At 8 p.m. on July 13, television viewers in Turkey who tune in to watch Haberturk TV station’s “Teke Tek” (“One to One”) debate show will instead see a program prepared by the Turkish state’s television and radio monitoring agency, the RTUK.
Nisanian, center, and Halacoglu, right, in heated debate.
Teke Tek was recently penalized by the RTUK for comments made by Sevan Nisanyan on the topic of the Armenian Genocide. The episode in question aired on March 9, less than a week after the U.S. House Foreign Affairs Committee passed the Armenian Genocide Resolution.
Teke Tek is a debate program hosted and moderated by Fatih Altayli. The two guests on the March 9 episode were Yusuf Halacoglu, the former president of the Turkish Institute of History and a notorious genocide denier, and Sevan Nisanyan, an Armenian-Turkish linguist, writer, and lecturer, and columnist for the Turkish daily Taraf and Armenian Agos newspapers. Nisanyan recently published a book titled The Country that Forgets Its Name, a study on around 30,000 place names in Turkey and their Turkification.
During the March 9 debate, Nisanyan said, “Terrible events happened in 1915. A whole society who had been living here for thousands of years was expelled from their home country and was subjected to tyranny and injustice. … The state policies in Turkey say that this is a lie and that they do not care about our feelings. I think these policies have softened a little throughout the past two to three years. At least, they stepped back from completely ignoring it. But when we look at recent speeches of the government, we see very clearly that the basic mentality has not changed.”
Nisanyan’s comments were, according to the RTUK, overly critical and “humiliated the Republic of Turkey.” The RTUK decision to fine the station and cancel the July 13 showing of Teke Tek was made on June 15 (June 16 by some accounts) and Haberturk was informed of it on June 21. The notification of the punishment was signed by Arslan Narin, the RTUK’s legal advisor.
According to the Turkish bianet.org, which monitors and covers media freedom issues in the country, the July 13th program by the RTUK will be preceded by an announcement and explanation of Teke Tek’s suspension, along with the display—at 10-minute intervals—of the official laws that have been broken.
The RTUK cited Article 4(i) of Law No. 3984 and No. 4756, which forbid broadcasters to “exceed the limits of criticism and insult an institution,” and which, according to Reporters Without Borders (RSF), is worded in such a vague manner that it allows officials to draw “subjective—usually ultraconservative—interpretation that prevents Turkish society from tackling vital issues.”
Habeturk has the right to appeal the case with the Administrative Court.
Nisanyan responds
The Armenian Weekly asked Nisanyan to share his reaction to the RTUK’s decision. “The Turkish Old Guard is desperate,” he said. “There is whole regiment of mostly elderly apparatchiks who are simply shocked by the changes taking place in the country, and they are reacting in mostly incoherent and irrational ways.”
“The program I took part in would be simply unimaginable in this country two years ago. Now most people, especially of the younger generation, find it perfectly acceptable and interesting, while the Old Guard rants and raves and foams at the mouth. One cannot blame them. Their world is collapsing around them.”
Nisanyan said he didn’t have any hesitation when accepting to be on the show. “I only regret I wasn’t as sharp and combative as I could be on that program. I would probably take a stronger stand if I were invited again,” he said.
Haberturk responds
On Thurs., June 24, Haberturk, which also publishes its own newspaper, responded to the punishment in an article. The decision, it said, shows that the RTUK thinks the moderator should disprove the ideas presented by his/her guests, even during intellectual discussions, and sees the failure to do so as a breach of the principles of publication.
The article also stated that the RTUK is banning the airing of the program because of Nisanyan, who is not a representative of the Armenian lobby and is a Turkish citizen, and a known figure whose views have been published in the books he has authored.
Over 150 readers commented on the article. One disgruntled reader wrote, “This is what AKP’s democracy is all about! Let everyone shut up and only we are going to talk! You only listen and give us your votes.” Another wrote, “I believe the RTUK should make a decision to remove from the map the countries that accept the Armenian position.” While another wrote, “I had watched this program. Nisanyan spoke in such a ridiculous way that I lost my mind. I kiss the hands of Yusuf Hodja. There wasn’t anything worth discussing because [Nisanyan] was conveying ideas that were entirely from a fantasy land. But Yusuf Hodja was giving the proper responses.”
Some simply wrote, “Shame on the RTUK,” and some expressed the view that if Nisanyan was saying anything wrong, there were people on the panel to respond to him, and that there was no need for such steps to be taken by the RTUK.
Reporters Without Borders condemns punishment
In a June 29 statement, Reporters Without Borders condemned the RTUK’s decision, stating that “[it] regards this disproportionate punishment as censorship pure and simple, and calls on the RTUK to rescind the decision.” Reporters Without Borders said it “regret[s] that a regulatory body should assume it has the right to decide the terms in which an historical event can be discussed.”
About RTUK
The RTUK was founded in 1994 to monitor and regulate television and radio broadcasts. The agency, which is headquartered in Ankara, has nine members who are elected by the Grand National Assembly of Turkey. It also has local offices in Istanbul, Izmir, Adana, Diyarbakir, and Van. Since its establishment, the agency has been responsible for closing down stations that have allegedly aired separatist propaganda.
A new law has also placed the internet under the watch of the RTUK. Service providers, websites, and users now fear tighter control and increased reprisals.
Media censorship in Turkey
In recent reports,* Turkey has been called a relentless suppressor of freedom of speech and one of the worst offenders of cyber censorship, along with Iran, North Korea, and at times China. Retaliations against broadcasters, journalists, and writers—from the authorities, individuals or groups—are also frequent in Turkey. In a 2010 report, Reporters Without Borders said there is a special hotline for reporting forbidden online material, and that between October 2008 and May 2009, the number of calls rose from 25,000 to 80,000.
Columnist and poet Ataol Behramoglu is facing a possible sentence and fine of 20,000 lira (~12,576 USD) in damages to Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan for criticizing the Justice and Development Party (AKP) during a program on CNN Turk on Jan. 2. On June 9, the Ankara court rejected Behramoglu’s lawyer’s argument that since the comments were made during a debate show as a response to the question “Are we going towards democracy or dictatorship?” they were protected under the right to free expression.
The latest eyebrow raiser is Turkey’s ban on some Google pages for the company’s refusal to remove clips off the video-sharing website YouTube.com, which is owned by Google, Inc. Some of the offending clips shed an unfavorable light on Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, who is viewed as the father of modern-day Turkey. In 2008, authorities in Turkey banned access to YouTube and in June 2010, they blocked access to Google pages that shared the same IP addresses as YouTube. Google offered to block the “offensive” YouTube clips in Turkey, but this was rejected by Turkish authorities who demanded their complete removal from the site. Turkey has also accused the company of registering in Turkey and paying local taxes.
Meanwhile, in May 2010, under Articles 314-3 of the criminal code and Article 7-2 of the anti-terrorist law, authorities convicted the editor of Turkey’s only Kurdish daily newspaper, Vedat Kursun, giving him a sentence of 166.5 years in prison for 103 counts of spreading terrorist propaganda for the Kurdish Workers’ Party (PKK). Most recently, the newspaper had published an article in which it referred to the PKK’s jailed leader, Abdullah Ocalan, as “the Kurdish people’s leader.” Ozan Kilinc, who took over as editor after Kursun, was himself sentenced to 21 years and 3 months in prison on Feb. 10.
The weekly Turkish-Armenian newspaper Agos has faced both brutality and harassment. In 2007, its editor, Hrant Dink, was fatally shot by a 17-year-old Turkish nationalist extremist.
Dink had been prosecuted three times for “insulting Turkishness” and received numerous death threats. In February 2010, the newspaper’s website was hacked, reportedly by individuals who admired Dink’s killer.
Endnote:
*Richard Howitt, a British member of the European Parliament and advocate of Turkey’s European Union membership, has warned Turkey that it cannot be considered as a serious candidate to the EU as long as the internet continues to be censored in the country. Howitt said the ban puts “the country alongside Iran, North Korea, and Vietnam as one of the world’s worst offenders for cyber censorship,” as reported by the Associated Press. Boston’s national public radio station, WBUR, noted that the censorship was being likened to ones imposed in Iran and at times China.
Bedrosyan: Searching for Lost Armenian Churches and Schools in Turkey (1,391)
Erdogan ‘Apologizes’ for Dersim Killings, Insults Diaspora (548)
Mouradian: Voir Ani et Mourir: Dispatches from Turkey (Part V) (518)
Memik
July 12, 2010
mjm,
I see that there is a certain dislike among some Armenians for the word “Anatolian” when refering to Ottoman Armenians or “Western Armenia”. I used the word merely to avoid repetition. Also, as you may know, the word comes from ancient Greek, it should mean something like “towards sunrise” or “where the sun rises”. I always thought the wide use of a Greek word by such a strongly nationalist people like Turks to geographically designate their country was a bit interesting, but for the sake of argument, so be it; “Armenians of Asia Minor” then.
Secondly, I really don’t want to dwell into this “explosive” issue but since you asked: I’d say Armenian-Turkish reconciliation is connected to Armenian-Azeri one in a sense that is a bit different from the official Turkish line. The realization of what I suggested requires a set of carefully planned steps by the Turkish government, possibly in close cooperation with Armenia. This would be a historical initiative that can happen only when some important conditions are ready. Although some commentators in these pages like to view Turkey as not being properly democratic (or sometimes not being democratic at all) in fact, there is functioning political pluralism (i.e. free elections can change government). That is why no democratically accountable government in Turkey can provide financial and political support for returning Armenians while there are around a million Azeri refugees (some living in Turkey). Extension of citizenship (or legislating some form of “right to return” law) and issuing an “official” apology seem to me as the easier part of the equation (when responding Boyajian I assumed citizenship would be offered following an already existing apology). On the other hand, Armenians themselves would find it hard to return while animousity against themselves is constantly fed by the Karabagh issue. Also, Turkey cannot easily normalize ties with Armenia at the expense of Azerbaijan because of cultural and economic ties with that country. Any political party that treats Azerbaijan merely as a “third country” would be vulnerable to nationalist agitation. I wish these were not so but these are the facts as I see them. In all, I mentioned the Karabagh issue only because I think the resolution of which will serve to relax nerves in Turkey, so as to make the return easier for both people.
Finally mjm, I can see the collapse of mighty Soviet empire and strong Kurdish separatism gives you hope about the disintegration of Turkey. However, unlike USSR, Turkey is not made up of national components with different cultural policies, it has a vibrant economy very much integrated with global markets and a strong national identity (excluding the majority of Kurds). Also I wouldn’t invest much hope in “pseudo-Armenians”, no matter how much their numbers might be, expecting a collective catharsis and mobilization seems unrealistic. Would you say, the lifting of state pressure on the expression of cultural identities would make Kurds, Lazs, pseudo-Armenians, non-Muslims and other groups attempt to break away or love Turkish state the more because of treating them properly? Today, even the MPs of pro-Kurdish political party express their intention for unity and contributing to the well-being of Turkey. Don’t get me wrong, I do not ignore the possibility of a bloody civil war in Turkey between Kurds and Turks. But it depends on the ability of the country to re-define its basis of political association, or as some as these days, a “new social contract”. My whole point is this: Armenians have much to gain from the success of this new basis of citizenship. If they want their culture to re-flourish in their ancient homeland, instead of relying on a future which is likely to bring nothing but bloodshed, they should act constructively and engage in the developments in Turkey.
gayane
July 12, 2010
Memik… i am sorry but your suggestion of giving citizenship and this and that does not sit well with me..
especially if you are connecting Azerbajian when they should be banned from this equation…. Armenia should not and WILL NOT give Artsagh back to blood thirsty Azeris.. we have shed too much blood to get back the lands that belonged to us.. note: Those lands WERE and will remain ours…
I understand you are trying to show genuine interest in making things right for both parties but like many of my friends commented here, until Turkey gets its act together and does the right thing, Armenians will never be ok with the idea of living together.. personally i would NEVER EVER want to do that… no disrespect to you or your Turkish citizens…
Mjm… i agree with you 100%…
Thank you
Gayane
Boyajian
July 13, 2010
Memik, you comment on the “deep lying guilt” that some Turks feel that is behind the use of their own dead for political propaganda. I would also add the underlying sense of insecurity that is behind the over-exaggerated national pride that keeps Turkey from engaging in honest self-appraisal and allows her to punish her own citizens for “crimes against Turkishness.” This is probably due to the not so deep lying awareness that much of what Turkey is, was built on the backs of subject people plus the ambiguous nature of “who is a Turk?” Turks mixed extensively with her subjects and are an amalgam of all the people they have oppressed over the years of Ottoman domination. What a fertile field for internal conflict!
You are being very honest and open here, which I appreciate. I don’t want to offend you, but I disagree with your plan for reconciliation. I understand why you would be reluctant to consider land transfer, but I don’t think offering citizenship to the descendants of genocide victims and survivors is sufficient. Turkey inflicted indescribable, monumental harm to the Armenian people, to the Armenian nation, and for 95 years Turkey has benefited from the wealth and property she stole from them. If you allow yourself to extrapolate and imagine the impact this had on the Armenian nation and her potential to contribute to the world, you will begin to see that the crime committed was a crime against all mankind. Had the Armenians of Asia Minor been left unmolested, one can only imagine the contributions they would have made in the sciences, arts, literature, industry etc., not to mention the population growth that would have fostered the formation of vibrant cities and strong economies. This isn’t only about money. This is about recognizing the value of a human life, of a cultural heritage and the place of a people in the world. I’m sorry, but to suggest that Armenians could come back to Asia Minor as co-citizens with those who have not yet realized the pathological racism inherent in their society is untenable. I recognize you envision a very different, much reformed Turkey to make your plan work. I agree, a very different Turkey, indeed.
Boyajian
July 13, 2010
Memik, it is hard for an Armenian like myself to understand why Turks insist on tying the Armenian-Turkish reconciliation together with the Armenian-Azerbaijani reconciliation. You must realize it smacks of Turks binding together to strong arm and influence Armenian national policy. And you must also realize the knee-jerk rejection this would evoke in a people who have no reason to trust Turkish intentions. Sorry. But I do understand that you seem to be suggesting this as a negotiating strategy to achieve the peace that we all desire.
Memik
July 13, 2010
Gayane & Boyajian: no offence taken, thank you for the respectful way you deliver your arguments. Actually, we Turks should think twice before reciprocating offensive generalizations made by some Armenians (‘barbarian’, ‘uncivilized’, ‘mongoloid’ etc.) towards us, since usually these derive from deep lying frustrations because the due of what happened in the past is not given by Turkey.
As we go into detail about current problems without first questioning our own perspective, the prospect of fair reconciliation for these problems diminish. How can we deal with disagreements that are bourn out of incompatible values and interests? The “liberal” way of tackling these is by trying to distance ourselves from our own (mostly prescribed) identities or situated selves. The crucial thing is whether if we can say “I am a human being first, then comes my national, ethnic, religious identity”. I am not suggesting that we try to spread this morality throught the world, but that true morality consists in being able to offer judgments on the sole and fundamental basis which brings everyone in this planet together, that is “humanity”. In the same way, I think my Turkish patriotism will find much stronger footing if I can feel my institutions and culture contribute to universal-human betterment.
So Gayane, although I think that Azeris should take confidence building steps in Karabagh/Artsakh (share water with Armenian farmers, backout snipers etc) and refrain from a war that most military analysts say cannot be won, it is a matter of human right for innocent Azeris to return with their security guaranteed. This is not to shift the burden on Armenian shoulders (on the contrary I think everything starts with confidence building Azeri steps). What I’m trying to say is if we put humanity first, we can’t say “but they rebelled/stabbed us in the back” just as “but we also have refugees”. These are sad attempts to withold our true responsibility, and the identity of the person saying this is not important. It is as if strange twists of fate puts us in the position of our perceived enemy in order to teach us how to overcome our weaknesses and develop our moral thinking. The mere fact about the similarities between Turkish position in Cyprus and Armenian position in Karabagh reminds me that our destinies are inadvertently bound together: we will never find justice ourselves before contributing to the justice of other…
Besides, Gayane, I never implied that Armenians give Artsakh back to the Azeris. But the premises of independent morality requires that Armenians live together with Azeris; just as it require Turks to allow Armenians back.
Boyajian: the two issues may be conceptually independent, I mentioned earlier that the sole reason I included the Karabagh issue was the positive contributions it can make for a governement policy for the return of Armenians to Turkey. It was ONLY to be able respond to an angry Turk or Kurd who might say “we’re living in poverty but you not only allow those people to settle among us but also positively discriminate them, a people whose government not only have ethnically cleansed Armenia and Karabagh of our ‘brothers’ but also invaded Azerbaijan” by saying “listen, by allowing back the Azeri refugees, returning invaded territories and setting a joint-state in Karabagh, they have made huge sacrifices. Now we are morally obliged to allow them back and support them”.
Boyajian your expansion of what I wrote about “deep lying guilt” seems fair: a sense of insecurity on behalf of Turkish state feeds from the shaky pillars of Turkish identity. Indeed, Anatolia or Asia Minor was the worst place for nation-state to be experimented in this way. I find ethnic heterogeneity of Turkey as an asset, I myself have Turkmen, Albanian, Greek, Jewish, Circassian and possibly Slavic blood. But if we return to the “land issue”, highlighting this against Turkey will achieve nothing but reinforcing the “underlying sense of insecurity” you mentioned, and which is found in every echelon of Turkish state. Sad to say but, I know no other state on earth that can act so violently even against its own citizens when felt threatened. Therefore I don’t see a choice for Armenians between actively involving in the betterment of Turkey or waiting passively for its demise. What I referred to as the “new social contract” earlier, is a necessary component for background conditions that’d allow Armenians to return. It includes a de-ethnicized conception of Turkish citizenship. Some say it is already so by quoting Ataturk: “Happy is the one who calls himself a Turk”. True, underlying understanding here is that ‘Turkishness’ is based on sharing public culture, not blood. Yet still, ethnic connotations of ‘Turkishness’ remain in school curricula etc.
There might still be some Armenians entitled to return but do not relinquish their demand for “restitution of land”. Assuming Turkey will achieve a much higher standard of democracy soon and that they take “first-come-served-first” as the sole basis for settling territorial disputes; they’d have to answer some difficult questions about why shouldn’t American Indians be carved out a sovereign state from the US & Canada…
mjm
July 13, 2010
Memik,
Armenians, and as shown by the recent reaction with regard to the Turkish-Armenian protocols, the major power centers and regional organizations do not see any connection between two divergently different issues: Turkish-Armenian reconciliation based on Turkey’s acceptance of guilt and resolution of the Artsakh Armenian-Azerbaijan issue. In fact, we think that the latter is being used to delay rapprochement between the Turks and the Armenians and to delay justice for 1.5 million savagely massacred innocent people. No one knows the Turks better than the Armenians, Memik. From your standpoint, I can understand it when you say that ‘this [a set of carefully planned steps for the resolution of an Artsakh-Azerbaijan issue] would be a historical initiative that can happen only when some important conditions are ready,’ however, from the standpoint of the Armenians no set of carefully planned steps for the Armenian-Turkish rapprochement can be considered until and unless the Turkish state offers an official apology for wiping out 1.5 million ethnic Armenians in the most barbaric ways, forcibly deporting half a million of others, stealing their properties, bank accounts and insurance indemnities, desecrating their educational centers, community centers, churches, monasteries, pastures, ancient architectural monuments, in short: wiping out the whole civilization, one of the most ancient civilizations inhabiting the earth.
First things first, Memik. Not only given the magnitude of crime, but also the chronology of crime. No nation of Azerbaijan ever existed in history up until 1918, and Artsakh was given to them by Stalin in 1921 that initiated the problem, but Ottoman Armenians have already been mass murdered in 1915 by the Turks. It’d be more honest of you if you considered ‘a set of carefully planned steps’ for the resolution of both, however unrelated, issues on the chronology of equally unrelated events: the deliberate annihilation of a particular ethnic group, a genocide, by the Ottoman Turks, being the first and the ugliest. And I strongly disagree that for the Turks ‘issuing an official apology seems to be the easier part of the equation.’ On the contrary, I think Turks understand too well that an apology for committing genocide is the hardest part. This could be the reason why you emphasize re-settlement of the Armenians in their ancestral lands and the resolution of the Artsakh-Azerbaijan conflict, because these measures would be less burdensome than bearing legal responsibility for committing a crime against humanity. You seem to be more concerned about a million of Azerbaijani refugees as a result of an aggression that Azerbaijan unleashed against the Armenians of Artsakh in the early 1990s, but I’m concerned about the millions of Armenians slaughtered in cold blood as a result of genocidal pan-Turkic policies of the CUP that happened earlier and that bear no or little impact on what happened between the Armenians of Artsakh and the Azeries. If ‘Turkey cannot easily normalize ties with Armenia at the expense of Azerbaijan because of cultural and economic ties with that country’ then why can’t you understand that Armenia, too, cannot easily normalize ties with Azerbaijan at the expense of Artsakh because of Artsakh Armenians being a part of one nation? From our perspective, we don’t have to be preoccupied with the resolution of Artsakh issue so it ‘will serve to relax nerves in Turkey,’ because (1)the two issues are different in essence and are thus unrelated; (2)Armenian animosity towards the Turkish state has reasons unrelated to the Artsakh problem; and (3)Turkish government would need to realize that only clearing itself from disgrace would serve to relax nerves in Turkey.
My readings into the human development reports and various accounts of the human rights organizations suggest that you might also misinterpret the level of openness and democratic values in the Turkish society. Your criteria for functioning political pluralism (i.e. free elections can change government) in Turkey are unconvincing, I’m afraid. Even in a newly-independent post-Soviet nation of Armenia that yet struggles to establish functioning political pluralism elections can change government IF they’re free. But the world knows how heavily the Turkish military influences the outcome of these elections. The world also knows how many undemocratic, reactionary laws exist in your country, Article 301 of the Penal Code being the most notorious of them.
About the disintegration of Turkey, it’s not a hope, it’s my prognosis, maybe hypothetical as of now. I’m well aware, believe me, that unlike the USSR Turkey is not made up of national components with different cultural policies. But you’re gravely mistaken, my friend, if you hope that the country has ‘a strong national identity.’ From what we see, it obviously does not because the Turkish nation is an amalgamation of various nobler and more ancient nations that the Turks have conquered and interbred with throughout the centuries. Kurds are already a distinct national group, and a very strong group in terms of their numbers and resolve. It may for now seem unrealistic to expect a collective catharsis and mobilization of the Kurds, but no one knows what may happen if the Kurds get an autonomous or even a state formation in Iraq. As for other oppressed ethnic groups, I challenge you to press your government (and I understand you can do it given your belief in a ‘functioning political pluralism’ in Turkey) to lift the provisions of the Article 301 of the Penal Code, and just watch how many millions of people would reveal their non-Turkic, non-Muslim identity.
There are several major flaws in the new basis of citizenship that you’re proposing and that you think the Armenians have ‘much to gain’ from the success of it. First, you didn’t lay out the most important prerequisite for the ‘success’ of this new plan in which Armenians would have ‘much to gain’: repentance and official apology from the Turkish state for the crime of genocide they committed against the Armenians. Second, offering citizenship to the descendants of genocide victims and survivors, the people who lived and developed state formations and high civilization on their ancestral lands for millennia before being annihilated, is clearly insufficient. Financial reparations and land restitution can only be considered as an adequate compensation for exterminating a race. And third, for Armenians to live as co-citizens with those who still perceive themselves as a dominant ethnic and religious group, a former imperial master, and have yet to develop—if they can—high mindedness and tolerance for other nations, cultures, religions, and civilizations, is highly idealistic, indeed.
mjm
July 13, 2010
Memik,
If you think that for Armenians to ‘wait passively for [Turkey’s] demise’ is idealistic, don’t you think that ‘assuming Turkey will achieve a much higher standard of democracy’ is even more idealistic, if not unattainable?
mjm
July 13, 2010
Memik,
If you think that for Armenians to ‘wait passively for [Turkey’s] demise’ is idealistic, don’t you think that ‘assuming Turkey will achieve a much higher standard of democracy’ is even more idealistic, if not unattainable?
By the way, Memik, while many tend to think that the Soviet Union collapsed because it was made up of national components, it is not a universally accepted substantiation. Scholars still disagree on the causes of collapse. What most of them agree upon is that it was a scope of causes—economic, systemic, political, and even conspiratorial—not just the national question that led to the collapse. In fact, the national question has been intentionally triggered, as in the case of Nagorno-Karabakh. Not to say that the problem didn’t exist beginning the 1920s but that it was largely dormant and repressed afterwards, but intentionally resurrected by some forces in the late 1980s.
What I mean to say is that no one ever can say for sure what particular cause can generate the disintegration of a state. Would you say that the national question only dissolved the Ottoman empire? I hope not…
mjm
July 13, 2010
And a follow-up question to you, Memik. Why did the Turks create the TRNC after the invasion of a sovereign state of Cyprus instead of attempting to work out a plan with the Greek Cypriot government for extending Cypriot citizenship to the Turks? Might you know?
Ani
July 13, 2010
While it is interesting to read about ideas of Armenians moving back to what is now Eastern Turkey and living happily ever after, the reality is that Armenians currently living in Istanbul (as Turkish citizens) cannot even safeguard properties of their foundations. The act of these expropriations have had the ultimate effect of strangling the Armenian churches, schools etc., which I would suggest was the intention all along.
Although a law was passed to return some of these properties, the matter is now under appeal by the CHP. The article below is very interesting in this regard. And isn’t it interesting that the current leader of CHP links it to the Genocide and reparations even though the issue relates to actions taken during the Republican era?
http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=213440
Boyajian
July 13, 2010
Sorry, Memik, Armenians don’t want to return to be citizens of Turkey. They want to return to their home on the Armenian Plateau with the right of self-determination and secure borders. I know this sounds far-fetched. Maybe it is, but it is the right solution for Armenians who have no reason to believe that Turks are ready to live as equal citizens and not the master race. And Azerbaijan has as much right to Karabagh as I have to my neighbor’s yard. My children have played in it for many years and feel at home in it, but that does not make it mine. Turkey wants to settle this matter by keeping itself in the one-up position and Armenian in the one-down position, without making a full apology, without making appropriate land reparations and without recognizing that Karabaghtsis defended themselves against Azeri aggression and won what was rightfully theirs to begin with. Turkey has yet to show herself to be interested in equitable, good faith negotiations. Unfortunately, few Turks are as open-minded as you appear to be.
Memik
July 13, 2010
Mjm, you wrote:
“You seem to be more concerned about a million of Azerbaijani refugees as a result of an aggression that Azerbaijan unleashed against the Armenians of Artsakh in the early 1990s, but I’m concerned about the millions of Armenians slaughtered in cold blood as a result of genocidal pan-Turkic policies of the CUP…”
I had to mention Azeri refugees more than once in order to emphasize a non-selective (moral) approach for a fair resolution between Turks and Armenians at large. It is not because I value Azeri refugees over Armenian lives lost earlier in 20th century.
Also: “If ‘Turkey cannot easily normalize ties with Armenia at the expense of Azerbaijan because of cultural and economic ties with that country’ then why can’t you understand that Armenia, too, cannot easily normalize ties with Azerbaijan at the expense of Artsakh because of Artsakh Armenians being a part of one nation?”
I was trying to show just as Republic of Armenia has a ‘special’ relationship with Karabagh, so has Turkey with Azerbaijan. Unless you conceive the restoration of Azeri territory, return of refugees and setting up a multi-ethnic de facto sovereign entity there in terms of the abandonment of Karabagh Armenians, nowhere I implied a need for compromising their interests.
As for democracy in Turkey: the current (1982) Constitution has nothing to defend. Although the upcoming constitutional referandum (12th September 2010) falls short of meeting the democratic standards that the country deserves, it still brings some progress. I wish the coding of article 301 was changed from such an ambivalent word for positive law like “Turkishness” into something more concrete like “Turkish nation”. But still, I can’t say people with Armenian or other non-Turkish heritage are afraid to express that because of that article. Judges have started to use discretion in favour of “criticism” instead of “insult”, and in no way someone’s declaration that, say, her grandmother was forcefully converted, or their whole family were suppressed from declaring their true identity can be prosecuted on grounds of this law. I used “collective catharsis and mobilization” for people like these, not Kurds (they are very much mobilized after all). Mjm, I wish you had a chance to come and visit Turkey, talk to ordinary people, see with your own eyes if that looks like a society about to disintegrate. I’m quite illiterate about the causes of USSR’s collapse, that’d be a whole other issue. Well yes, no body predicted it, but we wouldn’t go beyond speculation with this…
Mjm also wrote: “you didn’t lay out the most important prerequisite for the ‘success’ of this new plan in which Armenians would have ‘much to gain’: repentance and official apology from the Turkish state for the crime of genocide they committed against the Armenians”
I think I emphasized “official apology” well enough.
Mjm: “offering citizenship to the descendants of genocide victims and survivors, the people who lived and developed state formations and high civilization on their ancestral lands for millennia before being annihilated, is clearly insufficient. Financial reparations and land restitution can only be considered as an adequate compensation for exterminating a race”.
My suggestion attempts to find some common ground that’d avoid two things: the continuing exile of Armenians from Turkey & dislocation of millions of current residents in those lands, which no democratic government can undertake by its own will. I think we have to agree to disagree on “land restitution”.
Mjm: “Why did the Turks create the TRNC after the invasion of a sovereign state of Cyprus instead of attempting to work out a plan with the Greek Cypriot government for extending Cypriot citizenship to the Turks?”
Elsewhere in these pages I wrote: “Turkey should have retreated as soon as the junta was overthrown and now there is not much basis for Turkish presence in international law”. I support a unified Cyprus…
mjm
July 13, 2010
Memik,
Thank you for your balanced attempts at finding a common ground to Turkey’s problem with the Armenians. In parts, your viewpoints may be given a thought, but still I don’t see a practical basis for their realization for a variety of reasons. You contend: ‘I was trying to show just as Republic of Armenia has a ‘special’ relationship with Karabagh, so has Turkey with Azerbaijan.’ Please be corrected: Armenia and Artsakh constitute one nation, they always were although in different historical periods one or the other part could fall under conqueror-nation domination or exist autonomously or semi-autonomously. This is not anything close to the ‘one nation two states’ formula of Turkey’s relationship with a fellow Turkic nation of Caucasus Tartars, as the Azerbaijanis were known up until 1918. Besides, Artsakh Armenians live on their own land as they have for centuries; they were placed under the Soviet Azerbaijan jurisdiction in the 1920s, but fought the war of independence in the 1990s and have won it. This is something very different from the Turkey-Armenia paradigm in that the Ottoman Armenians, having lived in greater Armenia (mainly six Armenian vilayets of the Ottoman empire) were physically wiped out.
Having said this, I, just as other Armenian commentators in this discussion, have difficulties accepting the plan of returning to Turkey as Turkish citizens, to a Turkey that, in the view of many, hasn’t changed a bit in that Turks haven’t shown any sign for admitting to live as equal citizens and not the dominant ethnos. Repressions against the Kurds are just one major demonstration of this distressing actuality.
The democracy in Turkey… a contentious issue, Memik. I suggest we avoid discussing it because I admit I can only judge by what I read and witness. Orhan Pamuk’s deportation (how can a society that considers itself democratic and civilized persecute and deport its Nobel Prize laureate?!); persecutions against many intellectuals who speak the truth about the Turkish genocides of many indigenous peoples inhabiting Asia Minor, Armenian genocide being the ugliest; Dink’s murder and impunity of the true murderers; his lawyer’s murder; Christian priests’ murders, and, most importantly, the continuation of the state-sponsored denial policy of Turkish crimes against many indigenous peoples, are just some grounds for Armenians’ skepticism about a more ‘democratic’ or more ‘civilized’ Turkey.
Like I said, my prognosis that Turkey may disintegrate may be hypothetical, but this is what I sense. I think a country that has problems with virtually all of her neighbors; all of her suppressed ethnic minorities who’d have problems if they openly identify themselves as non-Turks; a country that’s founded on the blood and bones of millions of massacred human beings representing ancient civilizations; Turkification of their architectural and cultural achievements; distortion of historical truth in the schools; repressions against those who dare to speak the truth about the Armenian genocide, and the ongoing policy of denial that such a crime was committed, has little chance of existing for long.
For now, we may have to agree to disagree on “land restitution,” but tomorrow it may happen. Murderer state just can’t hide away forever reaping the results of her deliberate exterminatory policy, seizing the lands of others, settling in the houses of others, enriching herself with their stolen property, and ennobling herself with their cultural contributions and architectural marbles. This may sound utopian, but we believe…
Thank you for your wishing me to come and visit Turkey, you opened my wound, inadvertently though. My grandparents’ house in Kars, in the Bayram Pasha district, is said to still stand there… inhabited by the Kurds. How can I come and visit and not have a heart attack seeing it? My grandparents fled the Turkish pogroms and massacres and left everything behind. Most of my grandparents’ family members were massacred. Now your State enjoys the fruits of my ancestors’ hard work, the house they built for their children and grandchildren, their joy, their hopes, their dreams … How can I come? Sorry… you made shed tears…
Gayane
July 13, 2010
Mjm.. i got tears when I read your post.. it is too often we receive such invitation to go visit the country that used to be our Ancient lands..but the mere invitation is like putting a dagger in someone’s heart.. I know Memik did not mean anything by it but i know how much pain it can cause to someone who is very familiar with Turkey and her games…..
However, even though there are few like Memik who definintely demonstrate some balance and acceptance of the facts and what is going on; i still believe that the majority of the population in TUrkey remain in the Ataturk mentality and I refuse to even set foot and walk on the same streets with people who believe they are high and mighty .. and that the country they live in is none other than for Turks only…..
Mjm jan.. i truly believe we can conquer and i agree with everything you said…
Thank you
Gayane
Memik
July 14, 2010
mjm, I’m terribly sorry for opening old wounds, I respect the fact that these are sensitive issues and a people’s tragedy encloses unnumbered individual tragedies… I really wish a long healing process can at last start between our nations, and we can recover as much as possible. We’ve been talking partly about the prospect of social progress in Turkey, an open ended and contingent process. Therefore, there is nothing urgent for us to agree on the proper means of this “healing” for now. There are so many things in Turkey that makes me angry, desperate and gloomy (Ani’s above post gives yet another reason to be so). Besides what currenty exists, as Boyajian mentioned, thinking of what could have been is even more painful. I also don’t wish to value human life in terms of utility, but imagining the state of those lands today had Armenians left unharmed is very very sad (just to give an example like comparing the theatres, families like Fabrikatöryans and lively cultural athmosphere of Kharpert before and the state of the region now).
But I don’t want to spend my life with these thoughts, enough grieving, we must act and change things!
mjm, you’re certainly entitled to have serious reservations about co-citizenship and return to Turkey under current state of affairs. Yet, I’m puzzled by the possibility that my aspirations for a more humane Turkish society that shows proper respect for its members’ dignity might putting my position in opposition to many Armenians like you (who are very reasonable and intellectual) who seems to prefer the break-down of that society! That is, the as people like me strive to do the ‘right’ thing and to fix things, we’d be preventing or postponing that break-down. Yet still, there might not be much room for immediate Armenian involvement in these developments anyway, since first we have to sort things among us in Turkey, starting from establishing fairness and equality between Turks and Kurds, secularists and the religious, ‘White Turks’ and the rest…
We humans tend to be able to come to terms with our faults either after being forced to do so, or after some capacity for self-confidence develops in us. Nevertheless, sometimes, fights between brothers is the fiercest. mjm, I hope you will host me in Kars sometime…
Murat
July 14, 2010
“Yet, I’m puzzled by the possibility that my aspirations for a more humane Turkish society that shows proper respect for its members’ dignity might putting my position in opposition to many Armenians like you (who are very reasonable and intellectual) who seems to prefer the break-down of that society!”
Maybe you should check and verify your basic assumptions Memik!
Boyajian
July 14, 2010
Murat, recognizing areas of divergence and opposition is the first step in formulating a mutually beneficial resolution to a conflict. Memik is dealing openly, logically, humanely and respectfully. We welcome you to do the same.
Perouz
July 14, 2010
How much justice can dialogue hope to lead to in view of the following report that has just been distributed by Groong?
TURKISH JOURNALIST FACES IMPRISONMENT FOR COLUMN ABOUT DINK CASE PanARMENIAN.Net
July 13, 2010 – 16:41 AMT 11:41 GMT
Hopes are dimming for justice in the murder of Turkish-Armenian journalist Hrant Dink as the 14th hearing in the case is held in Istanbul, with family members, lawyers and supporters saying the investigation has been lacking, Hurriyet Daily News reports.
Expressing some of the same concerns Daily News columnist Cengiz Candar is now facing a prison sentence of between one and three years for a column about the case.
“Not the criminals but those who denounce the criminals are tried in this country,” said Fethiye Cetin, a lawyer for the Dink family, referring to Candar’s case. “Not the crime or the criminal but those who write about it are tried. This shows us how justice works in this country.”
mjm
July 14, 2010
Memik –
Many thanks for being so compassionate to other human beings’ grief, whether they’re Armenian or non-Armenian, Muslim or non-Muslim. This is what the notion of humanism and civility is all about. This is also what we, Armenians, believe as the world’s most ancient Christian nation: ‘Love thy neighbour as thyself’ and ‘Love your enemies! Pray for those who persecute you,’ for we believe that there is no revenge so complete as forgiveness. We only ask the Turks to admit the guilt and repent. Everything else, Memik, your plan for co-citizenship and return to Turkey or my prognosis for a rightful place for the Armenians on those lands whether or not Turkey disintegrates, or many other options can be worked out so that no harm is done to the peoples inhabiting the six Armenian vilayets now.
I, too, don’t want to spend my life and my children’s lives with these thoughts, enough grieving, indeed. But we need to know that the Turks admitted the guilt and they’re sorry. This is absolutely imperative, Memik, before any consideration can be given to any reconciliation plan.
As for your ‘aspirations for a more humane Turkish society that shows proper respect for its members’ dignity,’ it’s a domestic Turkish affair, I believe. I wouldn’t want the Armenians to invest in the betterment of the Turkish society knowing that the society is still unrepentant and that the same horrific fate wouldn’t befall us after we re-appear in our ancient lands. We already have a bitter experience of jealousy and spite towards the Ottoman Armenians who during the Ottoman centuries and throughout their 3000+ existence have always excelled in arts, literature, architecture, trade and commerce, banking business, etc. How can we be sure that when we excel again, as returned co-citizens, the same genocidal destiny: appropriation of businesses, properties, industries, insurance indemnities, and, most valuably, human lives may not befall us again in an unchanged, undemocratized, and largely uncivilized and xenophobic society?
This said, I support your idea that ‘first [you] have to sort things among [yourselves] in Turkey, starting from establishing fairness and equality between Turks and Kurds, secularists and the religious, ‘White Turks’ and the rest…’ I’d only add and emphasize again: ‘and admit the guilt in massacring the Armenians and repent for your own good.’
Boyajian
July 16, 2010
Mjm expresses very well what many Armenians fear when presented with the suggestion that a reconciliation with Turkey include returning to our lands as citizens of Turkey:
How can we be sure that when we excel again, as returned co-citizens, the same genocidal destiny: appropriation of businesses, properties, industries, insurance indemnities, and, most valuably, human lives may not befall us again in an unchanged, undemocratized, and largely uncivilized and xenophobic society?
Clearly, there is much healing that must take place, but a prerequisite to the idea that Armenians could someday live as equal citizens in Turkey is the notion of a full apology and admission of guilt by Turkey, followed by appropriate reparations. Without this as the foundation, no true rapprochement can be achieved. Today in Turkey Armenians are not free to live out their full heritage for fear of social and legal repercussions. Hrant Dink and his attorney’s murder are striking reminders of the price of being too candid, not to mention the cancelling of the program with Sevan Nishanyan debating the genocide facts with Halacoglu. With this kind of ongoing oppression/suppression, it appears that Turkish society has not matured enough to engage in assuming responsibilty for the crime of genocide, or the ability to relinquish the notion of Turkish superiority over others.
After what the Armenians endured under Turkish rule and in 95 years of blatant denial and distortion, I believe the only proper reparation is restoration of lands with Armenian-self-determination. I know this is a problematic concept for Turks. I look forward to continued dialogue, especially with thoughtful, fair-minded people like Memik. Who knows where mutual respect can take us in solving this dilemma?
Boyajian
July 19, 2010
We haven’t heard from Memik in a few days; hope he didn’t suffer repercussions for his open-minded approach to discussing the genocide and the possibility of reparations. I liked the fact that Armenians could have a reasonable, mostly balanced discussion with a fellow human being who happens to be Turkish and who is able to express empathy and regret for what Armenians suffered under Turkish rule.
Memik
July 21, 2010
I just had a chance to write since I’ve been hiding in the basement, to escape the grey-wolf paramilitaries raiding our home
))
I would like to thank Boyajian, mjm and gayane for their contructive comments, I learned a lot from this discussion (particularly that a rejection of co-citizenship may have reasonable grounds). I agree that even if we don’t arrive at the same course of action, how we interpret the values we share (differently), clarifying the principles we act on and the ‘grounds’ for the demands we make against each other are very very important indeed. If we can have a better understanding on the motivations, values and sensitivities behind the position of the other, I believe, we will have a stronger basis for toleration and cooperation.
Boyajian: indeed, Turkish society has not yet “matured” to the point of admitting guilt. The memory of ethnic conflict and war wasn’t easy to overcome for Turks (I’ve been reading about the diaries of Robert Anhegger & Andreas Tietze who travelled around Anatolia between 1936-37, and mention that in towns like Kayseri, the debris left from previously Christian parts still remained at the time!). Yet, the prospect of inter-ethnic strife still haunts the nation (this time Muslim against Muslim). Hopefully the majority will awaken to the fact that something essential in our dealings with one another has to change. An interesting comment I coincided claims that the state bureaucracy (including high echelons of military) is divided between those who are pro- and anti-reform (which was revealed by how different courts made radically different decisions with respect to ex-PKK members). Democratic-minded bureaucrats have been effectively cleansed after the 1980 coup, but it seems they are re-flourishing. I can’t imagine their victory over the reactionary/regressive elites wouldn’t have any spill-over effects for Armenians… mjm is right with his “first-things-first” approach, but it seems the “ground” for admittance of guilt depends on the result of this power struggle.
Again, thank you for this informative and sometime emotional discussion…
mjm
July 21, 2010
Boyajian:
While I tend to think that there may be many honest, open-minded Turks like Memik, we shouldn’t forget that discussions like this one are open to many kinds of people with various agendas. I tend to believe that Memik’s contributions were sincere, but having said that I wouldn’t rule out a possibility that from time to time Turks may be stepping in these discussions to test our position on a variety of issues, such as co-citizenship for the returned Armenians short of recognition of the genocide and restitution of lands.
I’m glad that under any circumstances our position remains strong and unified: no reconciliation until recognition of the crime of genocide and no co-citizenship until the lands of Armenian vilayets are restituted.
Boyajian
July 22, 2010
It is always a good idea to keep our eyes open, but not to let the paranoia that can result from the victimization we have endured to cloud our thinking with regard to open dialogue. I like to err on the side of caution but with an open mind, mjm. I want to believe that there are Turks who are compassionate enough to show empathy for what Armenians suffered. If this is merely a fishing game on Memik’s part, I can’t tell. But I do know that I really enjoyed the feeling of speaking with a Turk who seemed to want to get it.
Memik, I’m glad you escaped the gendarmes!
Perouz
July 22, 2010
mjm is absolutely right. the Midnight Express still stands in the station. It goes into the desert, and you don’t get snacks or drinks during the journey. Repent. Repay. Simple. And if the Turks and Kurds don’t know where to start, well, I can give them a long list of the names of my family who were brutalized and murdered. I can give them a list of the property and money they pillaged from us. And it would be an extremely good thing if they took their names off our villages and put ours back on the map. Simple. We’d like to show our grandchildren where their ancestors once upon a time tilled the fields and birthed their children and sang their songs and dreamed of freedom from the immoral, brural tyrants that governed and eventually murdered them. It’s long past the time the Turks came to terms with the sure knowledge that they cannot get rid of all of us. We are here to stay. And our children, and their children, and all our generations to come will pound on the doors of the world until we get justice. Period.
mjm
July 22, 2010
Memik,
As fact of the matter, we generally tend to take the issue of open-mindedness and free expression of opinion in the Turkish society very seriously, regardless how many smiley faces you’d put at the end of this sentence: “I just had a chance to write since I’ve been hiding in the basement, to escape the grey-wolf paramilitaries raiding our home ))” All is not that simple, my friend, and the world knows dozens of cases when those truth-speaking Turks were tries, prosecuted, deported, and even killed. So on this point I can laugh with you at your joke out of politeness, but in reality I’d rather insert a gloomy face instead. A state that can try and deport her Nobel Prize laureate, a world-renowned writer Orhan Pamuk, for speaking the truth about the Armenian genocide and the persecution of Kurds, is seriously ill. A state that can shot a world-renowned journalist and human rights advocate Hrant Dink in downtown Constantinople in the daylight for the same reason, is very unsafe. A state that can prosecute her citizens at her will whenever their expression of opinions can be seen as “insulting Turkishness,” is very far from being a democracy. A state that distributes DVDs to her elementary schools depicting Armenians(?!) massacring the Turks, i.e. completely distorting history and planting hatred in the minds of her youth, demonstrates that it’ll hardly apologize to the Armenians for wiping them out from the face of the earth. Such a state of affairs only reassures us that the process of international recognition of genocide and international defamation of Turkey can ultimately make your state become repentant and admit guilt. I’dl like to assure you, Memik, and please spread the word to your friends: Armenains will NEVER cease at demanding justice for their millions of savagely mass murdered, mutilated, forcibly deported, burnt and buried alive, drawn in rivers and crashed against the walls, starved to death during the death marches and in the Syrian deserts. WE WILL NEVER STOP. And we know that in 5 years or in another 95 years we will ultimately win, because there is a justice, Memik, a divine justice, that prevails over our human mundane considerations and our human mistakes.
I wish you luck living in the Turkish society founded on the blood and bones of millions of enslaved and murdered ancient indigenous peoples: Greeks, Assyrians, Armenians, and the Kurds. As I said above, I just don’t believe that a society founded on blood and lies can exist for long time. Sooner or later a punishment will come. In what form, no one of us knows. But, as Christians, we believe in miracles. In fact, that the Armenians, who were subject to indescribable violence under Bloody Sultan Hamid and the Young Turks, are still alive, very alive although greatly reduced in numbers and territory, is by itself a miracle.
Boyajian
July 22, 2010
Perouz and mjm, thank you for your strength, passion and commitment. I agree that Turkey will eventually pay. Wrong will be set right.
gayane
July 22, 2010
AMEN MJM jan.. AMEN…
I got goosebumps reading your last comment.. It absolutely necessary.. without a doubt that we can’t move forward and expect TUrkey to be the state we want her to be.. and just like Mjm nicely described the line of points where it demonstrate how much backward the Turkey is in these modern days is absolutely scary…
Memik.. hope you understand that there is nothing against you personally.. and i pray to God that your intentions were genuine and that there are Turks who are balanced and intelligent such as yourself to stand on the side of truth and justice..but as I said only God knows your true intentions…
Gayane