Passing through the security gates of the historic Bogazici University, formerly Robert College, I was struck by the beauty and serenity of the campus. We meandered through a drive parallel to the breathtaking Bosphorus on the right, and the contrast of the campus to the bustling touristic Sultanahmet and Taksim districts was undeniable. While absorbing the beauty of my surroundings, I was reminded of my friend, Steve, a native of Istanbul who had described his student days at the university with such passion. Recently, he had instructed me to walk by the Bosphorus and “breathe in the air” for him.
As I was following his explicit instructions, though, I was reminded of the young Armenian men who had attended this institution a century ago with hopes and dreams for a brighter future. Unlike Steve, their goals and dreams were never to be realized as the genocide robbed them of a golden future. Their stories, flooding my mind, created an inner conflict, and I was forced to reconcile this dark past with the present-day beauty of the magnificent stone buildings of Bogazici University.
I made my way through a courtyard teeming with Armenian and non-Armenian conference attendees only to encounter additional security checks and a metal detector. The conference venue, Albert Long Hall, was full of remnants of years gone by. A massive pipe organ dominated one end, and a choir loft the other.
The audience, exceeding 500, had assembled into this majestic hall. As I gazed at the sea of attendees, I was struck by how different the audience looked; what was immediately noticeable were the women, young and middle-aged, with head coverings, quietly seated, listening attentively.
As speaker after speaker provided historical accounts, analyses, vignettes, and narratives of ordeals endured by survivors both during and after the genocide, a sense of sorrow permeated the proceedings for me. My heart ached not only for the loss of precious Armenian lives during the massacres and deportations, but for the tragic fate endured by the Armenians left behind.
In the diaspora, we mourn the 1.5 million who perished during the genocide. We seldom remember the remnants of the Armenian community who couldn’t leave and were forced to assimilate. They experienced a different kind of death—a living death, suffering in silence and isolation.
While presenting my paper, I remembered my maternal grandfather, Natan, who was taken into a Muslim household as a little boy. Had he not escaped, he would have suffered a similar fate.
The conference concluded with grandchildren of Islamized Armenians describing the sting of rejection by the Armenian community, and their longing for acceptance. Tears rolled down my cheeks as I listened to their pain. Their grief and suffering, palpable with each uttered word, deeply resonated within me. My heart ached for these individuals who don’t belong to either community, Turkish Muslim or Armenian Christian.
As Armenians—as Christian Armenians—how should we respond? When an Islamized Armenian, in the halls of a Turkish university, publically exclaims, “I am Armenian!” what should our response be? Do we accept them into our midst, creating a mosaic of Armenians? As Christians, do we embrace them with the love of Christ? Or do we reject and abandon them?
At the conclusion of this historic conference, I left the tranquil campus consumed with inner turmoil, a different kind of turmoil from what I had experienced initially, as I contemplated the challenges we will face as a nation in responding to this group of hybrid individuals. Today, on the eve of the genocide centennial, the surfacing of Islamized Armenians is a reminder of the trauma that has impacted us, of the tremendous loss that we as a nation have endured, and of the challenges that lie before us.
I went to Istanbul with great anticipation to present my paper, to meet fellow scholars from around the world, to reunite with friends and make new ones.
I did not expect to be forced to confront my own uneasiness at the notion of a “Muslim Armenian.” I did not expect to find myself mourning the pain of fellow human beings, fellow Armenians.
I did not expect to find myself hugging strangers who didn’t share my language, religion, or culture, but who nonetheless considered themselves Armenian.
Having encountered Islamized Armenians and heard their stories, how could my response be anything other than compassion, acceptance, and love?
Doris K. Melkonian
Latest posts by Doris K. Melkonian (see all)
- The ‘Islamized Armenians’ Conference: Reflections of a Participant - December 12, 2013
Thank you!
Growing up in the US I have espoused the philosophy of religious tolerance. Unfortunately, many Armenians, despite being the victims of religious intolerance and persecution, are guilty of the same. It is so narrow minded, it embarrasses me. Haven’t we learned anything from our history? We are, paradoxically, arrogant Christians.
I hope this conference encourages more people here in Turkey to talk, explore, and find their roots. Since the conference, I have personally exposed 2 families and an entire village to them actually being part/whole Armenian. If Turkey confronts its past this way…maybe it can organically come to terms with the events of 1915.
The pain caused by this planned genocide still goes on. Those adopted by Muslim families had no other chance of surviving the atrocities and were not asked their opinions. They assimilated and kept their mouths shut in the atmosphere of intolerance and ethnic cleansing.
The last of the caliphs, Abdulmecid II tried to stop the government. He said, “I refer to those awful massacres. They are the greatest stain that has ever disgraced our nation and race. They were entirely the work of Talat and Enver. I heard some days before they began that they were intended. I went to Istanbul and insisted on seeing Enver. I asked him if it was true that they intended to recommence the massacres which had been our shame and disgrace under Abdul Hamid. The only reply I could get from him was: ‘It is decided. It is the program.'”
Thank you for this and other articles on this subject. When I first learned of and began to think about Moslem Armenians and the seemingly inherent contradiction, I thought about my own situation. As an Armenian Protestant I have been told many times that I wasn’t — couldn’t be– Armenian. Even as recently as three years ago — someone not knowing my background — upon learning that I was a Protestant expressed amazement that I had been invited to attend the groundbreaking of the Armenian Heritage Park.
And so, as I think about this — that in the eyes of some Armenians being Protestant (or Catholic) is not compatible with being Armenian. Non-Apostolic Armenians have had to walk the walk and prove their Armenianness in order to be accepted (and then… maybe not fully yet!)
So — I can imagine how long it will take for Islamazied Armenians to be accepted. It won’t be easy, but I think the best approach is to show how our faith leads us to show love and to welcome them into our midst.
As every Armenian knows, being part of this complex group is not easy — but how wonderful! Let us enrichen our heritage yet one more time! I think this is an exciting turning point for our nation.
Carolann Najarian
Thank you for the article.
I would be disappointed that encountering Islamaized Armenina any Armenian should feel anything but compassion, acceptance, love and pride. The Islamaized Armenians will be our biggest national gain in the coming years. They are the ones who remained in Armenia and went through untold suffering in silence, they are also the ones who will be able to organise themselves in their ancestral homeland, Western Armenia and put Western Armenia back on the map again. It is regrettable that our church throughout its history has always acted against our nationhood and statehood by rejecting anything that it cannot control, dominate and profit from as non Armenian and it continues doing so in our times as well. Do not forget that we were a nation before Christianity and a very diverse nation for that matter. Our problem is that instead of embracing diversity as the wealth of our nation we see it as a threat, instead of criticising the church for its archaic values we see it as our saviour, and now instead of celebrating this new fact that there are hundreds of thousands of Armenains that we didn’t know existed we are questioning whether we should accept them or not. Who are we to accept them or not, who are we to decide whether someone is Armenian or not. We should be extatic if anyone wants to consider himself/herself Armenian regardless of their ethnic or religious background. For centuries we have always lost our people to others, for centuries Armenians have lost their identities and become Persians, Arabs, Turks, Georgian, Greeks, Russians, Polish, Hungarian and the list goes on, and very often because our dominant church would do everything to exclude and label them as non Armenian. For the first time a segment of our lost nation is hanging on to its identity against all odds and we should be proud of that. We should all mobilise to provide any support they need in their struggle. And lastly they may be Islamaized Armenians but they are not all Muslims. They are as diverse as the rest of our nation, they have amongst them Muslims, cryptic Christians, Alawites, Atheists, agnostics and many other faiths.
Being an Armenian should not be limited to religion. Prior Christianity, Armenia existed. What is the key word in the “Muslim Armenian” identity? To me, the Armenian part is what matters. When the name King Dikran II is mentioned, we don’t recall his religion but his nationality. There is an increase in the number of Muslims in Armenia that are of the mixed nationalities. What are their children considered? This is an ongoing reality, we as a nation can survive if we adapt and be creative. If we play our cards right we may even realize that we have aces hidden there.
Whoever feels Armenian, loves to be an Armenian and is ready to fight for Armenia, is an Armenian, NO matter his religion
You know Russian history consider many Italian, German, French, Jewish, even Armenian (like Ayvazovsky,Suvorov and etc.) paintists, artists, writers, architects who born in Russia or came to Russia and stayed there, created something for Russia “Russians”. Many of them had their native languages, religions and culture. We, Armenians, very talented, creative, smart nation have to change our attitude not only to our so different Armenians from over the world, but also to other nations who born in Armenia, think like Armenians, love Armenia, fight for Armenia despite of religion, culture.
Being an Armenian should not be limited to religion. Prior Christianity, Armenia existed. What is the key word in the “Muslim Armenian” identity? To me, the Armenian part is what matters. When the name King Dikran II is mentioned, we don’t recall his religion but that he was an Armenian (mixed nationality?). There is an increase in the number of Muslims in Armenia that are of the mixed nationalities. What are their children considered? This is an ongoing reality, we as a nation can survive if we adapt and be creative. If we play our cards right we may even realize that there are some aces.
There is a crucial difference between Islam and other non Christian religions. Islamists carry out Islam’s version of the Great Commission by subjugaing or killing those who do not wish to convert, and killing Apostates who convert to Christianity.
In theory, an Armenian Muslim is in a faith that commands him to enslave or kill Christian Armenians. Yes, I know, only 10 per cent of Muslims subscrive to this radical ideology, that’s only about 100M lunatics.
Yesterday it was reported that in Pakistan, Sunnis attacked Shia because someone said a Shia fruit seller had possession of a pomegranate imported from Iran wrapped in a discarded Koran page.
How about a conference on “the Christianized Armenians”? After all, you guys were not Christians before 300s AD.
How about a conference on “Islamized Turks”? After all, you guys were pagan central Asians until much later than Armenians became Christians. Heck, why not also have a conference on “Anatolized Turks”. You are newcomers to the land as well.
When Armenians accepted Christianity there were no nomadic Turks around, no Islam for that matter. Sure, there was a struggle between old and new, father and son, or brother and brother. That was a family affair, one side prevailed. It is different from being forcibly converted to Islam by Turkic invaders.
Concepts like this are hard to comprehend for representatives of the nomadic civilization.
Very difficult; too complex; enormously hard. These issues cannot be tackled through the Church: The reality is, no Armenian Church can tolerate inclusiveness- look at Etchmiadzeen vs. the other Apostolics; Etchmiadzeen vs. the non-Apostolic Christians, let alone the rest. The issue is in separation of Church from State. The State is secular. The State is all-inclusive. Even our diasporan political parties are secular: “Gronkeh Kheeghdjee Hartz Eh”. Many of our political minds were not religious: But when it came to the issue of the Church, when the Czar wanted to do away with Etchmiadzeen, they were the first to defend the Church. Enough identifying ourselves as “We are the first Christian Nation”: ” Who cares” would say my American neighbor. It’s not the Christ that unites us: It’s the ARMENIANNESS of that Church ( or mosque, or temple…). In short, I would attend any gathering, under any roof, that inspires Armenianness. Be that a Church in America, or a Mosque in Hamshen. There are ample places of worship for Christ or Muhammad: If you’re that religious, you can attend any of them worldwide. To be Armenian, to feel Armenian, you need not need to feel Christian. Hold your breath before saying:But it’s the Church that kept us? Yes and no, my friend: It was the Church, the Faith, the language, the culture, the heritage…ON OUR LANDS!!! That same Church may disperse us too, unless it acknowledges that it belongs to the people, to all the people, to all Armenians, of whatever heavenly beliefs they may have. Mark Roupen’s words: Not a believer, yet the first to defend the Armenian church, ANY Armenian church…
We’re not ALONE, but, rather ALL ONE.
The uneasiness expressed by Doris Melkonian became empowerment for me in August 1995, when I presented a paper on “Armenian Libraries: Their Past, Present and Future”, during a History Round Table Preconference of IFLA (International Federation of Library Associations and Institutions), held in Istanbul
Sylva Նաթալի Manoogian
Timeline
Recent
Status
Photo
Place
Life Event
What’s on your mind?
Sylva Նաթալի Manoogian likes a link.
The uneasiness expressed by Doris Melkonian becamwerme empoent for me in August 1995, when I presented a paper on “Armenian Libraries: Their Past, Present and Future”, during a History Round Table Preconference of IFLA (International Federation of Library Associations and Institutions), held in Istanbul
Sylva, are you related to the brave civil rights activist Ara Manoogian? Who persistently exposes the corruption in Armenia and NKR? If yes, please know that we are proud of his courage. On November 24, 2013, he bravely confronted the thugs serving as the bodyguards of NKR’s “president”, as well as those who were trying to cover-up the corruption associated with the All Armenian Fund and its Telethon. Watch the video, it illustrates both the arrogance and the cowardly nature of the lackeys of Armenia’s/NKR’s regime.
http://www.thetruthmustbetold.com/category/charity/hayastan-all-armenian-fund-charity/
getting really, really desperate, nomad.
desperately grasping at anything to stop yourself from sinking in the tarpit you have stepped into.
pathetic, buddy boy.
positively pathetic.
[“The conference concluded with grandchildren of Islamized Armenians describing the sting of rejection by the Armenian community, and their longing for acceptance.”]
The above was the most heart-wrenching sentence from the article.
There are two separate issues here: the issue of identity, which is personal, and the issue of Armenian citizenship, which is legal. If these Armenians consider themselves Armenians, there is nothing that we, the rest of Armenians, can do. As I have said before, the Armenian nation is a voluntary organization. You can leave any time you want, you can enter any time, and you can do anything you want with your membership. We cannot force them not to consider themselves Armenians, or to convert to whatever religion we want them to, or to abandon the quite hygienic practice of circumcision. By not accepting them, the only thing we accomplish is alienating them. They will still call themselves Armenians, they will just resent us, the Christian Armenians. And we don’t want yet another bitter division among us.
Of course, the state of Armenia (assuming it’s a sovereign state, which is debatable), has the right to define “Armenian” for the narrow purposes of immigration and citizenship. Therefore, to avoid causing any unnecessary bitterness to our Islamized Armenian brothers, we should define the issue in our debates not as “are they Armenian,” but “should they be allowed to immigrate and become citizens of the state of Armenia.” However, here again the undemocratic nature of the republic of Armenia causes a harm (as it does in all other areas of the Armenian reality). In undemocratic Armenia, there is no environment for a free debate on this issue by the public, and these decisions are not made by a government elected by the people and responsive to the people’s wishes. That is why this issue cannot be adequately resolved until and unless Armenia becomes a democracy.
As a sidenote, as long as Armenia is undemocratic, this issue is moot anyway, because, let’s face it, even Christian Armenians do not wish to live in the state of Armenia, so we can safely assume that our Muslim brothers will not flock the republic for a while.
{” we can safely assume that our Muslim brothers will not flock the republic for a while.”}
your Muslim brothers flocked to the ‘Republic’ (Sultanate) of Turkbeijan long time ago, nomad.
Your Turkic nomadic ancestors flocked to the Caucasus all the way from Uyguristan.
Funny choice of words, nomad sheep herder: “…’flock’ the republic….”
I guess what they say is true: “you can take the sheeps herder out of Nomadistan, but you can’t take nomad out of the sheeps herder”.
Baaa.
Baaa.
By saying “brothers”, I was talking about Islamized Armenians in Turkey, gyavuroghlu. If by that word you primarily mean the Azeris, thats your problem. As they say, you can take a gyavur to a free land, but you wont take the slave out of the gyavur.
Its quite amusing watching you bleat like a sheep, gyavur. What can we expect from someone who calls our Genocide victims “sheep”.
I was recently told by a little Armenian girl aged 10 that I was not Armenian because I don’t speak Armenian. How many other reasons can we find to exclude one another from the sacredness of ‘being Armenian’?
I once heard that a little girl asked an Armenian man whether he was “a Persian Armenian or an Armenian” (“Duq hay eq te parskahay?”). Unfortunately, we still have such imbecile parents among us. The sooner we fix them, the better.
Armenia is not the only country that has problems to decide who is Armenian and who is not. – Decades ago a group of colored Ethiopeons came to Israel pretending to be Jews. They were right, but it lasted years till they were accepted. Thousands of Israelis could not imagine that colored Jews could exist.
Being an Armenian should not be limited to religion. I think any person who says they are Armenian is in my eyes.
I welcome you all. We were Armenians long before Christianity.
I grant you Ahmet, you sure often have good questions.
“More than my love to Armenianness, it was my bitterness to its enemies that drove me to quit the Czar’s army in the Far East, and joined in the Armenian Resistance, thus becoming a fedayee”, says Roupen. He quit his rank, easier life as a Russian officer, and went underground with no shoes/no clothes/ no food/ no weapons… into proper Armenia of Van, Sassoun & Moosh! Fierce defender of the Armenian Church, kind of an atheist, he played major role in delivering an 85% – Armenian Armenia!!! And it is Njteh who coined: I cannot hate you; you are an Armenian!!! The morale? Silence and limit all those, who divide us, disperse us, fraction us, separate us! And the top of this list is our non-inclusive Armenian Church! In our villages, in the absence of forms of governance, our Church was everything for us: School, language, community, organization, inspiration… But it cannot go on holding us hostage! We have Statehood and citizenry now, and religious people should serve only one’s conscience and beliefs. Our Armenian common denominators are far larger than a Catholicos or two, a Patriarch or two can interpret. All-inclusive attitude is imperative! BTW, I’m Apostolic, and don’t ask me which See I belong to: They are all mine, and I’ll attend one and all!
hEY aVERY ,
wHERE ARE YOU
sEE WHAT vAHAGN SPEWS(VENOM) IN A SHEKER HELVASI MANNER THOUGH!!!!
right above Bethel Bilsikian…
He makes us believe that these Turkified armenians -sort of-planning(their MIT Turkish intelligence) mindsset prepared to immigrate to Armenia ..-in case they so wish to do ,i.e.) how would that be arranged???????????????????????
Why not formulate it the other way around buddy boy-like avery says to people like you-Why not we from Diaspora Marseille, B-Aires and Boston l.A. go to our Ancestral lands and raise our TRICOLOUR THERE and live under that Flag.We can do that too eh???
So formulate it that way Mr. Vahagn oglu..And indeed we can teach them to speak Armenian and fare well and become christian again, also accept them as our brothers after they swear in and learn what we want them to learn not the Turks!!!!
After all those lands are there with thousands of Armenian monuments etc., and AghTAMARA and sourp Giragosa (yet another one soon St. george,Sourp evork in Sivas ,soon to be rehabilitated8so to speak ) to blow more dust into our Paremid hyes and Stupid odars…thinking Turkey has changed!”!!!!
Ha ha ha !!!not in another hundred yrs.they may dress,behave like Euros outwardly but the INSTICNT TO KILL AND TAKE OVER IS IN THEM.They simply must knee down (Officailly) their Their Gov.t functionaries that is and beg forgiveness and MAKE AMENDS LIKE GERMANY DID TO JEWS….period.So don´t imagin we shall let thme come in in droves, with toikish agents amongst them to blow up Armenia from within..you err that present RA is not that Sutpid.We are trying to by and by educate them that what Lenin stalin preached (brotherhood of nations) did not work not even in East Eurpoean nations let alone in Genkis khan lengtemour heir country of Turkey 8a made up one on conquered Istanbulla (Constantinople))
Right here, Sir.
Done: signed, sealed and delivered.
don’t worry: no nomad is a match for yours truly.
The last sentence says everything.Keep it in mind!
Before we try to solve ‘Armenianism’ issue first we should learn to separate state from religion. Religion should not dictate your everyday lives; but we are so grossly into religion, we tend to forget some things should not include religion. I remember distinctly one preist from istanbul had visited the third avenue church in New York City and started to preach about we Armenians should marry one another because we are being disolved in other cultures bla bla. I just walked out of the church and never returned. When I was growing up I was seeing this girl who was Armenian, but my mother thought she was a Turk yelled and screemed all over me. Forget about muslims, we were not even allowed to visit Catholic or Protestan churches in istanbul when i was growing up. The only way to resolve this issue of isolation is by education. New generations will eventually resolve this issue (not in our lifetime)
Vasken,
A Jew would never walk out of the synagogue and never return if he or she hear their rabbi preaching that Jews as a nation should marry one another. But in the case of the Armenian priest, you considered his plea as “bla bla”. Maybe he wasn’t wrong if we see things through a national prism?
Second, religion and faith—and I’m tired to write this on these pages—are divergently different notions. Yes, religion should not dictate our everyday lives, but the Faith—your sacral inner strife for guidance, purification and perfection—should, unless you’re an atheist.
I don’t have a remedy to this “Muslim Armenian” issue, the very name of it is, to me, a misnomer. But I’m trying to understand why almost everyone here calls for compassion, acceptance, and love towards those Muslims but, at the same, refrain from calling for compassion, acceptance, and love from them towards the mainstream Apostolic Armenians? They also need to change, gradually, maybe even convert back to the religion of their ancestors at some point. If a situation arises, God forbid, when they would need to partake in deciding the faith of Turkey’s remaining Christians, who can guarantee how they will act: as Armenians (tolerant, civilized) or as Muslim Turks (intolerant, savage)?
I guess my point is that this is a two-way street. It is not just us who we are required to accept them, but THEY, too, need to ask to be accepted.
Mr Kolancian,
Although John said it well, your post is one of the more ridiculous ones I have read here. Let me get this straight. You walked out on a church with a “bad” priest because he was preaching for the survival of the Armenian identity? I say God bless that priest. And with such an opinion, I would ask you, why do you bother going to ANY Armenian church, and why even get involved and care about Armenian issues at all and why are you here? Are you suggesting that if the Armenian people do the opposite of what the priest suggested that we would survive and hence your “enlightened” message to the Armenian community at large? GET REAL… and don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
Kudos to Doris and Arda Melkonian sisters and to Anush Suny, three bright Armenian UCLA scholars, who, through their participation in this conference at my alma mater, Robert College, have enlightened us
by tackling head-on the here-to-fore taboo subject of “hidden Armenians”. They have served a noble cause by highlighting a historical injustice to our people.
Kudos to Doris and Arda Melkonian sisters and to Anush Suny, three bright UCLA Armenian scholars, who, through their participation in this conference held at my alma mater, Robert College, have bravely tackled the here-to-fore taboo subject of “hidden Armenians”. They have contributed to a noble cause by highlighting a historical injustice visited on our people. For this we are grateful.
I am delighted to read so many good comments on such an issue as Islamized Armenians. How much of these come from Armenia is not clear to me. My guess is probably not much. As we see prejudices towards non-orthodox Armenians, gender eqality and other social issues are deep-rooted in our homeland and that of course does not help build a free and democratic society.
Notwithstanding this clown, who calls himself Ahmet – who by the way is too ridiculous to ansewr-, I am delighted to see so many good comments on such an issue as Islamized Armenians. I don’t know how much of this comes from Armenia. My guess is probably not much. As wee see attitudes towards non-Orthodox Armenians, gender equality and other scoial issues in our homeland are still very traditional and conservative. That of course doesn’t help build a free and democratic society in which all Armenians would like to live.
It’s one’s call of conscience, call from the forefathers, that one may desire to be called Armenian. There is nothing to benefit from it socially, or in materialist approach; it is not a prize, a posture, a class to yearn for. I wonder if Armenia proper is a destination to emigrate to by someone who’s not Armenian. Why on earth would someone desire to be an Armenian, unless something bothers him in not being called one? Further, who holds the monopoly, the formula of classifying who is and who is not? You are an Armenian, if you are (or were) denied to be an Armenian. Religion; socio-economic status; citizenry; geography… are not obstacles to being an Armenian. p.s. Eye-opening fact: It never occurred to me, that not all Armenians outside today’s Armenia are diasporans. Listening to a talk by Hrant Dink, he enlightened me that Armenians in today’s Turkey are not diasporans, as they are living on their historical lands, on Armenia proper!!! Would one imagine, that one day, our Armenian brethren of Dersim and Hamshen and Diyarbekir and Van… may refute our Armenianness in the diaspora as well as in present Armenia? How can we aspire of our historic “Western” Armenia, yet doubt the Armenianness of those left behind?? Enough of this religiosity, of this selfish narrow definition of being an Armenian. These are our lands, these are the people who somehow perished but survived there; and we are the ones who aspire to go back to them!!!
Daniel,
Religiosity, we are told, is exaggerated or affected piety and religious zeal. I don’t see anyone here advocating it. Therefore, kindly keep “enough of this” to yourself.
What I see is indecisiveness and doubts of some about the identity of these Armenians, the identity that, as with any nation, is the sense of belonging to one nation, a feeling one shares with a group of people, and is based on several common points, such as language, history, national consciousness, blood ties, culture, music, cuisine, national colors and symbols, and, whether you like it or not, religion. Therefore, kindly keep “selfish narrow definition” to yourself, too. Religion is just one common point that defines national identity. These are not my words. These are conclusions of scholars and professionals in the field.
As much as we need to make an effort to embrace those people back to the Armenian family, as much they need to make an effort to embrace all or most common points that a nation comprises of. This is just my viewpoint, but, like I said, I don’t claim to have a remedy to this situation.
My dear zealot compatriot john, “religiosity” can be defined as “the quality of being religious”. Thus, your definition of “religiosity”, as with many of your ideas, is overly narrow. Daniel’s use of the word was proper.
Just because a particular food or religion are characteristics of the dominant part of a particular national group does not mean that these characteristics define a national group. You are committing the fallacy of definition, by confusing characteristics with a definition. In other words, just because most Armenians are Christians does not mean that it defines the Armenian national identity. A huge chunk of Armenians (those of Armenia proper) were until recently (are probably still are) atheists. They still are Armenians. Our Muslim brothers can define their Armenian identity any way they like, and there is nothing that you can do, which, by definition, makes your position irrelevant. They do not have to do anything or embrace any of your “national identity points,” just as they cannot force us to embrace their quite hygienic practice of circumcision. As for scholars, provide the name of one reputable scholar who states that Armenians can only be Christians.
Dear John. Assess what do these people have, and don’t have, versus the rest of Armenians, who live in present-day Armenia, Georgia, the Middle-Eastern diaspora, and the diaspora in the Americas, Western Europe, Australia… Language they don’t have – so is most of France and the U.S.; history they don’t know – so is in the West; cooking and the kind- I bet their’s is closer than our hamburger generation… In every aspect, I don’t see a different prospect. Yet, they are ON OUR lands – we are not; they may call for their roots – something I don’t see much in my town. But, let’s face it: The first thing comes to our mind, when we see these Armenians, IS THEIR RELIGION. Woooow, MOSLEM ARMENIANS??? My hometown Apostolic Church does not accept the Christian purity of the OTHER Apostolic Armenian Church ( let alone the Catholic, the Protestant, the others). WOOOW! What is this “Khazook”, where did this come from???? It came from OUR RELIGIOSITY, our narrow-mindedness when it comes to religion!!! I know where I stand with my Apostolic faith, but make nooo mistake: That is NEVER a mind-set, a hurdle, in acknowledging theequal Armenianness of any other!!!! I will never change my religious conviction, but I will keep the humility of accepting all others as equals ( I mean Armenianness is not a property I own solely; and will refrain from judging who can pass my litmus test). Keep one thing in mind: They live in THEIR homeland, and we all are incapable of that. And let no Catholicos or two take unto them the issue of conversion as a major obstacle. I remain convicted to defend any house Armenians worship, ’cause I’m the son of a man who was moslem from age 5 to 23 in Rakka of northern Syria, but who gave a family of over 60 descendants to the Armenian Apostolic Church (Now in Canada and in America). Take that narrow minded religiosity off our minds: Being Armenian encompasses all. Our fate made us Christian Apostolics; and our fate then made us Catholics, Protestants, Russian Orthodox, Georgian Orthodox, Sunni, Alawi, Zaza…Atheist. YET, LET’S ADMIT: Religiosity prevails among us; and each has a litmus test to check the Armenianness of the other! Best Regards!
I understand, Daniel. Like I said, I don’t have remedy to this situation. No doubt the reunification process between this group of Islamized Armenians and the rest of us will be uneasy. Each group will have to accommodate itself to another. And, except for the lands those Islamized Armenians live on, and I take your point on that, they will have to make an effort to acquire some of the “common points” that characterize our nation, whether it’s language or history or religion. The rest of us will have to make an effort to accept Islamized Armenians the way they are with the hope that acceptance to the family will gradually transform them or their posterity back to their roots. I realize it’s easier said than done, of course.
I would like to share this with all:
(1) My dad was born in Hasanbeyli (Cilicia) in 1909. At age 6, during the forced marches, he was taken away from his aunt (taken, given away, sheltered, nurtured, saved, survived) in Rakka (northeast Syrian deserts) by the Rahhal Arabic Sunni tribe. Lived a son’s life to that family, till age 23; and of course a Sunni moslem, trusted and loved as a son to the father. Early 1930’s, leaves to an Armenian Church in Aleppo, his roots cross-checked, surviving aunt/uncle/cousin reconciled (and without telling his adoptive moslem family that he’s leaving). This man had 9 children from my mom; never spoke Armenian; is the start of this clan of about 60 descendants, all in Canada and the U.S., all of Armenian schools, all Armenian speaking, all to do something with an Armenian church ( allow lower standards for the 3rd generation). My dad never knew the fate of his mom and his brother, forcefully separated from him during the marches ( her memory made him cry many a time; seeing similarity of her cheeks to a granddaughter of his). My dad also visited the Rahhal family in Rakka, they visited us too; he learnt that his adoptive dad had passed away a year earlier, and always cried after him, thinking he was lost to some accident. (2) Born in Hasanbeyli, a girl of similar age, survives similar ordeal in a similar tribe in Rakka too. She’s of the Boudoussian family, distant cousins to us. Early 1970’s, she visited Beirut after hearing that her 95 year old mom was still alive. She met her mom after about 60 years, met her sister, met her lately passed away brother’s family… yet she left back to Rakka, where she has built her everything, a whole Sunni moslem Arabic tribe family. (3) And what do the survivors in Hamshen, Dersim, Kharpert, Erzurum, Van, Diyarbekir…have? They have a land, some Western Armenian land under their feet, and some identity clarifications of their forcibly covert roots. They’re not looking for benefits; nothing that the Pope or the Missionaries may send; no exit visas; no better faith, or better language; THEY ARE NOT LOOKING FOR ADOPTION. Just need to clear the secrecies, the lies, and build some dignity of man towards the ill-games that gods orchestrate!