Aghjayan Delivers Talk on ‘Hidden Armenians’ in Ankara (Full Text)

On Jan. 18, writer and activist George Aghjayan delivered a talk in Ankara on Turkey’s “hidden Armenians.” He was speaking during a panel discussion held in memory of Hrant Dink. Below is the full text of his talk. 

***

The first time I traveled to Turkey was in 1996. I spent three weeks covering the length and breadth of the country, from Istanbul to Van, from Erzurum to Musa Dagh. The land had been calling me for some time, yet the trip was extremely difficult emotionally and physically. Even though I had left many things undone, it took 15 years before I could even begin to put behind the emotional scars from that trip.

It was the re-consecration of the Surp Giragos Church [in Diyarbakir/Dikranagerd] and the conference on the social and economic history of the Diyarbakir province organized by the Hrant Dink Foundation that brought me back in 2011. I found a much different reality in Turkey and have now returned 4 additional times since 2011. I am profoundly thankful to the organizers of this event for providing me yet another opportunity to be here and to reflect on the cruel murder of Hrant Dink.

Hrant observed, “When we talk of 1915, we should not just speak of those who perished, but also of the experiences of those who survived.” Over the almost 20 years now that I have been traveling to Turkey, I have met many Armenians, and I would like to share a few of their stories.

I think of my first trip to Keserig where we met a very old Armenian woman. My uncle, whose family was from Keserig, was asking if she recognized our family name. As the conversation progressed and the crowd around us grew, I remember a man getting very angry with us and screaming, “Why do you ask about the Armenians?” I distinctly remember another man shouting him down, telling him to go away, and kindly offering to show us where the church and other significant places had been. It occurred to me that, quite reasonably, the first of these men represented the descendants of those who committed the genocide. If not literally, surely in spirit, those who deny the genocide and reveal their racism today are linked to the criminals of the past. The second man, in turn, represented those whose humanity demanded that they rescue Armenians.

I think of the visit to my grandmother’s village of Uzunova where one of the leading men revealed that both his grandmothers were Armenian. My own grandmother was a young girl when she was taken as a slave to a Muslim family. Her father murdered, her mother and two sisters sent on the death march never to be seen or heard from again, she survived six years in servitude before her sole surviving sister rescued her.

When I met this man, I felt the bond of two sons of the village—his grandmothers were taken and never escaped, while mine was rescued. We were two sides of the same coin.

I think of our wonderful friend Armen who has bravely embraced his Armenian and Christian heritage, and his brothers who have remained Muslim. They open their home time and time again to Armenians visiting their village, and share their knowledge of the history of the region. This family, like so many others,  has seen the crimes against both Armenians and Kurds…crimes of hate and racism.

I think of Asiya from Chungush, about whom my friend, Chris Bohjalian, so eloquently wrote in the Washington Post. On one visit to Chungush, as we were about to drive away, her son-in-law tapped on the window of our van. Upon rolling down the window, he indicated that his mother-in-law was Armenian. Not knowing exactly who or why this man had approached us, we began to drive away. He stopped us again by banging on the window, this time with greater anxiety. As the window was being rolled down, he thrust his phone to my friend Khatchig Mouradian, and on the phone was a video of Asiya telling the names of her Armenian relatives. We would meet Asiya that day.

I think of entering a village near Moks, where I knew Armenian were still living in the recent past. On the main road to the village, we stopped a man who was walking by and asked if he knew of any Armenians living there. He said there was an elderly Armenian woman who was very sick and homebound. He indicated this woman’s son was working in the field just up ahead of us. So we drove on and eventually came upon a man working in the field. However, when we inquired about his mother, he indicated she was too ill to talk to anyone and was not Armenian in any case. His explanation for the confusion was that the other man had something against him and that is why he had claimed that his elderly mother was Armenian.

So, you see, those who descend from the remaining Armenians deal with their heritage in very different ways. The reception they have received from the Armenian community and their Muslim neighbors has been equally varied.

I recall the genocide survivor memoir titled, In the Shadow of the Fortress. It is a fascinating account from the village of Hussenig of what it was like for those who survived the genocide in hiding. The author recounts how after each round of deportation, there would be a period of calm followed by pronouncements that it was now safe for the Armenians to come out of hiding. After a period of time, the Armenians who naively believed such promises would be rounded up and marched off. This happened time and time again. Similarly, many of those who hide their identity today have survived over the decades by remaining silent, by not believing that the climate had in fact changed. Throughout the years, they have learned that those who believe in change and reveal themselves ultimately suffer persecution.

The Islamized Armenians must be welcomed back to their Armenian heritage. Not as second-class citizens, and definitely not to experience a new kind of discrimination. Every single Islamized Armenian is a precious miracle of the survival of identity and is the key to the return of the Armenian presence to these lands. Armenian culture and heritage was born of this land, and after a thousand years of assimilation and purposeful destruction, we demand the right of its return.

Today, there is a window of opportunity that has opened a crack. It is our challenge—those of us here today and others who are like-minded—to open the window wider, and permanently. If we fail, we may never have another opportunity. That is what the criminals are counting on.

George Aghjayan

George Aghjayan

George Aghjayan is the Director of the ARF Archives and a member of the Armenian Revolutionary Federation (ARF) Central Committee of the Eastern United States. Aghjayan graduated with honors from Worcester Polytechnic Institute in 1988 with a Bachelor of Science degree in Actuarial Mathematics. He achieved Fellowship in the Society of Actuaries in 1996. After a career in both insurance and structured finance, Aghjayan retired in 2014 to concentrate on Armenian related research and projects. His primary area of focus is the demographics and geography of western Armenia as well as a keen interest in the hidden Armenians living there today. Other topics he has written and lectured on include Armenian genealogy and genocide denial. He is a frequent contributor to the Armenian Weekly and Houshamadyan.org, and the creator and curator westernarmenia.weebly.com, a website dedicated to the preservation of Armenian culture in Western Armenia.

50 Comments

  1. Those hidden Armenians who whish to be considered Armenian, even though prefering to stay as Muslims, should be welcomed with open arms. Rejection of this group of people as Armenian on religious grounds should be condemned in strongest terms. In a revived West-Armenian presence in Turkey there should be no room for such bigotry.

  2. Fantastic article – gives hope that there still is an Armenia presence on the ground in Western Armenia. This presence needs to be nurtured, ever so thoughtfully, to someday once again see a strong Armenian culture in this land.

  3. Well stated! We definitely should welcome those who have survived in hiding.. They have lived a double life.. Tin fear and isolation… Ain’t fun nor is it easy…we need to have a heart for them…to support them in any way we can.
    They need to be assimilated, integrated, loved and welcomed to be part of the world wide Armenian Family..
    We will be a richer nation with their inclusion..

  4. I like to make a correlation between OUR Islamized Armenian heritage and OUR architectural heritage in Western Armenia.
    Why is it that the Armenian Church leadership and its clergy take full claim to the islamized churches, but not care about living souls of islamized Armenians?
    Are they not one and the same?
    Which is more important?

    • Harry you make a CRUCIAL point here. The church leadership is a political institution much more so (if at all…) than a humanitarian one. It becomes clear if you just watch the clergy stand by Sarksyan (or anyone in his position) on any official visit or ceremony. Imagine if the chief rabbi of Israel always stood by Netanyahu during official statements by what the latter claims to be a “Jewish state” (in contrast we don’t have such claims of exclusivity for our motherland). I’m not talking about the “Church v. State” paradigm and I’m not even against certain forms of inclusivity, but I do relate to the hypocrisy that you chine light over. Remember, for us – IMAGE outweighs sense by very very far!

  5. George, your title of writer and activist is well a propos. it amazes Aunt Vev and me to see you so active for the cause. You are to be congratulated and we are so proud of you. We often wonder how you are able to do all these things besides taking care of the family and your work.

    Bravo George, you are in our hearts and prayers.

    Uncle Peter

    the family and your work

  6. Turkey’s Hidden Armenians forcefully Islamized, but they are not Turkified. Turkish Ottoman’s bloody civilization could not take away Armenian spirit from them.

  7. No matter how we all feel but there is no such a thing as Armenian Muslim , Muslim religion is not accepted in our history or culture , sorry but these Muslims should live as turks .

    • Setrag,

      I don’t think you are entitled to decide for others on how they should live their lives. It’s up to them. If Muslim Armenians consider themselves Armenians, that’s it, nobody can take it away from them. I very much hope that they do and I would welcome them with open arms.

    • Dear Setrag

      Imagine you are one of the grandchildren of islamized Armenians, how would you feel?
      Those who actively practice our “inherited” religion should forgive for the sin whatever circumstance their grandparents have committed in. If we are true christians, ur souls must be large enough to embrace our brothers and forgive

    • The issue at stake is do we want to continue living in the middle ages (as we have been -and going strong- in too many aspects of our Armenian lives), or are we considering having a full-fledged, thriving, breathing, traveling, open-minded, potent, respected for its superior values (not superior religion, culture, genetics etc.) people, or maybe one day even state?

      All of us, Armenians, have enough collective intellectual power, (often more than) enough perspective, a sufficient body of historical cultural legacy and inherent identity (language, etc.) and perhaps even notable global contributions to not have to desperately cling to traditional values as the only way out of extermination. We must drop the (often subconscious) self-victimization…at least when speaking of identity and “Armenianness”. Perhaps a little Zen approach would not be entirely harmful, after all…Let it go and if it comes back to you – you were meant to be together…that kind of stuff.

  8. I fully share and support Mr. Aghhayan’s view that we should be vise enough to accept and welcome the islamized Armenians.
    Armenian first first . I take pride in our hidden past as much as our Christian present .
    Human history shows that religions come and go as they did… Any of us could have found ourselves in the shoes of those who stayed beyond and survived as they could …
    There is room and love in my understanding of Armenian spirit and love for everyone . The more the marrier … Armenia is in an Islamic neighborhood and if not anything else it would be a vise politics for our nation . Look at the state of Israel , they welcomed thousands of ethiopean / black Jews , and for some this translated to a good PR with African Americans and opened doors for wast African markets and reality . We Armenians as an ancient nation are a little “dry” when it cones to being politically / culturally flexible…
    I have no problem accepting and welcoming a Muslim ,Buddhist , Hindu , atheist or any other sort of Armenian person, as long as they are good constructive human beings, consider themselves , and take pride in being Armenian . God knows allots of evil has been done in the name of different religions , all professing that their religion is the best and the right one . Please , let’s love , live and let live . On the same note I think it’s high time for Armenian nation to overcome the pain and catastroph of the genocide and next to our “pure” traditional Arnenian culture and heritage also claim our wast Ottoman era
    Crural heritage . Like Jewish people claim their yiddish / European cultural heritage even tho they experienced genocide there .
    The dominant language was turkish in the
    Ottoman empire , we were part of it , we created and contributed to all areas of “Ottoman” life and culture . Why give this to Turks ? Why present what we created on the
    silver plater to them ? Do we have that right ? I don’t think so . From music , to theater , to architecture , to science , to literature we have greatly contributed and built what today many consider a “Turkish ” culture .
    It is time we get little pragmatic and real .

    • Please do not try to find similarities with other nations or states, particularly with the racist and discriminating entity “Israel”, where African Jews contrary to your belief are discriminated and treated as second class citizens, and this is a major social and public issue there.
      I suggest to all persons concerned to leave the practical aspect of “hidden Armenians” to the Armenian religious and secular authority in Turkey, they know best how to deal with such matters.
      Harout Chekijian

  9. I have a dear running friend who is strident Irish Catholic. He is very intelligent and always opinionated. One day I asked him, “Billy, which is more important to you, being Irish or being Catholic”. After a few days, his answer was, “It was more important to be Irish”.
    I think of our present situation with Armenians who are Muslim and are brave enough to come out and declare they are Armenian. For some reason there is an inner calling to declare who they really are. Many also did not know they were Armenian. It is a new phenomenon in Turkey where they are asking and learning of their heritage. Life is just a bit easier now than it was in the recent past being an Armenian in Turkey.
    I am sure that many Armenians in the Apostolic faith were upset when other Armenians converted to the Catholic or Protestant faiths, even though they were Christians but they were not considered Armenians.
    Accept and embrace these poor souls who desire to just be who they are and let time determine what the future will bring.

  10. Armenian is not a religion , It is a nationalism. We can be orthodox, catholic , protestant . or muslim . Christ was not Armenian neithe Mohammad. Whoever do not accept mslim armenians is mistaken.

  11. Setrag G.
    Hold on! Gina is right, who are you te decide who is Armeian who is not. Worse, telling them “to live as Turks” shows a callous heart and an alienation from realities surrounding our people.

  12. I would approach this issue more cautiously.To begin with indeed these people,like GB writes(unlike Sylva Med,who now and then puts in a few good lines of poetry re our problems and near had convinced me that these were Turkified and not Islamized Armenians)the latter is true.But that is besides the point.Obviously we are up against an important matter.Accept them as our brethren and sister,why sure,we should.But this might be rather immature and with quite the opposite results for our Genocide acceptance by great Turkey.You see I am very much suspicious and a hundred times more uncertain that great Turkey with a vast number of its population will so easily be changed to tolerate A WESTERN ARMENIAN HOMELAND-again- oin the heart of what they call their ¨Anatolia¨.Having for the past near century convinced their as well as any other non Turkish people(except us of course) that even if Ermenis have existed on those lands,it has been thanks to their merciful attitude towards those RAYA ERMENIS.Consequently to so easily be¨taken in¨ so to say,is tantamount to (capitualtion) signing our defeat again-as it has been in the past by our hasty young and un-experienced leaders. By far it is more advisable to await the OUTCOME OF THE GENMOCIDE ACCEPTANCE by great Turkey and then proceed with the un-ISLAMIZATION OF OUR BRETHREN THERE.This I write ,as I know our characteristics by having been in touch with so many a self-proclaimed ¨volunteers¨ who run headlong into traps laid by our adversaries-not to say enemies- of not too long ago.
    Furtheremore all of political parties and organization have had ONLY one objective in mind and efforts.that of bringing the culprit to rightful judgement and punishment.Latter,in terms of FINES.More clearly compensation for blood shed by them BLOOD MONEY.I am certain this is the only way we can be sure of solving and resolving our problem .No other way out.Otherwise we may be doomed to yet another -this time different type-of genocide.That of making us again subjects to a regime that so far has not confessed TO ITS PREVIOUS CRIME and feels free to act as it pleases.Indeed having won the case against us by conducting us into their set trap-.
    One more thing before I close.if some of us are so much nostalgic,so to say of going back to ancestral land and become ¨kardashlar¨with friend and foe there and re establish themselves in their mixed neighbourhood,then let them GO.And we who know better that it is best to wait OUTCOME OF SO MANY YEARS OF W A I T AND STRUGGLE,shall -unfortunately-see their subjugation there there again,if not totally ,this time (covered up) raya situation.Not to forget what they have just these days declared their 3 billion dollars set aside budget to respond/counter Armenian 100th Anniversary of Genocide preparations by us.
    In brief,we carry on what we started to do to bring it to a successful end and then submit the poor souls that have been hiding there as Islamized victims of the murderous tribes.I am from Iran but of western and Eastern Armenian parents and have lived in a moslem country,that is called Iran.Never have I heard that any Armenian there (since 450 yrs of their displacements from Nulfa to New Julfa in Iran has been persecuted.Nay even looked at as inferiors!!!!quite the contrary.That is one reason a Persian or Iranian Armenian cannot as yet fully understand and accept that Islam has enmity towards us Armenians…no any Arab country either!!!
    If some Armenians after having been subjected to hideous crimes ,tortures and persecutions again wish to test it again before complete official confession and compensation by perpetrator….BAZHALSTA -PLEASE GO AHEAD.Prudence is my motto in light of pure logic and …past experience many times over, plus what the leaders and majority of great Turkey openly profess.Going to do Topography so to say and contact the hidden Armenians in Western Armenia hastily,resulting perhaps yet subjecting these poor souls to another persecution-to say the least-is not logical, period.Wait and see is the right approach.Wait at least till the 100th Anniversary of our sacred martyrs as RESPECT TO THEIR MEMORY!!!
    Let me add a few more relevant issues,which really causes me pain. Some go over as tourist like and then some as to attend international conferences in universities in Istanbulla!!! and then some invite a few(very few) of their(great Turkey´s)Orhan Pamuk like Taner Ackcam and or Ayse Gunasu(countable on fingers)people and hear them express truth and are very much happy and satisfied with these. It does not occur to them to then ask these nice people to start like dear HRANT DINK their campaign( they are not one person but many) within the republic of Turkey.That is where the BIG SECRET SHOULD BE REVEALED TO THEIR BRETHREN AND SISTERS,more than anywhere else.
    Shad Parev Hasgcoghin

  13. ERRATA and Corection
    Please note one sentence above should read :-instad of islam has enmity towards us ,should read ¨Islam can have enmity¨…

  14. this is the calm period so the hidden Armenians would feel safe to come out, but they too will perish soon as the new administration takes over,
    the Turk respects one thing and only one thing Force, if they realize that they are not dealing with the weak, meek people of the past
    you hurt an Armenian, we shall hunt you down!

  15. Can someone explain to me why a “hidden Armenian” who may have 1/4 Armenian blood at most, and is probably a Muslim, should consider himself or herself to be Armenian? What happened to the 3/4 of his blood that is not Armenian? To whom is that person married? What % of Armenian blood do his children have? I have never seen anyone address this question, perhaps because the answer is not what we wish it would be.

  16. Bedros – perhaps the larger question is about identity of Turks themselves, at least the ones from the interior of Turkey eastward, which due to recent DNA studies (see http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/12/are-turks-acculturated-armenians/) implies that they are actually acculturated Armenians, i.e. the decedents of Armenians who became Turkified centuries ago.

    Given that such people represent a huge demographic it seems then that the task at hand is to reintroduce not only hidden Armenians to Armenian culture, including Christianity, but also to Turks in general. Some might ask, oh come on now… be realistic? Just consider though, when comparing the 2500 + years of freely expressed Armenian culture (history, art, literature, music) to the generally violent repressive Turkish culture (war, conquest, massacre, genocide) and the choice is apparent.

    We have a chance here, albeit not easy and now without work required, to set right not only the wrongs done in 1915, but also over the much larger time frame of the last 1,000 years since the Turks invaded our homeland. The hidden Armenians may just be the tip of the iceberg. Lets encourage people to be free thinking, that everyone can, and has a right, to choose their own identity. It’s common occurrence, and the source of greatness in the geographical region occupied by United States. Why can’t it be the same for the Armenian plateau, so that just as the Armenian nation formed some 2000 – 2500 years ago from a variety of disparate peoples, so too it can happen again. Remember what happened in the case of commemorating Hrant Dink, thousands chanting, “We are all Armenians’.

    • I’m in the “be realistic” camp. I think there are certainly individuals that would embrace their Armenian identity if Turkey was a more tolerant/civil society. There are even examples like singer Yaşar Kurt, who by chance found out he was Armenian and proceeded to get baptized and took an Armenian name and I believe is in the process of learning the language. While the “hidden” Armenians may do the same in, I don’t think those who don’t even know they are Armenian ( Turkified Armenians you referenced) would do the same. I also don’t believe your blood defines who you are, otherwise there would be no “Americans”.

      Speaking of America, you can’t compare it with our region. American is a made up identity formed by people usually had to leave their homeland escaping persecution or economic hardships ( at least historically). To them, America provided the opportunity to live life freely and with dignity ( helped if you were white but I digress…). To an average Turk, Armenians are the enemy, branded as “enemies of state”. That mindset can certainly change, in time. But Turks identifying as Armenians….. I mean I guess if you think about it “Turks” have been around for 1500 years or so, so who knows 2000 years down the road. But I’m really not that interested about things that far in the future, and I think it’s not possible to project that far in the future.

  17. Bedros
    Most probably, because the Turks do not accept them as “full-bloodied, pure” Turk, they are considered second or third class citizens and in popular speech they are even given a degrading name. We see that Turkish racism works against itself. Besides, they, in fact their ancestors, did not intermingle with Turks out of their own will, but were forced to do so. The fact that through all these decades they kept their identity should be concidered a great feat of devotion and sacrifice. We are not of course talking about those Turkified and/or Islamized Armenians who do not wish to have anything to do with Armenians. They are lost blood for us. But those who wish to be considered, or consider themselves, Armenian, we have no right to reject them on similar grounds as the racist layers of Turkish society.

  18. You make me laugh!There is an idiom in Turkey..”Pulling oil out from mosquito” It’s not a secret if everyone knows..Especially I know this reality..
    Measuring skull size, nose length, and recording the color of hair and eyes to determine whether people belong to which race or ethnicity is not in our interest..It seems to me that you hold a fascist worldview…There is no place in modern world for ethnically pure states..Taking aim at hate filled rhetoric poisons, rather than enhances community dialogue..
    After reading this article and comments being too clever by half, one can more fully identify your state of mind..We Turks bury our dead and you?Muslim armenians are not a tool of propagandist exhibit or conference that is dedicated to dead bodies… I really begin to wonder when armenian sociologists will put their thinking cap on to deal with cases of necrophiliacs in Armenia, seriously…

    • Atilla The Hun,
      Most liberal minded and intellectual Turks, who can read and write, easily can measure your brain size, send you back to Altai Mountain, by a Midnight Express freight liner, where your beloved invading Mongol Turks ancestors came from!

  19. I think this is one of the most over looked thing about the Armenian genocide, it is horrible that 2,000,000 million humans lost their life but the ones who survived lost their home. Not only did Armenians lose their home, but Anatolia lost a big part of its culture. I was born in the south eastern part of “turkey”, it saddens me to know that there’s a part of the puzzle missing there. Being a Kurd I realize that this land is as much Armenian as it is Kurdish, and I much rather live next to an Armenian than a turk even though I am a practicing Muslim. It’s not natural what is happening and has happened, Armenians have been there for 1000’s of years it’s their rightful place. Also not to be disrespectful or anything, but I don’t get the connection with being Armenian and Christianity as a cultural thing. There are Kurdish Jews, Christians, and Yezidi and they are all seen equal even though we are a Muslim majority, culture shouldn’t be defined by religion. Last bit, if you are planning on traveling to south east “turkey” please be careful. I come from a small town between Antep and Maras, its mostly Kurdish villages but the major cities around there are over run with settler “turks” who are usually ultra-nationalist. Even though it might be 2014, they still live in the stone age.

  20. As is evident from past discussion, the issue of Islamized Armenians has polarized us, the first group openly accepting and encouraging while the second not accepting or setting preconditions. It is my opinion that both sides make valid points. However, I will pose some questions to the first group on behalf of the second group.

    On the one hand we cannot dictate to those who have Armenian blood (and openly accept that fact) as to which ethnicity they choose to identify with. And as the accepting group indicates, we were indeed Armenians before we were Christians.

    On the other hand they are of a religion alien to our history, tradition, values and culture, not to mention the religion of the enemy who committed Genocide against us. The idea of a Muslim Armenian is perhaps even contradictory, as our entire history has been spent resisting and fighting that religion, ever since it showed itself on our historic lands 1400 years ago.

    One can argue that we need to accept those of Armenian descent even if they are Muslims, but can it not also be argued that if they cared enough about being Armenian they would first change their religion to Armenian Apostolic? After all the Jews have this requirement, why can’t we?

    Yet another question. Supposing that a sizable number of Islamized Armenians present themselves and demand to be accepted as Armenians, and the Armenian communities everywhere accept them as part of our community. What happens when one day the ‘Islam’ portion of the Islamized Armenians becomes adversarial or poses a security threat to both our communities and culture or even Armenia itself?

    To many, I know it is not ‘nice’ to be unaccommodating towards our Islamized kin who seek acceptance, but these are valid concerns that we must deal with and approach in a sober manner.

  21. Does anyone know how many Armenian descendants (Muslim or not) are currently in historical Armenia? People who know they have Armenian Ancestry? Also, the Turk of today is not the Turk who invaded Anatolia. They look more European than their tartar heritage. They themselves were physically assimilated through decades of marriage (forced or not) to the ethnic groups they conquered, e.g., Armenians, Greeks, Serbians, Romanians, Bulgarians, etc. Raising orphaned non Turkish children as Turks. Some even say that Sultan Abdul Hamid had an Armenian mother.

  22. Hakop D
    You have brought forth some valid concerns regarding this important issue, which I will try to address some of them.
    The first concern is that Islam is alien to our culture, history traditions and values and that the categorization “Muslim Armenian” looks even contradictory. Historically, you are right, that’s what has happened, but the question is: are we going to continue this relationship forever? Isn’t it time we made adjustments in our traditional way of thinking just to be able to survive better in the new world in which many old equations are changing? Why is it for instance that a country like Iran, which is even governed by an Islamic state, has the best relations with Christian Armenia, even much friendlier than with most Muslim neigbours? You might say this is politics. That would further prove my point that religion is and should be secondary to the higher interests of a nation. The Islamized Armenians are increasingly becoming a pain in the ass of the Turkish state and it is very important that we keep them on our side. They can be crucial in future in turning the tide against Turkish denialism. Your projections in the far future that some day a Muslim minority might be a security threat for Armenia do not hold water at this juncture, because untill then many things might change. As of now, the almost complete homogeniety of the population in Armenia has not helped to ensure the security or well-being of the people. The state corruption for instance can, and is, a security threat for Armenia.
    Further, your precondition that the Islamized Armenians turn to Christianity (and to the Apostolic church version at that, and not, for instance, to Protestantism or Catholicism!) to prove their Armenianness sounds a religion-inspired ultra-conservative concern that can lead to serious conflicts and alienation of groups of poeple in any society. No democratic state can afford to set such conditions for groups of its people as citizens with equal rights. That would be pure discrimination in every sense of the word.
    Finally, as the authour of the article correctly states: “Today, there is a window of opportunity that has opened a crack. It is our challenge—those of us here today and others who are like-minded—to open the window wider, and permanently. If we fail, we may never have another opportunity…”.

  23. I get what you are saying RVDV, and in many ways agree in the sense of a question that I think may be lurking somewhere in all these comments. That is, this whole idea of identity, is it national or religious? It’s my understanding (open to correction here), that identity in the Ottoman Empire was not based on ethnicity but rather religion through the millet system. So there were the Muslims (Turks, Kurds, Circassians and others), the various Christian millets, e.g. Armenian, Greeks, Assyrians, and also the Jews, all defined not according to ethnicity, but to religion. Of course language also played a part, but generally speaking you were what your religion was and in the case of Armenians or other Christians becoming Muslim, well it was a natural course for their descendants to become Turkish.

    Now fast forward some 1,000 years into the 20th century onward, when nationalism/ethnicity are considered the last word on identity and you have the confusion of where to place Muslim Armenians. I suppose there could be a similar problem if there were lots of Christian Turks. How really is identity to be defined? As Atilla says, “There is no place in modern world for ethnically pure states.”

    So fast forward again, say another 1000 years. I just wonder if nationalism/ethnicity will even be around? Perhaps it more likely that the human race will recognize that we really are just one entity, albeit of various flavors which we all can appreciate to make up a vast mosaic of human culture. My point here is not to dissuade Armenian, Turkish, Kurdish, or any other ethnicity to their identity, but rather to savor the different flavors. Granted as an Armenian it’s somewhat natural for me to fall into an ‘I don’t like Turks’ mindset. But if I’m honest, I’ve met Turks that I liked as people. It’s expected that in this current time we are all a bit stuck in nationalism/identity, but perhaps, and it’s more of a question really, we should also look to the future of a human identity with different flavors. In that context, the idea of Armenian Muslims is not really a problem that needs to somehow be decided, but rather an interesting new flavor that we can appreciate.

    • “That is, this whole idea of identity, is it national or religious?”

      I don’t think there’s an answer to that question. Depends on personal preference. I view myself primarily as a Turk, you could say I was raised as a Turk. But I am an ethnic Kurd. So what am I? A Kurd? While I do not hide my Kurdish background I reject that identity. PKK are terrorists and cowards in my book, I do not support the Kurdish independence movement, I never have, and if Kurdistan does gain its independence, I have no desire to ever go to such a place. It means nothing to me; those people are not my people. But that’s just me. Identity to me is based on whatever the individual deems important. More religious Armenians might reject Muslim Armenians, while progressives may happily accept them, but that’s not the point is it? The primary issue is whether these Muslim Armenians are REALLY on board with being Armenian, if they truly committed to your cause. Because, in the end, going back to my personal example, what good is a Kurd like me to the Kurdish cause? BUT,If they are committed to the Armenian cause and Armenian nation, then who gave any other Armenian the authority to reject them?

      As far as the Millet system, I think you’re right. Ethnicity really came to the forefront with nationalism in the 19th century.

      “So fast forward again, say another 1000 years. I just wonder if nationalism/ethnicity will even be around? ”

      Even if it’s not around, don’t worry, humans will always find new reasons to hate one another. We’ll find new ways to construct in and out groups. I would need to write an essay to express my detestation of nationalism and the mindless masses who live their lives in its confines. But who knows, maybe we can overcome it one day and live life appreciating each others differences and not live in fear of it.

      To quote Charles de Gaulle: “Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first”

  24. To be honest, the Hidden Armenian title isn’t right. Because, The people in Turkey know each other’s ancestry so you can not hide your identity in reality unless you you move to large cities and do not tell your ethnic origin to your children.For example,you are living in a village and do not want to tell your children that you are Armenian but when your kids start the school, their classmates will tell them that they are Armenian so who is hiding and why? I know this will entertain you guy a lot but there is nothing to make a fuss about or get excited

    • Ce n’est pas heureux, pour nous Armeniens, de savoir qu’on a aujourd’hui plusieurs generations d’Armeniens islamises [et caches]..parmi eux beaucoup savent qu’ils ont aussi l’origine armenienne.. certains veulent perpetuer ce qui leur a ete transmis.. des prieres chretiennes.. le peu de culture, de traditions, armeniennes..

  25. Are hidden Armenians really Armenians or are they simply people who are part Armenian by blood and consider themselves to have some interest in Armenian things? What do the consider themselves? I doubt that they think of themselves as Armenians. On whose side would they fight? Whom do they marry, in general?
    I don’t see anyone answering these questions.

    Also, regarding the amount of Armenian blood in Turks, I would just say this to Armenians: be careful because if Turks are Armenians then Turkey is Armenia.

    • @Pauline, here is my response to your questions. First of all, Turks are not Armenians because Armenians would not secretly and under the cover of WWI exterminate their own people. Second, Turkey is indeed Armenia because while Armenians are indigenous to these lands, the Turks are none other than sheep herding nomads from Mongolia and Northern China who invaded and occupied our homeland.

      As far as the so-called hidden or Islamized Armenians are concerned, they are Armenian genetically if they have Armenian blood but since they are Muslims they are “incomplete” Armenians and can never be classified as Armenians in the true sense of the word. I know there are some among us who want to sound politically correct and take out the religion from the equation that defines who we are as Armenians but those are the misinformed and the black sheep of the Armenian family so to speak. The religion of Islam was used as a tool by the blood-thirsty Turkish sultans and pashas, as well as Turkish Imams, to help expedite the extermination of the Armenian race. Based on this fact alone, Islam has no place in the Armenian life and makeup and must be eradicated by all means. Furthermore, religion is not just about believing in some higher authority but it also encompasses a set of rules by which our character is defined and shaped. Therefore, Christianity is also a distinct form of life style, if you will, that separates us from those who practice other religions. The Armenian identity is like a round pie having multiple slices. Each slice, such as language and culture, defines a specific character and all slices together collectively defines us as who we are as Armenians. You still are an Armenian at the core if a slice is missing in your makeup, but you are not necessarily a complete Armenian and not now nor ever can Islam be a substitute for one of those missing slices.

      An Islamized Armenian implies an Armenian who was forced to convert to Islam against his will and therefore such an Armenian should voluntarily give up his fake Muslim religion in order to be a full member of his Armenian kin. The term Muslim Armenian is an oxymoron and the idea of an Islamized Armenian should never be allowed to foster among the Armenians at large.

  26. menq bolors hayenq inh tarberutyun te inch kronienq patkanum, yerp menq cristonya cheyinq tagavorutyut ooneyiqeyv bazmakroneinq.

    • Ւսլամը, բացարձակապես եւ բոլորովին ոչ մի տեղ չի կարող գրաւել հայի կեանքում. Քրիստոնեությունից արաջ եթէ մենք բազմակրոն էինք դեռ Իսլամ գոյություն չուներ.

      Հայը երբեք չպիտի թոյլ տա Իսլամը արմատ ստանա իր ազգում որովհետեւ նաեւ Իսլամի շնորհիվ էր որ Հայոց Ցեղասպանությունը տեղի ունեցաւ.

  27. The spirit and the culture is and will be always Armenian.
    The decorations are always changing according to the situation.
    Armenian muslim, Armenian Jew and so on…
    Look at the American Indians some became Christians but they kept their Indian spirit and culture.

  28. Thank you, George, for your account. I am moved by your recounting and understand the emotional turmoil your trips must instigate. Our identity as Armenians and descendants of survivors is a complex issue, certainly evidenced by the variety of responses your article inspired. I can only agree that this is an important time to keep working through some of the identity issues and try to understand them. As a grandchild of survivors as well, I appreciate your efforts and value your experiences. Would love to hear more.

  29. After reading the above comments and much reflection, I believe that the “Islamized Armenians” should indeed be welcomed into our communities, not only as X number more Armenians to gain in our society and to heal our collective wounds, but also as a precious addition to our culture and history. However, I do believe that they should renounce Islam and be baptized in any Armenian church of their choice (Apostolic, Catholic, Protestant, etc.)
    Being born in America, I do see the temptation to accept anyone who desires to be identified as an Armenian as one of us, regardless of religion. After all, Armenian culture and language existed before Christianity. Also, given the rather secular identity Armenian has taken on, especially in the States, I suppose much of the new generation of Armenians don’t care much for religion.
    As a counter-example, let’s consider the issue of whether children of non-Christian immigrants in present-day Armenia are to be considered Armenians. They are born and raised in Armenia of Iranian parents, for example. Who is more Armenian, him or the Islamized Armenian from Turkey? Is it blood or upbringing that is more important?
    These are obviously difficult issues that are now coming to light in a post-Imperialist world. I agree with one of the earlier comments in that being Armenian is like a pie, and Christianity is a slice of that pie. Even if one is not remotely religious, one cannot deny the presence of Christian “grtootyoon” in the upbringing of an Armenian child. One other person made the point that although the idea of a Muslim Armenian is foreign to us, we have been living side by side with Muslims, be they Turks or Arabs, for centuries, and even integrated into their societies. In Israel today, Armenians sympathize more with the Muslim Palestinians than with the Israeli Jews. However, when push comes to shove, there are undeniably fundamental differences between Muslim and Christian thought process, upbringing, concept of gender equality, etc. That is whole other article on its own.
    All my life, whenever explaining my Armenian ethnicity to an “odar,” I have always taken great pride in the fact that all Armenians are Christian, and that Armenians of other religions do not exist, excluding of course converts and other outlying scenarios. I consider this a distinguishing characteristic from Iranians or Russians, for example. There are Iranian Jews, Iranian Muslims, and Iranian Christians. When one says he is Iranian, his identity is still incomplete because the second question of his religion is still unanswered. Although this adds another kind of beauty to a culture, I don’t think that that is what Armenia needs at this moment in its history.
    For most of the second millennium, we were geographically divided between empires, developed different dialects and different church headquarters. Do we really need yet another larger, and potentially much more harmful division within our religions? Imagine that in 50 years or so, we will have a community of Muslim Armenians in Turkey. After another 50 years, there will emerge Shiite Armenians who have branched off from the original Sunni Armenians, causing even more tension. One only needs to look at the current state of the Arab world to predict the religious conflict that can potentially occur.

    The game of Islam is an old one, and we Armenians think that we can harmlessly and quietly enter it now in 2014, when Alawis and Sunnis are killing one another in the backyard of one of our richest cultural hubs, Aleppo. Armenians have no business with Islam, and Islam has no business with Armenians. It is a romantic notion to welcome a suppressed descendant of our ancestors with open arms. He is one of us, yet he is not. Let him be baptized, adopt a non-Muslim name if he had one, and not step into a church for the rest of his life, for all I care. But willingly creating and nurturing a subset of Muslim Armenians is just asking for more trouble, and it is entering a dog in a fight that we have no chance of surviving in. We already tried and almost failed. Let’s not make the same mistake twice.

    • [“whenever explaining my Armenian ethnicity to an “odar,” I have always taken great pride in the fact that all Armenians are Christian”]

      Right there, I see a problem with you calling non-Armenian Americans as “odars”. Their nation accepted your ancestors allowing you to be born in the USA and enjoy rights and freedoms that you would not enjoy even in Armenia. Perhaps it is the source of your intolerant attitude, and you may want to work on it.

      We do not create divisions by accepting Muslim Armenians. To the contrary, we create such bitter divisions when we do not accept them. Sunnis and Shias in Arab countries kill each other because they are taught the kind of “us vs. them” intolerance that you advocate, and because they live in repressive regimes. In your home country of the USA, Sunnis, Shias, Armenians, and others live side by side without killing each other. A Muslim Armenian who considers himself an Armenian is not going to attackbother Armenians just because he is Muslim.

      A fundamental notion that we need to understand is that we have absolutely no power to make Muslim Armenians not consider themselves Armenians or to change their religion. They cancinsider themselves whatever they want, and we cannot do anything about it. By refusing to acknowledge their identity, all we will do will be to alienate them and create the kind of divisions that you ard afraid of.

  30. To top it off,I would like to point out all or almost all here on this discussion have neglected the the delicate issue,rather the most important one.That of Genocide acknowledgement by great Turkey.
    All talk is centered around acceptance of these poor souls(converted into Islam in order to save their skin).Which means they were pressed into it…..
    There is no such thing in the version described and compared in that an Iranian family or plain Iranians raised in Armenia,are to be considered as Armenian???
    what paremid talk is that.Indeed there are some very few Iranian(Persian)living in Armenia(have learnt the language,so what??? But they attend their Mosque in Yerevan.Unlike the bloodthirsty turkbeijanis Persians have never omposed Islam on Armenians who have lived for over 4r50 yrs in Iran.
    I think, some people here are not updated and have very little knowledge of the issue of Hemshentsi or Islamized(turkified) Armenians. Moreover the whole of the ISSUE,that of accepting these poor souls with open arms into Armenian(s)..is rather immature.Who is so OPTIMIST as to think or imagine great Turkey will allow These people to declare themselves8be baptized) in Istanbulla ,Izmir or any other Western Armenian township (Diarbakira????? and those Paremids,not to say Barzamids think great Turkey is to allow all that?????
    No such think, just trying to feel our pulses and/or themselves the (Turkish diplomacy),in order to gain ground for entering eU is staging all these so to say-softening up-strategy…in order -above all*-to show to westerners that they are entering improvements in their Fascist Regime and are open to become real Euro-partners…
    Humbug!! if some think this can so easily be accepted by the majority of their(Trukish) population…then go and try it out there in Diasbakira and live under great turkey FLAG/rule!!!!
    However, if some prudent people understand what is at stake what with our 100 year old Odyssey,nay Golgotha..then keep calm and wait and see what other such ´cards¨ are thrown in by great Turkey in order to trap our paremids and by and by give up our DEMAND FOR JUSTICE for blood shed and above all COMPENSATE US for it !!!!
    Other than that GO.please go and try to make up with them and live there…

  31. Arshag, we don’t know to what extent those Armenians feel “Muslim” so we can’t actually predict whether it will bring harm, but we can’t ignore it either. We need more information. On a more positive note, probably most of them know that after coming out and being accepted as Armenians, they are also on their way to changing their religion by default.

    And yes if they will convert, it will need to be to Armenian Apostolic specifically, because that is OUR church. I don’t think of Armenians who have adopted Catholicism or Protestantism as less Armenian, but those religions do not have a historical impact the same way to our culture. Armenian Catholicism is centuries old and they have done some wonderful work, and even has compatibilities with our church, but still it is probably not fully under Armenian control. The Protestants and their dozen or so factions are are even further away from our cultural church, and would not be a good introduction for our kin who are being re-introduced into the culture. For them to turn to non-Armenian Apostolic religions from the get-go denies them the actual experience of becoming Armenian. And here I am not saying this from a theological perspective, but a cultural one.

  32. Ararat
    You may categorize for yourself who is Armenian who is not according to your religious beliefs, which in practical terms I don’t find much different from the Islamic division of the world in the “House of Islam” and “House of War”, meaning the part that is occupied by non-Muslems. But, the reality is (fortunately) that those Islamized Armenians who wish to be concidered Armenian are already accpted with open arms by our Armenian compatriots in Turkey.

    And to Gaytzazg Palndjian with due respect,
    who claims that people opining in these pages are not updated, which means that he is well-updated, I should remind that increasing numbers of hidden Armenians come out and participate in Armenian language classes or convert to Christianity both in Diarbekir and Istanbul and very probably also elsewhere in Turkey. No one forces them to do so and should not either. Faith is something you cannot and should not force on others. It should come out of free will. There are Moslim Armenians who, while keeping their Islamic faith, help preserve and upkeep the already functioning Saint Giragos Church in Diarbekir. And so far, there have been no reports of any harrassment or hinderance on the part of authorities on such Armenians. The accounts of these and similar happenings you can read in the articles and reports of these pages in AW and in this very article.
    I would advise to some of my compatriots here to open their eyes to new realities.

  33. Hakop D.
    What about those Armenians, whether Christian or Islamized by birth, who simply don’t want to do anything with any religion? You may keep yourself preoccupied with (any) religion you like, but you should realize that looking at everything with religious glasses can have the danger of encroaching on the higher human values which connect all humans. As we see, religions do not connect people, but rather separate them. Unless our approach to our Islamized kin is based on such common values (and not on religion) there is little chance that we can integrate them into the Armenian mainstream folk.

  34. I have just read this thread, in 2016. Thank you everyone because you have helped me to reflect on this issue from a variety of perspectives! It is my view that we simply develop relationship with all who want to resume ties with their Armenian heritage, with no strings attached. We are all so complex, and have walked a variety of paths that have merged and mingled and also separated off in so many ways that cannot be coined or even clearly named. In my view, there can be no judgement on this complexity, simply a recognition of it and a welcoming and stance of curiosity at how we have all survived and carried on and, done this in our own way.

  35. My maternal grandparents were orphaned at the time of Armenian genocide. My grandmother was from Hafig, Sebastea and my grandfather was from Patrig(Fethiye), Malatya. Her elder sister came to live with her relatives in Ishani, an Armenian village that survived the genocide. My grandmother used to call my grandfather “ Kalayci”, most likely Kalaycian, rather than with his given Turkish name. Before her passing away, my mother told my brother that her family were Armenians. Also, one of her close relatives was denied government position, because , he was told, his family were Armenians before the Republic. I want to know more about my family roots. Any Kalaycians or Kalayjians from Malatya?

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