WASHINGTON (A.W)—As the diplomatic row between Israel and Turkey continues, attempts are being made by the Israel lobby in the U.S. to infuse some calm. On Jan. 16, the Jerusalem Post reported that the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) found the appointment of Namik Tan as ambassador to the United States a welcome move, since Tan is a former ambassador to Israel and, before that, served as a liaison with the Jewish community in Washington. Tan replaced Nabi Sensoy as ambassador when the latter abruptly resigned in December.
According to the Jerusalem Post, Jess Hordes, the director of the ADL’s Washington office, said, “I would like to think there was a certain calculation in sending him. The fact that he’s known in Washington, on the Hill, and that he’s worked with the Jewish community, which he served in Israel, I would like to think that that’s [one] way of sending a positive signal.”
‘1915 was a genocide, but…’
Hordes added that the ADL’s position on the Armenian Genocide had not changed. “We continue to believe that there was a genocide, but there’s no useful purpose in the House or the Senate passing a resolution on it at this time. It’s a principled post that the better way of addressing this issue is for the Armenians and the Turks to move forward with this through the historical commission,” Hordes said.
Concern about ‘anti-Jewish climate’
On Jan. 13, the ADL issued a statement renewing “its concern that Turkish society is becoming increasingly and openly hostile to Jews and Israel—with harmful statements by government officials and hateful depictions in the mass media.”
“We continue to be concerned about a new environment in Turkey which permits and even encourages extreme expressions regarding Jews and Israel,” said Abraham H. Foxman, the ADL’s national director. “We cannot ignore this new atmosphere in which distorted views of Israel and Jews are freely expressed and made to seem acceptable.”
The ADL wrote a letter to Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan citing his government’s “harshly critical statements”—and his own remarks during a recent a visit to Lebanon—as a case in point. Erdogan had condemned Israel’s actions in Gaza, accused the Jewish state of threatening to undermine “global peace,” and called for the UN Security Council to consider sanctions against Israel.
The ADL’s letter also pointed to two recent television dramas that portrayed Israelis and the Israeli military as inherently evil and conniving. The recent television series “Valley of the Wolves” reportedly featured Israeli agents as baby snatchers.
“While we have celebrated Turkey’s history of coexistence with Jews and the protection Turkish society provides for its Jewish community, we cannot ignore this new atmosphere and its potential consequences,” said Foxman. “We respectfully urge the Turkish government to speak out directly to reject anti-Semitism and incendiary demonizing depictions of Israel and Israelis, and to reiterate Turkey’s support for its Jewish community.”
The ADL is unbelievable. They believe it was genocide but that we should work with a government whose Prime Minister called genocide “a lie” in a recent Charlie Rose interview in a historical commission??? What on earth do they get out of this slavish relationship to Turkey that they’d bend themselves into such a horrifically illogical pretzel?
Let the Armenian nation decide what is the best way to get recognition. I think if the Jews and Nazis just sat down and talked about their differences, that would have been a better route than getting recognition from the United States.
Their is no difference between Nazi indoctrination and Turkish indoctrination. The ADL wants us to believe Turkish indoctrination is a lesser evil. If the Jews had paid attention, indeed if the whole world had paid attention and given the Armenian Genocide recognition, there perhaps would have never been a Jewish Holacost.
May the ADL, who acts as a proxy for the Turkish denial machine and the complicit world bodies go to Jahenem and quickly.
Interests, Interests… “It was Genocide, but it is not in OUR interests to acknowledge it”. “While we have celebrated Turkey’s history of coexistence with Jews and the protection Turkish society provides for its Jewish community”… Wow… as long as the Jewish community is protected in Turkey, the hell with everyone else! They were celebrating their lovely coexistence while Armenians were being butchered around them! Is Israel this afraid of Turkey? I guess it needs Turkey this badly!
Can you imagine someone saying: “It was a Holocaust, but it does not suit us to officially acknowledge it”! Unbelievable! Us Armenians, have been abused, disrespected and walked all over by everyone and anyone. Turkey is not only guilty of the Genocide, but it continues to actively and with every illegal way imaginable to cover that criminal act. Turkey should not only pay for the Genocide, but it should also pay for consciously continuing its genocidal goal by erasing Western Armenia’s history, desecrating our archeological and cultural sites, brainwashing its own people by distorting its own history and threatening everyone who speaks about the Genocide. It should pay for 94 years of psychologically abusing and traumatizing the survivors of the Genocide and their descendants by denying them rightful justice. The Genocide is not an act that Turkey’s ancestors committed in the past. It is a live policy system that has evolved into its final stage (ie the Protocols, and forcing the Armenian Govt to acknowledge the “Legality” of Turkey’s borders). We came a long way battling this denial. We now have to raise one loud, confident and dignified stance against everyone and anyone who dares to marginalize us. Israeli, Turkish, American, Russian interests…. their interests are THEIR problems! Unfortunately, we have been put down and looked down upon for so long as a people, that some of us insecure Armenians are inherantly programmed to put “other’s” interests first. This is OUR history, these are OUR rights, and who but us should fight for OUR interests! For once, can the Armenian Genocide be about us! We were the victims; it is time we raise hell and get the attention due to us! Turkey and its allies will not be able to avoid the Tsunami of movies, books, media coverage, legal and civic involvement that we are able and should put forth, TOGETHER!
“We continue to believe that there was a genocide, but there’s no useful purpose in the House or the Senate passing a resolution on it at this time” … No useful purpose for the ADL (ie Turkey and Israel) that is, for such a Resolution to pass. What a farce! No useful purpose for a crime to be acknowledged and for the victim to get what it is due to them, because Israel is not going to gain anything from that, at this time… So we should wait until the big players can gain something out of the recognition of our Genocide. It’s been how long? 94 years? What arrogance!
Well said Katia K. ! !
“We are strategic allies as long as our interests force us to do so,” is what Turkey’s defense minister said, about the “brotherly relations between Turkey and Israel.” You all read here, right from the horses mouth.
Such are Turks, they will use and abuse any friend, be it the USA, Israel, Russia, Armenians or the Kurdish peoples, and then…… BANG, they draw their swords to finish you off.
One advice for the state of Israel and Jews worldwide: ” Turks don’t love you, in fact they equate you all, alongsied Armnians and Kurds, to dogs.”
As a Jew I am ashamed of the ADL response. They are clearly bending over backward because Turkey is a little less anti-Israel than other Middle Eastern countries. I say to he!! with them until they recognize the Armenian Genocide and get their own house in order. Us Jews don’t need an organization pretending to represent us go soft on the Armenian Genocide because they’re afraid of the Turks. UGGH. Well, I make my views clear when the subject comes up, but there clearly isn’t enough education about what the Turkish people did. But yes, it’s very easy to see the hypocrisy of the ADL in this situation. As far as I’m concerned, if the Turks need us to placate them in order for them not to be anti-semitic, they’re not ready to deal with what happened and we shouldn’t deal with them.
We Armenians must learn from the Jews to more fervently promote our issues. Letters to the editor in local newspapers can help to present our message and history to others who might otherwise have no knowledge of the Armenian Genocide and how it is that the majority of Armenians in America came to be here. As an old Jewish boss used to say to me, “you have to toot your own horn,” we can and should!
I wonder who is controling the amarican government
Israel? Turkey? who?
Hye, do Jews really believe the Jews in Turkey have received ‘Turkey’s ‘benificence’ over the years?
Turks lie – and you believe? You just suffer as did the Armenians. Manooshag
The ADL has still not acknowledged the Armenian genocide in an official statement. Indeed, in its only official statement on the issue, in August of 2007 – and even though the statement used the word “genocide” – the national ADL used language that was actually a denial of the genocide:
It is vital to understand why:
http://npfdinfo.blogspot.com/2007/10/has-adl-acknowledged-armenian-genocide.html
Armenian Americans and others are also invited to visit http://www.NoPlaceForDenial.com to read all about the campaign by human rights activists against the ADL’s genocide denials. That site provides a timeline, articles galore, a Q and A, and much more. It is a valuable resource.
Most people will be shocked to read the sorry record of the ADL and similar groups’ working against Armenians: http://npfdinfo.blogspot.com/2007/10/press-kit-history-of-opposing.html
Does the region you live in have ADL sponsored programs such as No Place For Hate, World of Difference, and others? You will know what to do when you read http://www.NoPlaceForDenial.com.
What you say Katai k. is so right on. Lets tell OUR story OUR way. This is what my associates and I are trying to do with our films. Have a look at our short documentary film about Komitas at http://www.komitasthemovie.com which is a content preview of a feature film we are working on called, Red Harvest which tells the story of the Armenian Genocide from the perspective of Komitas and the 200 + Armenian intellectuals and community leaders arrested on April 24, 1915.
The reason that the phony ADL is against any just resolution of the Armenian Genocide is they know they need to protect their own Jewish interest ie: the great many Jewish segments of the Turkish military and ruling elite. The Muslim movement on the other hand, with Erdogan and his like, don’t really care for Israel or it’s Zionist grip of Turkey and want to dislodge it. These thing have happened before and usually end in a military coup. The military which is part of the “deep state” has had deep Zionist ties since the genocide. Also know that none in Turkey, other then a few scholarly intellectuals or human right activists, are for any just acknowledgement or resolution of the Armenian Genocide. This includes the Zionist elites and the Muslim political movements. It is sad however, that Jewish organizations in the U.S. while saying “everyone should stay out of the Armenian Genocide debate” are the first to actively participate in it very denial to protect their own interests. The ADL is one such purely phony, self serving organization and Armenians must learn that Jews aren’t their friends. Why don’t the Jews and the Nazi’s have a “historical comission” to iron out the reality of the Holocaust and leave most of America out of it? After all, if this is good for the Armenians then it must is good for the Jews!
Thank you Diran and Paul. And
David I am so excited about the link you gave us of the Komitas movie you have made. Movies, books and puications have trmendous power in educating and shifting public thought, and I truly believe that communication in all its venues can become our way to reach the justice that has been snatched away from us for so long.
I just read an article written by a Turk in an online journal. He said there are no Jews in the military, judiciary, as there are no Armenians. Jews have no power in Turkey, never had.
The reason the Turks, esp. the military, is disenchanted with Israel today is its supposed support of the Kurds and Kurdistan.
Actually, I don’t think the passage of the Armenian genocide bill would create any break of ties between Israel, Turkey and the USA.
However, support of the Kurds might lead to a disintegration of Turkey and a threat to its sovereignty and might be the cause of present friction and is the cause of worsening ties.
I don’t know how or why the ADL ever got involved in the Armenian genocide bill; but I don’t believe they ever belonged involved in it. They are not a civil rights org., rather a social club.
I thought what they did was wrong, and I was surprised to find out what was going on, and I was surprised that Dennis Hastert and Richard Kephardt were taking money from Turkey. I did not know that was happening either, and thought it was wrong.
However, the issue today is the Kurds, and I will be reading the articles here about the Kurds, and waiting to see what develops.
Remember, the Kurds are sitting on an oil reserve larger than the one in Saudi Arabia.
The Kurds are in three countries, Iraq, Iran and Turkey. Kurdistan to be one, has to bring together its pieces; and taking a piece from Turkey, which is also the Armenian homeland is the cause of trouble for Turkey.
Everyone thinks that us Israelis are stupid, or are hijacked by the Turkish government and intelligence. The truth of the matter is that in our country, Israelis know how Turks can overnight turn on us, that is why we are prepared. Israel has contingency plans to stop any and all Islamic Turkish hegemonies in the region. Whats more, we will cram their faces with the word GENOCIDE.
This people has Never learned to be civilized. They always follow Nazi idiologies eliminating poor peoples and systematically carry out Genocides.
They never were our friends, behind their smiles hid their hatred for Jews, Armenians, Greeks and Kurds.
Turks, Israel is ready for your stupid and irresponsible actions..bring them on…
Avi
To David Deranian,
Thanks for sending the tube on Komitas.
I think every child with even very few Armenian genes should know about genuinity of Komidas.
Still we know very little about him.
Komitas is Our Mozart.
Dear Dr. David Deranian,
I just finished watching the Komitas clip…. and couldn’t help but become teary eyed. I am so happy that you shared your work with the commentators here. I commend what you and your associates are working on. Telling the story of the first 300 Armenians who got arrested on April 24th 1915 is sacred work. All 300 were intellectuals, poets, physicians, composers, teachers, journalists, ellected officials… all unarmed individuals, but threatening to the Ottoman leaders because they were the voice of the Armenian nation. Without that voice, the defenseless population had no guidance or communication, and was rendered completely vulnerable to the atrocities that were planned for them.
For Avi,
The Jewish State has so far not acknowledged our Genocide for many geopolitical reasons, but on the other hand it was Rafael Lemkin, a Jewish, who coined the term “Genocide” based on what happened to the Armenians, our most cherished survival tale “The Forty Days of Mousa Dagh” was written by Jewish writer Franz Werfel, and the Armenian Genocide Resolution in the US is authored by several Jewish-American congressmen such as Rep. Adam Schiff. It is a shame, that the Jewish leadership and the ADL are not living up to the courage, dignity and integrity of these Jewish citizens.
Turkey has successfully used its allies in the US to halt the production of many Armenian Genocide movies including the making of the “Forty Days of Moussa Dagh”. It is succeeding to do this in a country which supposedly has freedom of expression! Dr. Deranian, my hope is that we will open our own independent production companies, instead of relying on movie companies that are under the influence of foreign lobbies, and just like you said, we should tell our stories in our way. Looking forward for your work…
I only know one thing:
Turkey is responsible for the Genocide.
They need to acknowledge this fact and soon.
Turkey is guilty of the Armenian Genocide.
Turkey must answer for the Genocide.
Turkey owns Armenians and many others monetary and land compensation.
It’s high time Turks came clean and clear their tormented conscience.
Avi
Is the ADL, or the ANC for that matter, concerned about the anti-Armenian climate in Israel?
Avetis, are you suggesting an all out war against AIPAC and American Jewry?
A sincere question for the Jews and Israelis who have posted above:
What can or will Israel (and Jewish American lobbying organizations) do to strike back at Turkey?
What leverage exists? What will happen? Will the military and economic relationship between the two countries remain intact no matter what happens on the rhetorical level? Or will even the military and economic relationship crumble? (I myself believe that Israel and Jews can totally crush Turkey if they so desire.)
Don’t confuse “politics” with reality. Politics is different, it is the “marriage of two people who don’t necessarily love each other,” whereas “reality, the Armenian Genocide” is real, it happened and there is no need for the Armenians to prove it.
As for what can Israel do? What contingency plans does Israel have? Well, you know the long arm of Israeli justice. If Turkey one day decides to hurt Armenia in any shape or form, they will be in for a big surprise.
The relationship between Israel and Turkey is complex. We know that Muslim Turks have no love for Jews. We are not stupid, if need be, we can even bring Erdogan to Israel to face trial in an Israeli court. All I can tell the Armenians is this: Israelis and Jews all over the world know the truth about the Genocide, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the notion that “Armenians might hijack our standing in the world as victims of Genocide,” that notion is ridiculous, since every man, woman and child on planet earth know that the Genocide happened first. You should understand that Israel, alongside the USA are watching every step this Islamist terrorist government is undertaking. Israel, can and will protect all and every single Jew in the world. I don’t need to brag or get arrogant here.
All I can say is this: ADL does not represent 15 million Jews worldwide. Besides, what they think about the Genocide is trivial and really don’t matter.
I have noticed lack of political acumen amongst a good part of Armenians posting here and on other forums. Some Armenians were violently attacking Kurds, for example, Kurds who were showing support for the Armenian cause. Some Armenians were attacking Jews, some even blaming Jews for the Genocide. Some, even went further and started showing anti-Jewish and pro-Aryan attitudes. Why??? Why fight 100 wars at the same time? Why can’t Armenians be shrewd and savvy politicians like the Turks?? It is just an unsolved mystery. Look at Islamist terrorist erdogan, he slammed and betrayed Israel on so many occasions, but then they turn around and call us “friends.”
You need to unite like us. The reason we have power, prestige and sow fear in the heart of our enemies, is because………you guessed it right, WE ARE UNITED. We help each other, every Israeli soldiers life is worth 100 trillion dollars, and we go all the way to save every captured soldier, sooner or later.
If Armenians only united, just once in your history, UNITE just once, is this too much to ask for? You are a small nation, around 2.7-3 million Armenians in Armenia, and it boggles the mind the divisions amongst all. It is scary. Imagine if Israelis were like you, the Arabs would have finished us off 100 years ago. UNITED WE ARE, so DIVIDED THEY BECOME.
I love the Armenian people, and I beg you to put your differences aside and UNITE, just once, bring honor and respect to your greatest king, Tigranes II, who so much loved and respected us Jews.
G-d bless Armenia.
Avi
Avetis
There is no anti-Armenian climate in Israel, however there is pro-Turkish political need. If you’re talking about LOVE between Israel and Turkey, there is none. If you think Israelis hate Armenians, they don’t. It is all politics my friends. It is time that Armenia established a University which is completely dedicated to prepare the future politicians of Armenia. There is so much emotions running around here and overcoming the need to act prudently.
Do what erdogan does, KILL YOUR ENEMY, and then GO KISS AND MAKE UP WITH THEM.
Politics never changed, learn from this Islamist terrorist erdogan.
I am just an ordinary citizen, Jewish with Armenian relatives. I have been following the news on Armenia, Turkey, and Israel only since 2006.
You might look for the answers to these questions yourself. I read the Turkish, Armenian and Israeli news online everyday.
I like to study people, as in psychology and sociology. I did read an interesting article by a Serb about political science. He said that laws come into being when people decide they should be. He also said that politicians are sometimes no different than criminals. Sometimes they protect the people from criminals, and sometimes they are the criminals hurting the people.
So maybe the govt. and the people sometimes differ. The govt. will have one policy, and the people may feel another way.
So are you asking what can be done to change the policy of governments? Or asking also, should we consider changing the public opinion of ordinary citizens (this is also known as propaganda, and can be used to turn public opinion, unfortunately, often in the wrong way). For instance, I think Israel is concerned that they are losing the public opinion because of their policy in Gaza. One article in Haaretz said, while we may maintain ties with the Turkish govt., it was more important to keep relations with ordinary Turks and fight antisemitism, which Israel may be losing. You can see, our governments’ policies re: Turkey cause a lot of resentment among the Armenians. I personally thought it was wrong for the ADL to get involved, and wrong for Gephardt and Hastert to take money from Turkey. I can only tell them so and I have.
I had to study this problem a lot to understand the history. I did notice the American Jewish Committee has issued a lot more pro-Armenian opinions in Haaretz, and even published an article here condemning the spitting upon Armenian clergy in Jerusalem. I don’t know if this pro-Armenian attitude came about because they are disgusted with Erdogan and his calling Gaza a genocide; and/or they are learning more about the Armenian genocide, which they didn’t know much about. I guess once you make them aware of a problem, they may act upon it. For instance, if you educate them about the nature of Turkish prejudice against minorities, and go to some of their annual meetings to talk and meet people, you may make some progress.
For instance, the last annual meeting of the American Jewish Committee included a speaker from Azerbaijan. I am sorry to say I did not attend . There are a lot of Jews in Azerbaijan, not only Turkey. So while there are some Jews from Armenia living in Israel, there are more from Azerbaijan and Turkey; however, even more from Russia. Half of Israel now comes from Arabic lands, where they were expelled, treated badly and lost their property. They too want reparations from these arab countries. I don’t know how this will affect public opinion in Israel, because you see Jews come from many countries in Israel. I don’t know enough about the public opinion going on there to help you. I have relatives living in Israel, but I am not familiar with what is going on other than what I read in the paper.
I don’t know if this post helped you at all.
You can meet with and/or write to Jewish organizations. I did mention that Ze’ev Elkin has an Armenia-Israel friendship group in Knesset. You can email him; he said last Apr. 24, his email box was empty, so people are not writing him to recognize the Armenian genocide and he was surprised. Where are your letters? You can write to Ze’ev and ask him your questions about Israel; go there and meet and talk to him. I am sure he will answer your questions, and he is not afraid to stand up to Turkey.
You said Obama has not made you happy with his policies. Of course, your groups are a lobby, voting and endorsing and trying to influence candidates, just as Jewish groups do. You can keep writing your representatives and voting for ones you like. Get involved with politics.
You might ask, what can the Armenian lobby do?
I don’t want to answer the last questions here now; my opinion is not an expert opinion; which you should seek out.
Hye, Jews have their reparations, which brought their Genocide towards a closure….
Yet, Jews, in Israel and in the USA do not allow the USA House and Senate give this same to the
genarations since the Turkish Genocide of the Armenian nation… Morally, as the Jews claim to be,
yet still interfere in another’s Genocide recognition efforts. Why? Manooshag
Manooshag: I agree, Armenians need to get their reparations and Germany did make reparations to the Jews.
Did you know that there are other Jews, who came from the arab countries (many to Israel), who were expelled, property taken from them, and they did not get reparations. When Israel became a nation, the arab countries, with whom they lived together as friends for thousands of years, just threw them out.
I want to ask Ferhat, in Kurdistan: there are only 10 Jews left in Iraq. Chalabi saved some ancient Jewish manuscripts, but wants them back. Will they save and love them the way we do? Can we keep them? The Iraqis are building a mosque over an ancient Jewish monument to the Prophet Ezekiel, I believe, and the fundamentalists are destroying the ancient Jewish monuments in Iraq. I read stories everyday about an Iraqi Jew who was mentally damaged and lives in a small room in Israel, with no hope of reparations from Iraq. So we are dealing in reparations from arab and muslim countries, who are not European.
Jews were expelled from Libya and all their property confiscated. They are trying to deal with Kadafi, a dictator, to get some things back. So the problem is that after arab nationalism, Turkish nationalism, dealing with totalitarian countries, what can you get back?
Jews went to Turkey, Morocco, Tunisia to escape the Inquisition. Some of those countries used the Jews as intermediaries; today these muslim countries have educated people and don’t need intermediaries. So although some Jews may live there today, they are no longer intermediaries.
Can the Jews expelled from arab countries even hope to get reparations back? I will work for them.
The Armenians, it seems, are the victims of real politik. What would happen if Obama did use the word “genocide” and not veto the genocide bill? Maybe nothing. So it is up to you to convince him. President Reagan almost passed it; so maybe all the arguments being spinned are not true; and passing the bill won’t hurt our ties with Turkey. It is a matter of lobbying for this bill and getting your way; and working with Jewish groups. If you read a lot of these forums, you will see you have a lot of Jewish supporters, but policy is in the hands of the government. So lobbying the government is the problem; you can see Turkey has a lobby (and I did not think ADL should have been a part of it; and many Jews have criticized them).
Freedom of speech means you can petition the govt. If politicians do things because they are getting money, but not out of moral conviction, that is doubly wrong. Gephardt was paid a million dollars a year; Hastert took $500,000 for the Republican Party from Turkey. I wouldn’t vote for these two guys, but they are not even part of the political scene today. Abe Foxman made his own problems up there in Massachusetts; he doesn’t speak for all of us (you have to ask Foxman why he is doing what he is doing).
Well said Genocide Denial.
When people, Kurds, good Turks and Jews offer their hand of friendship, please accept the offer, instead of attacking and humiliating them . How will Armenia build friendship with different peoples if everytime a Jew or a Kurd or a good Turk say something, they are attacked. I believe it was Ferhat who said that “you alone cannot win this battle, we need to be united, Jew, Armenian, Kurds and Turks who had it with their denialist government.
Listen, Azerbaijan invests 1-10 million a year buying lobbyists. Armenia(ians) do nothing. Can Armenia(ians) spare $200,000 hiring one lobbying group in Washington? Of course you can. I am not ashamed to say that Israel too has its lobbyists. You need an American firm to lobby for Armenia. Don’t sit there and complain. And here in Israel, you have friends in the Knesset, but Armenians are oblivious to the situation here, no one contacts your friends in the Israeli Knesset. Come on, wake up and start to work. All I can do is vote for a Knesset member who knows and wants to propagate the truth about the Armenian Genocide. The rest is up to you, you are wasting your friendship with Israeli Knesset members.
Listen, I honestly don’t give a horses a– about ADLs/AIPACs attitude towards the Genocide, they don’t represent all Jews. Some in there are paid by the Turkish government (remember the words: Paid, Bought, Hired etc etc). It is high time Armenians wake up and face reality. If you don’t do your homework, you fail, it’s that simple.
Why is it hard to convince Armenians to play politics (dirty or not) and start hiring Washington lobbyists. Gephardt and Hastert will sell their wives, daughters and mothers for the almighty dollar. If they can be bought, trust me there are 100 waiting to be hired(bribed, paid) and they will do the job. Even if you pay Gephardt $500,000 now, the guy has no morals and he will fast fall into the Armenian side…just like that.
OK please don’t attack me for being brutally honest. remember Armenia(ians) lack political savvy and I understand the reasons( a new nation, young democracy etc etc), but start doing what Turkey does today, and you will gain tons of friends tomorrow.
I love Armenians, I feel their pain and honestlyam doing my best to teach my friends about your people. But stand up like one man, you cannot have a strong country while divided. Do what your great King Tigranes II did. He got tired of Armenian Nagharars petty squabbles and swiftly eliminated them, and THEN Armenia became strong and prospered. What Armenia needs is a new Tigranes II to unite Armenians.
I love Armenia and Armenians.
Avi
PS: Before I forget, Abe Foxman is paid, read it here, paid by the Turkish government in millions of dollars. This guy has no moral or ethical standards. Now is the time that you too, Armenians do the same. You can buy people too, everyone is for sale, trust me. This unfortunately is world business as usual.
Look, my Armenian friend Vazken keeps glorifying my Jewish people, that how united we are, how powerful we are, that no one messes with Israel…He is absolutelyright. How about Armenia and Armenians, when will you be united like a strong oak tree? When?
Manooshag
Oh my G-d, I wished you understood what propels Israel and the ADL and the AIPAC to vote for Turkey…it is a complex and very intricately woven relationship. It will end soon, but for now, instead of attacking Israel, try to make friends with Israelis and Jews worldwide. Look what erdogan is doing: Humiliating Israel, then kissing up to us, then going to a Muslim country and humiliating us again, then calling our Ehud Barak and apologizing…Smart, very smart. Learn from them, please learn from them.
Trust me dear Armenians, it is not hard to build a rock solid friendship with Israel and world Jewery. You see how fast Armenians fell for this ridiculous “Jewish complicity in the Genocide” garbage? And who told Armenians about this? None other than Turks. Are you telling me that everything happening in this world is the “insider job of the Jew?” The only strategic concern of world Jewery and Israel is the “Safety of every single Jew whether living in Israel or abroad, period.”
Other than that, what you hear from Turks is total rubbish. It was the Turks who committed the Genocide, period. For Turks, there are Jews hiding in their Turkish delight sweets. During WWII, Himmler reported that a Field marshal, and 15 high ranking generals were of Jewish decent, plus about 200 blond, blue eyed Jews who saved their skin by serving in the SS death troops. Now, are you going to tell me that the murder of 6 million Jews was the result of these Jews who served Hitler? OK, if a a Islamized Jew served in the Ottoman government, does that mean that the :JEWS DID IT?” These are all small tricks done by the Turk to confuse Armenians worldwide, its like “taking the monkey from their back, and throwing it on our.” Don’t fall under the category of peoples who erroneously think that there is a Jewish conspiracy everywhere in the world. Let us be real.
G-d bless Armenia
Avi
Well, well, well…I see that once again my posts have not been posted and have beed deleted! To the members of the editorial board, let me ask you all a very simple question…How would you like it if you took the time and effort to compose an informative, well thought out post, without any vulgarity, expressing your sincere opinion and trying to share it with others, and then some editorial board comes along and deletes your work in a brazzen show of censorship? I doubt if you’d be very estatic! It’s sad really, to see just how insecure you all are on that board. It’s hard to picture people who are so worried about the possibility of the truth coming forth that they’d stoop so low journalistically to resort to total censorship! I can guarntee that if you were to post something on a Turkish site, your post would be up and remain there for however long the site is up and running. There won’t be any blatent censorship as is found on this site! Oh well.
Robert (Mehmet, Alpaslan, Kemal whatever your real name is), you are DEAD WRONG.
I have tried to go on turkish webs and talk about the plight of my Kurdish people, and for some “out of this world” reasons, most of my posts were deleted, because I was asking, quite respectfully, the illegal occupation of my country.
What you wrote here Kemal, was a blatant lie my friend.
Sorry, gone are the days when you manipulated everyone with lies and innuendos mixed with killings and Genocides.
Ferhat
Hye, my question stands – still: Why do Jews in USA and Israel interfere with another nation, in the USA Congress, the House of Representatives and the Senate? Armenians, who suffered the first Genocide of the 20th century – whose perpetrator Turks
were not brought to justice – yet and the Jewish Genocide and many more Genocides followed….
these shall never have happened if the guilty Ottoman Turk their subsequent leaderships were brought to face their guilt for the crime of Genocide… As I see it, morally, the Jews shall have been with the Armenians rather than played all the games with a Turkey. But that was morally…
Someone asked what leverage Israel has over Turkey? The truth is that as an individual country Israel is more powerful than Turkey, but Israel has few allies other than the U.S, and even within the U.S there are pockets of people who hate Israel because supporting Israel is a redflag for many Muslims (whose wrath some justifiably will do anything to avoid). In reality, most Jews don’t feel much leverage, and I don’t say this to be self-pitying, but the international climate isn’t very encouraging. But right is right. The Armenian Genocide was a disaster and a horrific crime against humanity. I’d be happy to have people hate us if we always took the moral stance, but given the ADL’s position, it certainly feels like we are bending over backwards to be allies with a powerful country whose people hate our guts and are morally bankrupt to start. And in the process the ADL is doing something very immoral by trying to placate them (this is of first and foremost importance); any country worth forming an alliance with would have no issue with transparency about their history.
I understand some of the negative comments, as I would have trouble keeping my cool as well, but remember that political groups, particularly ones run by zealots such as Abe Foxman are only self-serving. He probably can’t sleep at night without thinking about who he’s going to write an angry letter to or who he’s going to try to be nice to for us to be more popular. Peace and shalom!
BTW there is a great need for more scholarship on the Armenian Genocide, including books and film; and nobody understands the significance of this forgotten history better than the Armenians.
Robert, any denial of the Armenian genocide is highly offensive to Armenians — and in fact is more offensive than “vulgarity.” I suspect there was some genocide denial in your post…was there?
Just a minute, Robert: you claim, (I quote you) “I can guarntee that if you were to post something on a Turkish site, your post would be up and remain there for however long the site is up and running. There won’t be any blatent censorship as is found on this site!” (end quote)
Go on the internet and find out how many web sites it is claimed Turkey has shut down completely. There is no point in talking about (quote) “however long the site is up and running,” (end quote) if the site is not up and running at all!
How many Turkish authors have been charged under article 301 for “insulting Turkishness”? Ever heard of Orhan Pamuk? Heard of Elif Shafak?
How many Turkish intellectuals have been shut up when using the big G word as it relates to the Armenian Genocide?
Have you ever heard of Hrant Dink?
Welcome to the real world.
well I guess the ADL finally has seen what bitter fruits lying with the dark side can bring their little country.