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Armenian Americans Sue Turkey for Genocide Losses

LOS ANGELES, Calif. (The Associated Press)—Armenian American lawyers filed a federal lawsuit on July 30 against the Turkish government and two banks, seeking compensation for the heirs of Armenians whose property was seized during the Armenian Genocide.

Lawyers are seeking class-action status for the suit, a process attorney Brian Kabateck said could take as long as three years.

“We are rolling up our sleeves and are going forward,” he said.

The lawsuit was filed on behalf of plaintiffs Garbis Davouyan of Los Angeles and Hrayr Turabian of Queens, N.Y. It alleges breach of statutory trust, unjust enrichment, human rights violations, and violations of international law.

Compensation is sought for land, buildings, and businesses allegedly seized from Armenians as they were driven from the Ottoman Empire, along with bank deposits and property, including priceless religious and other artifacts, some of which are now housed in museums in Turkey.

Attorney Mark Geragos said it was the first such lawsuit directly naming the government of the Republic of Turkey as a defendant.

“All of the lawyers involved have relatives who perished or fled the Armenian Genocide, which gives it a special poignancy for us,” he said.

Also named in the lawsuit were the Central Bank of Turkey and T.C. Ziraat Bankasi, the largest and oldest Turkish bank, with origins dating back to the 1860′s.

According to the lawsuit, the government of Turkey agreed to administer the property, collecting rents and sale proceeds from the seized assets and depositing the receipts in trust accounts until the property could be restored to owners.

Instead the government has “withheld the property and any income derived from such property,” the lawsuit said.

A message left with the Turkish consul general’s office in Los Angeles was not immediately returned. After-hours emails seeking comment from both banks were not readily answered.

Lawyers for the plaintiffs believe records of the properties and profits still exist, and they are seeking an accounting that could reach billions of dollars.

In 2000, the California Legislature recognized the deaths as genocide when it allowed heirs to seek payment on life-insurance policies of dead relatives. The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals later invalidated the law. Geragos has appealed that ruling.

Still, the heirs were paid nearly $40 million by New York Life Insurance Co. and French insurer AXA.

49 Comments on Armenian Americans Sue Turkey for Genocide Losses

  1. avatar papken hartunian // July 30, 2010 at 8:31 am // Reply

    Armenians must file a class action lawsuit against the Republic of Turkey for committing genocide against Western and Eastern Armenians.

  2. You are right, Papken. Is this the best law firm to do it with? I know nothing about them. We need lions that can roar loud enough to be heard by the world.

  3. avatar Simon Zavarian // July 30, 2010 at 9:33 am // Reply

    THIS IS BY FAR THE BEST NEWS ABOUT ANYTHING ARMENIAN IVE HEARD SINCE OUR HEIRS RECLAIMED THEIR RIGHTFUL ASSETS FROM NEW YORK LIFE INSURANCE AND AXA.
     
    THIS VERY LONG OVERDUE LAWSUIT IS PROGRESS UNLIKE THE DEFEATIST PROTOCOLS THAT OBFUSCATE THE CULPABILITY OF THE CRIME OF GENOCIDE AND ATTEMPT TO WHITEWASH ITS HISTORICITY.
     
    PERHAPS ARMENIANS FROM ACROSS THE GLOBE CAN FILE SIMILAR FEDERAL LAWSUITS AGAINST THE GOVERNMENT OF TURKEY, THE CENTRAL BANK OF TURKEY AND ZIRAAT BANKASI.
     
    A TSUNAMI OF LAWSUITS AGAINST THE GOVERNMENT OF TURKEY FROM ARMENIANS WORLDWIDE SURELY WILL SEND THE RIGHT MESSAGE TO WORLD LEADERS, OUR OWN US GOV AND ESPECIALLY OUR SLEEPY HEADS IN YEREVAN.

  4. Its about bloody time! Thank you Kabateck, Giragos et al.
    Why this lawsuit could not have been filed 50 or 25  or 10 years ago when my great grandparents were still alive is beyond me. I wonder if this lawsuit had been filled even just 5 years ago, would official Yerevan have had the the gall or opportunity to accept or endorse the ridiculous protocols.

  5. AMEN TO THE LORD who smiled upon us on this day.. because when I read this article, my entire body start shivering from excitment, happiness and i could not hold back my tears…

    THIS IS THE BEST NEWS EVER SO FAR.. I agree with Simon on this… and I also agree that EVERY SINGLE ARMENIAN who has wealth owed to them file lawsuits.. ALL OF THEM.
    And I also agree with Papken.. I sure want to see us sue the crap out of Turkey for the Ottoman Turkish Genocide of our Ancestors; Western and Eastern Armenians.. 

    I have faith and hope that God will help us to win what belongs to us.
    May God give our lawyers and everyeone involved in this endeavor patience, STRONG VOICE, persistence, determination, luck and most of all balls to stand up to EVERYONE who would not wish this to happen.. I AM SHOUTING LOUD FOR YOU.. WE WILL WIN THIS BATTLE….
    God Bless…
    Gayane

  6. Hello from Istanbul,
    When i visit this web site and read to news and comments i feel sad ussually, as a Turk.
    But sometimes when i see something it makes me smile, like Masis BakeryS commercial.
    I looked at the menu and i sad i wish i could taste all of them,
    Do you know that, we use same names for all of them, for example.
    Massish(Massis Language)             Turkish
    Lahmejune & Boregs Lahmacun&Borek
    Baklava                                       Baklava
    Simidi                                          Simid
    Bourma                                        Burma
    Bastourma & Soujouk Pastırma& Sucuk
    Anyway, same foods same names.
    I wish we could change the past, i know it is impossible but maybe we can change the future.
    Best future wishes to all.
     
     
     
     

  7. To build a better future, we must start with a good foundation, on clean and healthy bases. If modern Turkey has nothing to do with Ottoman Turkey, then it must recognize its crimes, recognize the Genocide and look into a repair, and on behalf of its people Turkey must tell the truth. Turkish children (and not only) need to learn about the truth. After so many years of lies, denial and revisionism !

    At this time we could consider a possible future between Armenia and Turkey, where Turkish and Armenian children will grow up without any animosity.

  8. avatar Teylerian, Jr // July 31, 2010 at 10:43 am // Reply

    Yes, Istanbul, thanks for noticing the similarities in the names of some foods and appetizers. Do you know that Armenians had their distinctive cuisine having this foodstuff long before the formation of the House of Osman in the 14th century AD? Then I leave it to you to conclude as to who stole not only the names of indigenous foods and appetizers, but also thousands of architectural, cultural, and musical artifacts throughout Western Armenia (which Turks call ‘Eastern Anatolia’). As a result, now they became ‘same foods with same names.’ Past cannot be changed, and Armenians can never recover the lives of 1.5 million innocent people butchered in cold blood by Turkish barbarians, but what CAN be done to change the future id for the murdered nation to apologize to the victims. Have you ever considered this? No? Your nation will be forced to do this. Until then, best of luck to you, too…

  9. ‘Massis’ is another name for Mt. Ararat that is now captured by Turkey and renamed in the best Turkish tradition to ‘Mt. Agra.’ Massis or Ararat is the Biblical mountain, sacred to the Armenians and to all Christians in the world. As for the pen name that you use: ‘Instanbul’, it was never before known in history as such. Before it was captured and destroyed by nomadic Turks in the 15th century it was always known as Constantinople, the center of Byzantine Christian world. Use your own judgment as to what your nation essentially represents of itself…

  10. DAVID CAMERON IS ANOTHER CLOWN WHO IS ADVOCATING FOR TURKISH MEMBERSHIP IN THE EUROPEAN UNION!!!  I HOPE ALL 75 MILLION PLUS TURKISH MUSLIMS MIGRATE TO BRITAIN!!!

  11. This seems to be simply a continuation of the policies of the Armenian revolutionaries that was the cause of so much tragedy in the first place.  Some people are willing to fight it all over again, not much has changed in their sentiments and motivations.Why not also sue Greeks and Italian whose grandfathers fed the early Christians to lions?  Who do you think I should take to court for the lives and property of my family destroyed by Armenians and Greeks?  There are some cooler heads though also:

    Armenians split on lawsuit against Turkey

    Although a majority of Armenians have supported a new U.S.-based lawsuit to claim compensation for land lost in 1915 in the late Ottoman Empire, some prominent academics and journalists from the community have criticized the measure.

    “We cannot allow these individual steps to cause us to fall out with each other,” Ara Sarafian, a historian and director of the Gomidas Institute in London, told the Hürriyet Daily News & Economic Review. “The Turkish people need to understand that these people do not represent the diaspora or the entire Armenian world. Just like Turkish nationalists, they’re trying to make Armenian nationalism.”

    Echoing Sarafian’s statements, famous Professor Oshin Keshishian said: “Of course it’s important for Turkey to accept the genocide. However, it is very wrong to reduce this sensitive and hurtful event to material things.” Keshishian is the editor-in-chief of the Armenian Observer, a newspaper based in the United States.

    Answering questions from the Daily News, Amaduni Virabian, the director of the National Archives of Armenia, said that although he believes the lawsuit has merit, he does not think it can achieve the desired results. Virabian expressed his pessimism on the matter, saying that he “knows” Turkey will not pay compensation.

    On the other hand, Ruben Safrastian, director of the Armenia National Academy of Sciences Institute of Oriental Studies, said the lawsuit could be a way for Armenians to regain what was taken from them.

    Commenting on whether or not the lawsuit will affect attempts to improve ties between Turks and Armenians, Safrastian said they were independent processes.

    Meanwhile, Syrian-Armenian journalist Harout Ekmanian said, “I think the lawsuit must not only seek compensation, but allow the restoring of the right of return of diaspora Armenians to their ancestors’ homeland, and to guarantee their physical, cultural and political safety within the Republic of Turkey as a first step.”

  12. Hi from Istanbul again.
    Thank you for your commenents. Firstly, you are right lots of people in Turkey DİDN’T know what happened in 1915 till a few years ago, but right now, in all tv channels and magazines and newspapers, everbody can says their opinion. Nearly all tv stations made programs about genocide, most of them invite two sides of opinionins. It means some people said it was genocide(in Turkey, in lots of tv programs) nobody arrested. Some of them said ‘yes unfortunatky lots of Armenian people died but it was not genocide etc’ Most important think is people can discuss in Turkey. In Turkey everything can change very fast, i think in a few years an official apoligize come from goverment.
    գիշեր բարի-good night-iyi geceler
     
     

  13. As usual, once again it appears that my post has been censored and deleted!

  14. Hey Simon,

    Careful what you wish for. It has a tendency of coming right back and biting you in the butt! Also do not forget that what you start, you will not be able to finish. Do you truly believe that Turkey and all Turka and Turkic peoples world-wide will simply stand idely by while you try to perpetrate yet another injustice against us? Heed the words of Japanese Admiral Yamamoto when he stated just after the attack on Pearl Harbor…”I’m afraid all we succeeded in accomplishing was to awaken a sleeping giant”. To this day we’ve been as tolerant as possible with you people. Once you unleash the “genie”, there may be no turning back, and you will then discover soon enough, that what you did just wasn’t worth the price which you WILL all pay later! 

  15. avatar Teylerian, Jr // August 1, 2010 at 1:45 pm // Reply

    Murat,
     
    The cause of ‘so much tragedy’ that the world increasingly recognizes as genocide, i.e. a deliberate, centrally-planned and executed annihilation of the Armenian race in the traditional, that is barbarous, Turkish way, was not the policies of a few Armenian revolutionaries. If this is what they teach you at schools, then all I can do is to pity you. In the late 19th early 20th centuries revolutionaries representing many nations that were conquered by nomadic Turks raised their heads to fight for freedom for their nations: Arabs, Greeks, Bulgarians, Romanians, Serbs. Armenians were not an exception. They wanted to bring freedom from loathed Turkish yoke, however, their policies never resulted in an all-out regime change or armed rebellions in the six historical Armenian vilayets. To think that the cause for wiping out the whole race and ancient civilization was because of the policies of a few revolutionaries is as primitive as only a Turk can think. Revolutionaries in other nations also rose up, but Arabs, Greeks, Bulgarians, Romanians, and Serbs were not all exterminated. According to your weird logic, they too should have been subjected to genocide in the hands of the Turks, but they weren’t. Might you know why? Even IF we admit that a few revolutionaries caused ‘so much tragedy,’ as you say, or genocide as the civilized world says, might you know why those few revolutionaries were not imprisoned by the Ottoman authorities, but instead the whole roughly 2 million Ottoman Armenians were wiped out? I’d be curious to know what rubbish you Turks are being stuffed by in your denialist state.
     
    Armenians are willing to fight because Western Armenian civilization that existed for 3000+ years, i.e. long before the invasions of your nomadic savage forefathers Seljuks and Mongols to the area. Because 1.5 million innocent, unarmed men women and children were mass murdered in cold blood in the most atrocious ways by the Turks, a nation that considers itself ‘civilized.’ Because all their properties, houses, pastures, bank accounts, insurance indemnities, educational, cultural, architectural structures were stolen and/or destroyed. How would you feel if the same happened to the Turks? Go read non-Turkish (and non-Armenian, if you think they’re biased) sources, witness accounts, or watch horrific pictures and witness and survivors’ stories online and decide for yourself what name can be applied to your nation. If you can’t do this by your own, then be aware that just at the time of invasions of Seljuks and Mongols and at the times of the prison of nations, the Ottoman empire, now, too, most of your nation are viewed by the world as ‘barbarian Turks.’ Armenians believe that you will never change.
     
    What ‘Greeks and Italians whose grandfathers fed the early Christians to lions’ are you talking about? Is this crap being taught at the Turkish schools? Or you mean Romans who ‘fed the early Christians to lions’? Yes, they did at the dawn of the rise of Christianity, because ancient Romans were pagans and were intolerable towards the emergence of the new faith. But guess what, this was done in the 1st century AD, not the 20th century when the world grew more civilized except for the Turks, and was mostly done on the gladiators’ arenas not throughout the whole empire, and toward a new faith that was perceived heretical not toward a particular nation or race as in the case of the Armenians. Regardless, Christianity at the end was proclaimed Rome’s official religion in the 4th century AD by Constantine, an emperor who established Constantinople which the Turks conquered and destroyed in the 15th century and, in the best Turksih tradition, renamed it to Istanbul. Or they teach you at schools that Turks have always lived in Constantinople and the rest of modern-day Turkey?
     
    As for another bizarre remark ‘Who do you think I should take to court for the lives and property of my family destroyed by Armenians and Greeks?’ You mean Armenians and Greeks wiped out the whole Turkish civilization as a result of premeditated plan laid out by the central government? I challenge you to show me one evidence in the world literature testifying to this. Were there inter-ethnic, inter-communal clashes involving oppressed Armenians, Greeks, Assyrians against the Turkish colonizers? Yes, there were. But Armenians, Greeks, and Assyrians did not mass exterminate the whole Turkish population on orders of their central government because they had no central government, no amassed military force, no mobilized power, and most importantly, no propensity, as Christians, to take the lives of innocent people from God. But you did, and you’ll be punished however spiteful you now can be. Please make no mistake…

  16. ‘Hey’ Robert! Do you know that ‘hay’ is for horses? Be careful what you daydream for. We didn’t start the process of recognition of the genocide, including the legal suits against the perpetrators of genocide. We continue it for 95 years because your ‘civilized’ nation denies the crime it’s committed against humanity by exterminating Armenians. Don’t you worry, we will finish what we’ve been doing for decades. We’re called ancient Armenians not barbarous Turks. I foy think that Armenians perpetrate ‘yet another injustice against you, then I’d recommend you to see a psychiatrist. Turks butchered, mutilated, burnt and buried alive, starved to death millions of indigenous peoples inhabiting Asia Minor, Armenians were subjected to this barbarity in the most horrific ways, and you now dare to state that we ‘perpetrated injustice against you’? The price that’d have to be paid is being demanded by the civilized world from the Turks not from the Armenians, because in contrast to your state that’s distorted the its whole history and hid the most shameful pages in it, the world knows who is a murderer nation and who will pay for crimes. And you’ll witness during your lifetime how your nation will ask forgiveness from the Armenians. But for now, you may continue day-dreaming…

  17. Robert, are you serious?  What an ominous warning.  Are you a criminal, a brainwashed thug or an unthinking nationalist?  You continually complain that your comments are not posted, yet I read plenty of racist dribble on this site from you. Makes one wonder what is being edited out.
     
    What does this inflammatory rhetoric mean:
    To this day we’ve been as tolerant as possible with you people. Once you unleash the “genie”, there may be no turning back, and you will then discover soon enough, that what you did just wasn’t worth the price which you WILL all pay later!
     
    Who is the we in “we’ve”.
    Who is “you people”?
    What exactly is the “genie”?
    What will the genie do?
    When is “later?”
     
    And what about this pearl:
    “Do you truly believe that Turkey and all Turka and Turkic peoples world-wide will simply stand idly by while you try to perpetrate yet another injustice against us?”
     
    What injustice? Do you really not know the truth about what the Young Turks did to Armenians?  Do you really not recognize what was misappropriated (stolen) from the 1.5 million deported and massacred Armenians?  Get your head out of the ground and face facts.  Turks have spent centuries barbarically conquering and abusing those who it subjugated with the worst being dealt to Armenians.  Turkey suffered losses that caused the crumbling of the Ottoman Empire because native peoples began to assert their rights to self-determination and decided to rebel against domination.  Turkey has reaped what she has sown and today cries over her losses rather than take responsibility for the evil she wrought.  It is time for Turks to come to terms with their dark history and join the ranks of nations willing to live at peace with her neighbors.
     
    What could the editors possibly be withholding from us when they let comments like this through?  Editors, please let Robert’s comments through.  We need to know the mind of our adversary.

  18. Robert, one more thing about this:
    “Do you truly believe that Turkey and all Turka and Turkic peoples world-wide will simply stand idly by while you try to perpetrate yet another injustice against us?”
    When you say something like this, aren’t you saying that all the Turkic people of the world will band together on the basis of their shared racial identity against anyone who they perceive to pose a threat to a portion of their “group.”  Isn’t this the height of racism?  Isn’t this imperialist thinking?  Isn’t this kind of thinking a threat to the rest of the world, in case they decide to “cross the Turks”?  Are you living in the 21st century?
     
    Wake up people.  There really are Turks who think like this today.  Pan-turanism is alive and well and living next door.  This is no battle for the weak-kneed.

  19. avatar Grish Begian // August 1, 2010 at 11:04 pm // Reply

    Robert,
    Sound that you love to compare your sleepy Turkish nation with well advanced nations like Russia or Japan!!!!your beloved Turkey can not even produce ammunition for their guns …they have to wait for approval of new deliveries from US before attacking Kurdish rebels…I am sure if a war break up between Turkey and Armenia, there will be surprises, for very interesting people like you dear (Robert) ..in today’s technology quantitative can not be compared with qualitative..NKR war, is a good example, start from Afghan Talibans, Wahhabis, and many many more who fought along side of their beloved Muslim brothers of Azeri Turks, against few thousand of Armenians during Karabkh war..

  20. Yet again.. Murat and Robert emerge from their dark hole to make racist and unintelligent comments..

    They are an excellent examples to show that people like them do exist with their Ataturk mentality living today.. i feel sorry for them..

    i also feel sorry for those Turks who truly understand and willing to make mends with the world to clear their hands and conscious from their ancestors’ bloody past.. yet clowns like Robert and Murat (i know them very well… how they operate and think…had many exchanges with them on different discussion forums)… ruin these people’s chances to break away..

    Robert and Murat are two classic examples of brainwashed Turks… I blame it on the Turkish state for producing such robots who think only a linear way with very aggressive and anti-Armenian way… it truly makes you think… will Turkish state help its citizen to snap out of the years of brainwashing or will it continue to feed such hatred and wrong data…. i am leaning toward the second part… Those who break away,, May GOd bless them.. I hope the majority of the Turks move away from such mentality…

    Now for Robert and Murat.. I wish they would too but the way I see it.. it will take a long time to cleanse their brain and soul… but it can be done…

    That said.. Robert and Murat.. dzer akanjin ogh areq… otherwise known: Get through your think heads: ” Armenians WILL NEVER EVER STOP.. even if it means many defeats.. but at the end the winner will be THE Armenian Nation.. and not the denialist, murderous Turkish nation…”….

    Have a wonderful day SIRS…..

    Gayane

  21. We should wish them alot of luck, as they will need it, and having Mark Geragos on the case is probably a very good thing. The issue of sovereign immunity is going to be a tough hurdle to overcome, so will be interesting to see the result. That said, my understanding is that in Turkey if people (Armenians) can provide documentatiion, such as deeds, showing ownership of a property that was abandonned during the genocide, they are legally entitled to recover it – with an odd provision – providing no one is living in or on the property. Who knows what percentage of properties fall into that category?  I don’t, but do know that there are many, many empty, boarded up houses and buildings all over Turkey…waiting for their original owners to return. But then, what to do about a property like the Incerlik airbase?  It was a former Armenian owned cotton plantation… perhaps the heirs will turn up somewhere, someday?   

  22. […in Turkey if people (Armenians) can provide documentation, such as deeds, showing ownership of a property that was abandoned during the genocide, they are legally entitled to recover it – with an odd provision – providing no one is living in or on the property.] ‘If people (Armenians) can provide documentation’ and ‘providing no one is living in or on the property’… How typically Turkish, i.e. sly, these provisions are. Murderer-nation knows too well that few horror-driven Armenians would save documentation while being forcibly driven out from homes on death marches and wholesale massacres. Even at the time of expulsions and extermination of Armenians Tallat was bringing in Turks from the Balkans to re-settle in ‘new homes’ owned by Armenians and to steal their properties. My grandparents hand two homes in Moush and Kars. I imagine that the least they’d tconcern themselves was to salvage their property documentation. Most of my relatives were massacred, and only a few could reach Eastern Armenia.
     
    I don’t think that Armenians need to claim their physical, material, and intellectual property in the Armenian vilayets of the Ottoman empire following modern Turkish laws. It must be done according to the international law, in our capacity as victims of genocide deprived of everything, most importantly, lives of millions of innocent people.

  23. avatar Murat is brainwashed // August 3, 2010 at 10:41 am // Reply

    Hey Murat,
    If Turkey recognized the genocide and paid just compensation as Germany has done, Armenian-Americans would not resort to these ‘revolutionary’ policies. What a joke you are.

    Oh, by the way, when Prime Minister Turgut Ozal threatened in 1993 to remind the Armenians of the “lessons of 1915,” what exactly was he threatening? Was he threatening that Armenian ‘rebels’ in Turkey would organize an insurrection? That doesn’t seem like a threat. He was threatening to re-commit a genocide, which he KNOWS took place. Your leaders know what their predecessors did and they are lying to you.

  24. Do you really think that you can pocket my taxes by this lawsuit in the name of “compensation”?
    Do you really think someday you will get “western armenia” which is called Eastern Anatolia by everyone except you?
    Unlike the Armenians in Turkey and in Armenia, it is impossible to compromise with the Armenian diaspora in the US.
    Just wait a little bit longer to see turkish diaspora gets stronger than you.

  25. Hi Alp (whatever your name is)

    The reason your Turkey can’t get what she wants is because Diasporan Armenians won’t let it and that is killing her.. Turkey can’t handle it.. but get this Alp… no matter what happens.. Diaspora Armenians will be at your throat till the end…and on top of that God will punish your kind.. sooner or later…

    And I am not surprised by your statement about Turkish Diaspora becoming stronger..well why would not it? Turkey’s blood money that she stole and accumulated by slaughtering my people is being used to buy out low lifes… including American diplomats.. Turkey is soo disgusting that they are paying US to let hotels offer delivery packages for wealthy Turkish tourists to allow them deliver their babies while vacationing here.. that way their children can become automatic citizens… this is how manipulative and evil Turkey is and this is how corrupt US is to allow such filth and morally wrong acts to happen in this democratic country.  Turkey will do everything because she will defeated.. she will take any stride because she feels the pressure of losing the battle… one day she will get her share.. so badly that she will never be able to stand straight…

    do not doubt the power of love, will, determination and Christ ALP… no matter what, we will never stop fighting and you will see that one day Turkey will bow to the Armenians and all those who she MURDERED in cold blood asking for forgiveness… no criminal goes without punishment.. no matter how long it takes…

    hand on to your tax money because you may not see it ever again…

    Gayane

  26. Alp, it is correctly called Asia Minor not eastern Anatolia which is a Turkish creation along with the other Turkish created myths that deny the genocide, claim a civil war happened, confiscated Armenian treasures and called them “ancient Turkish artifacts, and suggest that CUP had “no intent to kill, only to deport for security reasons.
     
    Time to be honest and end the fiction.  Your “national pride” is based on false history and stolen remnants of ancient cultures that existed and flourished long before Seljuks and Osmans “occupied” the lands of Asia Minor.  Turkey takes some pride in having shown humane tolerance of persecuted Jews ousted from other countries.  Another myth that hides a devil’s bargain.  Turkey has had the opportunity to show real humanity for the last 95 years by simply acknowledging the truth of the genocide and apologizing for the sins of her CUP predecessors but has chosen instead to lie to herself and the world and to use her “special relationship” with Israel to thwart Armenian justice.  Shame on Turkey.  Shame on Israel.  Shame on you Alp for your prejudice against Armenians.

  27. avatar Teylerian, Jr // August 3, 2010 at 5:03 pm // Reply

    Listen, Alp — What grades did you have at your school in English grammar? Don’t they teach you that geographic toponyms like ‘Western Armenia,’ just like newly-invented Turkish toponym ‘Eastern Anatolia,’ should be capitalized? Go learn. May I ask who ‘everyone,’ except for brainwashed uneducated Turks, knows that ‘Eastern Anatolia’ has existed on the world map before the creation of the Ottoman empire in the 15th century AD on the lands of indigenous peoples like Greeks, Assyrians, and Armenians? Who doesn’t know that these peoples  inhabited Asia Minor before intrusions into the area from Mongolian steppes and Altay mountains of your nomadic savage forefathers Seljuks and Mongols in 11-13th centuries AD? Might you know who lived in Western Armenia until the early 20th century when all non-Turks have been mass exterminated by your ‘civilized’ nation? No? They don’t teach these historical facts at Turkish schools? Because they’re inconvenient facts, aren’t they? Go learn that even during your filthy Ottoman empire that colonized ancient Armenians, the six vilayets they inhabited for more than 3000 years were called ‘Armenian vilayets.’ Do you know that? Go learn. It’s been the historical Western Armenia where the Turks committed the crime against humanity: the genocide that wiped out all the traces of one of the most ancient civilizations inhabiting the area long before the world came to know who the nomadic Turks were. Look up in any non-Turkish history book and learn the truth. Or just type ‘The World Map by Roman geographer Claudius Ptolemy’ who lived in the 1st century AD and look up for ‘Armenia’ written just near the modern-day Lake Van. Then come back and argue with us, if you dare, OK?
     
    As for ‘Do you really think that you can pocket my taxes by this lawsuit in the name of “compensation”?,’ do you really think that your state can get away with mass murder of millions of ancient inhabitants of Asia Minor and Western Armenia and settle  on their lands without ever being punished for the crime of genocide?
     
    And please don’t’ give me (and, by the way, I’m an Armenian from Armenia not the US) this crap about impossibility to ‘compromise’ with the Armenian diaspora in the US, unlike the Armenians in Turkey and in Armenia. We don’t buy this cheap Turkish tactics of splitting the parts of ONE nation. We all have ONE cause, almost every Armenian family in or outside of Armenia is affected by murder, mutilation, starvation or deportation of their relatives at the time of annihilation of the Armenian race by the Turks. Diaspora Armenians are more sensitive towards the cause because they’re the descendants of those who barely escaped Turkish barbarity or were forcibly deported from Western Armenian provinces of the Ottoman empire. As for Armenians in Constantinople, we know based on the example of Hrant Dink what it means to be an Armenian in Turkey. It mean living in constant fear to disclose ethnic identity or faith or criticize the government for denying the Armenian genocide. Aren’t you familiar with your own Article 301 of the Turkish Penal Code? Go learn. By the way, many sources, including the Ottoman, estimated the number of Armenians before 1915 at about 2 mln people. Your Nazi-looking prime-minister recently threatened to deport (in the best Turkish tradition) 60-70,000 remaining Armenian in Turkey. Might you know as to what happened to the other 1 mln 940,000?

    As for waiting a little bit longer to see turkish diaspora gets stronger than you, young man, we could care less about turkish diaspora getting stronger or weaker. Our struggle to bring justice to the millions of innocent men, women, and children butchered by barbarian Turks long ago entered the phase of international recognition of the genocide by the civilized world and enforcement of reparations on Turkey as the murderer-sate according to international law. Whether you’re willing to pay pocket your taxes by this lawsuit or other measures will be irrelevant when your state will be internationally acknowledged as genocide perpetrator state. Until then, go learn history…

  28. Turkey has not fulfilled provisions of the Treaty of Lausanne, under which she was obliged to return the property of subjects of the Ottoman Empire, especially the Armenians whom Turkey massacred and deported in millions. It’s unlikely that the U.S. can make Turkey accountable to the full extent, nevertheless, a U.S. court may rule that Turkey has violated international law, which will (1)attract the world nations’ added attention to Armenians’ demand for justice; and (2)gradually bring to the fore other provisions of the Treaty of Lausanne and Treaty of Kars that Turkey has violated. Both Treaties have already expired, and Turks are nervous because no legal agreement exists that would prevent Armenians form demanding reparations and land restitution for genocide. Punishment for the heinous Turkish crime is approaching… slowly but surely.

  29. Hello people..I’m very sorry to day this, but it’s time for a brutal reality check:  a world (yes, ours) that allows a country to invade and destroy Iraq, or allows Israel to destroy Palestinian lives, homes and olive groves every single day, and allows Turkey to burn 4000 Kurdish villages to the ground in the last 30 years is highly unlikely to put any pressure on anyone regarding events that date back to WWI. So, forget ‘the world’ and what it thinks or does. Bring on the lawsuits and let the courts decide. As of late, even Turkish courts have decided in favor of returning properties to Armenians, Greeks and others, so there is hope in Turkey itself.  No one can turn the clock of history backwards, whether it’s for one day or a thousand years. That’s an unproductive, fantasy approach. I guarantee you that very few of you are ready to pick up and move to the outskirts of Erzerum or Malatya to start farming, so stop dreaming of something you will never, ever do. However, there are a great many people in Turkey who know, understand and support Armenians, if for no other reason than to apologize to their former neighbors, friends and countrymen. Let’s not forget that as of 1915, there were as many Armenians as Turks in Turkey….and that many of those ‘Turks’ were not even historically true Turks at all, but rather diluted by a thousand years of comingling with the non-Turkish majority.  Heck, the sultans were not even truly Turkish – as all their mothers, grandmothers and wives were non-Turks!  So, let’s hold our insults…and realize that there has been a very large divide and conquer mentality that was used to destroy Turkey, and steal its land and riches. Sadly, there’s no way to change those facts, but we can all work to repair and overcome the damage that has been done to the best of our abilities.    

  30. Jews turned the clock of history backwards, so did the Germans, so did many Balkan nations and former Soviet republics. History repeats itself, as we all know, except for Karekin here. Go tell the Jews that working for revitalization of their historical homeland for 2000+ years was ‘unproductive, fantasy approach.’ See what they’ll tell you. My family is ready to return to Sasun and I know many others who will. Armenians will figure out what to do with the restituted lands, don’t you worry… Are there really ‘a great many people in Turkey who know, understand and support Armenians, if for no other reason than to apologize to their former neighbors, friends and countrymen?’ Very well, then presumably it should be easier for their denialist state to extend an official apology for the state-planned and executed crime against humanity. The murderer-state must apologize, the beneficiary government must apologize, while apologies from ordinary people are also important but they don’t have the legal weight, only humanistic. Let’s not forget that as of 1915 it was the government of Ottoman Turkey represented by CUP that gave orders at forced expulsions and mass murders of Armenians. Whether the government of the Ottoman Turkish state was comprised of ‘true’ Turks (who are true Turks, I wonder: Seljuks and Mongol nomadic savages?) or African Pygmies makes absolutely no difference: whoever they were ethnically they perpetrated a heinous crime against my people and their beneficiary government must apologize and pay reparations and land restitution for wiping out Armenians from their historical provinces. Period. We could care less about what ethnicity the mothers, grandmothers and wives of sultans were. Sultans, just like the CUP, represented the supreme authority of the Turkish state. They committed a indescribable crime and their successive denialist government must admit it. Period. Whether ‘there has been a very large divide and conquer mentality that was used to destroy Turkey, and steal its land and riches’ does not concern the Armenians. Armenians were not the ones who had ‘divide and conquer mentality that was used to destroy Turkey, and steal its land and riches.’ Armenians were far from the Balkan theater, far from the Arab theater. There has been no centrally-planned, armed and mobilized resistance on their part. Even of a few Armenians revolutionaries wanted to bring freedom to their enslaved nation, the whole 2 mln innocent men, women, children and the elders should not have been exterminated in the most barbarous Turkish ways. At the end of this extermination it was the Turks themselves who destroyed Western Armenia, stole our lands and riches. There are several ways to change those facts and then all work to repair and overcome the damage that has been done: first, Ottoman Turkey is gradually accepted by world parliaments and organizations as a genocide-perpetrator state; second, when international recognition by major power players is complete, or even before it, Turkey will sued for committing genocide; third, the prescribed punishment for committing genocide is not subject to the limitations of time and place; and forth Turkey will be held responsible for providing financial reparations and land restitution to the victim-nation. Those who think it’s a fantasy, let them take a closer look at what’s happening in process of international recognition of the Armenian genocide, EU’s unambiguous indication of impossibility for Turkey ever becoming a member-state, and the world’s shifted attitudes toward Turkey and its geopolitical role on the region. At the end, winners are those who BELIEVE in the cause, not those who are subservient to defeatist, self-deprecating mentality.

  31. BRAVO Shakaryan jan.. BRAVO.. well said.. excellent..

    Karekin.. inch asem… same Karekin as ever before.. with your missed up ideas and mixed feelings.. you are in the middle struggling in your confused head.. pick a side and stick to it.. it will be easier for you..

    If you are fighting for a cause you DO NOT BELIEVE in 100%, the end result will always be zero, zilch, nada, emptiness.. you have to BELIEVE wholeheartedly in our cause to be able to pursue happiness, justice and victory.. having doubts about this and how it will never get you anywhere is not the way you should go.. we have told you million times, the way you view matters is completely off the record… you live in your own world and try to convince others of your own enigma state of mind.. ..

    We have one goal and that is….. as a nation, as a culture, as one body to work together and support each other.. to get the Ottoman Turks Genocide of the Western and Eastern Armenians recognized and receive justice for all those who perished in cold calculated killings…including land, money, artifacts, most everything and anything that was stolen from us ILLEGALLY and WITH BLOODY HANDS..

    So I send positive vibes to all those who are going to fight for this in court.. May God Bless them and give them strength to accomplish what HE put then on this planet to accomplish… despite all the obstacles they may face.. including the traitor Obama…

    Gayane

  32. Your psychotic game of censor-post deletion is getting pretty old. Just how long will it take for you people on the editorial board to GROW UP? I can tell you that by your cowardly actions alone, I’m scaring the s**t out of all of you.

    A word of advice…you can only supress the truth for just so long before it breaks through and you can neither control it nor stop its jugernaut!!

  33. Robert (the turk)

    I am just simply flabbergasted that you did not enroll in a comedy school somewhere because you are HILLARIOUS sir.. absolutely out of this world hillarious..

    thank you for making me laugh my A****** off… i swear.. you should change careers.. because your comments are ridiculous and funny at the same time..

    Coward is not the Weekly Editors .. coward is your state for hiding behind the money stolen from my ancestors.. coward is people like your who can’t stop in their genocidal state of mind and move into into the 21st century.. where justice and truth prevails over lies, murder, denial and brainwashed individuals such as yourself..please.. you are getting more and more aggressive.. speaking of ” genocidal”…

    Gayane

  34. Robert, why are you the only one that the editors seem to be censoring.  I don’t hear any one else complaining.  I think you are playing a game with us.

  35. avatar Grish Begian // August 4, 2010 at 8:18 pm // Reply

    Robert,
    Ask your Zaman newspaper why they do not publish my comments!! yes penal code “301″ do not exist in “The Armenian Weekly” news!!
    There is a long way for Turks to get into humanity, but I have to admit, that they are improving yearly bases!!

  36. Look Gayane, I don’t have to ‘pick a side’…my DNA did that for me, but that doesn’t mean I have to subscribe to fantasy.  Please – get a grip – the world doesn’t care about Ottoman history or foibles or criminality towards Armenians…if it did, this discussion would not exist. The ‘world’ would have corrected those wrongs a long time ago. As for comparisons with Jews, once again…get a grip!  The world and specifically the US feels no guiilt whatsoever towards Armenians about the genocide or for supporting a government (s) that deny the genocide. Quite to the contrary, they go out of their way to appease both Turkey and Israel, and not ‘offend’ them by using the word genocide. Is this for real? Yes, and you know it very well. If the US had even the remotest semblance of feelings for Armenia or Armenians, there is alot they could have done over the last 95 years…but pay attention….they haven’t done anything as simple as using a word!  If that doesn’t tell you something, then I don’t know what will. Time to get real, both w/ your expectations, demands and fantasies. In fact, take a lead from Armenia itself and stop issuing ‘demands’… and try a different approach. I’ve said this before to immense criticism, but the clinical definition of insanity is repeating the same action over and over again and expecting to get a different result. If you want a different result, perhaps it is time to change tactics, strategies and thinking….the point being, no matter how just your demand might be, if it’s not delivered well or properly, it just backfires. Let’s find a new way, because ther are many ways to skin a cat….not just one way.

  37. Good Morning Karekin..(better way to address another fellow Armenian …than LOOK Gayane … right?? )

    Do qo nuyn eshnes qshum…

    I just telling you stop preaching to others of things that you can’t even wrap your mind or hands around…..in addition, your “brotherly love” toward the Murderous state is a fantasy in itself..and for your own information, Armenians around the world are using OTHER avenues..

    have a wonderful day…

    Gayane

  38. My biggest concern is that, by recieving compensation from Turkish government,are we giving up the ownership of our ancestral lands? What if the Turks said,’ Look you’re paid off and got nothing to claim for anymore. YOUR land is now MY land.’

    We need to be very cautious as to what we’re getting into. Hope this class action suit doesn’t backfire and haunts us for good. Mr.Geragos and his associates should look into this matter.

  39. Sorry, but the idea that someone, anyone, such as ‘the world’,…is going to hand over to Armenians, on a silver platter, places like Erzerum, Ani, Van, Bitlis, Moush, etc, etc, etc,, that have not been under Armenian sovereignty for a thousand years is just a bit delusional. Get used to it.  Firstly, ‘the world’ does not control Anatolia – have you noticed that little tidbit?  I’d also love to know why any discussion of reality sets people off into bizarre fits of nastiness here?  Why is delusional, fantasy discussion the norm?  I can understand wishful thinking, but this does not constitute an intelligent discussion of the historical facts on the ground. Yes, Armenians lived there for thousands of years, and yes they were subjected to a genocide and exiled from their land…and yes, that is disconcerting, but this is history. And very much unlike the Jews, Armenians DON’T have a major empire on their side or a multi-billionaire like Baron de Rothschild who could attempt to bribe a sultan and buy Palestine for cash (or any part of Turkey).  Once again, I am left wondering why every single piece of energy isn’t being devoted to shoring up today’s Armenia, which by the way, is still in very dire straits, with a poverty rate that is shameful. Today’s living people in Armenia and Karabagh should be our priority. This doesn’t mean you forget the past, but you cannot and should not sacrifice the present for a memory or a fantasy that cannot come true.    

  40. Karekin, I never like when you get on your soap box and pontificate about how Armenians should “get real.”  I find it condescending.  However,  I often see the kernel of truth in your ‘healthy dose of realism’ and I agree with you wholeheartedly that we need to focus much more on shoring up Armenia, which is in great need.
     
    Just remember that there are many ways to fight for Armenian dignity and justice.  There is a need for the dreamers as well as the pragmatists.  Dreamers help us imagine beyond the limits that the disheartened naysayers can’t see past; while the realists help the dreamers focus their energies on that which is do-able.  All things working together, all things in moderation…especially pessimistic pragmatism and self-deprecation.

  41. Firstly, places like Erzerum, Ani, Van, Bitlis, Moush, etc, have not been under Armenian sovereignty for 500+ years (when they have been colonized by the Ottoman Turks in 15th century AD up until 1915) not a thousand years. Secondly, Armenians don’t except the world to ‘hand over’ what belongs to them on ‘a silver platter.’ Armenians want the world to acknowledge the heinous crime committed against them. Is it too much to ask? Why is the demand for justice and acknowledgment of a crime that by definition is a crime against humanity, ‘delusional’? If one’s mother is raped and butchered in front of oneself by a neighbor, would demanding justice be ‘delusional’ or be qualified as ‘wishful thinking’? Why the demands of Germans that have been apart for almost 50 years are not considered ‘delusional’? Why longing for a nation-state in the case of the Jews who lost Judea more than 2000 years ago is not ‘delusional’? Even in the case of the new Republic of Armenia, would longing for an independent nation-state during the Soviet times be considered ‘delusional’? Even if it were such, as the proponents of ‘intelligent discussion’ here suggest, haven’t they witnessed ‘the historical facts on the ground’ in that eastern Armenia has in fact regained its territory and independence? Haven’t they witnessed ‘the historical facts on the ground’ in that another part of the nation, Artsakh, has also regained its territory and independence? After all, we are people, not speechless sheep subserviently following the executioner to the slaughterhouse. Thirdly, the world indeed ‘does not control Anatolia’ (by Anatolia I understand Western Armenia or Eastern Asia Minor: this is what’s been historically known to the world), but did the world control all former Soviet republics, all former Yugoslav republics, modern-day Kosovo, Abkhazia, South Ossetia, East Timor, Eritrea, etc, etc, etc.? After all, did the world control the American colonies when they broke loose from the metropolis? What kind of eerie logic one should have to suggest that ‘every single piece of energy be devoted to shoring up today’s Armenia and Karabakh,’ on the one hand, while conforming to the ‘historical fact’ that Western Armenia is lost forever? Wouldn’t Armenia and Karabakh have been considered as ‘lost forever’ had we exchanged these views, say, in 1978 at the peak of Soviet imperial might? How can one advocate to shore up today’s Armenia if only 30 years ago his kind wouldn’t even believe that territory and independence would someday be ‘handed over’ to Armenians? Then go believe that Armenia is still part of the Soviet empire, why bother? In this world not only buying lands for cash is possible, as in the case of the Jews, but many other methods that Armenians employ. Besides, it seems that limited intellectual prowess of some commentators here doesn’t allow them to admit that had there not been all-national aspirations of the Jewish people to restore the homeland, there would be no Baron de Rothschilds to attempt to buy it, not the other way round. Jeez…

  42. avatar Teylerian, Jr. // August 6, 2010 at 12:52 pm // Reply

    Karekin, might you know where ‘a major empire’ that was on the Jews’ side or a multi-billionaire like Baron de Rothschild’ were when 6 mln Jews were subjected to the horrors of the Holocaust? Isn’t, according to your logic, having a major power center or multi-billionaires a panacea to all national problems?

  43. Teylerian,
    firstly do not use this cheap “english level” argument to criticize me. I don not assert my english is all correct nor do I care what you think about it.
    Several times in your “cultural-historical” analysis, you say “go learn”. Believe me there is nothing for me to learn from your writing, you know why? Because you ALWAYS ALWAYS talk about the same things. Whatever the subject is your response remains always the same. An ordinary guy, who knows nothing about armenians, turks, ottoman empire etc. can write an essey which contains everything you wrote just by skimming this internet adress for 2 hours.
    Moreover, you think that every armenian has ONE cause. I personally know several armenians who DO NOT bear a grudge to the turks who do not share same ideas with them, unlike you. This is true, your severe intolerance to different thoughts about history is unique.
    This lawsuit is just a show you designed to console yourself. 2 days ago, there was a news telling that christian syrians turned back to their homeland in Mardin 30 years after they forced to leave. I can honestly apologise from them because of my government’s VERY wrong policy towards them.
    But I never apologise from you (personally): BECAUSE you only try to politicize your history; BECAUSE what you really want is not peace but only revenge; BECAUSE if you have the chance you will do anything to make us suffer. You hate people who you haven’t had any contact in your lifetime. And this is hopefully unique to you American diaspora, not the whole Armenians…

  44. Wow.. Alp.. and you call Teleryan someone who does not want peace and only revenge when you come here and voice your outrageous and ridiculeous cries of how we should wait and see the Turkish diaspora growing stronger and how Armenian Diaspora is nothing like Armenians in Armenia and Turkey…you don’t think  these words are of someone who is speaking out of hate and revenge??? PLEASEEEEE.. you should pay attention how to approach us vs spewing your venom..

    Frankly my dear, you need to apologize along with your govt for everything that your state put us through.. everything that your state did to my ancestors.. such nerves to come in here and accuse us of not knowing our own history ……have you lost your mind? (whatever it is left from the filth your state has been feeding you and your kind?)…

    Such ignorance….but know this ALP.. the statement of …..and this is hopefully unique to you American Diaspora not the whole Armenians… is a perfect example of your hatred toward the Diaspora but unlucky you.. we are NOT GOING ANYWHERE… I can promise you that.. SIR or MADAM…

    Gayane

  45. My apologies for the misspelled name.. I meant to type Teylerian…Please forgive the error..

    Thank you
    Gayane

  46. avatar Teylerian, Jr. // August 7, 2010 at 12:23 pm // Reply

    Alp,

    Your level of command in English has nevertheless allowed you to put ‘Eastern Anatolia’ in capital letters and ‘western armenia’ in plain. We easily recognize such cheap Turkish tricks, believe me, Armenians know the Turks better than anyone else in the world… I only cared about your minimizing the historical importance of Western Armenia by such a cheap trick and not about what you think of my remark. Your opinion is the least I could care about in my life, believe me.
     
    About ‘go learn.’ It appears that you might also have an English comprehension problem: I never suggested you learn from MY writings. I referred you to non-Turkish and non-Armenian historico-geographical sources, Map of Ptolemy being just one of them. You know why Armenians ‘ALWAYS ALWAYS talk about the same things?’ Because your state ALWAYS ALWAYS denies these things. Had your nation found the courage to accept what the world knows about the race annihilation of the Armenians in Ottoman Turkey, Armenians wouldn’t ‘ALWAYS ALWAYS talk about the same things.’ Don’t you get that? Or you just pretend as if nothing happened to almost 2 mln Ottoman Armenians inhabiting their lands for millennia before being wiped out by the Turks?

    Further, and this I believe is a part of your English comprehension problem, Armenians’ bearing no grudge to ordinary Turks and Armenians’ fighting for the cause of international recognition of the Turkish crime are two VERY different things. I bear no grudge toward ordinary Turks myself, but I bear grudge towards your denialist state that for 95 years avoids justice, historical truth, morality, and the need for apology to the Armenian nation for a crime against humanity that the preceding Ottoman government has committed against us. Twisting and turning the historical facts that the world governments and international organizations are accepting as fact of genocide, is one of the methods that your government employs. It’s not about having different thoughts about an issue, it’s about denying the issue by interpreting it to Turkey’s advantage with the aim of avoiding responsibility for the crime. Do you understand the difference?
     
    This lawsuit is not ‘a show we designed to console ourselves.’ In fact, Armenians were talking about going on lawsuits against Tutrkey for a long time. Such lawsuits are long overdue. If Turkey avoids repenting and extending apologies for exterminating innocent race, than we’re left with no other option as to make your state to acknowledge what the civilized world already knows. You leave us no other choice.
     
    It’s also cynical of you, to say the least, to apologize to the Syrians, but neglect the fact that your Ottoman governments have wiped out every trace of Assyrian, Greek, and Armenian civilizations inhabiting Asia Minor by means of most barbarous extermination of millions of men, women, children, and the elders. If you consider yourselves ‘civilized nation’ why can you apologize to one ethnic group and deny apology to the millions of other innocent people butchered by your forefathers in cold blood? You know why you can’t do this? Because the Armenian cause bears international legal reponsibility and because it will re-affirm what your state essentially represents of itself: murderer, intolerant towards ethnic and religious minorities, xenophobic, and pan-Turanic in that it’d rather wipe out non-Turkic ancient nations instead of incorporating them in the society. By a simple look at what’s happening to the Kurds nowadays one can confirm this.
     
    Lastly, I don’t give a damn if you never apologize to me personally. I don’t need your apology. Armenians need an apology from your state becasue your state is the beneficiary of preceeding Ottoman governments. As for politicizing our history, if you think modern-day Armenians are doing this, what can you say about non-Armenian witnesses who saw Turkish barbarity in 1915-1921? What about genocide survivors’ accounts? What about your own martial court verdicts condemning the extermination of the Armenians by the Young Turks? What about a wealth of scholarly accounts on the issue? What about resolutions of world parliaments, international organizations, advocacy groups, lawyers, historians, provincial governments, Nobel Prize laureates (including your own Orhan Pamuk)? Are they all politicizing the history and are stupid and only Alp from Turkey is a wise guy?
     
    Armenians want peace, Alp, revenge is not a Christian postulate in contrast to Jemal Pasha’s call for revenge repeated three times right before the massacres and forced deportations of Ottoman Armenians started, as if it was the Armenians who brought defeats for Turkey in the Balkan fronts or caused her to lose most of the empire. Christians believe that no revenge is so complete as forgiveness. And we’d like to forgive, but the only thing we need for that and have peace is your state’s apology for the crime. Until your state offers us an apology we’d have to make it suffer, but believe me it’s not the suffer than my nation has endured in the hands of your savage forefathers: my whole nation in Western Armenia has been exterminated in the most barbarous forms leaving us, the descendants, with a dee-seated psychological burden, a victim complex that we struggle to overcome. Can you understand this or you only can see the world through the prism of Turkish nation’s interests?
     
    I don’t hate ordinary Turkish people, I abhor your State. Abhorring your state is common to all Armenians, whether in Armenia or the Diaspora. We are ONE nation, having ONE tragic fate, and ONE just cause, however you try to spew venom you won’t succeed, make no mistake…

  47. AMEN Teylerian… Well said…

    Thank you for putting in such way that is EASY for ALP to understand… considering the English language may be a roadblock for him or her…

    I am surprised to see such hatred and anger is in so many Turks… we continueously say that it is the Turkish state that needs to fix the history’s most bloodiest episode that happened to the Armenians.. yet the state herself is made up of up of not only the govt officials of course but also people like Alps, Roberts, and Murats… these people are the cancer of the society that may never vanish and hopefully will not multiply…it is absolutely sickening…

    I would like to repeat what Teylerian said… WE ARE ONE NATION, HAVING ONE TRAGIC FATE AND ONE JUST CAUSE…….good luck breaking this bond Alps, Roberts and Murats of the world…

    God Bless my people and Armenia…

    Gayane

  48. avatar Vanessa Kachadurian // August 9, 2010 at 8:55 pm // Reply

    Grish Begian
    Zaman is actually owned by Fethullah Gulen who is exiled in the USA because of tryng to overthrow the secular system in Turkey.  He is very locked in with the AKP party (Erdogan and Gul are both in the Gulen Movement)  Gulen manages his worldwide empire in the poconos, Pa area with the help of the CIA.  His estimated worth is $25 Billion, in schools (yes the Gulen movement manages 120 Charter Schools in the USA), media and politics.  As Gulen states “you must work in the arteries of the system”      September 12th is an election for Turkey, they are voting on many things 1 is the ban on hibjabs.  Lets see what happens. 

  49. A man without a past – is a man without a future. Armenia was violated, it was premeditated ethnic cleansing – the brutality of which will stain the souls of any man and woman with a conscience and a shred of humanity left. Turkey has NOT learnt from the cesspool of their lies and denial – as we all know – from the great expulsion and crimes against the Greeks in Smyrna ………in the 50′s……..and, if that lesson went unpunished, the Turks were further emboldened to seize the opportunity of violating, raping, murdering, plundering and stealing from the Greek Cypriots – stealing their land, homes, property, destroying their churches, plundering their historic identity since 1974…AGAIN. AGAIN.AGAIN. Have the Turks changed since ? No. If they had repented, asked forgiveness, made ammends – and been part of reconstructing a positive future, no Armenian or Greek - who had their roots in what is now Turkey, since  THOUSANDS of years – would have refused reconcilliation.
    From 1915 to 1975 – NOTHING has changed. Armenia MUST demand compensation,

    in honor of men like Hrant Dink, while the criminal silencing of more Armenians are an ongoing “policy” of this Erdogan criminal enterprize.

    How fortunate, that there are attorneys of Geragos’ mould and integrity.

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