Theriault: The ‘Neutrality’ of Genocide Denial: A Response to Pam Steiner
By Henry Theriault // Posted on June 4, 2011 in Opinion // 279 Comments // 
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For Steiner to refuse to characterize the historical facts correctly, according to the UN definition of genocide, is for her to give de facto support to deniers.
It was with hope that turned to concern that I read Harut Sassounian’s crisp and clear account of the March 31 UCLA event featuring Hasan Cemal, the grandson of Cemal Pasha, with commentators Pam Steiner, the great granddaughter of Ambassador Henry Morgenthau, and Richard Hovannisian, renowned UCLA historian of modern Armenian history. Hasan Cemal’s willingness to use the term “genocide” accurately in reference to “the events of 1915” was at once a meaningful step forward for him, compared to somewhat less direct statements of his in the past, and supports genuine progress for Turkey and Turks on this issue. Indeed, as I witnessed first-hand as a participant in the April 2010 Ankara conference on the Armenian Genocide, more and more Turks are willing to confront their history vis-à-vis Armenians forthrightly and honestly. At least for Turks willing to take a principled stand on this issue, the word “genocide” is no longer taboo in Turkey.
Pam Steiner at UCLA
My optimism, however, was all too fleeting. If Hasan Cemal’s ideas were evolving forward, Pam Steiner’s seemed to be regressing. For she made a conscious point, which she has since defended in a response to Sassounian in the California Courier, to avoid under all circumstances use of the term “genocide” to characterize the fate of Armenians in the Ottoman Empire. As I read this, I felt as if I had been transported back a decade in time to the ill-conceived muddle of political manipulations known as the Turkish-Armenian Reconciliation Commission (TARC), and even further back, to a time when denial of the Armenian Genocide was actually credible and those committed to truth faced an uphill battle. With a few words—or omission of one word—Steiner seemed to want to throw us all back there again, and to erase decades of progress on this issue, progress that has in the past five years begun to bear quite a bit of fruit in Turkey itself.
Steiner rationalized her avoidance of the term “genocide” by stating that she is now functioning as a “facilitator” of a “dispute” between Armenians and Turks. Because of this, she must remain neutral and avoid any statements that would suggest she is partial to one side. There are a number of problems with this self-analysis. First, it is impossible to be “neutral” in the sense of not picking a side when facing a disagreement between one group that maintains a true view of the world and one group that maintains a false one. As others and I have long pointed out, the goal of genocide denial is simply to prevent a final recognition of the historical truth of a genocide, to introduce doubt. This is what Bradley Smith, an infamous Holocaust denier, tried to do with such things as his Duke University student newspaper advertisement denying the Holocaust. Once denial is taken as seriously as the true facts, deniers have won, because recognition will be perpetually prevented. Denial wins merely by being an equal party to discourse on a genocide, while truth wins only with the defeat of denial. Thus the relationship between deniers and those committed to historical truth is not symmetrical, and a symmetrical neutrality as adopted by Steiner does not fit it correctly. For her to refuse to characterize the historical facts correctly, according to the UN definition of genocide, is for her to give de facto support to the deniers. In this way, she will not facilitate better relations, but will instead facilitate (make easier) denial of the Armenian Genocide. I am sure that is not her intent, but that is the effect of her approach.
This lack of true neutrality is perhaps evident in Steiner’s call, as reported by Sassounian, for “Armenians to acknowledge that ‘the Turkish people [who] suffered horrendously during World War I…need and deserve acknowledgment for that’” and that Armenians need to “consider acknowledging Turkish suffering before they receive an acknowledgment for theirs.” It is difficult to understand how someone who is truly neutral in a situation of one-sided historical violence would understand neutrality to consist of minimizing the suffering of one group and aggrandizing the suffering of the other. This is especially true when the suffering of the former group was caused by the latter but not vice-versa. How can Turkish suffering due to completely distinct issues that did not result from Armenian agency at all be seen to balance Armenian suffering due directly to Turkish violence? With logic like this, there is no end to what each group must appreciate of the other’s suffering, to the point of absurdity. The issue that stands between Armenians and Turks is the Armenian Genocide and its denial. Other issues should not be used as a shield to hide this fact and prevent it from being the focus. Whatever other suffering Armenians and Turks have done is not what is causing difficulties in Armenian-Turkish relations. When Steiner suggests that Armenians should pretend it is, she not only loses her neutrality but erects a significant obstacle to progress in Armenian-Turkish relations.
Second, Steiner’s approach shows great disrespect for and is potentially harming the growing number of Turkish people who recognize the Armenian Genocide as historical fact. There is no general “Armenian-Turkish dispute.” On the contrary, many Armenians and Turks see the facts the same way. There is a disagreement between many Armenians, some Turks, and many members of third-party groups and those Turks who refuse to recognize the historical fact of the Armenian Genocide. This is not an ethnic conflict, but a conflict over basic ethical principle. The sides are not determined by ethnicity, but by orientation to historical fact.
Third, this begs the question: Why does Steiner believe that the key to improved Armenian-Turkish relations depends on Turks who are committed to the denial of the Armenian Genocide? Why does she not work with the growing number of Turks who recognize the historical truth and have an ethical commitment to improving their society and its relations with Armenians, inside and outside Turkish borders? Why not work with them as the basis for better Armenian-Turkish relations overall—some of us are certainly doing that. It is the progressive Turks currently facing their history who might be the real key to the future of Turkey and Armenian-Turkish relations.
Fourth, if Steiner is right that there is some potential for improved relations in working with Turks who deny the Armenian Genocide, rather than (or in addition to) Turks who recognize it, then two points still follow: On the one hand, it would seem crucial to include Turks who recognize the Armenian Genocide as part of any group of Turks involved in any conciliation project. Not only will that relieve the unfair burden that would be placed on Armenians to advocate for basic historical truth, but it will also offer resistant Turks a model for behavior and thought that will be positive for them and will show them that it is possible to maintain Turkish identity and dignity while recognizing the Armenian Genocide. On the other hand, if Steiner supports the status quo of denial and “dispute,” in effect progress will become impossible unless Armenians sacrifice historical truth to appease Turks who deny the genocide. This might result in tamer relations between the groups, but at the cost of the dignity and well-being of Armenians. Have Armenians not lost enough through the genocide? Do they now have to accept this final burden to allow many Turkish individuals who are behaving in a psychologically and ethically irresponsible way to feel good about themselves without actually doing what is right? Such an approach constitutes harm and insult to Armenians, and brings home to them once more that the Turkish state and society have gotten away with genocide so completely that the only thing left to do for Armenians is smile and stop complaining.
But this suggests that, in the end, such a process will be good for these deniers of genocide. Thus, the fifth problem: Steiner’s approach actually harms the very Turks who remain denialists and agree to work with her. In effect, this approach is what is sometimes termed “enabling.” By allowing genocide denial to stand as legitimate in the process of dialogue, what Steiner is doing is enabling genocide denial among Turks who for various reasons cannot or will not face the historical truth. A far better approach would be to use the process to help those Turks overcome their issues. Perhaps they deny the genocide out of a fragile sense of national identity that maintains itself in the face of a world in which Turkey has slipped from a major power to a secondary one; to a power inferior to the United States, Russia, China, Japan, Britain, France, Germany, and many others; a power that has lost ground for more than a century. The process of dialogue and conciliation, especially if it involves Turks who recognize the Armenian Genocide, could help these deniers overcome their psychological blocks to recognizing the genocide, to teach them how to be proud of their identity while still recognizing its negatives–indeed, to build that identity in positive ways precisely by recognizing and dealing with its negatives, so that its goodness no longer would depend on denial and so be a false delusion, but would be a true goodness that these people themselves have attained. Otherwise, these deniers will leave any process just as they entered it, living in a fragile, tenuous world of denial and fear of the truth. Whatever they might think about the way Steiner will help them maintain their denialist front, they will not truly benefit from such a process.
There is an ethical dimension to this issue. One of the great ethicists in the Western philosophical tradition, Immanuel Kant, maintained that all rational beings have a responsibility to treat all other rational beings as ends in themselves, not merely means to our own ends. This is one of the important bases of modern human rights: All persons have inherent dignity and worth. Kant held that it was always wrong to lie to others, even when we would do so to spare their feelings, make them more comfortable, etc. People have the capacity to deal with the truth responsibly and fully, and to shield them from it is actually an assault on their dignity, it is to lower them to sub-person status, to assert that they are not able to live like persons. We can apply this principle to genocide deniers: We have a responsibility to speak the truth to them. When Steiner suppresses her own recognition of the Armenian Genocide because it will offend or alienate Turks who are deniers, what she is really doing is treating them as lesser beings not capable of acting and thinking like people. This is no basis for improved Armenian-Turkish relations or the future of genocide deniers as human beings. Genocide deniers are not children, they are people, and deserve to be treated as people. Meaningful facilitation and conciliation must start with acknowledgment of the facts as they exist, out of respect for all parties involved.
This is, of course, not just true of Turks. I was raised a U.S. citizen and inculcated into a simplistic American nationalist chauvinism as a young person. I had no interest in recognizing the negatives of U.S. identity or history—Native American genocides, racism, wars of aggression, imperial conquests, etc. There is much in American society that enabled me to continue with this attitude, but thankfully as an undergraduate and graduate student I came across people, books, and experiences that pushed me to confront reality as it actually was, the good and bad of the United States, with an unflinching eye. The process was not easy, but it has been, ultimately, very productive and has helped me become a person whom I hope helps improve the United States rather than perpetuating its flaws.
I conclude with a final reflection for Armenians. There is no doubt that Ambassador Morgenthau deserves praise for what he did and tried to do for Armenians during the genocide. There is also no doubt that members of his family have continued to support Armenians in positive ways since the time of the genocide. But that does not mean that Armenians have an obligation to accept unconditionally anything and everything a member of the Morgenthau family does. We have the right to challenge and dissent from Steiner’s approach if we choose to, and her family ties should have no bearing on our evaluation of her views and actions. In reality, of course, Steiner and others like her are members of the power elite of the United States and have access to resources, legitimacy, and connections that most Armenians—especially Armenian scholars and activists like me—do not have. We are never invited to run projects at Harvard, we cannot make our voices heard in high-level policy-making and decision-making circles. We must be aware of this and be vigilant about it. Position is not a substitute for ethical rightness, and we must resist the tendency beaten into us by centuries of violence, vulnerability, murder, rape, and destruction to embrace unconditionally any power that offers us some slight hope of rescue, support, a future. However desperate the situation of the Armenian Republic today is vis-à-vis Turkey, however much Armenians around the globe still struggle with the legacy of the genocide, we must face historical reality as well and not deny it: When we have trusted the power elites of the United States, the Ottoman Empire, and other states and societies, we have almost inevitably set ourselves up for harm and even destruction. If Steiner modifies her approach to facilitation to avoid the kinds of damage and danger to Armenians I have outlined above, then we have every reason to work with her. But if she maintains the problematic aspects, we must recognize the likely negative outcome of dialogue on those terms.
The saddest part of all this is to see Armenians sniping at each other, and putting their own personal feelings ahead of those of an entire nation, but I guess I should not notice such things. And worse, snarky comments are offered without even taking the time to understand some of the basics of of what is expressed here.
On top of that, many seem to express a level of shock and horror about 1915, as if it happened yesterday, but it did not. Let me also remind you…the Turks became our masters almost 1000 years ago…not just in 1915. That means we had a full millenium to change the situation, but we did not because we could not, and Armenians learned to live with it, just as they lived with the Arab conquest, the Greek conquest, the Roman conquest, etc.
More to the point, this discussion began with an analysis of Dr. Steiner’s work, and I still believe there is alot to criticize. In particular, I was trying to make the point that her entire premise is wrong, that when put on the scales, nothing that happened to Turks from 1915 onward can or should be compared to or equated with what befell the Armenians of the Ottoman empire. That is a false equivilancy. Hers is the tactic of an organized, methodical and powerful force of anti-Armenian propagandists. Get this straight…they are not only anti-genocide, they are fully anti-Armenian to the core, and as such are like wolves in sheep’s clothing, sent to placate Armenians and get them to buy-in to their farce. And, they enjoy nothing better than to see us argue endlessly over petty issues, while they work hard behind the curtains to change and rewrite history in their favor.
Those who think that the genocide of our people has not affected the generations that followed, have never gone to a doctor and been asked about hereditary illnesses in their family and have had to say that their family all died from murder, not cancer or heart disease. If you are the first generation born after the genocide, did you grow up surrounded by aunts and uncles and cousins and grandparents like all the odar children did? Or did you grow up with only the nuclear family within your own house? Did your surviving parents or grandparents carry fears all their lives? My mother never went out of her house without first looking up and down the street to see if turks were lurking. She and her sister had both been raped and the scars were still there when she died. Every scholar of note (perhaps not Thierault) will tell you that genocide does not end as long as there is denial. The trauma of genocide is transmitted generation after generation. It is highly offensive to read in these posts that”victimhood” is desired by us. It is insulting to tell us to “get over it, and get on with life.” Comments like these are an indication of insensitivity and ignorance.
Dear Perouz, First off I am sorry for your dearest mother and her sister to have gone what they have both gone through. Thank you for your justifiably sensitive post above as it hurts to most of our Armenian hearts and souls as well as mine. To the other poster above, there are psychological books written exactly for the survivors of the Armenian Genocide of how psychologically they are still victimized and affected. Because such a magnitude of a horrific barbarically perpetrated Genocide that wipes out a whole mass of an entire nation, the generations that comes after it cannot be non-affected by it; especially when the heirs of the survivors have only seen mega denials even the tables being turned back to them and having no closure whatsoever for 96 long years. I know of two sisters from where my father came from Palu, Eastern Turkey at the time, an entire caravan of women and their children were all thrown into a huge ditch they said in their book, and I know now that the huge ditch they were speaking of is the Shaaddin in Der El Zor where we now call it the equivalent of Auchwitz of the Haulocaust. The Shaaddin in Der El Zor has been our grand mother’s, great great mothers, sisters and brothers Auchwitz. Those two sisters from Palu knew about the upcoming final nail on the coffin and felt that that would’ve been their death sentence, they were able to hide away and the remaining women in the caravan who knew of their upcoming death yelled at the two sisters to tell the whole world of their sufferings. Tell the whole world they said of our sufferings. As justly you said, the Genocide is still ongoing; because Turkey is in full foce in denial and so denial is the last stage of the Genocide.
To Karekin above, Armenians yes lived with the horrible situation but always in agonyzing FEAR. They never knew when the Turks or the Kurds would lurk around and attack them, kill them, steal their most beautiful daughters and wives to rape them first and then keep or kill them. Their young boys which later they made ”Yenicheris” out of them, that is a whole army of stolen Armenian little boys. One can even tell from the poems Taniel Varoujan and Siamanto, how they lived in fear every day of their lives. I suggest that if you didn’t, read Raffi, Varoujan and Siamanto, although in Armenian and you’ll be much more understanding and hopefully sympathetic to our thoughts and feelings. That is my ultimate message.
Yes, I get the trauma of genocide, but let’s face some other important facts….the trauma of genocide and/or conquest did not seem to get in the way of Armenian success, either within the Ottoman empire or outside of it. The list of important and successful Armenians goes from Sinan to the Balyans, from Aznavour to Kirk Kerkorian, from Boghos Nubar to Calust Gulbenkian, from the Abdullahians to George Deukmedjian, from Vartazad Kazanjian to Alex Manoogian, from Aknouni to William Saroyan. There have also been millions to fill in the cracks who have made huge contributions to their adopted societies. Armenians are alot more resiliant and resourceful than others, because they’ve had to be. If there is a plus side to the horrors, it is that we have learned, both individually and as a people, how to bounce back from trauma, learn quickly and effectively, and reintegrate into a new society. As much as we might long for a lost vineyard in Malatya or Van, the reality is, none of us really wants to be there, any more than we want to be living 20 miles outside of Yerevan. This does not mean to suggest that anyone throw in the towel on recognition, acknowledgement, apology or honest reparations, but that we really might be better off to focus on the positives, of which there are many and on the living, many of whom in Armenia are less than fortunate and living very difficult lives. How do you think they feel when they hear that huge amounts of money is being spent on such things, when they are sitting in a freezing domig or stone hut, with no food and crying children? Where is your human compassion for their plight, which is very real and has that potential to damage Armenia for many decades? Yes, honor the genocide, remember the genocide, but please….put your time, energy and money into your living brothers and sisters in Hayastan. That is our future.
Karekin, You couldn’t be more wrong when you said above that we put our own feelings above our nation. When we do speak of our individual losses and feelings, we are all speaking exactly for our nation and for our cause for the Armenian Genocide to be recognized by Turkey and reparations made. That’s what you don’t seem to understand , do not or perhaps cannot understand. We speak about our losses in the same manner as the very few remaining Genocide survivors to be aware of the Genocide and make our points FOR OUR NATION’S SAKE. Remember we want more and more people (Turks or otherwise) to know of this and so our cause will be better known throughout the world as well as to the Turks who are still in denial. We want to move forward for our just cause for the Genocide to be accepted by the Turkish government and reparations to be made to the heirs of the Armenian Genocide.
Well said Perouz, Seervart:
The ridiculous strawman argument advanced by some posters that we are suffering from some sort of ‘victimhood’ is an amateurish attempt to divide us and dilute our focus: it doesn’t work and it won’t work.
I have been reading posts by our fiery women – Seervart, Perouz, Gayane, Katia K, Gina (…who did I miss ?), for close to a year and have yet to see even a hint of ‘victimhood’ in their prose. What I see is healthy, positive, and inspiring controlled rage and righteous indignation – a sustaining life-force that will spur our side onwards and onwards. It’s no academic feel-good exercise for an event that happened “long ago” (as Turks keep bloviating): Turks and Azeri are an existential threat to RoA and Artsakh – today, in 2011. The Genocide never ended: it is ongoing. They tried, again, to exterminate our people in Artsakh only 18 years ago: all you who keep bringing up “long ago” try to explain that.
Karekin, Are you kidding or joking? For numerous years now Armenians from all over the world, individuals like Kirkorian and the Hovnanian brothers and many others as well as the Armenian Relief Society and the Ramgavar Azadagan Miyoutyoun also, as well as individuals such as myself who for years adopted two orphans who’s fathers were killed in the Artsakh war adopted them, financially and contributed by sending money to them as well as sending clothing and money to Armenia with the appropriate persons, as well as personally going to malls for months along with the A.R.S. to collect monies for the Gumri’s and northern Armenia’s earthquake that occured in the late 1980′s. I know for fact that many Armenians from all around the world not only contributed financially to Armenia; but some went to war in Artsakh as well as we are constantly yelling on the websites as well as petitioning to the Armenian government and the oligarchs against corruption in Armenia and for democracy to reign in there, as well as speaking against the infamous protocols of 2009. Do you think you are the only one that speaks about it? Each and everyone of us, including myself as I stated above I have contributed with my money, my time and my words towards the betterment of our newly fledgling nation as well as the recognition of the Armenian Genocide and for reparations to be made to the heirs of the Armenians.
Karekin, I agree that the sniping is unproductive. However, dear, you bring it upon yourself when you suggest Armenians have no legitimate right to mourn the ongoing effects of the genocide today. Seervart and Perouz have described it well.
When you describe how our people “put up with” their conquerors for 1000 years, you fail to acknowledge that our people were “holding down the fort,” on their ancestral lands, not merely accepting the futility of their lives. You denigrate the efforts of the church to nourish their faith as a Christian sacrifice, despite the harshness of their lives. You demean the centuries of martyrdom our people lived in the form of “picking up their crosses” and going forward in life, long before the genocide. You ignore the impact that centuries of such a life have on a nation and how it shapes its character. After living 1000 years (and more) under such circumstances, do you really think 96 years can make a people forget who they are and what they lost, simply because they were forced into diaspora? You don’t understand the Armenian sense of survival and commitment.
Further, our diasporan lives only underscore our disconnection from our roots, while the lies that Turkey peddles enhances the quest for justice and our longing for what was lost. People like Pam Steiner and Ragnar can’t speak for us or teach us how to deal with Turks. Their advice is laughable and ill-informed. They lack appreciation of the God-given Armenian spirit of survival.
Dear Avery, Thank you and believe you me I have seen the very same righteous, inspiring, positive and healthy rage and the righteous indignation and your plight towards our just cause to go onward for our nation. At the very least to have closure from the Armenian Genocide; but above all for reparations to be made in terms of our sweet and long lost homeland of Western Armenia.
One more thought for Karekin. Our people are suffering in Haiastan today, by no small measure, due to the fact that Turkey got away with murder. The life of Armenians in Armenia will never be secure as long as she is surrounded by an enemy that has been allowed to prosper from its crime and feels no obstacle to prevent future immoralities for the sake of a pan-turanic dream. Need I spell out the present-day examples? The struggle for justice for the genocide is integral to the safety and security of Armenia. Otherwise, I am in agreement with you that we must do all we can to help Armenia.
Avery, you missed me (sob-sob…
). I believe Boyajian is female, too. But please refrain from praising, otherwise the professor, while admitting that he’s learnt a lot from Armenian commentators’ posts and gathered a lot of material from us for his upcoming book, will nonetheless taunt us for praising ourselves on these pages. Are we to praise Turks instead for their ancestors’ very “civilized”, “non-barbaric” mass crimes against humanity?
Karekin, I wonder how the Israelites or any Jew from around the world would take your views about forgetting towards their plight against the Nazi’s Haulocaust, before they had closure from the Haulocaust and before reparations were made to them in terms of billions of dollards to Israel and to every survivor from the Haulocaust, if you dared to have suggested to them that they should only concentrate on Israel’s well being rather than fighting justly towards their cause for the Haulocaust’s recognition and reparations. Even though they had closure from the ghetgo and billions of $$$$ paid to Israel and to the survivors of the Haulocaost, they are still fighting for more and more.
We must not only fight towards strengthening our fledgling country Armenia and the total and the just freedom of Nagorno Karapakh, Artsakh; but together we must see to it that recognition and reparations are made from the Armenian Genocide. They are all intertwined meshed in together, all three are our just cause to fight and fight we must until the end.
[“As much as we might long for a lost vineyard in Malatya or Van, the reality is, none of us really wants to be there, any more than we want to be living 20 miles outside of Yerevan.”]
None of us ? really ? did the gentleman conduct a scientific poll ?
In 1946-47 250,000 Armenians left their comfortable lives in the Diaspora and immigrated to war-ravaged hell of place called Armenian SSR to save her from being dismembered and absorbed into Georgia SSR and Azerbaijan SSR. I am quite sure a number greater than ‘none’ will go to Malatya, the beautiful shoreline of Lake Van, once the Turks have closed down their garrisons and left.
[“….many of whom in Armenia are less than fortunate and living very difficult lives. How do you think they feel when they hear that huge amounts of money is being spent on such things, when they are sitting in a freezing domig or stone hut, with no food and crying children? Where is your human compassion for their plight, which is very real and has that potential to damage Armenia for many decades?”]
Sorry to say, but these are the classic catch-phrase lines from Turk posters I see over and over again.
….by our fiery women – Anahit, Boyajian, Seervart, Perouz, Gayane, Katia K, Gina….
(sorry ‘Prof’: profuse, insincere apologies; couldn’t help myself praising our own; no self control – as you know, I am one of those inbred Armenians – genetically defective, missing self-control gene) [thanks for headsup Anahit]
Avery is, of course, absolutely correct. You cannot generalize about whether or not an entire population of exiled people would choose to return, or not, to their ancestral village if they had the option. And what does “return” mean? Millions of people own summer cottages, ski chalets, cabins in the woods, etc. that they don’t “live” in, but maintain for their own and their children’s use on a regular basis, as well as maintaining another place of daily residence. We are each entitled to the option of deciding to what extent we will, or will not, go “back home.” We need to start with the squatters being removed from our lands. We don’t need goons following us, ordering us off soil soaked with our blood, telling us our villages are not ”tourist spots.” We don’t go as tourists. We go as pilgrims, as owners. Return our stolen land and we will decide for ourselves what we will do with it. The villages in eastern turkey today are not the thriving, productive, populated communities that they were when our people lived there. All along the dirt roads in the mountains, there are many villages where people live out primitive, isolated lives in desperate poverty. If you go into the towns, you will see rows of small shops, and along the streets, in front of the shops, there are men sitting on chairs all day long; just sitting. Women? You’ll seldom see one.
“Every man dies, but not every man lives”
Thank you Avery for your passion!
Karekin, there is no glory in conforming into a model that is designed to benefit others. We minded our own business in 1915, we worked hard to make our communities prosperous in Western Armenia just like you are suggesting us to do now in Armenia. Our community in Western Armenia was at its pinnacle economically and culturally. We should all work hard to advance Armenia, there is no question about that. We cannot however, just shut up and put up with the Turkish and Azeri propaganda precisely for Armenia’s security… We have tried to shut up and put up in Western Armenia and it has failed miserably. It will be a terrible mistake to do that currently, in this age of information, because the Turks and Azeris are spending millions to win the war of the minds by propagating and promoting false information to advance their agendas. They are brainwashing entire countries by claiming that the Armenians were the aggressors in Karabagh. They are claiming that the Armenians massacred the Azeries! Does that sound familiar? They are cowards. The Azeris attacked the Armenians in Baku and Sumgait out of nowhere with the intention of ethnically cleansing our communities there. They started an all out war against Karabagh, which had no army to face them, and when they lost, they started coming up with all sorts of cowardly fabrications. You may chose to call our cry for justice “whining” (I can’t recall how you actually put it), but it is essential for our survival, because we have never left the red alert danger zone. Each Turkish rethoric needs to be answered by us. This is a different type of war. I am curious as to why you are not describing the barrage of Turkish propganda as “whining” also?
To get anywhere in life, one needs commitment and passion. Thankfully, we have no shortage in that in our general population. We need clearly articulated commitment and passion from our leadership however; and we should all work towards that end.
I am so glad, that Avery started the tradition of “praising” on this thread. We should praise each other every time merit warrants it. We should work on empowering our people in general. One of our mistakes has been to put foreigners with supposed qualifications above our own people. Qualifications and degrees do not guarantee ethical decency and integrity of character. We should “background check” all the specialists we are electing to invest time and value in. One of our shortcomings as a nation has been the inability to truly support and empower each other. Nations cannot sustain themselves when everyone wants to be chief and noone wants to be soldier. We should commit to change that.
To Katia
and to all who contribute soulfully to find solution for our cause
I like your article and others’ as well
Is this your proverb?
“Every one dies, But not every man lives”
I like something about the Egyptians…They never criticize their country…and don’t allow others to criticize them…and if they criticize…they make it with jokes… even recently after all the trouble you hear in their state… ’Arab Spring’…
The others can see our qualities,
But we don’t see our selves…
We have endless painters
In every Armenian home
They possess more than one art…gifted hands
One paints
Another has a nice voice…Soprano
Able to sing by multiple tongues…
Another able to write or chant poems
With extreme passionate soul
Another plays violin
Another piano
Another Kamancheh…Ode
Another and another
Every talented race…knows about us
“Thus…We should not allow others to criticize us for silly mistakes
and we should not criticize our selves
Because we are the least nation to do mistakes…”
Every one adores to marry our girls
From east till west
I wonder….do our Armenian men know about it
or they hide their feelings and ignore
and they ask our girls to be better yet do more…!
Sylva
OK. I never said anywhere that Armenians cannot or should not mourn the genocide. That’s just not true. But, the reality is that the mourning is, for all practical purposes, reserved for one day a year…Apr. 24. Since several of us enjoy drawing comparisons with the Jews, have you ever noticed how many Holocaust commemoration days they observe? There’s more than one on the calendar, so there is an official remembrance several times a year. We don’t have anything like that. The other major missing piece is that the US, Britain and others not only defeated Germany, but they have internalized their guilt about the Holocaust and their refusal to stop it while it was in progress. This led them to use the UN to set up Israel. Again, we have no parallel to those events. The political world abandonned Armenia, even if various charities worked with survivors, orphans and the needy. Armenia became the problem of the USSR and Turkey prevailed in Anatolia.
So, as much as I might agree, sympathize and support all of your goals and aims, under today’s current political landscape, on a practical level, I do not see us as having the clout to do much more than to help Armenia. Now, some people have turned the genocide into a full time job…good for them…I wish them every success, but have we seen any? And by the way, Turkish propaganda doesn’t fall into the category of ‘whining’, at all. If you analyze it closely, it is much more like bullying and designed to psychologically overcome Armenians and perpetuate their sense of victimhood. This is why I refuse to play into it or to become their willing victim. It is demeaning to wear the cloak of victimhood, especially at this point in time. We are no longer victims! Until the Armenian community can shake that mindset and act strongly, we will not be able to be effective in achieving any goals in a serious way.
Perouz said: ”We don’t go as tourists. We go as pilgrims, as owners. Return our stolen land and we will decide for ourselves what we will do with it.”
I agree!
You touched the greatest downfall of our nation from the beginning until today Katia, and that is we have and still do praise and assign foreigners on important tasks that has been and is still the wrong thing to do. No foreigner with whatever qualification can feel in their soul what we Armenians feel in our souls. As a matter of fact, no other nation understands us nor will have compassion for us. We haven’t in the past come to grips with this basic understanding and unfortunately our people continue to do it time and again. I even see it in our Churches and our centers how individual Armenians are so welcoming and kindly towards foreigners, yet yelling and uncompassionate and unwelcoming towards individual compatriot Armenians. It’s enough and it’s high time to start praising and loving each other instead of the “odars”. Our people must assign any important jobs and tasks to the ones that are patriotic Armenians and of course when the individual is qualified for such a position. I welcome your reminders Katia, good job!
I love your poem above Sylva, it’s so fitting and appropriate for our people who are truly very cultural, good politicians, inventors, builders, poets, singers; we are intelligent bunch of people yet we praise each other very little if that much. You are so right about the Egyptians as I still remember how they used to say to one another “Masr Omm El Donya”, Egypt is the mother of the world, and they believe it too. Indeed the Arabs are inventors and workers and builders, but we don’t see that in our Western Armenia where today the Turks left it the way it was when Armenians were annihilated and the remnants if they were lucky enough were able to escape from the 1915 Genocide. Not much else has been done in a soil where it has been said that it’s the cradle of civilization.
Btw; I happen to have a dramatic soprano voice myself, I have been a known poet reciter and I love sketching as I won an award once. It’s funny that you mentioned the traits of an Armenian and here we are all. I am not a psychologist like Boyajian nor a good poet like yourself, but each one of us has one, two or three traits from your list above, isn’t it dear? On another post you wrote a poem and you wished someone to sing it for you, I wish I could sing that piece and put it on you tube just for you Sylva jan.
))
As long as I cannot go back to my father’s village without fear; as long as I cannot open the door of the house my grandfather built; as long as I cannot pray at the remains of the altar of their village church; as long as I cannot pick the apricots from the trees my grandmother planted; as long as I cannot turn the soil in my mother’s vegetable garden, I am a victim of the Armenian Genocide. I am grateful that there are learned scholars who have made it their life work to expose the evil of genocide. They are aware, through many years of careful research leading to consensus, that the effects of genocide are carried down through many generations. They are now in a place of study in genocide research where they ignore the self-promotional ramblings of the uninformed.
[“If you analyze it closely, it is much more like bullying and designed to psychologically overcome Armenians and perpetuate their sense of victimhood.”]
We have analyzed it, and you are absolutely correct: it is psychological warfare.
And it is not working: for the umpteenth time – Recognition, Reparation, Return does not equal ‘victimhood’: it is the exact opposite.
[“This is why I refuse to play into it or to become their willing victim. It is demeaning to wear the cloak of victimhood, especially at this point in time. We are no longer victims! “]
Recognition, Reparation, Return does not equal ‘victimhood’: it is the exact opposite
[“Until the Armenian community can shake that mindset and act strongly, we will not be able to be effective in achieving any goals in a serious way.”]
Armenians did demonstrate unequivocally and very convincingly - in 1988 – that the alleged mindset was shaken long ago.
Armenians worldwide acted very strongly, came together to back and support our heroic brothers and sisters in Artsakh and Armenia.
Armenians did make a VERY strong stand and said: “No, we will not be exterminated again. There’s been enough. If any of us have to die, we’re taking a whole lot of you with us. No more marching columns of unarmed civilians to the slaughterhouse”.
Armenian threw out the ‘Azeri’ Tatar invaders who were bent on exterminating them with massive support from their Genocidal Turk cousins.
A very solid, very tangible goal was reached: 200,000 Armenians were saved from extermination; Historic Armenian lands were liberated; Artsakh is de facto independent and secure.
Dear Servart
Our Land was Umm Aldunya ( the mother of the world)
We were present there since Pharaohs
Because we couldn’t kill with our arts
(Brushes…Canoon…doodoks… Kamancha…
We will thrown out one by one…
Still Turks call us killers …
i say by what…
The money speaks
The rudeness speaks
The power speaks
We should bring more children
To replace…our great loss
What ever we do… still unreplaceable
We lost our best literates
Our children must have more kids
To fill our land and become Umm Aldunya …
At least in our Eyes…
Sylva
I am sorry Karekin but you got it all wrong, although you are entitled to have your opinions.
Asking and demanding justice is not playing victimhood. I don’t know why asking for justice embarasses you, and you see the Turkish “bullying” as a stronger and more respectable alternative. Bullying stems from ignorance, weakness and insecurity. I still think that Davutoglu’s call for the recognition of the Balkan Turkish massacres, which by the way took place as a consequence of a war the Turks themselves had launched, and the lies about the Azeri loss of life which again was the consequence of the Azeris waging war against the Karabakhzis, as a clear example of playing the “phony” victim.
Demanding justice and promoting the truth takes guts, and is nothing to be ashamed of. The Jews don’t have this kind of complex whatsoever.
My Dear Servart and Sylva, it’s funny, but guess what, I write poems as a hobby too! Ha Ha Ha…
Dear Sylva,
Last semester I took two courses in college and one of them was Western Civilization to Reformation and don’t you know that we as a nation are older than the Pharaohs, it’s true. Although we were tribal people before we formed a nation, (from Phrygia, Thraece, Hyasa, Urartian, etc.) but later we have formed a nation and we are more than 5,000 year old nationality. Of course thanks to our hard working but peace loving nature as it’s the traits of our people, we had far too many invadors, and because of it we have mixed blood, but nonetheless culturally of course we are Armenians. My point is that we are older than the Pharaohs and we thaught the world many things; two of them that comes to mind is the bronze warfare materials (swords and shields) and the other is how to draw a map. We were and we shall become again Sylva jan Armenya Umm El Donya!!!!!
Dear Katia,
Very good answers and explanations. Not only the Turks bully and try to manipulate us, but they constantly speak from both ends of their mouth, they lie, cheat, bribe, everything and anything that is inhuman, low life, illegal as well as killings against good people who are doers, workers, builders, peace loving and who are great contributers to the civilizations of mankind, such as the Armenians. By the way what I’d like to know is, what were the Turks doing in the Balkans all the way from Mongolia? Why in the world they came to our country and then went through Balkania and all the way to the middle of Europe? I give credit to the Europeans that were able pushed them right out. I only wish we did the same. Like Victor Hugo said; “Wherever the Turks go, bloodshed, misery and massacres follow as that’s what they are good for”.
Anahit
I will not taunt you, I will give you a feed back as honestly as I can. If you disagree or find it unpleasant, and if you find nothing in it you can use, all the worse, but this is how feed backs go, isnt it?
By the way I think you do an injustice to Karekin. Actually I complained about Sylvia, but gor chose to chastise karekin for calling me an indiot. Did you take on this opportunity to chastise Karekin because he is not in line with the other Armenians?
Now possibly you will argue that the AW, while technically and juridically consisting of texts open to all and citable by all, usable by all, still our discussions has a semi-private character which means that it is not right of me to use them as material for a book. If some of you experience my book project as a kind of braking of implicit rules of good conduct, please tell me!