express my solidarity with your people.
Tibor (Hungary)
http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magda_Marink%C3%B3
Sorry it is not english, please translate the wikipedia, and read the “Magda Marinko” case!
The most important part the next!
“Kiadatás [szerkesztés]
A fogvatartott többször kérvényezte, hogy büntetését szülőhazájában tölthesse le, többek között nyelvi nehézségeire, és családtagjainak távoli lakóhelyére hivatkozva, ám mindannyiszor elutasították. A negatív elbírálás okai között szerepel, hogy amíg Szerbiában érvényben volt a halálbüntetés (és Magda ügyében távollétében ilyen ítélet született), a magyar jogszabályok értelmében nem lehetett kiadni olyan személyt, akire hazájában ilyen büntetés várna. A halálbüntetés eltörlése óta is kérte a kiadatást, ám ezt is elutasították, a bizonytalan végrehajtás indokával.”
Shortly in english!
Magda Marinko is a serbian serial killer, who is spent the life sentence guilty in a hungarian prison.
Magda please the hungarian goverment, to spent the sentence in a serbian prison but the goverment refuse it the next reason:
UNCERTAIN EXECUTION!!!!
“Sorry Armenia”
Zoltan
Its hard for us Armenians to understand the decision to release Safarov,what can be done now? Safarov is still a criminal,now at large,but i agree with the Hungarians as to not to burn their flag,lets emotion settle now,we will take care of Safarov.
Self determination or genocide of the Armenians in Artsagh the choice is simple There is no such thing as accepting death for the sake of territorial integrity.Hungary should be the first in recognising this
At times such as this we Armenians are famed for being rather slow in counter offensives. In view of very important entities being involved in the century´s MOST IMPORTANT wheel and deal by the two Govt.s involved,that is Hungary and Azerbaijan, it would not be a rather impossible DECISION by the OSCE and/or the like,even more important the Int´l Court of Justic at the Hague to pass a decison ,as follows:-If it becomes clear and totally revealed that the 3 billion dollar deal to help out the Hungarian Gov.t (buying latter´s bonds) was the ¨¨softening¨of the Hungarian Court decision TO THAT DEGREE as to release the prisoner that was not to be even brought to a 2nd hearing or judgement AFTER 30 yrs….then THE ABOVE MONIES SHOULD BE RETURNED TO BUYER OF THE BONDS, ruling that it was an UNLAWFUL DEAL and……ALSO TO RETURN THE PRISONER TO BUDAPEST.
This would show the world that wrongfull acts-even by Govt.s and presidents can be CORRECTED, rectified. JUSTA SUGGESTION…..
Where was our foreign ministry? Where was our ambassador? Where was our government? Why they did not even have any information? What were they thinking when the lawyer of the slain soldier had informed our government? They need to give the answers to these questions. Otherwise we will miss the next train, too.
Quit utilizing every chance to critisize the Armenian government, it has become shameful at this point. You questions have long answered if you bothered to read before happily going on another anti-government tirade. The MFA of Armenia had been warning Hungary all these years about extradition, and when serious talks with Azerbaijan began they did all in their power to prevent Hungary from going through. But what do yopu expect, for us to handcuff them? They are a sovereign nation after all and unfortunately decided to take the wrong route for the money and were lied to by the azeris. It is rediciulous for you to claim that the Armenian government stood by idly. This situation was continuousl monitored all necessary steps pre and post were taken.
Tigran,
A Hungarian-Armenian civic group has warned the Armenian Foreign Ministry about the release of the Azeri criminal 11 days before the actual handover. You may find this information on PanArmenianNET. Do you know if anything has been undertaken on the part of the Armenian government to subvert that? Are you satisfied by the suspension of diplomatic relations with Hungary that our president has announced? What kind of an adequate measure is this? He suspends disgraceful Turkish-Armenian protocols; he suspends relations with a state that essentially set him up; only his wealth and his corrupt system he does not suspend, how come?
Regarding the criticism of the Armenian government. It is our constitutional RIGHT to criticize the government as citizens of Armenia. If we don’t, we may as well go to the countryside in sheep herds to graze. Is this what you want all of your people to become? Ain’t gonna happen…
Agreed with Armen….
Our govt SHOULD AND WILL BE critizied if the situation calls for.. and i have to admit, our govt had many many times disgraced and dissapointed our people…. acting like sheep and following orders . NO MORE. we did that 100 years ago and look what happened to us.. we trusted the govt to protect and respect us… but instead we got the Genocide…
our people were mislead and mistreated by their govt back then and the a very similar thing is happening now… on different terms of course.. but it is happening…
OUR govt should stop being so nonresponsive and start being more vocal about things.. their silence and very “chill” approach in many matters is simply worrisome… if you ask me…
Armen, as I said we cannot handcuff the Hungarian government. They were warned to the fullest extent possible. This time they immorally chose 3 billion euros over our calls to be sensible. What have we got to leverage with? Petro dollars talk big. Did you expect the Armenian government to threaten Hungary with a military strike? Be real.
I am not against constructive criticism. What I am tired of is opportunists like Anna who are nothing more than provocateurs who miss no chance to spew their anti-government venom. If Azerbaijan was to tomorrow somehow drop a bomb on Stepanakert, these people would ignore the perpetrator and immediately jump on “Serjik this Serjik that,” meanwhile our enemies escape any blame. It is disheartening to see my own comaptriots using tragedies like this to escalate a crisis and destroy unity by complaining about our government instead of releasing all hell on the real culprits: in this case Azerbaijan and Hungary.
Tigran,
No one expects you to handcuff the Hungarian government. They were warned. I accept this. But a normal government should contemplate all the possible outcomes. In other words, what would the Armenian government do if Hungary broke its promise and released the criminal? Don’t give me this “be real” crap, please. Is the suspension of diplomatic relations the only measure the Armenian government has considered in response to Hungary’s treachery? Is that it?! There are tons of diplomatic measures other than a military strike that our government could take being a member of various European structures, European courts, and having such active Diaspora lobbying organizations. Nothing has been done. Suspension of diplomatic ties is a mockery. Time will pass and, knowing Serj and his government, they will tacitly restore ties. You doubt it? I don’t.
Same thing happened here in the U.S. Our Embassy in Washington did nothing to prevent the Turko-Azeri campaign of posting signs on city buses and in metro stations about the Khojaly tragedy. Our ineffective Ambassador offered exactly the same excuse as you did: “Well, Azeris are spending lots of money that we cannot afford”. This is a conformist, defeatist mentality! Azeris have money, yes, but you have a Diaspora that could make noise, and a very loud one. Nothing has been done. Is this inactivity acceptable to you? It means that the government refuses to fulfill its most important obligation: to defend the national interests of its people. Don’t you think?
The efficiency of a government is judged by the measures it undertakes not by injustices it faces from other governments. The issue is: what do YOU do to confront Azerbaijan and Hungary? If people see that you, as the President, did all you could for the interests of your country, but failed, I’m sure people would say: “well, at least our President has tried!” Such attitude only adds to the national unity.
If Azerbaijan drops a bomb on Stepanakert, people will not be surprised at this Azeri savagery. People will ask their government what it has done to protect them and if protection wasn’t possible for some reason, the people would then ask: OK, what do you now do to protect us? Isn’t this clear?
Armen, I understand and am in agreement with some of your grievances, but yet you mention the diaspora. Exactly. We can criticize and mock the inaction of the Armenian government, but these lobbying organizations you speak of, are they not independent entities? Last I checked they do not receive their orders from Serj’s desk. If we take the Khojaly disinformation campaign in DC for instance, while you may blame the embassy, what exactly did the local Armenian community and organizations do? They obviously failed, too, that is even if they tried to prevent it somehow. See, we can play the blame game all we want. You group the diaspora and the RoA government together, which is commendable, but what of those who boast that the diaspora carries all these activities while the government does nothing? Where are the successes of the ANCA and other numerous organizations? Where was this “loud Diaspora voice”? Where they waiting for the Diaspora Ministry to order them to do something? Or are you going to credit Obama’s (weak and phony) statements of concern regarding this situation solely to the ANCA as well? Do you not think that the embassy and Armenian representatives in the US also played a big role in getting a response from the State Department? I do not wish to cause any unnecessary friction in our already segmented ranks, all I ask is that people be fair in their assessments.
Grave mistake by the whore government of Hungary..
So what can apologetic Hungarians do? They could demand the full recognition and adoption of the Armenian Genocide on a national level and be part of the other 21 country’s that already do..
THAT’S THE LEAST THEY COULD DO! Otherwise keep your apologies..
Too late Hungarians.
I can’t speak for all Armenians but for my part I am already anti-Magyar to the core. This is a process that began with me many years ago when I first noticed that individual Hungarian nationalists on the web were flirting with Turanism.
However, I told myself these were just individuals and that I couldn’t judge the whole Hungarian nation because of these “exceptions”.
Then came the unprovoked anti-Armenian statements by Jobbik – I was so disgusted! I realized I couldn’t rationalize it away anymore: I had to admit that for some inexplicable reason anti-Armenian sentiments were finding fertile ground with Hungarian nationalists. Inexplicable because we never did anything to Hungarians!
The extradiction of Safarov to Azerbaijan by the Hungarian state crystallized my hostility towards Hungary and Hungarians. I will never go to Budapest on vacation. And I will always support Serbs, Slovaks and Romanians against Hungary. And why shouldn’t I? Unlike the case with Hungarians desperately looking for (false) kinsmen in the Turks these Indo-European tribes are actually RELATED to us Armenians.
It’s too late, Hungary. You earned yourselves a new enemy. Small and weak, perhaps, but still an enemy.
Have fun with the oil money.
I disagree with your sentiments of judging an entire group of people. It makes no sense. We’re all upset and insulted by this but it’s no reason to give in to it and hate Hungarians as a whole. Why are you paying attention to a bunch of nationalists. They exist in every country but do not represent an entire nation.
You’re ignoring all the Hungarians who are voicing their disparagement with the government’s decision. You’re also ignoring that a Hungarian court actually found Safarov guilty and did not believe his story of harassment and insults.
Do you not see all the Hungarians protesting in front of their parliament today?
“I don’t like what a few of you guys did and say, so I’m going to hate all of you.” How childish. The world needs less of this, not more!
Dear A. Cavtktanemyan,
From the forums and ways of discussions – I have a presumption of the Armenian mentality – that you are intelligent, sensitive and truth, justice and fairness loving nation with still strong Christian values.
Please, do not commit the mistake of collectivizing and stereotyping and judging-punishing of a whole nation or toward the Hungarian nation. From own experience you know – how unfair and painful it could be – if you are mistreated and handled unjustly. Is not it then bothering your conscience – if you are unjust and act wrongly – because you were blinded by anger and prejudices?
All of your claims have a base and source. I also experience the rise of Turanism – which in its own character could be racist and hateful with fascist elements. I very much reject and dislike this. I am writing this – even though I am also interested in the quest and study of ancient Hungarian history. That contains surely some ancient Turk relation – part of our vocabulary is based on it.
But as I write, for me – I reject, condemn and claim of any unjust acts – thus what did the Ottoman Turks against you, the genocide :( – (have read or seen the book or film about – the 40 days of Musa Dag) and do not support clearly beast and evil acts – even though if it were done by a nation to whom could be some distant relative ties. (Otherwise I still cannot really sympathize and trust to Turkey – stories about their acts during the 150 yrs of occupation – promises for letting free the guardians of keeps, fortresses – than breaking the promise and massacre, – abductions, blackmailings, enslavement, rapes.. … but on the other side they give exile to Rákóczi and Kossuth)
So – for you, please forgive for the insults and negative experience that you might have experienced by other Hungarians. Part of them have lost their real sense of justice and voice of conscience – they deny God and seek and believe in something else – and claim their “own truth” – which could be corrupted.
They are blinded by hate – many of them “feel patriot” – because they feel hurt and hate toward/by other nationalities – mostly against Hebrews, Slovaks, Rumanians, Serbs etc. They are insecure, unbalanced – with feeling of inferiority – and need of finding enemies – within own or neighboring states to shade their own miserability and pithiness. They slander, hate … – it is their meaning of existence. Do you want to sunk down on their level?
These are not real patriots and person – who try to add something and build something in own family, state and further world – instead of destruction and primitive hate. (However they needed to be changed and opened their eyes – but without God, and justness seeking – I do not know how is it possible – one swallow cannot make summer :( )
So, please – A. Cavtktanemyan, please change your attitude and way of thinking for the sake of Christ – be merciful and forgive, do not seek and hate and think every Hungarian of your enemy.
If you could sunk deeper in faith – try to understand those who might be hurted your feelings with empathy. It is one possible way of forgiving – not a superficial, but deep forgiving. Of course – other is your situation with a country to whom you are already in a war with. In this case of course you defend your home and family. But even then – if you capture prisoners – be merciful to them. God will never forget about this act…
One last thing… Historically you are much more closer to us, then Turkey. Centuries long have lived within the Hungarian kingdom Armenian people, traders. Even today it is represented and recognized as one of official minority in Hungary. And not only in Hungary. In Transylvania … like the village of Gyergyószentmiklós. So in many todays Hungarians could be Armenian blood, without knowing about – that states for Hungarians of Hungary and neighbouring countries. 3 of the executed generals and plenty of officers were of Armenian origin in the freedom fight against Habsburg Empire in 1848-49.
Someone educated about will never forget the good and support you Armenians resulted and gave to us Hungarians! …
Dear Armenians,
I am a Slovakian-Hungarian but even though – it was not my government responsible for this sadly act, – have felt the need to write.
I am also sorry for to you – what unjustice and shameful act has happened – with handling over that sneaky azeri killer. My reputation as a Hungarian in Slovakia (and also 4 millions of other Hungarians who are not living in Hungary) has been harmed – by the act of Hungarian authorities … :(
Justice and fairness was spit in face – in this case, please take my apologies.
Supporting you in this case,
With respect,
Tomi
Thank you Tom.. Appreciate your support…
I predict that if Hungary presses Az for extradition, az will kill Safarov, and blame it on Armenians.
They could put him on the front line and kill him, saying an Armenian sniper did it after adjusting his gun to make sure it won’t work, or they could send him to Turkey covertly, and kill him there, claiming Kurdish Armenians did it.
Safarov: your freedom will be short lived, you are a liability to the thieves who run your country. Many intelligence services are researching where you and your family members live.
True… well said JDA…. he is not safe because many are absolutely on him like a hawk now..
Jda,
Here you go… Komandos also predicts that Azeris will kill Safarov and blame it on Armenians.
http://news.am/arm/news/119589.html
who was first?
It’s worth remembering that a Hungarian court found Safarov guilty of murder, despite his “excuses” and sentenced him. Please take that into account before making sweeping judgements about Hungary and Hungarians. And I find it amazing that many Hungarians posted to various websites including Armenian Weekly and agreeing that the release of Safarov was wrong. And started Facebook pages about this. On top of that was the Hungarian professor of Armenian studies speaking in Armenian about this whole crap.
The United States State Department knew that Aliev was negotiating, by their own admission, to release Safarov. Why no word after all this time about it? Again, it’s the beginning of the 20th century all over again. Just as the British told General Andranik to pull away from Zangezur and forget about pushing across the plains of Azerbaijan towards Baku, Armenia was and is a pawn in the oil kingdom.
In my opinion, nothing will come from all the uproar through diplomatic channels. If this flaunt of human dignity isn’t the clarion call for Armenians to unite, spiritually and politcally around the world, then who are we to blame? I say our people have been getting nothing more than lip service for over a century. Let’s for once be specific about the forces at work plotting to make our people appear to be a herd of sheep being herded towards the butcher’s axe. Dignity alone, we’ve tried that, will not solve our problems.
I applaud Armenian government’s decisive action to cut relations with shameless Hungarian g government.
Hungarian government has to face for this callous action, not murderer Azeris!
By having said that, I still respect the deep friendship between Armenian an Hungarian people, and accept their sympathy and sorrow.
I am Armenian, and I truly respect Hungarian people!
Dear my beloved Armenian Friends: Ararat, Karen, Tatevik, Levon, Stephan, Lusine, Elizaveta, Armen, Lilit and every Armenian people!
Let me apologize to all Armenians; especially to Gurgen Margaryan’s family. On behalf of thousands, millions of my hungarian compatriots: please believe us, that we are deeply shocked by our government’s unacceptable, shameful, amoral decision and we will never accept it.
I spent an unforgettable month in your wonderful country four years ago, (worked in a hospital when I was medical student) which was one of the most beatiful periods in my life- and I can never be thankful enough for the love I got there and for your friendship. Please remember that we are on your side, and we won’t finish protesting against this act and demonstrating that we feel with you.
ES SIRUMEM HAYASTAN!!! ♥ ♥ ♥
And we love you Viktoria and the Hungarian People. Thanks for your comforting words. Hungary should redeem itself and recognize the Armenian Genocide.
Dear Armenians,
I can only say: Sorry, Armenia!
I am not our government. I am a Hungarian woman and I am sooo sorry.
I wish for Armenian people peace and joy and oh, yes peace in your hearts.
I think the people protesting in the streets are just few Hungarians of Armenian descend or Armenians living in Hungary. They are just trying to create the impression as if half of Hungary is protesting or apologizing. This technique is very “Armenian”.
Safarov’s extradition complies with the respective rules of international law and he had been pardoned pursuant to local laws of Azerbaijan. Azerbaijan has the sovereign right to pardon its citizen.
Rashid, hes a confessed murderer that was sentenced to life in prison..And iIts amazing that your people make a murder a national hero. just goes to show what Turks are made out of.. The only reason hes a hero is because he killed an Armenian who was sleep. What a coward..
Also Rashid those lands belong to Armenians, always have always will be.. Get used to it..
Rashid.. you are the perfect example of someone who has no clue what they are talking about… but then again.. most Azeris and Turks will do everything to create some sort of confusion or in their idiotic way to prove what Armenians are and do is as bad if not worst to cover your ugly actions..
Well.. reality check.. actions speak louder than words.. Azeris and Turks showed over and over how uncivilized and cold blooded you can be…the world knows who Azerbaboobs are and who Turkey is…I am referring to the govt and those bunch of fascist denialists.. i am not taking everyone in Azerbajian and turkey because I know there are good Azeris and Turks are out there.. very small number but nevertheless… they are not YOU…
we don’t have to chew everything and feed to people like your govts are doing to your people… but then again, that is the only way they can control you.. your brain capacity is not advanced enough to make your own decisions based on true facts.. you will repeat what your govt fed you.. and that is a fact…
keep thinking that Azerbajian has the right.. Azerbajian A MADE UP COUNTRY has NO RIGHT… because a made up country technically does not exist….. so there…..
Nice try. Thanks to Ildigo for clarifying it for you.
And some shameful immature Azeri tactics is to lie to the Hungarian government assuring them that Safarov would serve the rest of his term in Azerbaijan and set him free. I am sure the Hungarian government regrets thinking that you were civilized people whose word could be trusted.
Another cheap Azeri tactics is to kill you own people in Khojaly and blame it on Armenians.
Rashid,
You are brain washed.
You better study the history of Artsakh ( ex-Nagorno Gharabagh), the war run for a freedom and the chain of events in Khojaloo and Maragha.
Khojaloo bitter events were clearly the outcome of Ayaz Mottalebov vs opponents
political game.
Your so called “country” with no-longer-than-a-century history is definitely in need of clear minded people to find herself in the family of cultured Europian family.
I say Armenia officially recognize Artsakh now.
The hungarian people however should not witness their flag burning, burn their prime ministers photo instead or the Azeri flag.
Dear Rashid,
i can make you sure that the people on the streets are average hungarians who feel ashamed by their government, can be that there are some who are from armenian descendend but not all of them! I am for example not relative with any armenians (as far as i know) and i live outside of hungary but im going to be there tomorrow in Budapest and protest with other people for justice. I really hope that the government will apologize.
We dont try to look bigger than we are, maybe you think we are just few people but even if its a few for you, think of it that we are there for the armenians.
Otherwise some armenians burned the flag of my nation which hurts, but i thought that those people dont represent the whole nation and maybe they burnt it as a message for the government and not for the nation.
I also want to tell at this point that Sarkisian can cut the diplomatic relations with the government of Hungary but he cannot fordbid and cannot cut the private relations between citizens. Armenian people are welcome in Hungary and i hope its also safe for us to visit your beautiful country.
Peace!
Curiously no one else has-except this servent of the Armenian people- commented on ex U.S.Ambassador, John Evan’s very positive remarks up above.
Also my SUGGESTIONS>/
That the Criminal Azeri officer be immediately handed back to prison in Hungary where he must serve LIFE SENTENCE AND….
the deal ,if proved was related with this issue as unlawfully made between Govt.s of Azerbaijan and Hungary be cancelled and monies received returned.
Mr. Evans has also indicated that this horrendous act testifies that on the other side of the border the Hate factor is not only alive but by said country’s Gov.t and president being encouraged further….
I am not sure about the real behind this bad action but I can say you we always follows the laws and we are against terrorism and crimes!!!
Btw Armenians, stop burn our flag! Should we do the same right now?
Kele-warrior…
As said numerious times… the flag burning was a mistake and we all apologized for it. yes it should not have happened but it was the first reaction to the WORST news a country can receive for someone who were sentenced to life for taking an innocent life and not a national hero.. Hope YOU understand the reaction…
However, Armenians at large know this was wrong and apologized and explained it was not against the whole nation… not against the people….
As an Armenian I apologized to all Hungarian people for such an act…. and hope that Hungarians will continue to stand with us and support….
You may follow the laws and against terrorism and crimes but your govt believes otherwise otherwise they would not hand over the terrorist and the criminal on a silver platter to his mother ship….
Dear kele-warrior, when the time changed to oil and and money and corruption, even your Hungarian authorities will forget the color of your beloved country’s flag!!!
Yes, burning the flag of your country was wrong, Those brave Hungarians, who thrown those invading barbarian Turks out of your beloved land must be respected by entire Armenian nation of the world!!
Kele-warrior
Please note that the reason for all this mess is your Government, and that of Azerbaijan. We Armenians have nothing against any Hungarians, we are brothers. However, it should be your duty to know why a convicted murderer who hacked a sleeping man to death was released from jail and transferred to Baku.
We are outraged against your Government, not the Hungarian people, who incidently have fallen victim like us, in this tacit deal mess.
If any flag should have been burned it should have been the Azerbaijani flag, any by you the Hungarian people, for making a mockery out of your judicial system, nationhood and people. This fascism of Azerbaijan is a normal thing to spit over Hungary and lie to its officials in the words of Benedek Zsigmond.
Hungary should further recognize the Armenian Genocide, which is recognized my most European nations. Until then Armenia is furious at this great injustice.
shame to Azerbaijan:
http://mno.hu/belfold/itt-a-bizonyitek-hazudtak-az-azeriek-1102783
Botond,thanks for this site. This shows the true face of the Azeri liars & what type of a government it is.
Governments come and go because they have failed their people. To the people of Hungary and Armenia I should say that your situation is not unique. As a native born American, the last couple of years here have been quite disturbing. We now have leaders here that want to change our way of life and I for one feel that our liberties and voice are being suffocated too. I think a lot of the posters here are from America and they are expressing their personal feelings. Unfortunately, some of the same arguments about the disattachment of the government from the people are also true in America. I just want to see any government reflect the will of the people. Recently, someone bold enough stood up in front of the nation and said the government is supposed to be working for the people and he got ridiculed!
There’s an old idiom that seems appropriate once again.
“You’re getting too big for your britches”.
Dear Rashid,
Believe whatever you want if it makes you feel better but we feel ashamed of the actions of our courts and government right now for this injustice against Armenia and we stand with Armenians and not the Azeris who look like savages in our eyes.
The Hungarian Government must declare this dishonourable deal null and void. This barbaric act was committed on Hungarian soil and international judicial agreements are bound by ethical principals. An oil-rich despot
not only made a fool of the Hungarian justice but directly insulted the conscience and reputation of a civilized nation.
For me, the apology of the Hungarian people does help to ease the pain, but it does not fill the stomach, it is the government of the Hungary who did the wrong and must do the appropriate thing that needs to be done to clean up for their mess, after all it was NATO exercise what about their leadership, are they not guilty at all?
Let me guess, the Hungarian government still wants its 3 billion euro?
Bunch of whores.
What does Safarov’s release mean for NATO?
What does Safarov’s release mean for The European Union?
In my opinion, the Government of Hungary has forfeited its right to belong to either. That is of course if NATO and the European Union are really committed to human rights and freedom.
If Hungary doesn’t get booted from both, The United States should stop funding these organizations. The ball is in Europe’s court.
So President Obama, your “disappointment” just doesn’t quite make it.
John, Gayane, Gaytzag, Boyajian, and others: I have been working on a small book in which I hope to shed what light I can on the subjects you are interested in. Probably it will be in form of an e-book with a print-on-demand option. And not expensive. Maybe next spring. In the meantime, I share your indignation at what has happened and what it tells us about the continuing historical threat to Armenians. God knows there is plenty of blame to go around, but this last bit was shameful, cynical and a violation of normal international legal procedure.
Ambassador, please let all of us know when this book comes out. Im very much looking forward to reading it..
Absolutely… I am also interested in reading it..
Thank you sir….
<<Safarov’s extradition complies with the respective rules of international law and he had been pardoned pursuant to local laws of Azerbaijan. Azerbaijan has the sovereign right to pardon its citizen.<<
By praising Ramil Safarov you, the Azerbaijani nation, officially grant any Armenian the moral license to kill Azeris.
As for Hungary: to hell with it.
Ayo AA jan that is exactly what Azeribajian just did with their actions…
Correction,
There are also Azeri people living in Iran, they are not part of Tatar-Turks tribes, please when you are calling Azerbaijan you are including real Azeri people of Iran as well. They have excellent neighborly relationship with Armenia!!You are welcome to call a correct name, for a fake Azerbaijani republic, such as Azer baboons or Tatar-Turks republic!! We should never insult our Persian friends!!
“By praising Ramil Safarov you, the Azerbaijani nation, officially grant any Armenian the moral license to kill Azeris.”
What a load of crap. This is unacceptable no matter how angry you are.
This shows the whole world that there is no way Armenians can ever live under Azerbaijani rule.
The whole world must now recognize Artsakh as part of Armenia!!
That is for sure…
This is the golden ticket to get Artsagh under Armenia WITHOUT ANY FURTHER NEGOTIATIONS.. THE END…
Thank you Mr. Evans, you bear in you the image of our Creator, you are reflecting that every time when you are defending the justice , unfortunately these days not much high ranking personality have the courage of doing the same , I will get your book when it gets published, and I wish to meet you one day, may God bless you.
I believe the return of Safarov has given Aliyev his hero to go forth since his impatient generals want to use their new toys against Armenia.
The question now is will the CSTO charter signed by the Presidents of Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia and Tajikistan on 7 Oct, 2002 hold any water?
The CSTO charter reaffirmed the desire of all participating states to abstain from the use or threat of force. Signatories would not be able to join other military alliances or other groups of states, while aggression against one signatory would be perceived as an aggression against all.
I have not heard of Russia commenting on the agreement lately.
Assume that CSTO will not help Armenia in case of war. Correct me if I’m wrong but, if the the war is in Artsakh, which is not recognized by any country at the moment, CSTO would not have to do anything. If Azerbaijan attacks Armenia, still assume that the CSTO countries will not want to join in on the fight. Is the bond between the CSTO countries that strong that they would send their soldiers to die in a war they have no direct part in?
Somebody mentioned that Artsahk isn’t officialy a country. Thereby CSTO agreements don’t cover it. The reader should know that Azeri forces have been firing into Armenia proper for the last several years too!
Should the situation get any more critical, Sarkisyan had better check his back to see who will follow him before deciding if Artsakh will become Armenia’s 11th province.
Darwin,
We should make Armenia as strong as possible, we don’t trust CSTO, and even NATO, we have enough intelligent and weaponry and strenght to fight not only against Azerbaboons, but against invading Turks as well.. we did that in Sardarabad, and NKR war, with a very limited weaponry and man power in a very harsh circumstances and condition!!Our unity is our strenght. Each patriotic Diaspora Armenian is a potential warrior against our enemies!! Armenia’s army should open the door for Diaspora Armenians just like Israel, so we can participate with military drills and exercises and maneuvers, we can easily make one million professional and effective soldiers in a very short time. Remember we were the back bone of Soviet military in 2-nd world war against Nazi Germany!!
I would not talk about Russia lightly. All week long maneuvers have been going on with Russian troops in Armenia.along with the other treaty members. Russia will not let the Caucasus fall from its grasp. The United States and its partners tried to get involved and now you can see what that’s gotten us into!
I think the real enemy is still Azerbaijan and Armenia must not sacrifice it’s deplomacy with Hungry, another Christian nation over their politician’s deviant behavior.
If we go wrong with hungry it will be a win for Turkey and Azerbaijan. Believe me. It seems that Hungarian Priminister’s days in the office is numbered.
Turks and Azeris will try their luck in creating a gap between as many nations and Armenia as possible. One way is by claiming brotherhood with Hungarians which is pure non-sense. Hungarians may be decende from Huns but Huns were totally different from the original turkic invadors to Anatolia. And their glory time was earliest 500 years before. Today’s Hungarians are mostly Europeans and some of their cultural practices and Magyar lanuage is Hun.
Today’s Hungry has more in common with Armenia in terms of faith. Also, like Armenians they had their own struggles.
On the other hand, Hungry must change it’s leaders and bring people to govern who are not currupt. The wound can hell, but only if Armenia sees Hungarian government taking significant measures to reverse the adverse affect of Ramil’s extradition to prevent dimplomatically chronic outcomes.
This is one example of international crisis which tests the world as a whole. We know now, then what?
Neither Armenia, Hungarians, and the international community can afford letting this go unsettled. Hungarians, with their economic hardship must not let their government continue making wroing decisions which affect them so negatively.Because, seemingly the economic hardship is related to ramil’s exterdition, which makes the government at fault for more than just what took place few days ago.
People of both countries must strive to become even closer, rather further. We must not fool ourselves and make Azerbaijan and Turkey reach their goals of seeing another two Christian nations split.
Perhaps it’s time we refuse to continue attending negotiation sessions sponsored by the Minsk group. It’s obvious the Azeris are ammoral and have no regard whatsoever for the “rule of law”. So why bother discussing anything further? Artsak is ours and always has been. The people there have a right to self determination and they have expressed it clearly. Tell the Azeris to go to hell, we have nothing further to discuss and while you’re at it, tell the Turks the same and rip up the protocols. It’s obvious the Turks never meant to take them seriously anyway.
As for the Hungarian Gov’t — are these the same people who gave us the “Hungarian Freedom Fighters” I and many Armenians admired in the 50’s for standing up to the Soviets? Shame on you! I’d rather starve than compromise my integrity for ANY amount of Azeri petro dollars.
We are fortunate indeed in having our loyal, trustworthy, Ambassador John Evans still always behind us, still always courageous enough to stand up and speak the truth.
I’m obliged to say that I love the Hungarianns… my dentist is an Hungarian…
<<I think the real enemy is still Azerbaijan and Armenia must not sacrifice it’s deplomacy with Hungry, another Christian nation over their politician’s deviant behavior.<<
You sound as if we have a choice, we don't. Hungary forced us.
As for Christian? I am not a Christian but indeed Armenian.
Defensiveness is a very Christian attitude indeed.
According to a famous Armenian writer Christianity was the worst thing that ever happened to Armenia – I agree:
"Oh! Fathers! Oh! Forefathers! If, in the place of these monasteries which abound in our country you had built fortresses; in the place of these holy crosses and vases which exhausted your wealth you had bought weapons; instead of burning fragrant incense in our churches you had burned gunpowder; our country would be fortunate now." – Hakob Melik Hakobian (Raffi)
And I believe it is Christianity that makes the Armenian government to scared to recognize Artsakh as part of Armenia whereas Azerbaijan would have done so in an instant if the roles were reversed. Because they are Muslims.
And please, stop calling Europeans Christians. They are not. The only ones who regard Europe as "Christian" are the Muslim fundamentalists busy conquering it.
Anyway, if I were the president of Armenia I would officially proclaim Artsakh as part of Armenia right away. Because unlike Serj Sarkisyan I'm not a Christian.
Our nation is fighting a heroic battle for survival. At the point being with its hands shackled.
Vrej,
I do not quite agree that Christianity was the worst thing that happened to us. True,
we suffered a lot for being Christian, but if we did not adopt Christianity Persians would have assimilated us log time ago.
Even in today’s world, look at our assimilation rates in Christian countries and in Muslim countries.
Vrej,
I disagree. Not because I consider myself a follower of Jesus Christ, but objectively. Respect the choice of our forefathers who welcomed Jesus Christ to the world and have become the first nation to accept Christianity as official religion. Christianity thus has become an integral part of being an Armenian. The other part of us is Paganism that existed before 301AD. Were Pagan Armenians more belligerent than Christian Armenians? I don’t think so. Don’t refer to Tigran the Great, please, since it was a unique case in all of the history of the Armenians.
Raffi didn’t mean that Christianity was the “worst thing that ever happened to Armenia”. He just wished that if Armenians (not specifically Christians) were more warlike and less sedentary and culturally advanced, they could perhaps better defend their nation. But then how anyone, including Raffi, knows how a national posture and character are being formed? Besides, Christian Armenians were not the only nation who couldn’t blunt the massive attacks of various invaders –Arabs, Seljuk Turks, the Mongols, etc. Some of these nomadic warriors were able to conquer vast territories from Central Asia to the gates of Vienna. What do you expect of Armenians? To halt their advances at the cost of inevitable death? Also, there were many other famous Armenian writers who accepted Christianity as blessing for Armenians, Narekatsi being the most prominent of them.
It is not Christianity that makes the Armenian government to wait with the recognition of Artsakh’s independence, but pure politico-military considerations. Don’t be silly.
Defensiveness is not a Christian attitude. Love for thy neighbor is. But there is also a warning: “Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and tear you.” — Matthew 7:6. The meaning of this Christ’s teaching being: do not offer your doctrine to those violent and abusive people who would growl and curse you; nor to those especially debased and profligate who would not perceive its value, would trample it down, and would abuse you. We should remember this.
Dear Vrej
I am not a perfect Christ follower, but I always do my best, and there is no force can make me to be a fallower of Mohammad, and I can’t force you either.
For me Artsakh is united with motherland from the time it was liberated from the Azeri control or occupation , there is no way, and not even a choice to think about going back to be occupied again by Azeri, it is impossible.
I look at Artsakh without any doubt in my mind as a part of the Armenia , and I do my best to be helpful to the people living in there to become prosperous and safe. So help me God.
I am more then happy that out Hungarian friends have said it is a mistake. And I do think they did not intend harm in the first place!!!!!
All the best!
Even Nazis never brayed in the media to demand Jewish blood. They kept murder on the down low. But the fascists among the Azeris and their government do, and they do so with gusto:
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/09/201293953565974.html
They – meaning those who state such things at the state level – will try to kill every single Armenian. After they rape and torture the women. Our brothers and sisters are fighting for a lot more than land.
The pics we see of Safarov are of when he was trim and young. Today he looks like a fat, haggard, middle aged used Trabant salesman. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
He would last less than a day in the mountains even if there was no shooting. Let him come visit the western slopes with his new entourage. I’m sure we will see him soon with binoculars scanning the frontier, after four months of Jenny Craig and treadmill.
Somewhere there are silent, repressed and decent Azeris. Those of us with friends from Baku and Sumgait are often told of them, and that some helped shelter Armenians. Let’s remember them too. If they say a word, they go to prison and get tortured.
I hope one or two can comment here.
the woman in brown dress, to Safarov’s left holding hands with another woman is Azerbaijan MP Ganira Pashayeva. A virulent Armenophobe, an AG Denialist, and anti-AG proselytizer.
Her favourite color: Armenian red.
Her favourite Facebook hero: Psyaxopath Safarov.
Her favourite expression: ‘so-called “Armenian genocide” ‘.
A little off topic, but speaking of betrayal….
I was reading a Turkish book called Red Friday (Kirimizi Cuma)- (Hrant Dink was killed on a Friday) by Nedim Sener (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nedim_%C5%9Eener).
The books is about the events surrounding the death of, and what took place after Hrant Dink’s murder. At the end of the book he includes a picture of an elderly Armenian woman holding a picture of Hrant Dink with “1.500.000+1” written beneath it.
here’s his commentary on this picture: “So what is she trying to say? That Hrant Dink is the latest victim of the Genocide. And this is how the West views it as well.”
Later: “I showed this photo at the courthouse in which I was on trial for my book “The Dink Murder and Intelligence Lies.” And this is what I said in court:
“The woman in this picture is an Armenian citizen, Hrant Dink, while also Armenian, is a Turkish citizen. A woman from a different country is seeking justice for a citizen of OUR country. Aren’t the Turkish courts and government going to shed light on this murder? What I want is for our children to say today and tomorrow that ‘we are honorable people, and we won’t commit genocide (he didn’t say we DIDN’T commit genocide)’. For this to happen, the Hrant Dink murder must be solved. Those who were alive in 1915 are no longer around, but those who live today shouldn’t be weighed down with the blame of genocide in the future. This is what I work for.”
He continues: “If light is not shed on Hrant Dink’s murder, all of us will face the shame of being the citizen of a country who covered up the murder of a Turkish citizen of Armenian descent. The ECHR has already given Turkey a lesson in law and justice. Turkey was found guilty 3 times by the court in the Hrant Dink murder for ‘not recognizing his freedom of speech’, ‘not taking steps to protect his life when he was alive’, and ‘not providing an adequate investigation that would put those government officials responsible on trial.’ In response to all the knocks of justice on its door, the Republic of Turkey does not answer the call. The murderers have already killed Hrant Dink. But I do not want to allow the feeling of justice inside of me to be murdered by the way the various bodies of Turkish government have treated and viewed the murder of Hrant Dink. I refuse to comply with government officials attempting to cover up the murder of a man who was so wronged when he was alive.”
So yes, Jda, those who speak up do go to jail. But this man said all this in a Turkish courthouse and is now out of jail. And he continues to write controversial books. And there are many more like him. Look up what Yasar Kemal did to prevent the destruction of the Holy Cross Church on Akdamar Island.
There is not ONE Moslem dominated country on this planet that will allow a “non believer” to speak freely.The west doesn’t do anything about it. But now the problem has reached the shores of their own countries and they are at witts end to solve their own problem. Let them eat cake!
Its Akhtamar Island, not Akdamar Island. Turks are world champions in Turkifying other peoples’ cultural edifices or geographical toponyms. Disgusting trait of a people who had virtually nothing of their own.
RVDV,
My comment had to do with good or dissenting Azeris going to jail and being tortured.
I recognize that Turkey is evolving to become a freer society than it was, as well as in comparison to other ME societies apart from Israel. At least in the bigger cities.
I still think that if I went to my grandparents’ towns to live, I would not get the expat treatment scads of moronic English people receive. In fact, I think I would be murdered by the local police acting through idle and angry youth.
If I were not Armenian, I would appreciate these advances more. Unfortunately the freer Turkey still has a very large percentage of the population, as you have admitted, that wants all Armenians dead.
I agree with JDA… even though there is slower movement..it still does nto excuse majority of Turks who continue to drump up the genocidal thought process and backwards thinking as their govt.. so no i don’t believe Turkey is doing everything to be democratic and there are not enough of evidence that they will get there anytime soon.
The picture with Safarov surrounded by devil’s advocates is a good example of who few of the prepatrators are in the Azerbaijan’s political persutes to harm Armenia.
This just shows how cultistic is their political machinary.
<<It is not Christianity that makes the Armenian government to wait with the recognition of Artsakh’s independence, but pure politico-military considerations.<<
I disagree. You are underestimating psychology in politics. Even Russian experts agree that Armenia's foreign policy is a disaster compared to Azerbaijan's. The sole explanation is not oil, I believe.
<<the woman in brown dress, to Safarov’s left holding hands with another woman is Azerbaijan MP Ganira Pashayeva.<<
Familiar with her. Amazingly, an Armenian priest or something went to Turkey and debated her on Turkish television. If you can call it a debate. She totally humiliated him infront of the Turkish television host, program participants, audience. In my opinion, he should have been thrown in jail upon his return to Armenia.
Long. live. ARMENIA
Sorry, Vrej, you’re inconsistent. Hard to debate. What does psychology in politics or oil have to do with Christianity? Can you refer us to sources where Russian experts “agree that Armenia’s foreign policy is a disaster compared to Azerbaijan’s”? There are many flaws in Armenian’s foreign policy and its cadres, but I’ve never heard Russians saying such a thing explicitly.
A priest is not a good politician.
I agree that Armenian forign policy lacks the diplomatic punch needed to raise Armenian out of it’s problems with Azerbaijan.
But, a priest is not a good politition or debator. Pashayeva thinks, breaths, eats, and dreams about destroying Armenia. Of course she is trained hater and has all the words to spute at any Armenia who comes along.
However, that said: Freeing Ramil should bring humiliation to her rather than we think it is victory for Azerbaijan.
As we see in Hungaria: The citizens of that country have waken up and change maybe in the horizon.
I think visit by the priest is just one of the many useless political meetings Armenia and Turkey carry out which never yields solutions.
Long live Armenia
Verj,
I feel that you want to put all the blame on Christianity. Armenian nation as a whole fully embraced Christianity, which became the central part of our culture. Never underestimate what our church has done to preserve our national identity and culture throughout our history. I am very happy that we adopted Christianity and remained Christians throughout those years.
The reason why our foreign policy is soft because we live in a very hostile environment and do not have very good diplomats-has nothing to do with Christianity.
Hi Armenians
I am a Hungarian and like most of my countrymen I am very ashamed sorry about f Hungarian Primeminister for these actions. I love Armenians and this has nothing to do with Hungarian people , we stand firmly beside Armenians against Turks anytime, really soooooo sorry about this big stupid mistake from Hungarian Primeminister.
Jakob
It wasn’t a mistake on the part of the Hungarian government; it was a calculated move because your government KNEW that the Azeris would set the bastard free. Nonetheless, oil money looked more attractive than morality. If you’re really sorry and are beside the Armenians against the Turks, press your government to recognize the Armenian genocide. By doing this, you’ll clear your name. Otherwise, I personally turned from being a Hungarian culture lover (Liszt, Kalman, Bartok, etc.) to the one who now remembers that your nation is ethnically derived from Turkic tribes. Sorry.
More than 1000 years have passed since the Armenians first settled in Hungary.
During Hungary’s war against the Ottoman Turks, the country’s Armenian minority donated 100,000 forints to the war effort and later another 15,000 forints to repair damage caused by the war. Later, during the 1700s financial crises, the community also donated large sums of money as a national debt to their adopted country. A major financial donation was by the Armenians of Szamosújvár towards the establishment of the Hungarian Academy of Sciences.
Most prominent was the role the Armenians played in the 1848-49 War of Independence against Austrian rule. Hundreds of Armenian officers and enlisted men were killed in the war effort which was led by thirteen top generals, including three Hungarian-Armenians: Erno Kiss (Bzdikian), Vilmos Lazar (Ghazarian) and Janos Czetz (Tzetzian). The first two were executed by the Austrians and the third, Janos Czetz managed to escape to Argentina. Even today, Hungary marks the occasion of their martyrdom on October 6 as a national day of mourning, an event in which the Armenian community of Hungary also participates to remember the Armenian heroes.
serko,very interesting & where did you get this information about Hungarian Armenians,support & Armenian officers?Let me know please.
VTiger
I used some facts from the AGBU’s article “1000 Years of History: The Armenians of Hungary” posted at http://www.agbu.org/publications//article.asp?A_ID=327. Cheers.
While talking about justice, cannot you remember HODJALI massacres, and Turkish diplomats murdered by ASALA terrorists!
Shame on you!
Vagt:
Do you know of any savage acts that the Azeris and their cousins Turks have done against the Armenians BEFORE Hodjali and BEFORE ASALA terrorist attacks? No? Then go educate yourself and then come back. Otherwise, stop potraying Armenians as initiators of violence. Miserable Turks and Tatar Azeris like you are the initiators of intolerance, inhumanity, and barbarism. Learn your history from independent sources.
Vagt, it is wrong to suggest that the ax murder of Gurgen Margaryan is comparable to or justified by Khojali or ASALA operations.
Khojali massacre was a tragic event in an ongoing war that has been mis-reported in Azeri news. Armenians gave ample warning and a safe corridor but Azeris used their own people as human shields who got caught in the unavoidable crossfire. The reports have been distorted and the pictures used as evidence for ‘massacre’ were taken from other battles outside of Karabakh. Armenians regret the tragic death of innocent Azeri women, children and other non-combatants. In any case, it was an event that took place during a war, where unintended tragedies sometimes occur. Safarov killed a sleeping Armenian colleague at a NATO Partnership for Peace training school. These are very different circumstances.
ASALA targeted the diplomats of a country that refused to take responsibility for the genocide of Armenians and carried out ongoing destruction of Armenian artifacts and culture. It was never a movement widely lauded by Armenians, but seen as the desperate act of those trying to gain the attention of an indifferent world to the plight of the Armenians. Nonetheless, it has been about thirty years since ASALA carried out any operations, and there is NO connection to the Azeris or to the Armenians of Karabakh.
The Karabakh war is about the right to self-determination and territorial control.
It should not be turned into a dispute driven by ethnic hatred. Turkey and their cousins, the Tatar Turks of Azerbaijan have turned it into this.
You must be a turk using Hungarian name, Hungarians thrown invading turks out of Hungary way way before even your great great grand father was born!!
We also remember the 1.5 million, the Hamidian maesecers, the Samgate, Baku porgrom, Driving Armenians out of Nakhijevan, destroying midevel Armenian ceteries and throwing our beautiful cross stones into Seals river. And now we have Safari to remember for the future.
We also remember how Azerbaijan was placed on
he map in 1918.
Azerbaijan’s cowardous acts ways gives us more to remember.
Do these denialists have anything else to bring up except Khojali? Apparently not.. and even Khojali can’t be used against Armenians.. how said for them Azeris and Turks who have NOTHING to bring up against Armenians …
GB are you talking to me ?
I am a Hungarian and I am supporting Armenians here , I like many Hungarians
wanted to say sorry for what our stupid Primeminister did but he did this stupid mistake by himself it has nothing to do with Hungarians and many Hungarians have protested .
Yes of course we fought the Turks and stopped them from spreading Islam into Europe that is why the Church bell tolls in Europe every hour on every day.
Anyway I hope things settle down and I hope the international agencies condemn
Azerbaijan for this.
No Jakob I am not talking to you ..I am talking to the guy name Vagt.
I know Hungarian well and I am so sorry, that few Armenians burn Hungarian flag, instead of Turkish and their cousin Azer baboons flag.
We are suffering in the hand of these barbarians for over 1000 years now, at least Hungarians thrown them out, but we are still surrounded by millions of them, even today, where we have lost entire our historical ancient Armenian land, where our churches, monuments and cemeteries erased off the face of the earth with people!!
http://iwpr.net/report-news/azerbaijan-famous-medieval-cemetery-vanishes
When did Hungary stop Ottoman expansionism in Europe? If I remember correctly, Medieval Hungary was completely destroyed by the forces if Suleiman the Magnificent at Mohacs. Hungary then became contested between the Ottoman empire and the Habsburgs. It was the Habsburgs who TWICE stopped the Ottomans at Vienna. THAT ended Ottoman Expansionism, that perhaps why those church bells ring today. The credit for stopping the Turks goes to them, not Hungarians. You don’t get credit for being part of the Habsburg dynasty when they stopped the Ottomans.
serko: Ok, I admit I may have exaggerated a bit there. I read ONE Russian expert saying that Azerbaijan’s foreign policy was more successful than that of Armenia due to oil factor (which is obvious). However, I sustain that this is not the sole explanation albeit the major one. I never said oil has anything to do with Christianity..
Ed: “Should”. That’s the key word. However, in reality it is WE who feel humiliated because we couldn’t block his extradition. I mean, I feel humiliated. Can’t speak for others, though.
Sella: Note that I am not blaming the Armenian church as an institution, I am saying that the Christian mentality is weakening us (and not only us, look at the post-Christian Western countries and how defensive they are towards Islam despite their superiority in about every field imaginable).
I’m not calling for abolition of Christianity. I’m just saying we should be more aware of how it affects us in politics. As an example, take Erdogan. He is always serious, never smiles. Very arrogant, self-assured and aggressive person. I doubt he would have had that sinister look about him were he a Christian or a Buddhist politician.
Also, the identity argument is something I keep hearing all the time, but I never saw any proofs. One cannot draw such retrospective historical conclusions. We simply do not know what we would have been today without Lusavorich. We might have been Persians, yes, but we might just as well not. Look at the Kurds, for example.
“The reason why our foreign policy is soft because we live in a very hostile environment and do not have very good diplomats-has nothing to do with Christianity.”
Yeah, and too small population.
Again, I’m not calling for abolition of Christianity. Just philosophying.
Vrej
I hear you. I think I got your point better after you explained. And there is, of course, a rational kernel in what you say. But we are who we are, and it took thousands of years for our national character and mentality to form and be as it is. Christianity played an important and mostly positive role in it. Remember that during the stateless centuries our ancestors would gather around the churches and church schools as the only institutions capable of preserving the vitality of the nation. But then again, were pre-Christian Armenians more bellicose? No historical evidence shows that. Even Tigran the Great, a Pagan himself, wouldn’t take the lives of the conquered foreign rulers but would make them his vassals instead. He wouldn’t as well mass murder other nations, as Turks did to the Armenians, Greeks, or Assyrians, but would put their artisans, masons, and other laborers to service for Armenia.
If we become arrogant, self-assured and aggressive like Erdogans or murderer (Ottoman) Turks in general, then how are we different from them? I don’t know about you, but I wouldn’t like to belong to a murderer and unremorseful nation.
Without Grigor Lusavorich and Vardan Mamikonian we, most likely, not definitely but most likely, would become Persian Zoroastrians and then, with the arrival of Islam, Muslims. No, I’m proud of what I am: a Christian and an Armenian.
I see and understand Verj’s point…
“I know Hungarian well and I am so sorry, that few Armenians burn Hungarian flag, instead of Turkish and their cousin Azer baboons flag.”
Hungary forced them to burn it and there is no reason for us apologizing for that. However, I agree they should have burnt Azeri and Turkish flags as well. Not to mention the EU flag.
Just my opinion.
LONG LIVE ARMENIA
I concur Vrej… maybe it was a bit extreme but Turks and Azeris and thoes countries that kiss Turkey’s and Azerbajiani’s behind have done worst things than burning a flag.. Hungarians should understand it was not directed to them, that gesture was against their govt…
I have met quite a few high school and university students that are visiting or working here in the US this summer. They all seem to be a decent sort. One thing that everyone of them have is a complete lack of knowledge of their own country’s hstory. The closest response when talking to them that has any substance pertaining to the genocide was a young girl’s response, “there was a war”.
How can you have a war against your own citizens? Obviously “The War” is being taught today in Turkish schools as a cover for the atrocities against her own people. I don;t believe the present government of Turkey has any intention of confronting the wall of silence past or present. Are we to hate their children?
To Serko
I dont know and cant know that if what you said about Hungarian Primeminister is true but I agree it was stupid move for him to extaradite that guy back to Azerbaijan but I cant agree with you for certain and say without question Hungarian Primeminister knew they would set him free after all this act has embarrased Hungary and the Primeminister.
I cant convince you to view Hungarians any other way than you now choose but all i can say is the Hungarian people have gone out of their way to appologise (even though its not their actions but very small number of people in Governement who act without consent of Hungarian people) they have protested in Hungary and side by side with Armenians in USA even after Armenians burned Hungarian Flag they still protest on behalf of ARmenians they did this from their hearts Serko they have nothing to gain from Armenians we dont need Armenians we did that to say we are sorry about that action many other countries I dont think would go so far if their Government made same mistake.
I know many Armenian people I have lots Armenian friends I am a Hungarian I appologise for stupid actions of our primeminister but I tell you something Serko we are not Turks I know you are hurt so I will hold back to sink to your level of insults Hungary is a very civilised European Country I know my nations history very wekk and I know Armenian history very well to in fact part of Armenian stock the Urartians were an non indo european agglutinative speaking people same as Hungarians but in any case plse dont casll us Turks for we are not and never were … we do not speak a Turkic language , we are Christians and we kept Turks/Muslims out of Europe and we have had Armenians in Hungary for many many years and we have treated them very well in fact I have distant Armenian blood in my Hungarian family … Serkom please donbt be a radical against Hungarian people and please see that Hungarians are going out of there way to show solidarity with Armenians .
To me, it is out of the question that your prime minister knew what would happen if your government released the Azeri criminal. The Armenian side was assured that such a thing was not possible. Yet, after receiving the oil money, your government sold their souls to Azeri Turks. Again, if Hungarians want to clear your good name, let your local, grassroots, and human rights organizations press your government to recognize the Armenian Genocide.
And I didn’t call the Hungarians Turks. I said: “your nation is ethnically derived from Turkic tribes”. I didn’t mean any offence by reiterating the historical fact known to everybody. In the 8th century, some Magyars (Hungarians) moved from the Ural Mountains to an area between the Volga and Don rivers, where the Turkic Khazar tribes were living. One such Turkic tribe, the Kabars (Khavars) joined the Magyar tribal confederation. It has been speculated that the eponym “Hungarian” derives from the Turkic word “On Ogur” (Ten Arrows). The Magyars then became the vassals of the Khazars and interbred heavily with them. In the late 9th century, under the leadership of chieftains Lebedias and Árpád, the Hungarians moved west into modern-day Hungary.
–Source: Arthur Koestler, The Thirteenth Tribe: The Khazar Empire and Its Heritage
these are sites made by Hungarian people
https://www.facebook.com/SorryArmenia
https://www.facebook.com/HungariansLoveArmenians?refid=8&_ft_
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoXDB1DDAIA&feature=related
above Hungarian Professor speaking Armenian and appologise for Hungarian Primeminister.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQ_eGPZQNk8
Jakob,
Thanks for the objective stance on the issue and thanks for the apology. Believe me, I am not the only Armenian who appreciates the solidarity of Hungarian people with us regarding this incidence. The Hungarian flag should never have been burned. I find it possible that the Hungarian government did not expect that Azerbaijan would free the criminal. However, they should’ve never sent him to Azerbaijan. Otherwise, I have great respect and admiration for Hungarian people and hope that we can be friends forwever.
I second that Gina.
Here’s an interesting article from RFE/RL on the psychology of all this in Azerbaijan.
http://www.rferl.org/content/filling-in-the-gaps-azerbaijani-media-construction-of-narrative-over-ramil-safarov-case-armenia/24703619.html
Thanks for this link! Everyone should read this analysis of how the Azeri media has manipulated the facts and played on Azeri citizens frustration and anti-Armenian feelings to justify Safarov’s elevation to national hero.
good link Random:
highly recommend Armenians watch the embedded vid: astonishing and frightening to see the ugly results of decades of demonizing Armenians by the authorities in Azerbaijan.
Ordinary people in Azerbaijan find it quite acceptable to murder an Armenian, because he, quote, “insulted” something or other. The so called “insult” is another in a long line of Azeri fabrications, of course.
But even it were true, it is barely comprehensible that these seemingly ordinary looking people find it quite normal for a sleeping man to be hacked to death for an “insult”.
Because he was Armenian.
Միայն մեծ զենքով կա Հայոց փրկութիուն.
I had the opportunity to read the article… WOW…very accurate description as to how Azerbajian’s govt feeds frenzy, hatred, and lies … and having no brains of their own, the Azeri people just follow the lead… watching the video of those who believe these coward is a hero just exemplifies how the majority of the people think about such acts.. it is sad..
I also commented on the site because as always some idiots never fail to post idiotic comments…
My friend Avery… here is what our unintelligent friend posted
“It was never proven that he was sleeping either.
– lets say your female cousins, other family members were raped and murdered (and thats how Armenians did the war – Khojaly for instance), and then you come to Hungary, and 2 armenian soldiers start telling you how enjoying it was, what a looser you are not to be able to protect them… and constantly do this. what would you do? If you think armenian, or azeri, or chechen, or abkhaz, or anyone from Caucasus would not react then you dont have ANY idea about the values and morale of that part of the world. your “victim” is the one who started the war, who killed first. Sleeping man.. in Khojaly armenians raped 13 year old girls, old men and women who barely walk, cut a pregnant woman and took an unborn child.. what if one of them was his family member.. or yours, what would you do after being reminded, “Joked”? of course.. armenians are only victims who killed thousands of Azeris, made a terrorist attack in metro.. and then azeris are people who have to tolerate them. very objective. blame the one who started the war – armenians. the reason of all the unhappiness in South Caucasus. “
jakabszilvasi: It’s not we who call you Turks, but you yourselves. For example, Jobbik claims that Hungarians are Turkic rather than Finno-Ugric which is obviously false. Hungarian is a Finno-Ugric language. And that’s not a theory.
Personally I’m amazed that so many Hungarian nationalists would prefer to consider themselves cousins of Turks rather than Finns. Personally I’d prefer to be related to Finns.
As for Armenian-Hungarian relations, it’s too late to fix them. Armenia whined on Hungary for years not to extradite Safarov but Hungary didn’t give a damn. Hungary well knew that Safarov would be greeted as a hero in Baku.
Like Serj Sarkisyan said, we will never forgive Budapest for this humiliating act.
Also, I am proud of the Indo-European Armenian language.
The Hungarian Government in regard of this deceit and dishonor, should terminate all relationships with Azerbaijan. Secondly should recognize Artsakh (Republic of Nagorno-Karabakh)and having very close ties as an independent country!!! So Help them GOD!!!
If we could offer them (Hungarian government) 2-3 billions, they would have gladly done it.
To RVDV
Yes the Hapsburgs finally pushed the Ottomans out of central Europe but much earlier the Hungarians were holding them at bay from entering central Europe and kept them away for sometime.
And about the ringing of the Church Bells yes it was a result of the Hungarians defeating the Turks at the Battle of Belgrade …
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Belgrade_%281456%29
“The meaning of this battle was huge, as it proved that the Hungarian and Serbian Christians could interfere the expansion of the Ottoman empire for 70 years, saving the Christian world, Europe, in that time. The Pope celebrated the victory as well and previously ordered all Catholic kingdoms to pray for the victory of the defenders of Belgrade. Leading to the noon bell ritual that is still undertaken in Catholic and old Protestant churches to this day.”
To Gina, Avery and GB
ThankYou for realising this is a mistake of a stupid Hungarian Government and not the Hungarian people who genuinely like and support the Armenians.
Im aware that Armenian President Sargisyan urged people not to burn Hungarian flag as he said the flag does not represent the few individuals who made that decision and that the people of Hungary have had good relationship with Armenians for hundreds of years.
We understand people were angry with our Government and believe us sooo are we.
To Vrej
Hungarians are not Turkic but there are reasons why Hungarians or some Hungarians have historically not been all too happy with how the FinnoUgrian theory was in some ways presented to them by the Austrians Hapsburgs who were somewhat racist and at the time were comparing ancient Hungarians to something similiar to an eskimo which is actually false but this did not historically leave a nice taste and this is why you see such rejection of that theory amongst Jobbik and so there was a lot of alternative theories of origin presented actually many of the Hungarians who reject FinnUgrian theory dont believe Hungarians were Turkics but something like Scythians or from similiar people that originated from that region but not Turkics actually the Turkic history politics hijack a lot of theories and try to say certain peoples were Turanian when this is not actually true, there were some minority turkic groups such as Khazars and Cumans that assimilated into Hungarian ethnogenesis but also they assimialed intoto Russia and much of Eastern Europe but this did not effect the Hungarian ethnic identity, Hungarians always called themselves Magyars and history shows that they didnt allign themselves with Turkic peoples, Hungarians do not speak a Turkic language.
Vrej you are talking about the actions of one man Primeminister Victor Orban the previous Hungarian Primeminister always rejected any suggestions from Azerbaijan.
Anyway i dont care anymore I am just an individual I like many of my countrymen already said sorry not for something we did but for something 1 stupid Primeminister who calls himself a Hungarian did.
Like I said I have many Armenian friends and heard from many Armenians they accept solidarity of Hungarian people and appology from Hungarian people, I will go with that. If people wanna be as a radical and against me or all Hungarians then its there choice I dont ask anything from them …whatever.
Jakob
Again, no one here said Hungarians were Turks or that Hungarians speak a characteristic Turkic language. You’re knocking at on open door.
In “The Magyars in the Ninth Century” British historian Macartney states that “the problem of their [Magyars] origin have long perplexed scholars”; elsewhere he calls it “one of the darkest of historical riddles”. We know with certainty that Magyars were related to the Finns and that their language belongs to the Finno-Ugrian language family. Thus, Magyars were originally unrelated to Turkic nations. But in the 7-9th centuries Magyars have become the vassals of the Turkic Khazars, as attested by Arnold Toynbee. He states that with the arrival of the Rus (Russians) in the 9th century to the region between Don and Kuban rivers where the Khazars lived and the Magyars moved, the relations between Magyars and Khazars became even closer as the Rus were seen as enemies. It is at this point that, as Arthur Koestler contends in “The Thirteenth Tribe”, “several Khazar tribes joined the Magyars and profoundly transformed their national character”. Says Koestler: “It looks as if the Magyars have received—metaphorically and perhaps literally—a blood transfusion from the [Turkic] Khazars. It affected them in several ways. First, […] till the 10th century both the Magyar and Khazar languages were spoken in Hungary”. As British historian Bury writes, “the result of this double tongue is the mixed character of the modern Hungarian language which has supplied specious argument […] as to the ethnical affinities of the Magyars”. Koestler further contends that “the Magyars have also adopted a form of the Khazar double-kingship”. According to Arab geographer Gardezi, cited in Koestler’s book, “they [Magyars] call their leader Kanda [Hungarian: Kende], but the title of the person who effectively rules them is Jula”. Macartney states that “there is a reason to believe that the first Julas of Hungary were Kabars [one of the Turkic Khazar tribes]”.
I think the oil money was the determining factor for the release of a Turkic Azeri murderer. But it may also be that the Hungarian government followed the distant ethnical affinities with Turkic nations and the blood call. Just my opinion.
Hungarians are clearly a Turkic nation and their language contains at least %15 the Turkish vocabulary . Those who reject their ancient past are motivated by Christianity I advise Armenians to call Hungarians Go back to central Asia where they were originated.
john(?!) the turk
Two words: idiotic comment! No one called the Hungarians a Turkic nation except you. Yes, they interbred with Turkic tribes long ago and their unique Finno-Ugrian language contains Turkic words as a result, but nevertheless they remained uniquely Magyars and Christians.
And they never lived in Central Asia, their ancestors inhabited areas adjacent to the Ural Mountains and then the Don-Dnieper-Kuban rivers basin before moving to Eastern Europe peacefully. You must have mistaken them with your sheep-breeding nomadic ancestors of Central Asia and the Altay Mountains who scorched everything and everyone on their way to Asia Minor where other, more civilized and nobler peoples, lived.
P.S. If the Hungarian language “contains at least %15 (maybe you meant 15%? or this how Turks indicate percentage: %15?) the Turkish vocabulary”, please tell us what percentage of Arabic, Persian, Greek words is the Turkish language made of? And what script were you, Turks, were using before 1920s and what script you’re using today?
By the way, is “John” a Turkish name or maybe it is stolen from Christianity, as most everything that you Turks stole, e.g. Hagya Sophia?
I advise that you stay out of our relations. It’s up to us what to tell or how to treat each other, not up to you.
Further, as far as I know, Hungarians have not engaged in a systematic and intentional annihilation of an entire race as the Turks have. If nothing else, their critical response to their own government’s action today and their obvious disgust by the elevation of a savage to the heights of a hero demonstrate very clearly that you are by far not in the same league when it comes to humanity and civility. Stick that in your head. Yes, there are honest and courageous Turks but they are still the minority. The majority of you sing the praises of the coward and support the Azerbaijani government and its disgusting behavior.
{The 2005 edition of Güncel Türkçe Sözlük, the official dictionary of the Turkish language published by Turkish Language Association, contains 104,481 words, of which about 86% are Turkish and 14% are of foreign origin. Among the most significant foreign contributors to Turkish vocabulary are Arabic, French, Persian, Italian, English, and Greek.}
{Turkic loanwords account for 9.5% in the Hungarian language.}
(from Wiki)
Regarding TLA numbers: I would be highly suspicious of their citation of only 14% foreign origin words.
Since Arabs brought Islam to the Turkic tribes, and since Persians, Armenians, Greeks, Arabs, Assyrians had civilizations much older and more advanced than the Turkic tribes when they came into contact, I have to assume the percentage of loanwords is much higher. Arabs were quite advanced in their time, and I understand Arabic has something like 1 million-2 million words.
I am no linguist, but I would expect the more advanced a civilization, the richer the language – to describe more complex concepts, and more physical objects.
Serko: in Europe they write the percent sign before the number.
Our guest John the Turk lives in Britain (said so in one of his posts, if memory serves)
I agree with Gina!
“or this how Turks indicate percentage: %15?”
Yep.
Avery,
I believe that when Turkey reformed their alphabet, they also reformed the language and removed many Arabic and other loanwords found in Ottoman Turkish. Elif Shafak has written about the old Turkish and found it to be rich and colorful.
But I’m no expert in the Turkish language. If Agop Dilaçar was still around, we could have asked him ;)
Serko.. WELL SAID my friend.. Well said..
Yaya The Turk is no stranger to our pages.. his idiotic comments always makes me laugh..
He is here on our pages for entertainment purposes only… THANK YOU Yayha the Turk for the laugh…
john the turk, how ironic that you yourselves don’t even have 15% Turkish blood left in you anymore and now you are calling Hungarians a Turkic nation. Take a look at yourselves in the mirror and take a look at your Central and East Asian ancestors and tell me if you feel related. Too many Turkish delights seem to have raised your blood sugar level and put you into a delusional state of prolonged unconsciousness.
Ararat jan.. du demq es.. verchnes… mera xndaluts….lol
I have to say that I am impressed by those Hungarians who have chosen to speak up about this whole pardon-the-axe-murderer game and how upset they are about it. How often would you see such a reaction like this in other countries.
Let’s not allow bad politicians to discolor how we view the people.
Thank you.
To Serko
I have read Koestlers book it is quite interesting.
Well its hard to know in that time how much interbreeding as you said took place between Khazars and Magyars but my guess is not that much , why because despite Magyars living in vicinity and under suzerainty of Khazars in the end Magyars were not assimilated and maintained there own language and ethnic designation which seems unusual if interbreeding was a normal thing and considering that Khazars were probably more powerful group at that time, another very interesting point is that Turkic peoples in those times were infamous for being horse riding nomads and had very equestrian culture interestingly the word for horse in Hungarian is of Ugrian origin not Turkic and yes there are some Turkic words in Hungarian and most of them relate to animal husbandry somebody said 9% I think that is too high as there is only 300 odd words of Turkic origin in Hungarian and there are in reality more words of slavic, latin and indo european origin in Hungarian than Turkic. Again this is my point the Turanists always try to overplay these things for there political agendas, Hungarians are an old nation and like all nations they have crossed paths and taken influences from various peoples … khazars was only 1 aspect, they also encountered various Iranian peoples also and in fact assimilated an Iranian people called … Jasz/Jaszgys.
Genetically Hungarians are predominantly a European people , they were a recognised European Christian nation more than 1000 years ago and even before several of there European neighbour nations.
Sorry, Jakob, but it is hard for me to imagine that the Serbian government would hand over an Azeri Turk to Azerbaijan who slayed an ethnic Russian while in Serbia.
Also, I understand from the news that your PM has said the following, I quote: “The [Hungarian] foreign ministry had forecast precisely what types of consequences this or the other decision [extradition or non-extradition] may have [.] Nothing happened after our decision that we would not have reckoned with in advance.” What does this tell you?
don’t be so sure about Serbs, Serko:
{A statue of late Azerbaijani President Heydar Aliyev has been unveiled in a Belgrade park whose renovation was aided by 2 million euros ($2.9 million) from the Azerbaijani government, RFE/RL’s Balkan Service reports. June 08, 2011}
For a mere €2 million they erect a statue to someone who they knew attempted to exterminate and ethnically cleanse fellow Orthodox Christians (not Slavs, but still…)
Imagine what they’s be willing to do for €3 Billion.
I am guessing for the right price, Serbs would prostitute themselves too.
It tells me.. another one bit the dust.. Hungarian govt fell into the oil money trap like every other country who tolerates Azerbajian solely because of the money they can pump in their country… THAT IS IT…
Serbia was among the countries that had voted in favour of Azerbaijan in United Nations General Assembly Resolution 62/243 which was a resolution of the United Nations General Assembly about the situation in Nagorno-Karabakh, region in Azerbaijan that was occupied by Armenian military forces.[5] On the day when Republic of Kosovo official declared its independence from Serbia, Khazar Ibrahim have stated that Azerbaijan “view this illegal act as being in contradiction with international law. Proceeding from this, Azerbaijan’s position is clear: it does not recognise [Kosovo’s] independence”.[6] Azerbaijan has also withdrawn peacekeepers from Kosovo. Turkey has been exerting significant efforts at a senior-level gathering of the Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC) being held in Dakar, Senegal, to have a strongly worded statement lending support to Kosovo’s declaration of independence issued but among some countries Azerbaijan opposed.[7] During the first meeting of Azerbaijan-Serbia intergovernmental commission on 4 November 2011 Co-chairmen of the commission Azerbaijan Minister of Economic Development Shahin Mustafayev showed Azerbaijan’s support. Serbia, in back, have stated that they will keep on supporting Azerbaijan’s position in the conflict against to Armenia.[8] Azerbaijani Culture Center were also opened in Belgrade. The two countries are also planning to cancel visa regyme.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azerbaijan%E2%80%93Serbia_relations
Avery, VTiger
And Muslim Azerbaijan supported the UN General Assembly’s resolution condemning human rights violations by fellow-Muslim Syria. Armenia abstained. There’s always a reason behind a specific UN vote. Serbia’s reason (not that I support it) to vote in favor of the resolution on the situation in Azerbaijan’s occupied territories is Kosovo. Armenia—although it formally has not recognized the unilateral declaration of Kosovo’s independence—has a tendency towards recognition of the independence of new states (e.g. Eastern Timor, Eritrea, etc.) for obvious reasons. The Artsakh parliament passed a declaration welcoming the position of the international community in their respect for rights of the majority of Kosovo population. My example was about a hypothetical individual—not state-level–case. I still don’t think that the Serbs would hand over an Azeri murderer of a Russian officer to Azerbaijan.
Dink convict could be released soon: lawyer
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/Default.aspx?pageID=238&nID=30091&NewsCatID=338
Of course he will… not a surprise move on the genocidal country.. i mean what else would you expect? if they treat their murderors as heros.. they won’t keep them in jail for long.. they need to prove something to their people.. such as .. THIS IS WHAT WE WILL DO TO YOU IF YOU KILL AN ARMENIAN… YOU WILL BE TREATED AS A HERO… lunatic physcos…
To Serko
Serko even when we talk about Hungarian Government in this situation its only a particuliar administration and even then it looks just a few guys acting on their own after all Orban didnt deal this through his Foreign Ministry. And all spectrums of Hungarian political communities is critical of him for these actions.
And what you say about Serbia… which Government ? which administration…?
Milosivic had been accused of a lot of corruption activities within his own country and already someone here points out the statue of of Aliyez in Belgrade Serbia… an orthodox country.
And again I dont buy into the point that you occasionally have alluded to …”distant affinities with Turkic nations and blood call”…
firstly Turkey and Azerbaijan themselves are only Turkic nations to a certain limit … they have a large amount of culture on them that is not necessarily remnant of old Turkic peoples. Genetically Turkey is predominantly not Turkic but more so the genetics of the Turkicised mixed populations of Anatollia(Greeks,Kurds,Assyrians,Armenians etc) and with some additions of Arabs,Persians,Balkan peoples, Circassians, Albanians etc. And Azerbajainis are a Turkicised Iranian people. The Ottoman Turks and there forbears who went from central Asian to middle east adopted a very Arabesque ..middle eastern… Islamic culture … which probably was little relation to the Bulgar Turkics who went to southern Europe and assimilated the Slavs and became
eventually todays …predominantly Orthodox Bulgarians. The Khazars had a different destiny also … they adopted Judaism and according to Koestellers theory they becamse or largely contributed to Ashkenazi Jewery.
As I have said Hungarians are not and never were Turks but even in the case of past affiliations with Khazars this idea does not make any sense as culture of Turkey is an Arabesque Muslim culture with various other influences and Hungary is a predominantly central european and slightly eastern european culture. In fact there in some respects is more cultural consistancies between Turkey and Balkan countrys than is with Hungary. As for Azerbaijan Hungary has had nothing to do with them we have never had significant Azerbajaini minorities or anything the Armenian historical population in Hungary is far more significant. I dont blame you for being annoyed with this Hungarian administration for there actions and as time goes more things will get clearer ,
I have already said Orban should resign or be ousted and I agree this Hungarian Government needs to get themselves in order and make a proper response about this issue.
Jakob
I take your point, but I’d stick to what I’ve read about the Hungarians in that the Khazar Turkic influence and interbreeding has fundamentally changed the authentic Magyar national character (these are Koestler’s words, not mine). Yet, I agree (and have never said it actually) that the Hungarians are not Turks. I mentioned only distant past affiliations that you yourself don’t seem to deny.
Also, you can’t say for sure that genetically Turkey is predominantly not Turkic but a result of Turkicization of many native peoples of Eastern Asia Minor. Of course, there is a large segment of Greek, Kurdish, Assyrian, Armenian, as well as Arab, Persian, Balkan, Circassian, and Albanian genetic material that the Turks dumped into one melting pot, but nonetheless, their authentic origin derives from the Seljuk and Mongol genetic material, given their place of origin in Central Asia.
And Azerbaijanis are not a distinctly Turkicised Iranian people. At best they are of mixed ethnic origin. One theory is that they might be an Iranian people who changed their language and religion following Turkic invasions. The other theory being that the Azeris are of a Turkic background from Central Asia. Armenians believe the second theory as being true.
Cheers and thanks for your sympathies with the Armenians. Indeed, the Armenian historical population, presence, and contributions in Hungary should have been far more significant for your government before prostituting themselves to the Azeri Turks.
Dear Jakab,
I hope Hungary will follow the example of Canada and demolish that dictator’s father statues in Hungary, he murdered thousands of Azeri innocent people while he was KGB boss in oily Azerbaijan…he committed Khojali massacre in order to pave his son to be the next oil man of his Sheikdom and remain as a ruthless dictator for his people!!
Azerbaijani ex-president Heydar Aliyev statue dismantled in Canada
<<Hungarians are clearly a Turkic nation and their language contains at least %15 the Turkish vocabulary . Those who reject their ancient past are motivated by Christianity I advise Armenians to call Hungarians Go back to central Asia where they were originated.<<
Go back to Central Asia, where you originated.
Hungarian is NOT a Turkic language. Turks claim that just about everything is Turkish. Hittites, Sumerians, Native Americans, Vikings, Martians – you name it.
You are PATHETIC.