DER ZOR, Syria (A.W.)—The Armenian Genocide Martyrs Memorial Church in Der Zor, also known as the Holy Martyrs Armenian Church, has been severely damaged as a result of shelling, as revealed by video footage taken by locals and shared on YouTube today.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cbbn520liuQ
The lower level of the museum and memorial, where the remains of victims of the Armenian Genocide are kept, seems to be in ruins as well. It is unclear from the footage whether they were removed prior to the attacks.
Der Zor has witnessed clashes between the rebels and the Syrian Army since the beginning of the armed conflict in the country. The few Armenian families living in the city left months ago.
Hundreds of thousands of Armenian deportees were massacred in Der Zor in the summer of 1916.
The memorial was consecrated in 1991.
Details to follow.
Why doesn’t the Armenian weekly state that it was shelled by the regime ? We are already well aware of the blatant bias in Armenkan media on Syria but Jen something is as clear as day and rather than condemning the collective and indiscriminate punishment the Syrian government is doing or at least acknowledging they are doing it we have lazy and politically influenced journalism.
You’ll be accused of being of Turk for saying that, but I agree. I wonder about the reaction of the Armenian media had Turkey sided with Assad. Probably a 180 degree flip. Too bad everyone is too consumed with themselves and their personal.gains to see that every hour of a every day a criminal government is murdering its own citizens.
Dear mrs Hosepian,
If you know more on the story then please inform all us. I am not in favor of syrian government at all. But this shrine was build with full blessing and help of the old regime.
Thank you.
baron asbed and to everyone else. i think it is very clear what has been going on in der ezzor. so those comments about a Turkish conspiracy are an insult to the human intelligence. first we are talking about der ezzor here not aleppo.. The rebels in der ezzor are weak and they are not mixed factions of other arabs and non-arabs as the groups in Aleppo are. The regime has been using airpower to bombard Der ezzor for some time. If there are rebels in any area, rather than targeting them or use another method, they will simply bombard the whole area from aircraft, dropping barrels from MIGs and also cluster bombs..They don’t care what else is there if they are killing people and shelling churches. And this kind of warfare is indiscriminate and causing Syria to be destroyed…. When there is a mouse in your home you do not burn your whole home down to get rid of it!!! bedke otanavov zarnen yev AMEN INCH kanten??? dunere khanutnere yegeghetsinere yevayln they are destroying all of syria by air attacks as the regime saying goes assad aw nahriq al balad (assad gam yergire ayre)
Unfortunately if someone is unable to watch the videos of the damage and have a brain capacity to understand what caused the destruction, I think even if Assad lined up a bunch of Armenians and shot them, still you will have armenians who will turn the blame on someone else! accusing of course turkey, usa, israel, because the brainwashing cult of Assad regime led people to consider him like “infallible” as a god or like they say in syria the holy trinity hafez (hayre) bashar (vortin) and bassil (surp hokin), only people without a brain in their head or any human diginity will follow this idea.
Rita,
They are not rebels they are terrorists. And, the fact that this whole mess in Syria is imported is well documented. I do not know any government which would hand in his power to terrorists. Armenians should emigrate to Armenia; it is not safe in Syria anymore. I do not know what they are waiting for. Human lives are more precious than anything else.
RVDV, I always try to root for you but sometimes you’re way too disingenuous for my taste.
In this case, you’re acting like some sort of proxy victim because, after a genocide monument is destroyed, the descendants of the victims have the temerity to suggest that it reminds them of the actual genocide. Oh, poor you. Sorry if we offended your sensibilities.
Enough dancing: do you think it was a good thing or a bad thing that this church was destroyed? Why have you not condemned the destruction?
Alex: Saying that a bombing of a church, in which no one died, reminds you of the genocide, in my opinion, is belittling the genocide.
Whether I am glad or not, well I’d prefer a genocide memorial church didn’t have to exist in the first place. No, it doesn’t exactly put a smile on my face.
Who am I to condemn? Is there a clear culprit? And why does my condemnation matter? It seems that everyone had agreed Turks are behind this and condemned us already, seems redundant for me to follow suit. Granted we Turks don’t have the best track record, and yes, I strongly suspect Turkey had a hand in this, but that’s all. A suspicion, and until someone can prove something, it’ll say as a suspicion.
RVDV,
If it is confirmed that Turkey played a role in this, I would not be surprised if she did because that is all this country is good at, it would not only remind us the Armenian genocide, but also will prove the fact that it still continues today by the grandsons of Ottoman Turks.The same grandsons who claim to be different from their forefathers. I never bought it. If they were different they would not strip the basic human rights from their countrymen Kurds and treat them as second class citizens like they did in their Ottoman times with Armenians and other Christians. If they indeed did this, it is called a cultural genocide the final stage of the genocide.
I would not call Rita a Turk, but her post does not sound balanced to me. She sounds very subjective.
Excuse me RVDV, you’re the one who is belittling. It’s not just “a church.” It’s a monument to the genocide, located on the place where the genocide occurred. Trying to get rid of it is tantamount to erasing the evidence from the scene of the crime. It’s as insidious–more so–than denial.
Your “me against the world” mentality is no less pathetic than when White Americans act like they are the real victims of racism in the USA. Stop it. You are not the victim. In fact, multiple times in your post, you identified yourself as a Turk (whereas in the past, you’ve identified yourself as a repentant Kurd, probably to get in our good graces. Being a little opportunistic, are we?). Well, one of the consequences of identifying as a Turk is that you are identified as a member of the perpetrator group.
“Whether I am glad or not, well I’d prefer a genocide memorial church didn’t have to exist in the first place.”
What in the world does that mean, “whether I am glad”?! Why on earth would you be glad that this happened??!
And by the way, your comment that you’d prefer that a “genocide memorial church” didn’t have to exist is nefarious: do you mean you’d prefer that Armenians and people of good conscience didn’t feel the need to memorialize what happened, that they should get over it? Or are you peeved that it is a church, and not some “interfaith shared history monument” or the other nonsense that Davutoglu spouts? It’s choosing time, RVDV.
Something tells me, RVDV, that if this were a mosque you would be outraged.
RVDV, now you are being obtuse. It is intentionally insensitive of you not to understand how the bombing of this particular church—during a conflict in which Turkey has been implicated as a covert provocateur—would resonate very personally with the descendants of Armenian Genocide victims. Of course, its only speculation, but the emotional reaction is understandable.
Are you belittling the inherited anguish that Armenians carry from the genocide and that is exacerbated by your government’s immoral denial and refusal to face justice?
Alright, everybody calm down.
Alex: “In fact, multiple times in your post, you identified yourself as a Turk (whereas in the past, you’ve identified yourself as a repentant Kurd, probably to get in our good graces. Being a little opportunistic, are we?).”
Yes, I have in my previous post, like always- literally 100% of the time, identified myself as a Turk. Before I go on and explain, I want to say that I will never repeat and/or clarify this again. I AM a Kurd. It is the native language of my parents, my grandparents, and so on. However, I have never identified myself as a Kurd. My whole life I have called myself a Turk. Not someone from Turkey, or a Turkish citizen. A Turk- you know those savage invader Mongol genocide perpetarors? Yeah, those guys.
“Why on earth would you be glad that this happened??”
You asked, and I quote, “do you think it was a good thing or a bad thing that this church was destroyed?'”
Why on earth would you ask me if it was a good or bad thing the church was destroyed? Why would I think it was a good thing?
“do you mean you’d prefer that Armenians and people of good conscience didn’t feel the need to memorialize what happened, that they should get over it? Or are you peeved that it is a church, and not some “interfaith shared history monument” or the other nonsense that Davutoglu spouts? ”
See, you think I have a “me against the world” mentality, and sometimes I wonder if I do get too defensive, but then you ask me something like this. What I meant when I said I’d prefer such a memorial didn’t exist, is that I would prefer there would have been no reason for the memorial to be built. That I would have preferred there was no genocide, and that memorial and countless others didn’t have to exist. Did you honestly believe I would think along the lines of what I drew out of my comments? Have I truly been able to prove nothing of myself?
Finally: “Something tells me, RVDV, that if this were a mosque you would be outraged.”
Well, I am an Alevi, our place of worship is a Cemevi, not a mosque. So…..
Boyajian: I agree with Alex when he says that destroying that Church/monument, if it was done by Turks, is worse than denial. But to say that destroying it is as bad as the genocide itself? Okay, destroying this place is pretty awful, and if it was intentional and planned out, well that’s just subhuman. My point was never to belittle the anguish Armenians carry. It was actually the opposite. Would you agree that genocide is the worst thing that can happen to a nation? Were talking about 1.5 million people, your ancestors, that were murdered in the worst, inhumane ways possible. I really don’t see how anyone can say that reminds them of the genocide. I just don’t. If that makes me insensitive, I’m sorry.
RVDV, I asked you your opinion of the incident because, instead of roundly condemning it, you started to whine about bias in Armenian media. That’s the equivalent of reacting to yesterday’s events in Gaza by criticizing biased American/European/Arab media.
“A Turk- you know those savage invader Mongol genocide perpetarors? Yeah, those guys.”
Oh, cry me a river. If some prejudiced Armenians call you names, I’m sure you can console yourself by enjoying the vast swathe of territory your fellow Turks have in Anatolia. The territory that they got through genocide.
I know that seeing oneself as a righteous victim is fashionable, but please, do so privately. I say this for the third time, your temptation to cast YOURSELF as the victim, in a forum full of people who are descendants of people killed in genocide, is unbecoming. Hrant Dink was a childhood classmate and lifelong friend of my father; you’ll understand then why it bothers me when some Turks whine about Armenian prejudice. No genocide denial=no prejudice. And in the meantime, if the prejudice is too much for you to bear, I say this again: go console yourself in the ports of Trabzon or at Lake Van or in beautiful Diyarbekir. Some name-calling is a small price to pay for all that land, wouldn’t you agree?
“A Turk- you know those savage invader Mongol genocide perpetrators? Yeah, those guys.”
Poor cry-Turk alias Kurd alias Alevi seems to deny the historical facts that:
(a) Seljuk Turks, as nomads, were savages as compared to sedentary peoples who developed into civilizations;
(b) Seljuk Turks, who originated in Central Asia and the Altay Mountains, were not invaders into Asia Minor, they were magnanimous and tender guests who just forgot to go back to their land of origin some 3000 miles afar;
(c) Both Seljuk Turks and Mongols originated in the same geographic area, had linguistic similarities, and both settled in the lands of other peoples by sword and fire;
(d) Turks were not genocide perpetrators. 2 million Armenians and millions of Greeks and Assyrians have just evaporated from their ancestral lands because the sun that shone over them was just million-times stronger that the one that shone over the Turks.
It has to be realized that Turkish persecution of the Armenians, really did not start until 1877. It was losing a war to Russia, and the insurrection of the Balkan peoples, which eventually led to their independence. This was followed by the rise of Pan Turkism, which were their version of Pan Slavism. Pan Turkism was the belief in linking up with the Turkic peoples of Central Asia, but the Christian Armenians in eastern Anatolia stood in their way of accomplishing this goal. So this led to the massacres of 1894 to 1896, and 1909. This was culminated by the Young Turks party meeting in 1911, when a master plan was formalized for the final solution enacted in 1915. It was enacted then, because of another war with Russia.
What a shame. Act of Turks
This is planned work from Turkey
No one else will do…
Turks will do and never the Arabs because
Arabs knows about genocide and most of their grandmothers are Armenians
Kurds will never do…Recently turks killed 42 Kurds calling them rebels…
Some are Born to abolish
and harm even the bones the skulls
have no mercy
Lack any kind of Humanity…!
Sylva
I agree that Arabs are more decent people. A few years ago, I had dealings with Arabs from Deir Zor, and I can confirm that they know their history and that of Armenians. Only non-Arabs or people who have no allegiance to any system would attack the most sacred shrine of Armenians. These people most of them are imported fanatic mercenaries, whose objective is to destabilize, destruct and plunder, same as Central Asian invading hordes one thousand years ago. History is repeating itself. And the sad part is that our Madame (previous) Secretary of State says that “we are helping the opposition (rebel) forces as much as we can, through our allies in the region…”.
In this instance, Turkey is guilty and has to prove its innocent beyond reasonable doubt.
“Turkey is guilty and has to prove its innocent beyond reasonable doubt.”
Is that how the justice system works?
Is there a justice system in Turkey ?
I think Turkish actions speak for themselves; pls check this out >>> http://www.panarmenian.net/eng/news/131868/
“No grass grows in the trail of a Turk.” —an old Arab saying
Very convenient for Turkey to arm the so-called rebels to erase the remnants of the 1915 Genocide of the Armenians from Aleppo and Deir Zor : people, memorials and churches. The genocide continues, after 97 years, by the systematic desecration of our cemetaries, temples and the descendants from the survivors of the Genocide.
NATO supplies conveniently channelled to so-called rebels via Turkey by non-friends of Armenia.
But, is the western media interested in covering these kinds of events? Not heard a peep from them.
Did the government of Armenia formally or informally condemn it?
Hillary and Abdulah, having a Turkish dance in Dolmabahçe Sarayı Palace, where Billy blowing his “Monica River” saxophone, and Barack Hussein hitting his Kenyan made “meza” drum, for them!!
May God punish those who committed this crime! Those who has Syrian background and was living in Syria in the late 80is and early 90is, and have family steel in Syria, we know very well who helped and supported Armenians to build that Genocide Martyrs Memorial church in Der Zore, in a time when Syria was going thru hard economic times……I can assure you, Syrian Armenians are aware who committed this crime, as well as who is shelling all the churches and schools in the country. Unfortunately they are all living in a big fear of the unknown, fear of telling the truth, fear of the massacres committed by the extremists in every corner of the country once they are known they are supporting the government, therefor they are saying nothing, and asking us, who are living in USA to not say anything, to not post anything on facebook pages, because they are afraid of those extremists… I say thank you “Western one size fits all Democracy” spreaders, may God punish you all! Armenians lived in Syria since third century, this is the first time we see discrimination towards any minority in that country. This is “Spring”? this is “Democracy”? this is way to seek “Freedom”? As Syrians we should reject this! I was in Syria one month before all this happened, I witnessed what a beautiful, safe, happy, family oriented, free place was Syria before this ” SPRING”:((….. Do you all ask yourselves; If the government is shelling the church, as that opposition photographer was claiming, why he was there and was taking pictures without fear? How he knew a so called “government shell” will not strike him dead? Syrians know the answer very well…. According to the opposition everything is happening in the country is done by the government, even bombing governmental buildings, as if that government is suicidal….. So sad to see some people, after 18 months don’t realize what is really happening in Syria:( It is world war #3. Those who don’t have family members in Syria, please don’t believe all what you see and hear on CNN, BBC, Al-Jazeera, misleading media is 100% guilty in the Syrian blood shed.
The only thing the international community can say, is that this church shall be rebuilt. Der Zor is a very famous location in regards to the Armenian Genocide. Keeping its memory alive, is just as important as keeping the memory of Auschwitz and S-21 alive. For all of them, they shall not be forgotten.
Tim,
I think they use the same word for yogurt as well i.e. madzun.
Der Zor to Armenians is what Auschwitz is to the Jews.
To those who believe that it is the Syrian Regime who destroyed the Genocide Memorial Complex in Der Zor, what’s in it for them? On the other hand it is logical to believe that the rebels supported by Turkey would want to erase the history there.
Auschwitz did not just kill Jews, it also killed Roma as well. The Romany words for bread, wool, and bees wax all come from Armenian. Because when the Armenians were fleeing the Turks up in the Caucasus down to the Mediterranean, Roma went along with them. The Roma later crossed over into Greece, where they became the world famous Gypsies.
The rebels (terrorists) are supported by the Turks, and behind the Turks is the US. There are reports that the rebels have obtained weapons that could only be by approval of the US. Too many Armenians are reticent to critique or analyze US strategy in the Middle East. After what the US did in Egypt, then Libya, how can it not be obvious what the US is doing in Syria? The US is aiding and abetting the Muslim Brotherhood and Salafi rebels. How many times does the US have to do it before it is understood?
Dear Armenian Weekly, I hope you will salvage any sense of professional journalism and write what is the cause of destruction on the church (the military bombardment). If you struggle to find any source if you are unaware of the nature of clashes in Der Ezzor and the use of airpower, I suggest you can open al hayat today and read Kevork Mutafians comments, Mutafians being one of most well known armenian families of Der ezzor.
http://alhayat.com/Details/451585
I understand your concern, but let me ask you something Rita. Do you think if Assad’s government was ousted and the ‘Islamic Brotherhood’ comes in (or any other similar group) that the museum in question and the Armenian community would be safe or go back to normal like it was previously?
Rita,
It is irritating when your comments assume all the rest of us who replied were either misled or pinheads. Let me tell you a facts.
1) we can reply and insult each other with inflammatory comments all day long, unfortunately this will not change the second fact 2) Armenian families are suffering in Syria. I’m not talking here about symbolic church here in der zor or elsewhere. because human casualties in our society from the youth and elderly is staggering. more than 90% of families in Alep and derzor were dislocated or deported. 3) I refuse to be a victim of corporate media ( like al-hayat and others). therefore get your facts as I do from families and friends I talk to personally.
We are pro change and prosperity. Armenians in SYria are extremely vibrant and tolerant communities. community leaders expressed openly they do no support either sides of the conflict. no body knows who controls the rebels. they are bunch of thugs, brainwashed fanatics ( try to avoid misleading media). Believe me when a credible figure takes control, all syrians not only armenians will support.
Politically speaking you should always ask yourself why? Who has a benefit of doing such atrocities? rebels forcefully occupy religious centers thinking they can be a safe haven from government forces. The government is ruthless, we all know. if rebels had any sense of logic in their mind they should have attacked only government figures or bases. They deliberately occupy churches and mosques, and then government forces end up with no way out except to topple down these buildings.
I hope you are a true armenian and not hiding behind an armenian name.
I would invite you to donate to those poor families and elderly who are forced to be deported. they are in great need for help from all of us.
This is time for all Armenians to move out of Middle Eastern countries, regardless of who is right or who is wrong!!I suggested this 2 years ago and printed in Asbarez and AW!! Still it is not too late you sacrifice your life for the sake of our future Armenian generation !!Move to Armenia, then decide whether to stay in your ancestral home land or somewhere else! Armenian government supplying free Passport and visa for those unfortunate Armenians who are suffering in the war between rival forces, such as terrorists, rebels, Wahhabis, Sunnis Shiites, Al-Qaeda, Taliban, Hezbollah and…….we are not part of them and we should never involved politically with their governments!! It is time to move out, period!!! Middle East will never become a peaceful place for many many years to come, if you have businesses and investments, at least move your family to Armenia, then it is OK to do business with them!!
On another interesting news topic, I read that several Azeris were captured or killed in Syria who were there on the side of the insurgents. Now one would ask, what the heck are they in there for, since their religious ideology is actually contrary to the Islamic Brotherhood… yet something tells me something sinister is at play and the Turks are behind this as well, and the Azeris are there only to terrorize Armenians opportunistically, a la Safarov.
Everyone is quick to jump and place the blame, but everyone needs to recognize that this ‘rebellion’ is a creation of the west and it’s helpers….the Saudis and ultra-religious governments who are anti-Alevi, which means they are also anti-Armenian. Have you heard of divide and conquer as a strategy? You are seeing it in action, once again, just as it was in Iraq. No one should believe the propaganda lies that are being played over and over again in the US media. Of course, Turkey and Israel are part of this as they they are two peas in the same pod, and will do whatever the US asks, but also because this is also an anti-Iranian / anti-Russian move. Assad has long been viewed as a Russian and Iranian ally. But the real players are the money men of the MIddle East who also act on behalf of the US…the Saudis, the Qataris and others who have no interest in creating a tolerant, new Syria…if anything, it will be just the opposite. All you need to do is look at their own societies…where there is absolutely no tolerance for anything that’s not religiously conservative and fundamentalist. Those are the people who have bombed Armenian targets like the shrine at Der Zor.
I Turkey wanted the genocide to be forgotten, the problems in syaria are making them wishful. Who knows? they support the rebels and maybe add to their mission to destroy Armenain monuments. Der Zor being one of the important location of Armenian genocie.
In the cahos it is easy for a third party involvement to get diluted in the mass conflict. Turkish government, has long been practicing playing West and East and taking advantage of its geopolitical strategic location to continue getting away with their past wrong doings.
And as for US, its a matter of Iran vs the West. They back Turkey and don’t care about Der Zor. For US it is about Russia and China vs the West. And Turkey is safe in that respect so far. Too safe to take advantage and get away with it.
This is the extent to which the Turcophobia has come! What a comedy!
By the way, the Great Flood was caused by Turks to drown the armenians.
Ahmet, everyone knows Turkey supports the Syrian insurgents, not the legitimate regime. Where is Turkophobia here?
At the time of Great Flood, Noah and his son Japeth from whom Armenians believe their nation has originated, there was Mt. Ararat and the protoArmenian land of Urartu. Where were the Turks, might you know?
Your beloved turkish Spring will be next….. your beloved country is a Muslim country as well, and not too much different from Syrians!! Your Raki won’t be Halal in the future, so drink as much as you can for now!! The real turkish Dance will start when Obama pull his old drum out of his closet!!
Read carefully, I didn’t make conclusions. But, with the way Turkish polititions have acted since WWI anything devious is expected of them. Turkish government is like the lying sheppard who called false alarms of wolf attacks way too many times.
Also, its not just about Armenains or Greeks. Turks have done quiet a bit of damage in their history beginning 1800’s. Kurds, Greeks, Assyrians, Armenians, Bulgarians, other Balkans, Arabs. And after all these damages they continued denying and covering it up. Emprisoning or threatening the Turks who spoke out. This is the legacy.
Perhaps, I am 100% right about how the ultranationalist Turks feel about Der Zor damages to Armenaians. And among them some have high sits on Turkish government.
And also, when Nohas flood happened Turks didn’t exist and Noha’s arc landed on Ararat which you falsfully call Agri dagi. That my friend is way too much credit you are giving Turks.
But, I respect your emotional honesty. Unfortunately, I don’t find that among Azeris.
I do not pretend that I know much about the Arab mindset,but what little I do know is from my young days when still living in (till age 16 ) in Iran t6hen off to London,then back again for another that many yrs…
What I gto to know about Arabs,was from fellow co professional Persians.They had denominations for Arabs and Turks.
To the Arabs they used to say they are from roots Arab…(meaning a bit hard headed?) , to the Turks…sorry folks here(Turks masquerading as Euors or just plain tukrs….¨Tork KHAR¨ ,meaning donkey …
What I have learnt living amongst many ,many Arab Armenians (whether fromn T.joran. Jerusalem, iraq, Syuria or the south …is the following.
hafez Asad,father of pressent pres. pof Syria had one city ,I guess HOM ,whaterver bombarded yrs ago wherein some 40,000 arabs, but of some other sect perished…
Now, quite impartially.Armenians blaming this that power , meddling there,frankly is not totally right. These people, like Gadaffi´s bedouin tribesmen, or yet another that of Iraq all resemble ea othjer ion being ruthless towards ea other(even from Lawrence of Arabia days) tribe against tribe and indeed the Ottomans taking advantage of the inter-arab cruelness..
Now back to us Armenians.
Those who stayed on after,say what happned in Iraq, then gaddafiland Libya, they should have thought to pack up and leave ,if not to armenia Artsakhm then country of their choice or availability..
I do realize that we have Der Zor Shrine there, but a few thousnad small armenian community could take care of that.The thick of them some 60,000 or more ought to primarily go to Armenian/Artskah.
Difficuñlt-like they grmble -to live alongside the Hayastantsi…O.K..THEN.
GET TOGETHER IN YEREVAN PLAN TO BIUOILD NEW T O W N S H I Ps outside Yerevan.From latter to Gyumir we drove in nearly 3 hours all WIDE OPEN SPACES….FOR GOD´S SAKE go build your own have businesses of your own but on Haireni Land.
We have to keep Antillias??? indeed .but then again same can be applied to that country…only a couple days ago . mORE BOMBS BEING THROWN AROUND AND HARASSING THE ARMENIANS…
ENOUGH OUGHT TO BE ENOUGH FOR THESE ARMENIANS.
H O W E V E R , i DO BEG THEIR PARDON, ALL OF THEM IF THEY THINK i AM NOT RIGHT AND THAT THEY REALLY PREFER THE Arab PEOPLE and the environment there.THAT IS TOTALLY THEIR BUSINESS.
EVEN PERSIAN ARMENIANSS HAVE BY AND BY LEFT IRAN…THEY MUST HAVE REALIZED THAT WE NOW OSTENTATE A NATION/STATE. WE ARE NO MORE PUEBLI/PEOPLE….HOPE SOME UNDEERSTAND…
Parev hasgcoghin
LATEST !!!!!!
A1 Armenian t.v. just informed , from Paris, (where pres. Serge Sarkissian is …that pres. of France has promised that the Law criminalizing denial of the armenian genocide will be PASSED…
This is yet one more triumph!!!!!
Ms. Rita Hosepian:
Yes, most likely Syrian Army shells or bombs are the ones that hit the Der Zor Museum walls.
You seem to be quite concerned that AW does not specifically mention that the damage was done by Syrian government.
So let us assume it was: now what ?
Are you on record stating that Syrian Government deliberately targeted the Der Zor Museum ?
the same Syrian Government that sanctioned the construction of the AG Der Zor Museum in the first place ?
the same Syria that sheltered survivors of the Armenian Genocide ?
the same Syria where 100,000 Christian Armenians lived in peace and safety until Al-Qaeda, Wahhabist, Salafist Anti-Christian, Anti-Armenian terrorist invaded ?
who is fighting the Syrian government troops now ? Please go on record and admit it.
you accuse AW of not stating something supposedly obvious.
Practice what you preach: stop calling them ‘rebels’; don’t cover up the truth.
Practice what you preach: admit publicly what is common knowledge by now; foreign terrorists have invaded Syria en mass and are wreaking it.
Admit their goal is to create a radical Islamist run Syria – with no Christians.
Al-Qaeda, Wahhabist, Salafist Anti-Christian, Anti-Armenian terrorists kidnapped several Syrian Armenians and are holding them hostage: any comment ?
Same terrorists have detonated several terrorist bombs in public places and have murdered hundreds of innocent Syrian civilians: any comment ?
Same terrorists were videotaped throwing Syrian postal employees – many of them still alive – off of the roof of 5th story building, while screaming Allahu Akbar in celebration: comment ?
Same terrorists were videotaped murdering dozens of Syrian government POW troops in cold blood whom they had captured, while screaming Allahu Akbar in celebration: comment ?
Are those the same people whom you so benignly call ‘rebels’ ?
Are those the same people you support ?
Are those the same people you expect Armenians at large to support ?
It is quite interesting that since AW started reporting about the Syrian conflict, people posting under Armenian names keep trying to get Armenians at large involved supporting the so-called ‘rebels’.
How many of those posters believe there will be a single Armenian left in Syria if these ‘rebels’ win ?
What kind of Armenian would advocate – in effect – for the elimination of centuries old Armenian community in Syria ?
Avery,
How about then those Persian*(Iranian Armenians who have peacefully left Iran for other shores.I’m afraid you do not wish to admit that Arabs per se ,and in general are not a cunning people-read smart- the like of the Persians and Turks-speaking only of people imn the Area,not japan or Finland areas…
These people have a long history of invading -like Salaheddin etc., not long ago I explained here that even the North african khaliphates had invaded SPAIN and had it occupied for over SIX centuries…
You sort of paint a picture that rebels and/ or terrorists? what in droves of thousands are wreaking havoc in Syria..
Were those also in LIBYA ALL TERRORISTS THAT OVERTHREW THE BLOODTHIRSTY DICTATOR GADDAFI?
Come come now, these people have a history of cruelness.Read, re read what I wrote above.sad father also conducted a rampage killing nay mass murdering 40,000 of his own people….
I do agree though that the region is or has been steadily becoming Islamist.This began long ago, accelerated by Khomeini´s regime etc.,
Now then, if we Armenians are there sandwiched in between, nobody is stopping us from leaving and (see above,leaving peafully) .
Centuries old Armenian communities.Yes ,I admit that and many churchdes, etc. built by us in thseo lands.But <FEW very few wish to realize that we have been ab le to at long last ACHIEVE AND HAVE THIS INDEPENDENT REBORN REPUBLIC, NAY twO REPUBLICS…
I wrote, if the persian or Arab Armenian uses the pretext that they cannot easily acdcomodatge themselves to the Hayastansi armenians then ,NOBODY WILL STOP THEM IF (ACTUALLY THEY HAVE DONE IT ON SMALL SCALE IN yEREVAN THE pERSIAN ARMENIAN ALONG ONE STREET LIVING AMONG THEMSELVES) THEY WISH TO BUILD N E W
TOWNSHIPS.I know of one very important BUILDER of Syrian origin…hell many do that can afford to build a quarter of a township with his unlimited capital…
I circulate in business areas and lknow many such people. Time to get them together.This only one example of a Syrian armen,let alonne the whole of Diaspora armenian M A G N A T E S SIX OR SEVEN OF THEM STARTING THE nucleus OF A national investment trust fund wherein then millionaires, down to hundred thoiusand dollar investors further down like you and me or others much less can invest in, DOWN TO A HUNDRED DOLLAR investment share. qUESTION IS WE ARMENIANS STILL HAVE THAT OTTOMAN MENTALITY of each one is on his her own and an ISHKHAN,ISHKHANOUHI, WHETHER IN DIASPORA OR HOMELAND.IN LATTER THEY ARE CALLED OLIGARGKS, what´s the differnece same…
CAn we some day condescend and become Socially FORMED AND integrate into professional colleagues associations 5 on the scen already .But we need !0 more and then on to REAL PARTICIPATION AND REPRESENTATION.
Even though the Turkish and Armenian communities are at each other’s throats on the Genocide debate, I am going to say that these Rebels need to get totally cleansed from Syria. I am of Hatay/Iskendrun heritage and most people from Hatay are very pro-Assad actually, regardless of religion.
There exists no such a thing in modernity as ‘genocide debate’. There is a demand for justice for 2 million savagely slaughtered or starved-to-death innocent civilians on the part of the Armenians worldwide and a shameful denial of the crime of Ottoman Turks by the modern-day state of Turkey. This is not a debate per se, this is justice vs. denial. The debate was long over with twenty-five governments of the world and scores of professional associations, international organizations and the majority of scholars, historians, demographers, lawyers, and Nobel Prize laureates having recognized the deliberate mass extermination of the Armenians as genocide. There can be no debate over an obvious crime. ‘Debate’ is a Turkish invention in order to obstruct the justice and delay admittance of guilt eternally.
Please watch.
http://www.otv.com.lb/episodes.php?id=27&eid=1435
Thank you.
I did write in my First above `post.If the Syrian Armeniasn wish to hang on anmd stay there for good …Best luck!!!!
My ¨´suggedstion¨¨ was to keep a small a few thousand people to safeguard our churhces shrina at Der Zod etc., ,rest relocate to RA/artsakh.
But if they prefer everything Arabic, May God be with them and save them from such like brother kill brother attrocities.For this is nothing short of that!!!
At least the Persian Armenians are not undergoing that kind of upheavals.
During the eleven year war against Iraq,true there were some Armeniasn soldiers that gave their lives.But then that was their duty. nothing like what is happening in Syria or Lebanon or iraq…
We shall give to help the Syrian Armenians as much as we can and hope to God this carnage stops….
Rest is in God´s hands.
But those who decide to relocate to Armenia/Artskah have my blessing and others who realzie what it is to have a n INDEPENDENT A R M E N I A !!!
PITY WHAT IS HAPENING IN SYRIA..I LIVED 20 YEARS IN DAMASCUS AND ALEPPO..I KNOW WELL THE PUBLIC,VERY FRENDLY TO ARMENIANS ,THER WAS NO DISCRIMATIONS AGAIST US,,I COULD SAY THE BEST OF ARABS,,THE REASON I AM VERY SAD MY COUSEN MR.HAIGAZOUN KAHVEDJIAN WELL NOWN BUISNESS MAN [[ R.I.P.]] DONATED BIG SOMME OF MONEY TO BUILD THAT CHUERCH…HE WILL CRY IN HIS TOMB.I REGRET THIS KIND OF ATROSITY…TO MANY FOREGNE MARADORS GOD GIVE A PLACE IN HAVEN FOR THIS INNOCENT VICTIMES PLEASE….
I believe the most reasonable conclusion is that the Assad forces bombarded the church by mistake. these things happen.
And Sarkis, the law in question would have to be the international courts, and as in other cases the one who complains must prove one’s case. Turkey will not have to prove its innocence as the first step. in a jurical setting.
But on a general level those who uphold the standard Turkish version of 1915-16 indeed will have to prove a number of things to convince the world
Not quite so, ragnar naess.
The International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, for example, itself issued indictments against several former Bosnian-Serb commanders. There was no ‘plaintiff’ in the true legal sense of the word who officially opened the case with ICTY.
Have you guys heard of Togarmah? He is the grandson of Japeth. It turns out that he is the ancestors of both Armenians an Turks.
Wow!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Togarmah
NO HE IS NOT. Wikipedia is full of Turkish propagandists and their ilk. This “info” is yet another attempt of Turks to give themselves legitimacy and an excuse of slaughtering Armenians and stealing their country. In Bibilical times not only did Turks not exist, no one even knew what “Turkic” was, at this time “Turkics” were part of the tribes (cousins of the Mongolians) in the Altai mountains. You Turks like to confuse words to turn it into “Turkic” – Khazar, Scythians, etc… During Bibilical times, Armenians also had a very large spread all the way into Central Asia. There is absolutely no proof Togarmah had anything to do with Turks.
right Giligiatsi:
this is what is said in that Wiki link:
[This article needs additional citations for verification. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources.]
basically, somebody collected stuff from the turkish version of National Enquirer and threw it in there to create the myth that turkic tribes are somehow connected to Armenians.
anybody can add stuff to Wiki: nobody checks or verifies that the info is valid.
there is a lot of good info, but references need to be verified before citing it.
another pathetic display of turkish inferiority complex by our Denialist guest Ahmet.
Denialist turks hate Armenians with a passion, but deep down know Armenians built a magnificent city of Ani, when their nomadic tribal ancestors – who supposedly are related to us – were living in magnificent, air-conditioned Yurts.
” as in other cases the one who complains must prove one’s case. Turkey will not have to prove its innocence as the first step in a jurical setting.”
Mr. Naess,
You are an anti-ermenian
You are a paid by Turks
You are a brainwashed denialist
You are a gray-wolf
You are the worst man in the world
…
Maybe this is just the same old cold war, West wants russian navy base out of Med. sea. Big powers dont care who gets hurt, never did never will.
West didnt bite when Georgia attacked, didnt think Georgia worth WWIII
Now west thinks Russia will not bite when west attackes Syria, Russia will not
think Syria worth WWIII
As usual the innocent people suffer at the hands of the big powers playing their
“great Game”
SYRIA NEEDS PEACE AND A DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY!!!! WEll! with ALL THESE FANATICS AND JHADISTS FIGHTING IN Syria, and the moderates and business people, intttelectuals and Christians leaving it will become a backward country with factions fighting against each other and the winners will be the outsiders not the Syrian people.it is very sad, God save the Syrian people from this madness.
Why is it so hard to comprehend ,I don´t understand.When there are a few samples…I mentioned already ,case of Iraq, then Libya,Egypt and now Syria..
These people within themselves have not as yet come to a compromise..
I shall go back and also point out the POWER OF THE PEOPLE–
The Iranian King was toppled ,because the people were sick and tired of having a dictator rule over them…
In many other countries of the Western Semiphere,say South america this has occurred,dictators being toppled.
Pity indeed that Syrian armenians will suffer further..
They should think serioulsy to pull out leaving some able people behind to look over properties,ESPECIALLY OWNED BY the Communities….
If you speculate thios is the work of this that power further you will come to the conclusion that they(the powers) indded to intervene,but the ground for such Revolutions is prepared,nay developed along the years by harsh Un- democratic rule….people just get FED UP…
Power of the people is something else…it has nothing to do with -even-political party dogmas.Latter may have some role in preparing the ground,but the last word is SPOKEN BY THE PEOPLE.
All that I have to say to console my dear compatriots in Syria, is to look after themsselves, their children(save latter,if not themselves9 send them ovder to Armenia and /or other safer countries.The trend to this kind of Civil War is quite present in the whole of Middle East.Today, Syria, tomorrow Heaven forbid Iran, then Bakistan even..
or to the West and S.West all Arab big and small Sheikhdoms!!!! too.
Armenians have enjoyed the hospitality of the Arab good people, but these good people also know hpow tobecome ruthless TO EACH OTHER..
IT IS ONE THING WHEN a strewen all over people(till now, rather till 21 years ago) did not have a STATE, another when WE HAVE TWO STATES.
Both are ours and can ACCOMODATE MORE THAN 8 MILLION PEOPLE THERE COMFORTABLEY.
I WROTE THIS BEFORE ,BUTR SHALL REPEAT.IF FOR ONE REASON OR ANOTHER THEY DO NOT WISH TO LIVE SIDE BY SIDE WITH HAYASTANSTIS FOR THE TIME BEING THEY CAN BUILD THEIR O W N T O W N S H I P S AND LIVE THERE.MY LAST SUGGESTION IS JUST THIS:-
g o t o a r m e n i a and a r t s a k h,as SOON AS POSSIBLE.
john
yes, but the ICTY and ICTR were special tribunals established with the mission of prosecuting crimes in Rwanda and former Yugoslavia. Moreover it prosecuted individuals. Any trial between states, for example between Turkey and Armenia will have to take place in ICJ, if I am not mistaken. Bosnia brought Serbia-Montenegro to the ICJ on charges of genocide in 1994. So for Turkey to be found guilty/not guilty of genocide the case should go to ICJ, some other state must do this and Armenia is the obvious possibility. But countries who have asked Turkey to acknowledge that genocide took place might, I believe, also charge Turkey. France should be an obvious choice.
“inbreeding activities” (of Armenian posters)
“disposed of” (sacred remains of AG victims)
Are you into this for fun, Avery? See your post to Gayane on August 2, 2011
Avery: “This one is Tigran’s case , Gayane. Let him have some of the fun. Let’s wait a little. He’ll let us know if he’s busy and want us to take over”.
This was part of the discussion on Bedrosian: Lost Churches. A discussion with Anadolu, who points to the long time of peace between Armenians and Turks. Tigran then argued against it. Gayane comes in and delivers a number of insulting remarks to Anadolu. As seen above, Avery then exhorts Gayane to let Tigran have “some of the fun”.
Are you into this for fun, Avery? For me our discussions are very important, they deal with a tragic and gruesome fate, that of the Armenians in 1915-16. It is not discussing “for fun”.