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French Senate Passes Bill Criminalizing Armenian Genocide Denial

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PARIS, France (A.W.)—The French Senate on Jan. 23 passed a bill criminalizing the denial of the Armenian Genocide, despite threats and bullying from the Turkish state. The bill passed with 127 votes for, 86 against.

The French Senate (Photo copyright of AFP)

Drafted by French General Assembly member Valerie Boyer, the bill renders denial punishable with a year in jail and a fine of 45,000 euros ($58,000).

It is slated to be signed into law by French President Nicolas Sarkozy.

During the proceedings, members of the French Senate spoke powerfully and vocally in support of the bill, noting that it’s not directed against any specific country—that it is merely an effort to honor the memory of genocide victims and the struggle against hate speech.

Those who opposed the bill did so on the grounds of opposing memorial laws in general, arguing that the Senate is not a courthouse and not a place to legislate history.

The Senate first voted to confirm the constitutionality of the bill. The Senate also voted down four proposed amendments.

French-Armenian intellectuals and artists—including Charles Aznavour, Serge Avedikian, Simon Abkarian, and Levon Sayan—had each issued a call to the French Senate to pass the bill.

Commenting on the vote, Armenian National Committee of America (ANCA) Executive Director Aram Hamparian said, “Today’s courageous vote by the French Senate shines the spotlight across the Atlantic, on American policymakers who, for far too long, have let Ankara block U.S. recognition of the Armenian Genocide.”

“We mark this occasion by urging President Obama to honor his pledge to recognize the Armenian Genocide and by calling on the U.S. House leadership to allow a vote on the Armenian Genocide Resolution, H.Res.304,” he added.

Thousands of French-Armenians gathered in front of the Senate building to express their support for the bill. The crowd celebrated by singing Armenian national and revolutionary songs (see video).

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Nearby the crowd, a group of Turks in opposition to the bill had also gathered. More than an hour before the vote, however, the group started to disperse. The Turkish newspaper Radikal ran an article on its website titled, “The Turks went home, the Armenians have started celebrating,” in reference to the mood of the crowds during the hour leading up to the vote (see photo).

'The Turks went home, the Armenians have started celebrating.'

Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu on Jan. 20 had urged the French Senate not to pass the bill, noting that it would constitute “a black stain on France’s intellectual history.”

“We will always remind them of that,” he added.

In turn, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan announced that he may not visit France again if the Senate passed the bill, reported Hurriyet Daily News.

On Jan. 18, a French Senate committee rejected the bill. The decision was not binding, however, and the Jan. 23 vote proceeded as scheduled.

The bill’s passage did not come as a surprise, as both the left and the right in France had expressed support for it.

On Dec. 22, the French General Assembly had approved the bill, prompting Ankara to withdraw its ambassador from Paris, only to have him return a few weeks later.

France adopted a bill officially recognizing the Armenian Genocide in 2001.

220 Comments on French Senate Passes Bill Criminalizing Armenian Genocide Denial

  1. avatar Ellips Masehian // January 23, 2012 at 5:41 pm // Reply

    Thank you Senate, Thank you France!
    Once again you proved to be the torch-bearer of liberty and justice in the modern world.

  2. This is for my Grandmother Eva who survived the Armenian Genocide at 5 Years Old! Because of her we go on… God Bless Everyone involved to make this happen! God Bless France and the Armenian survivors around the Globe!

    • And my grandmother that survived the genocide when she was 8, because of her bleeding wounds, she was believed to be dead. She survived and told us her memories of her family being murdered by Turks in front of her eyes.
      “Alma mazlumun ahini, cikar aheste aheste”

  3. I am filled with gratitude!

  4. avatar Elturan Ahmadbayli // January 23, 2012 at 5:57 pm // Reply

    This Is Disgraceful!!!

    French from so on you have no right to talk about ‘Free Speech’ and ‘Human Rights’ Remember Genocide against Algerians, Turks never killed innocent people. It was radical armenian groups who killed thousands innocent civilians in Anatolia with your help!!! Sarkozy if not Ottoman maybe today you were not existing, thanks to them your family survived harsh circumstances in Europe!! Shame On YOU!!!

    • YOU are Disgraceful!

      You speak against the Armenian Genocide because you or your loved ones did not feel it on their skin?? DO YOU HAVE TO BURN YOUR FINGER TO UNDERSTAND NOT TO PLAY WITH FIRE YOU PEASANT??!!!

      TURKEY WAS BUILT ON RAPE, MURDER, LIES, AND NOW DENIAL!

      THANK YOU FRANCE. GOD BLESS FRANCE AND ARMENIA!!

    • Were you Denialist Turks just as concerned about ‘Free Speech’ when France (and many other European countries) passed Laws Criminalizing the Denial of Jewish Holocaust ?

      Or you want to have ‘Free Speech’ so you can continue insulting only our murdered ancestors. Delusional Denialists like you, who write this trash – “Turks never killed innocent people.” – are like cornered rats: your little rat brain cannot process what just happened, so you are spewing the usual Anti-Armenian hate bile.

      You guys are running out of tricks: the world is closing in on you.
      No matter what happens, we will get justice for our 2 million murdered ancestors. Have no doubt.

    • How DARE you. Get your facts straight before you comment and regurgitate lies! Our people were murdered in millions and every family has their own truth and proof of that. You are a repulsive human being, and I really hope you do your research and learn the truth one day… This is great news as a human rights issue, and if you were a decent human being you would have realized that. This is a great example to learn from in order for people not to repeat bad history again!

    • avatar Anonymous // January 23, 2012 at 7:56 pm //

      Shame on you! It is disgraceful to say that innocent people were not killed because they were not your ancestors! MY ancestors were brutally killed by the Turks for no reason! The Ottoman empire would be nowhere without the Armenians, and YOU have the nerve to say that they were slaughtered for a reason! SHAME ON YOU, not shame on Europe, SHAME ON YOU!

    • you should really feel ashamed of yourself – instead of saying “Sorry” you try to insult, instead of being humble, you deny and insult the memories – when will you ever learn that your ancestors murdered the Armenians – your government does not have free speech in your own country so what are you trying to prove? the world knows that the genocide committed by Turkey happened, it is all documented.
      Wake up from your sleep and your dream and for once understand what your ancestors have done – it’s simple.

    • Ridiculous! Nothing is more disgraceful than building your nation on the blood of millions of ‘unwanted’ people, stealing their wealth and property and claiming their ancient artifacts as your own. Nothing is more disgraceful than running around the world spreading disinformation and denying the truth to avoid the responsibility for a horrific crime. Nothing is more disgraceful than blaming the victim for their own murder. And further, what is more disgraceful than Article 301 which criminalizes insulting ‘Turkishness?’ Clean up your own house before you criticize others.

    • You know what is a true Disgrace Elturan Pasha???

      The biggest disgrace is having Turkey on the map.. because no murderor and a denialist who threatens other countries have the right to even exist among normal human beings… but Turkey is there.. and other countries UNLIKE FRANCE (who demonstrated they have the BALLS to stand up to the sick man of Europe) continue to succumb to Turkey’s tantrums and stay in the back burner without recognizing the autrocities commited by Turkey.. Now THAT is disgraceful…

      also, people like you are disgraceful for eating the lies letter by letter.. you yourself demonstrate a disgrace …

    • avatar sylva-MD-Poetry // January 24, 2012 at 7:55 am //

      There was no genocide in Algeria…
      It was a war
      Some Algerian were with france… some against…
      Algerians are still living there …
      In their homes …
      Armenians left their ancient home land
      without parents …
      without money
      with out cloths
      My grandmother gave her golds and bribed the genderma to keep her alive
      She arrived to Syria starting working in cloth factory to keep her 4 children
      Hungry and cold…She was a wife of a rich family
      Her husband went to work never came back
      He did not cary a gun but he had duduk…
      He did not kill any one…
      Why he was killed… can you explain…
      Or you are black mailed my your government
      We have still lands, homes…carpets… golds in bank in Diyarbakir…
      We can’t return back
      You are living in without working hard…
      You are born this way still you deny
      Shame on your genes
      If your real humans…

      Sylva

  5. THIS IS FOR ALL MY ANCESTORS WHO PERISHED under the barbaric Turkish Ottoman hands..

    GOD BLESS FRANCE….

  6. avatar irina Kazarian // January 23, 2012 at 6:06 pm // Reply

    VIVE LA FRANCE, VIVE L`ARMENIE !

  7. The Turkish state has wealth, influence, weapons, 70 millions, respect and forceful world leaders.

    Humanity has only the truth. Today, truth won.

    Vive La France, once more.

    Watch now how the Armenians of Turkey will be made to suffer.

    • Kako,

      As an American, my reflex – my “knee jerk reflex – is to be against such laws. But, there are good reasons why such laws should be in place in France that go beyond my default position.

      1. For many years it has been a crime to deny the Jewish Genocide in France. Does that bother you as much? They want to treat Genocides equally.

      2. Europeans have a reason to make Genocide denial illegal. Especially the French. They cooperated with the Germans to send Jews, including babies, to death. They are entitled to view laws limiting speech in this way as being more important than promotong the marketplace of ideas.

      3. What have you done to abolish 301? 301 killed Hrant Dink. 301 is a far broader abridgement of the right of free speech than the French law.

      4. As detailed six years ago by the late Professor Quataert, the TR actively suppresses free inquiry into the AG in the USA. Turkey is in no position to lead the charge for free speech.

      5. The US Congress has made dozens of condemnations against Genocide and crimes against humanity.

      6. When the TR starts lobbying, threatening and bullying, Americans and other western peoples dig in their heels and insist that Turlkey cannot tell us how to run our own countries. Even if I opposed this law, I would vote for it for that reason alone. We are not dhimmis.

    • 1. Actually it bothers me the same. I am against the criminalization of any speech as long as it does not directly insults to individuals.

      2. I think criminalizing the ideas actually amplifies them. The limitations by authorities always end up with some people using this to go to extremes.

      3. Unfortunately I did nothing. 301 is a shameful law which is a crime by itself. I agree with you completely. That law should be removed completely with no exception.

      4.5.6. The term Genocide is a legal UN term that needs a court order, which in Armenian case does not exist (unlike the Jewish one). I agree that it was a crime against humanity and nobody can deny it. I could understand the Turkish opposition if it was relying only the legal aspect. I don’t even understand why senates are even voting for historical events. I believe building sculptures, organizing events would serve the memories of the lost ones better than denying someone to express his/her opinions.

  8. It’s interesting to see that people feel gratitude for a law that criminalize the freedom of expression.

    If I say that the Eiffel Tower is built by Aliens and not by French, you would laugh and think that I’m stupid. But you will not imprison me. Why this one would be different?

    Well done France…. well done…

    • were you also that concerned about freedom of expression when France (and many other European countries) passed Laws Criminalizing the Denial of Jewish Holocaust ?

      Or you want to have the freedom of expression to deny only the Armenian Genocide ?

      BTW: there were no Turks marching in Paris complaining about freedom of speech at the time. Nobody was marching.

    • Wow…you seriously can’t see the difference between the armenian genocide and your example?

      What has freedom of expression to do with a nation honoring the memories of a race that was murdered?

      If you say aliens built the Eiffel Tower, you are slighting Mr. Eiffel’s memory, who used his intelligence to design the tower. You do no further harm.

      If you say armenian genocide did not exist, you are actually spitting on the memory of many unborn children who were murdered in their mother’s womb when a turkish bayonet pierced it purposely for obliterating the armenian race.

      If you say armenian genocide did not exist, you are actually ignoring the memory of the mother who had to feed one of his sons the dead flesh of her daughter just to strive to save her son at the least.

      Do you now understand the difference? Or will you now argue about my examples as being too graphic and not real? Will you need an eye-witness to account for these facts, a mllion scholars, billion documents stating these scenes as true, etc?

    • Avery:

      I also do not support the laws criminalizing the denial of the Holocaust as well. Unfortunately I didn’t nothing at that time because I was a small child.

      Dantes:

      You give quite a graphic details, you can go even further dramatization but in the end I still do not see how denial would hurt the memories.

      As a turk I won’t get offended if a greek would tell me that their ancestors did not slaughtered the people of Izmir, or a christian telling me that crusades did not exit.

    • I don’t see this as a limitation on freedom of expression as much as I see it as a responsible rejection of the perpetuation of injury that denial brings to the victims of genocide. Absolute free speech exists no where. There are social limits and legal limits in most societies and consequences for knowingly slandering a person or entity.
      Try yelling Fire! in a crowded theatre and see if the law doesn’t come down on you.

      I thank France for this strong message to negationists.

    • KAko, please! How can you be so thick? To deny a genocide that obliterated a people from there homeland and scattered their remnants around the globe is like saying that their pain of separation and loss is meaningless and doesn’t deserve validation. It distorts truth and denies a defining moment in the life/or death of a people. You really don’t have any skin in the game so you really don’t get it do you?

    • avatar Hairenakitz on YouTube // January 24, 2012 at 2:33 am //

      @ KAko,

      Aren’t you ‘ArmemodMedia’ or ‘Fedayi01′ in the YouTube?
      The shameless Armenian Hitlerian NAZI spreading fascism.
      I’ve got red handed again!

      Well, you should be ashamed more than Turks, because you are worse than Turks!

      Sure, a Nazi like you does agree with a Turk and not Armenians!
      All you have is blind hatred toward Jews!

      Next time sign in with all your Hitlerian-youth credentials!

    • There is a danger when a country enshrines in law the denial of an event that
      as in Germany today, ”Holocaust Denial” has become not only an imprisonable
      offence but also Holocaust discussion. In other words if two people in a private conversation want to discuss the numbers of say Jews who died in camps, they can be prosecuted if they veer from the state accepted truth. This has happened
      in many high and low profile cases in Germany. It has also led to a total absence
      of WW2 discussion by Ethnic Germans.

    • @ Hairenakitz on YouTube

      I have no idea on what you’re talking about… If you could only remove your glasses of hate, you would easily see that I am not denying anything or hate anyone. I am just opposing of criminalization of thoughts.

    • avatar Hairenakitz on YouTube // January 26, 2012 at 9:47 am //

      @ KAko,

      Remove glasses of hate from my eyes or yours???
      Are you denying to be ‘ArmenoidMedia’ ‘Fedayi01′ on the YouTube???
      Are you denying your Nazi-Fascist affiliations???

    • @ Hairenakitz

      You won’t believe whatever I say, and you will brand me as nazi anyways. So why bother to talk to you…

  9. viva la france, what can i say, victory for justice

  10. we have to make sure we capitalize on this victory and push for global justic, push for our couse and strive to convince the turkish government that coming clean is beneficial for them.

  11. God Bless France!!! Thank you, Thank you!!!!

  12. No one can face the truth!! Congratulations to all Armenians!.

  13. I bet that Murderer Talat wasn’t thinking about today when he raised his sword. He thought he can murder innocent people and sweep it under the rug..

    Murderers get what they deserve!

  14. avatar Samvel Jeshmaridian, PhD // January 23, 2012 at 6:50 pm // Reply

    This fact is one more step forward toward a better world!
    It is the great victory of the FRENCH LIBERALISM.
    It can be a good impetus for Turkish people to clean themselves mentally!
    It can be a heavenly spirit for Armenians to get rid of genocide memories and look forward the same direction together with free and liberal-democratic nations.

  15. avatar George Müller // January 23, 2012 at 6:59 pm // Reply

    I think France and Armenia forgot the year of 1992…

    The Khojaly Massacre was the killing of hundreds of ethnic Azerbaijani civilians from the town of Khojaly on 25–26 February 1992 by the Armenian and Russian armed forces during the Nagorno-Karabakh War. According to the Azerbaijani side, as well as Memorial Human Rights Center, Human Rights Watch and other international observers, the massacre was committed by the ethnic Armenian armed forces, reportedly with help of the Russian 366th Motor Rifle Regiment, apparently not acting on orders from the command. The official death toll provided by Azerbaijani authorities is 613 civilians, including 106 women and 83 children. The event became the largest massacre in the course of Nagorno-Karabakh conflict.
    Western governments and the western media refer to it as the Khojaly Massacre or Khojaly Tragedy. Azerbaijani, Pakistani and Turkish sources occasionally refer to the massacre as Khojaly Genocide (Azerbaijani: Xocalı soyqırımı, Turkish: Hocalı soykırımı) and the Khojaly Tragedy (Azerbaijani: Xocalı faciəsi). Armenian sources usually underestimate the massacre and mostly refers to it as the Battle of Khojaly (Armenian: Խոջալուի պատերազմում-Khojalui Paterazmum), Khojaly event (Armenian: Խոջալուի իրադարձություն-Khojalui Iradardzut’yun) or sometimes Khojaly tragedy (Armenian: Խոջալուի ողբերգության-Khojalui Voghbergut’yan).

  16. avatar George Müller // January 23, 2012 at 7:03 pm // Reply

    According to Human Rights Watch, the tragedy struck when “a large column of residents, accompanied by a few dozen retreating fighters, fled the city as it fell to Armenian forces. As they approached the border with Azerbaijan, they came across an Armenian military post and were cruelly fired upon”.
    Armenian side officially claims that the killings occurred as a result of wartime military operations, and were in part caused by the prevention of the evacuation of town inhabitants by Azerbaijani forces. Armenian government officials asserted that the casualty count, though high, was due to the fact the fleeing civilians in Khojaly had mingled with the retreating defenders and when the Azeri troops shot back, Armenian forces fired upon them, killing both soldier and civilian alike. Helsinki Watch itself concluded “that the militia, still in uniform, and some still carrying their guns, were interspersed with the masses of civilians.” However, Human Rights Watch and Memorial, found this explanation of Armenian officials unconvincing, stating that the killing of civilians could not be justified under any circumstances. Human Rights Watch noted that “the attacking party [i.e., Karabakh Armenian forces] is still obliged to take precautionary measures to avoid or minimize civilian casualties. In particular, the party must suspend an attack if it becomes apparent that the attack may be expected to cause civilian casualties that are excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated.”
    The Armenian side refers to Ayaz Mutalibov’s interview to claim that the massacre had been committed not by Armenian soldiers but by Azerbaijan Popular Front militants who allegedly shot their own civilians escaping through the corridor. In one of his interviews Mutalibov stated that the event could be a ploy by opposition to denigrate his government. In later interviews, however, Mutalibov would go on to condemn the Armenians for what he said was a blatant misinterpretation of his words. Some believe that the Azerbaijani journalist Chingiz Mustafayev who recorded the Khojaly Massacre was killed very suspiciously while he was trying to gather information about the attack of the Azerbaijan Popular Front militants to their own civilians. Other theories proposed by the Armenian side were that Azeri Popular Front soldiers had massacred 100 Azeri and Armenian civilians and then proceeded to mix the bodies and lay blame upon the Armenians. This explanation however is widely disputed, among others, the executive director of Human Rights Watch has stated that: “we place direct responsibility for the civilian deaths with Karabakh Armenian forces. Indeed, neither our report nor that of Memorial includes any evidence to support the argument that Azerbaijani forces obstructed the flight of, or fired on Azeri civilians”.
    At the same time, some Armenian sources admitted the guilt of the Armenian side. According to Markar Melkonian, the brother of the Armenian military leader Monte Melkonian, “Khojaly had been a strategic goal, but it had also been an act of revenge.” The date of the massacre in Khojaly had a special significance: it was the run-up to the fourth anniversary of the anti-Armenian pogrom in the city of Sumgait. Melkonian particularly mentions the role of the fighters of two Armenian military detachments called the Arabo and Aramo, who stabbed to death many Azeri civilians.
    According to Serge Sarkisian, long-time Defense Minister and Chairman of Security Council of Armenia who is the current president of Armenia, “A lot was exaggerated” in the casualties, and the fleeing Azerbaijanis had put up armed resistance. At the same time he stated: “Before Khojali, the Azerbaijanis thought that they were joking with us, they thought that the Armenians were people who could not raise their hand against the civilian population. We were able to break that [stereotype]. And that’s what happened. And we should also take into account that amongst those boys were people who had fled from Baku and Sumgait”.
    The Azerbaijani journalist Eynulla Fatullayev wrote one of in his articles that he met some refugees from Khojaly, temporarily settled in Naftalan, who said that the Armenian soldiers positioned behind the corridor had not opened fire on them. Some soldiers from the battalions of the National Front of Azerbaijan instead, for some reason, had led part of the refugees in the direction of the village of Nakhichevanik, which during that period had been under the control of the Armenians’ Askeran battalion. The other group of refugees were hit by artillery volleys while they were reaching the Agdam Region.

    • George Mueller, I read both your posts in entirety. Yes, something tragic happened in Khojaly. I fail to see the connection to the issue in France. How does the charge against Armenians in Khojaly diminish the right of the French to pass a law to limit the destructive impact of genocide negationists or of Armenians to seek justice for a crime committed against them by Turkey in 1915? If Azeris have suffered a genocide, I support their right to have the truth validated. However every raid or gun battle, no matter how tragic or unjustified, is not a genocide. As you point out in your posts, the facts are debated in Khojaly incident, but genocide has not been shown as a motive. Ugly things happen in a war…we all know this.

    • George Muller,
      It was the Azeri’s that started that war. It was azeri’s that started shelling the city of shishi and its civilians. It was the azeri’s that murdered innocent Armenians in Sumgait and Baku. There are eye witnesses of pregnant Armenian women being gang raped and the set a fire after being dragged out of maternity wards.

      600 plus azeri civilians that were killed in the line of fire, if that the real story is tragic but doesn’t constitute a genocide….Turkey just recently killed 35 young Kurds in a single bombing. should we call that the Kurdish genocide as well? Pure nonsense form a Turkish apologist who just doesn’t get it.

    • avatar Sylva-MD-Poetry // January 24, 2012 at 1:12 am //

      This post must be removed …
      if Armenians killed few to take their land back this is not called a genocide…
      This is their right… otherwise they would have killed and vanished all Armenian… Already they vanished Armenians from Baku …

      Please remove this post
      and we have right to say what we want
      Muller is paid to enter our site
      What he got from Turkish will vanish in the sand
      But truth will prevail and always
      And is prevailing today …
      Our sunny day …
      We no longer see clouds in the sky…

      Sylva

    • Small potatoes

    • avatar Sylva-MD-Poetry // January 24, 2012 at 6:16 am //

      Shame on any one
      Who doesn’t fill with us
      We are born from
      Genocided orphans

      I wish your pen
      Burn and see the hell
      In your real life
      Like our ancestries saw
      Before those blood filled pen
      Pen in the paradise…

      Sylva

    • Well Said John.. Well said my friend… these denialists fail to see the ugly that comes frm their side.. only blame others for their dirty deeds.. typical way out of the situation. but they know very well the judgement day is approaching fast…

  17. avatar Annette Apelian // January 23, 2012 at 7:10 pm // Reply

    Both of my parents were Armenian Genocide survivors, although most of their families were not. I heard all about the Ottoman Turkish barbarians throughout my lifetime. My mother came to the USA from Paris, France (through Ellis Island) in 1930. She often spoke about the wonderful French people so this is a tribute to her (in heaven). Viva la France – God bless you. I only pray that the USA will follow suit. Armenia – the FIRST NATION to accept Christianity.

    • Yeah we turks are a evil race that causes nothing but pain and destruction. I wish that you had grown up with stories of how different people can live together than demonizing a whole population.

      “the FIRST NATION to accept Christianity.” ?? If that would designate some sort of quality that I’d say crusades, inquisition, etc, etc….

    • Kako.. true ignorant denialist talking.. i can’t even express how digusted I am with your denialists comments.. but then again.. what do you expect from peoplel ike you? now there is no where to run which is why people like you come out of their hibernation by spewing nonsense.. we are used to it… so anything you say will be voided by default.. including George Muller… and ilk…

    • @gayane

      Interesting…. We have the same kind of people like you in Turkey: if you’re not with me than you’re against me….

      I don’t even answer to these comments but I’ll tell the same thing that I told before: “If you could only remove your glasses of hate, you would easily see that I am not denying anything or hate anyone. I am just opposing of criminalization of thoughts.”

  18. Mille merci pour la France.

  19. I’m extremely happy that French Senate passed it :-)))

    “In turn Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan announced that he may not visit France again if the Senate passed the bill”

    Really Mr. PM…..?
    French Senate PASSED IT then don’t Visit…. :-)))

    And as we say in Armenian:
    “Blessed is the lawn where the pig refuses to visit”.

  20. To France…This is truly a sad day in your history. Too late will you ultimately realize what you have just done. I hope all of the Armenian butts you kissed, and their bribe monies, was worth it.

    To the Armenians…Your time is quickly approaching. The sad thing is that you’ve all been warned so many times and did nothing! You, as a people, are to be pitied. It’s in God’s hands now.

    • Yo Robert the TURKS.. oh now you have a red avatar.. what happened to the blue, and green, and yellow or whatever colors you come under on our pages… you keep warning us .. are you that idiotic to threaten us with your nonsense? oh wait.. yes you are…

      Turkey is soooooo desperate that they try to advertise and bring more tourists by selling themselves even to Wheel of Fortune.. how sad are you.. the money is running out? is that why???

    • I agree about the “It is all in God’s hands” part of your statement. God’s people will prevail even if it is a hundred years after they were about to be eliminated. God saw us through the past four thousand years, and he will see us through another four thousand. As for your people, alas there is no history, and there is definitely not much future either.

  21. All the oppressed peoples of the Ottoman Empire feel relieved by this law. At last the true nature of the Turks is appearing. Thank you France. Now, we see that asking the Turks to defend the freedoms and human rights in Syria and other neighboring countries is like asking the wolf to protect the lambs.

  22. The good guys always win in the end! Bravo France!!

  23. avatar Grish Begian // January 23, 2012 at 7:31 pm // Reply

    It is time for US, to honor lady liberty, and take that ugly invisible red gag away from her mouth!!

  24. thanx France!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

  25. thanx France!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  26. This puts the French at the the top of most politicized peoples in the civilized world.

    Let the fundamentals of Freedom, Fraternity and Equality be alive forever.

    Thank you France for your courage and honesty.

    We are still waiting and it is time for the US and the UK to honor the memory of our 1.5 million martyrs.

    • That is for sure.. but US does not have the balls to stand up to this monster.. and i don’t know why… maybe too much kissing Turkey’s you know what…. it is sickening…

      So much so Turkey is infiltrating herself in everything that goes on in US.. Carl’s Jr Turkey Burger ads… the turkish airlines.. the free give aways at wheels of fortune.. they are hanging on everything to make sure US does not slip and maybe do the right thing.. by throwing money at US and US pumping money into Turkey these ugly relationship does not seem to end but one day it will end.. very very bad break up.. i know it..

  27. As an American I am glad and very relieved to hear that justice and truth can still overcome the selfish and unjust pursuit of undeserved power and greed. Now it is America’s turn to uphold these truths and hold moral and just actions above greed and selfish desires. I commend Franc for their brave and righteous actions.

    • Thank you Roger.. I just hope that our own country, the brave and mightly US of A will follow suite…

  28. avatar Grish Begian // January 23, 2012 at 8:12 pm // Reply

    Elturan,

    This why fanatic Islamic world do not believe in genocides and human rights, but they believe in Jihadism and Jihadism is a rightful act in Islam, this is why country called Turkey, once was a Christian Empire…do you know what happened to their rightful citizens and rightful owners of that land??If you can’t come up with an intellectual answer, then go to Hagia Sofia, go for a tour there.. you will feel the ghost of real owners behind the walls and if you are really clever, next you will doubt about yourself if you are a real Turk, next you will kneel down in front of Aya Sofias door step, and ask Allah’s forgiveness!!

    • “rightful owners of that land”… That doesn’t mean anything. The ownership of the land is decided by conquest through all history of mankind. Armenians too are not assigned by god to that land from day 1.

      If we take your attitude, clone it for a couple of million times and then give some guns. And that attitude would cause a Turkish Genocide with no hesitation.

    • Kako, you said it not me. Conquest. that is all you are, bloody conquerors. And it was your forefathers that were afraid of mine to try to annihilate them.

    • Berch,

      If you mean all of mankind when you say “all you are”, yes unfortunately we are all bloody conquerors. That should be a human thing I guess. Nowadays fortunately there are less conquering in the world that before.

  29. avatar Steven Gibson // January 23, 2012 at 8:14 pm // Reply

    I urge the Armenian people to celebrate this victory and spread word of this victory, but to also realize that it will still take many years of debate to convince the American people to pass such laws. With that said I wish to thank the French people for being such unselfish and moral individuals and for having the courage to stand up to powerful foes and do the right thing. Armenian people should continue to push this issue in the U.S.

    • USA cannot pass such a Law: the 1st Amendment prohibits it (as it should).

      There is no Law prohibiting the Denial of the Jewish Holocaust in the USA.
      But if you deny it or call the JH a hoax, you will be marginalized and driven into the woodworks (like David Duke was): and that’s good enough.

      But United States MUST now recognize the Armenian Genocide, not just symbolically, but by Law.

      Then, we will not have the despicable spectacle of President Obama embracing PM Erdogan and calling him his ‘trusted friend’.
      Reminder to Pres. Obama: your ‘trusted friend’ publicly called the Armenian Genocide a “lie” on the Charlie Rose show.

      Would Pres. Obama also consider indicted war-criminal Pres. of Sudan Omar Hassan Ahmad Al-Bashir a trusted friend ?

    • Avery, the USA may not be be able to pass such a law but California probably can.
      I have no objection to people refusing to believe in historical fact but when the Turkish Govt.sends it’s goons here, intimidating our esteemed UC professors and mocking the survivors of its mass-murder on their Remembrance Day, the line in the sand was drawn. I hope the Turkish people understand that this is not directed at them. This is the Diaspora about to go head-on with the Turkish Govt. on all fronts, the eye of the hurricane-the “perfect storm”.
      Now it’s time to turn our attention to the USA. If the Obama administration is willing to relinquish our leadership (and his own promises) in promoting freedom and human rights in the World to the French, then let me say it proudly; today, I am French. Vive la France, leader of the Free World!

    • I agree with you Avery jan.. 100%

    • avatar Sylva-MD-Poetry // January 24, 2012 at 1:47 am //

      Thanks Gibson…For your clear expression … About the our rights
      But we should remember that
      44 states out of 50 of USA have recognized the Armenian Genocide
      So its politics and not the people
      who are playing their games …
      And they will fail …
      Also another group are the British M.Ps
      but not the North which is Scotland… Neither the South which is the Wails
      Only England …in the middle and they will flail as well…
      They lost their empire still can’t recognize the Armenian Genocide…!

  30. Will Turkey retaliate by strengthening article 301? Will more truth-writers be hauled onto the Midnight Express that disappears into oblivion?
    when it comes time to cast your vote, remember that France took the high road, while Obama is still picking his nose.

  31. avatar Barkev Asadourian // January 23, 2012 at 8:56 pm // Reply

    There is no more gracefull better than this .
    VIVA FRANCE
    VIVA ARMINIAN
    DOWN WITH DENIAL TURKEY

  32. Viv la France! Viv la Armenie! Merci France.

    Thanks to France and its principled stance on European values of liberalism and human rights and respect for human dignity, Europe is beginning to wake up to the peril that is threatening all these values emanating from Turkey which, moreover, is entertaining restoration of “Ottoman greatness” and accession to the EU!
    In the same way that Nazi Germany could never be reformed from within or without and had to be destroyed so too Turkey has shown itself to be incapable of reform. It is the first fascist state. France, by this action, has shown the rest of Europe the way. Let this be the prelude to dismantling of fascism in Turkey, the last bastion of state sponsored chauvinism, racist nationalism and fascism on the periphery of Europe. That is the precondition of democracy in Turkey and justice for Armenia and Armenians – recognition of the Armenian Genocide by Turkey and the elimination of all its consequences.

  33. I still think one year in prison and 45,000 Euros is a bit harsh for denying genocide, but seeing as France is making the denial of ANY genocide illegal I also don’t get why Turkey is overreacting in such a way. France isn’t singling Turkey out, and free speech restriction arguments are invalid – things in France may not work the same way they do in the US. And it’s not like Turks are in any position to call France out for free speech restrictions with Article 301. As a sovereign nation, France can do as they please, and seeing how happy it has made the Armenians here, I’m all for it.

    • RVDV… if you ask me a year in prison and 45,000 euros is not even close to what i would have passed for any TURK denialist who deny and distort the truth as we have seen and keep seeing on our pages every day.. this is too small of a price to pay …

  34. I feel very good for this great news, I wish my grand parents were alive to have them celebrate it with us,I hope the rest of the world will follow up the France, many thanks for France parliament.

  35. avatar Svetlana Swanson // January 23, 2012 at 9:38 pm // Reply

    Now it is Armenian Parliament’s turn to criminalize corruption and bribery by public officials and civil service workers in Armenia.

    Yerevan needs a “Wall of Shame” where citizens can post the name(s) of public officials accepting or asking for bribes to carry out their duties.

  36. BRAVO FRANCE, You are courageous and on the side of human rights, unlike my weak country the USA. VIVE LA FRANCE.

  37. BRAVO FRANCE, You are courageous and on the side of human rights, unlike my weak country the USA.

  38. Kako if you are concerned that people think Turks only do evil then I encourage your government to share the stories of Turks who bravely helped Armenians during the genocide. Many Armenian families know such stories. But of course, to do this, you will first have to admit to the genocide. It is your chance to face the truth… A less polarized version may exist but not one that can spare Turks from needing to atone for what was done.

  39. avatar Dikranagertzi // January 23, 2012 at 10:27 pm // Reply

    Bravo France!

    Vurtzgernit gadar Hyortiner!

    Purk Asdoozdoo!

  40. A Swedish production directed by Suzanne Khardalian, on Al Jazeera English eight times over the week of Jan. 11-18, occupying a prime time slot in all the key time zones.

    Grandma’s Tattoos
    http://www.aljazeera.com
    A family story that reveals the fate of the Armenian women driven out of Ottoman Turkey during the First World War.

  41. Re: Free expression

    There are many limitations to free speech: copyright laws, libel, slander, and speech that calls for violence and genocide.

    Denial of genocide consists of condoning and, by extension, calling for genocide. Therefore it is illegal under normal free speech limitations.

  42. While this is essentially a victory of symbolism, I welcome it nonetheless. The noose is tightening around the neck of the denialists. I predict that someday a west-leaning person of courage will lead Turkey into the 21st century and understand that that country can only achieve world-wide acceptance by coming to grips with its past.
    Israel, it’s your turn next. And how about you, Obama? Isn’t about time for you to put on your big-boy pants and grow a pair.

  43. avatar Sylva-MD-Poetry // January 24, 2012 at 12:57 am // Reply

    Let our genocided voices
    Chant the name of Justice
    That was vanished by force
    For just a century … almost

    Shame for the politicians
    Who knows the facts
    Yet deliberately denies…and
    Pride for those who recognize…
    And will continue to recognize

    Justice is Justice
    Can never sink in sands…
    One day must prevail…
    Flying its bleeding flags…

    As far as many honest men
    Still could exist on this earth
    Truth will solute…
    Swarding the voices that lied…

    Sylva–MD-Poetry
    January 23, 2012

    Written instantly for the occasion
    for the Justice… that we cried for…
    Since our childhood days…
    Since we defined the genocide
    Before others could utter its name…

  44. Thank you, Thank you France, for finally passing a bill that criminalizes anyone who denies the 1915 Genocide of the innocent Armenian populations living throughout (Historic Western Armenia) Turkey; that was wilfully perpertrated
    by the barbaric Ottoman Empire!

    My guiltless and righteous family members that lived for centuries in historic Sebastia (Sivas, Turkey), were either murdered or sent to Der Zor Desert to
    die! My grandmother buried five of her children with her own hands in the desert sands of Der Zor, in the first week of deportation, because the Turkish guards would not allow anyone to have any water while they marched !

    EVERYONE READING THIS COMMENTARY, PLEASE PURCHASE THE NEW
    GENOCIDE BOOK OF 700 SEPERATE GENOCIDE SURVIVORS STORIES TITLED; “THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE (Testimonies of the Eyewitness Survivors) by Dr. Verjine Svazlian, of Yerevan, Armenia. Published by “Gitoutyoun” Publishing House of NASRA 2011 – Yerevan, Armenia.

    I also want to mention, that Turkish families helped with the survival of my father, while he was also escaping from Sepastia (Sivas) after the Turks and the Kurds murdered 28 members of my ancestors in their family home!
    Turkish people of today, the Armenians around the world do not hold you gulity
    of what happened to the Christian population from 1915 to 1923.
    We the Armenian people can not tolerate the lies and denial of Turkish leaders and government regarding the annilhation and planned extermination of a peace-loving Armenian population from 1923 to the present!!!

  45. US gov.They like their military bases in turkey more than Armenian genocide story,thats sad..

  46. Ok, the Genocide did happen. That is not the question I want to raise. Let’s move beyond the obvious, and ask why: Why did France do this, in the face of Turkish threats? Maybe I am a cynic, but I dont think a country like France (with its very bloody history of colonialism) does something like this out of moral obligation. At the end of the day, it comes to real politik. So what is the real reason behind this French act. Two possibilities:

    1) Sarkozy wants the Armenian votes in France.
    I doubt this is the case. If this vote was not in French interests, the others in the establishment would have stopped him.

    2) This legilation is in French national interests.
    I believe this because of the following. Turkey has been trying to assert itself as a regional power and influence center in the region after the US has become bogged down (there is a void). The French wants to fill in the gap too — a rivalry has ensued. One of the Turkish drivers for friendly relations with neigbors has been to try to mend things with Armenia (opening the border in exchange of softening on the AG recognition). So what French is trying to do is to fan the Armenian-Turkish tensions by putting the AG pursuit right at the fore. This will most certainly worse the Turkish-ARmenians relations and … strangely speaking, the French move benefits Azerbaijan. No, Turkey will NEVER open its border, and will be further driven away from Armenia.

    In sum, France is trying to make sure that Turkey has at least one ENDURING problem with a neighbor of its, which means less ability to be a hub of regional power — all the better for France.

    • Ummm Kerim where have you been reading your information because to this day Turkey did not lift a figure to mend relationships with ARmenia.. are you that blind or you simply that ignorant??

      And your idea of opening borders in exchange of softening on the AG recognition is not OUR idea of mending relationship.. are you out of mind?? it will never happen.. so if you TRULY want great relationship with your neighbors especially with ARmenia .. your weakly govt should REMOVE all pre-condition..Absurd pre-condition if you ask me…

  47. avatar john the turk // January 24, 2012 at 1:44 am // Reply

    Congratulations Guys.It is now your turn but I remind you a few turkish proverb

    One who sows wind will reap hurricane
    Sharp vinegar only damages its container
    (Liar’s candle will last till evening.) Lies will work only for a limited time.

    Trust me French isn’t in a position to control Turkey and Remember the French betrayal?

    • Of course.. J The Turk… lies will workonly for a limited time.. and we are seeing that is happening now. TUrkey is losing grounds … Her lies are being trampled one by one.. sad sad times for the biggest liar herself.. YOUR GOVT and denialists like you…

      France does have position to control what is going on in FRANCE and that is NOT ALLOWING DENIALISTS LIKE YOU WHO LEFT TURKEY TO LIVE IN FRANCE (what happened?? can’t live in your own great country???? i thought Turkey was the grandest country for the denialists)… AND PUNISH YOU FOR SPEWING LIES ABOUT THE 1915 GENOCIDE.. if you ask me.. France has total control over Turkish denialists..

  48. avatar Queen Haykanoush // January 24, 2012 at 1:58 am // Reply

    …… And to both of my grandmothers and grandfathers at ages 5 to 10 in 1915 who suffered unsufferable… and for all of those who rest now in the desserts of Der Zor, in the waters of Black and Meditterranean Seas…. REST IN SOUL, MY DEARS, REST IN PEACE…., WE, YOUR OFFSPRING, AND ALL OF THE PROGRESSIVE MANKIND IN THE NAME OF
    F R A N C E——- WILL NOT LET YOUR TORTURES BE FORGOTTEN, EVER AND DENIED…
    V I V E L A F R A N C E ! ! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    M E R C I, F R A N C E !!! Et –
    V I V E L’A R M E N I E !!!

  49. avatar Sylva-MD-Poetry // January 24, 2012 at 2:05 am // Reply

    Can any one translate the song that Armenians are singing
    in front of the Senate House
    I know only few words…
    Interested to know who wrote the lyric and when it was written…
    I know only this line…

    Sultan oozezh chinchel mezi= (Sultan wanted to vanish us )

    Sylva

  50. avatar Hairenakitz on YouTube // January 24, 2012 at 2:19 am // Reply

    Armenia loves you… France
    Հայաստանը սիրում է ձեզ … Ֆրանսիա
    L’Arménie vous aime … France
    Armenien liebt dich … Frankreich
    Армения любит тебя … Франция
    Ermenistan sizi seviyor …Fransa
    亞美尼亞愛你… …法國
    L’Armenia vi ama … Francia
    أرمينيا يحبك… فرنسا

  51. We have long waited 96 years for the truth to surgface; but there is more to come.
    The world must follow the footsteps of France. Vive La Franch.

  52. avatar RAFFI KEVORKIAN // January 24, 2012 at 4:28 am // Reply

    YESTERDAY ONE AND HALF MILLION ARMENIANS SOULS RESTED IN PEACE .
    BRAVE NATIONS TAKE BRAVE DECISIONS .

  53. avatar sylva-MD-Poetry // January 24, 2012 at 5:16 am // Reply

    يحيا العدل
    by فارس العراقي (لم يتم التحقق) – 23/01/2012 – 23:25
    اجمل خبر قراءته , دماء الذين قتلوا غدرا على ايدي العصابات العثمانية ارتاحت الان

    An iraqi person by name Faris Al-Iraqi Wrote
    The best news I read…
    The blood who was slayed by Ottomanian mafias
    Are relaxing now…

  54. avatar Sylva-MD-Poetry // January 24, 2012 at 6:02 am // Reply

    To p. Barrack Obama on His Facebook …if he reads!

    We are Armenian voice from Paris …
    It should reach him…
    To apply what French Senate did today…
    and forever for every nation
    American Liberty Statue designed
    Erected from by French Architects…
    If that statue collapses
    The liberty will vanish
    From American lands

    Sylva from France

  55. Lol, so funny to see how angry the Turks are over this. The point is, today you lost. And you will continue losing. Trolling comments on Armenian news websites won’t change the fact that you lost.

  56. After all, I don’t think this movement of France will bring any good to none of the three nations, Turkey, France and Armenia. This will deepen the hostilities between these three nations which there is already between those three, as I can see. Let’s wait and see what the future will bring around. What makes me sad that it is the people who suffer from the actions of the politicans. I am sure that Erdogan will find a way to send thousands of Armenians, working and making a living in Turkey, home to Armenia. I believe that France should allow those people to work in France at least temporarily. That will give them at least some relief. I know that they will have hard times when they return home where the unemployment runs already high.

  57. avatar Nikos Retsos // January 24, 2012 at 9:36 am // Reply

    The French bill that makes denying the Armenian Genocide of 1915 a crime is an extension of France’s unyielding opposition to Turkey’s joining the European Union (EU). The French always blasted the Turkish governments for widespread torture in Turkish prisons, for failure to reign in a military that disposed elected governments in a whim, and for still living in the culture of the Ottoman Empire that was utterly brutish. The current prime minister Tayyip Erdogan have reigned in the military, and Turkey is today a laudable democracy. But now France also wants Turkey to accept its brutal past, while the Turks want to sweep it under the rug! The French law denying the Armenian Genocide, therefore, is just another legal block that will force Turkey to accept it – if it pursues its application to join the EU.

    Surely the present Turkish leaders cannot accept it. Firstly, they were not responsible for, and, secondly, they cannot officially admit that their ancestors were so brutish and so inhuman! It will be a political suicidal! But France wants Turkey to accept a cathartic admission of its brutish past, as the present day Germany has accepted the past crimes of the Third Reich and of Adolf Hitler! Nikos Retsos, retired professor

  58. This is for my maternal relatives–among them children and pregnant women–who were burnt alive by Turkish gendarmes in a church near Moush in 1915. Astvats hoginerd lusavori!

  59. avatar john the turk // January 24, 2012 at 10:37 am // Reply

    Dear Nikos Retsos

    I am certain that the Turkish government knows that access to EU was blocked long time ago by France and Germany. So they are not worried about EU any more
    They clearly know that it is just a pipe dream and you need to carry the cross in order to have an access to EU. You can see this in their actions if you follow them closely. I live in Europe and visit Turkey once a year. Every year, I see enormous economic changes in turkey . It may be an economic and political race in the region but one thing is clear, IF Turkey can keep up the same level of progress, It will be extremely strong in the next decades.

    • John the Turk.. if you are that proud of your bloody Turkey, why do you live in Europe?? why don’t you go back to Turkey… i thought you said it is a great mighty democratic country… am i sensing that you denialists are just blowing hot air with what Turkey stands for because you can’t admit to the truth????

    • technically 5% of Turkey is geographically in Europe so…….

  60. Turkey is strong economically in the same way USA was in 2006. This is the year the economy fails in Turkey. There is too much credit available.

    When the Europeans stopped the Ottomans at Vienna, they were led by Polish King Jan Sobieski, many of whose bodyguards were Armenians. They were outnumbered 5 to 1. This victory over Jihad marked the beginning of the decline of Turkish power in Europe.

    Today Turkey seeks to exert control over what Europeans may say and do. She throws tantrums and makes every conceivable threat against Europe when she does not get her way short of war. Armenians, once more, stand at the heart of European resolve against the Turkish state.

    A peaceful and democrtatic Turkey has a place in Europe and the world. But she must resist bullying and tyranny against free peoples, and demanding that we all accept her lies.

    Bravo Sobieski!

    Bravo my dear France!

  61. Sylva,

    I think the Armenian patriotic song “Zartnir, lao!” (Wake up, hero!) has its origins in the massacres of 1894-96 unleashed by Great Assassin Sultan Abdulhamid II. That’s why there’s a line “Sultan goozeh jinjel mezi”. The song calls on Armenians to rise up for self-defense against Turkish savagery. As a result of Hamidian massacres, up to 300,000 Ottoman Armenians perished. These massacres are viewed as a prelude to the genocide of 1915.

    Recently, the fans of Turkish football club “Fenerbahce” sang the music of this song as the anthem of their team. When there’s no capacity to create their own, Turks steal from other peoples: lives, culture, lands, pastures, bank accounts, etc. I heard they discontinued to use it as an anthem when someone with a bit more brains revealed it was an Armenian patriotic song.

  62. Sylva, here’s the Armenian lyrics of the song and a rough translation. Cheers.

    ԶԱՐԹԻ՛Ր ԼԱՕ

    Խուժան ազգեր զօրք է ժողուէր
    Եկեր Մշոյ դաշտն է պատել
    Սուլթան կուզէ ջնջել մըզի,
    Զարթի՛ր լաօ, մռնիմ քըզի:

    Խեղճ Մշեցին մնաց լալով,
    Օտար երկիրներ ման գալով.
    Մեռաւ թուրքի պարտքը տալով,
    Զարթի՛ր լաօ, մռնիմ քըզի:

    Ինչ անիծեմ թուրք ազգերին
    Որ սպաննեց ջոջ Ափօյին.
    Մեր յոյսը թողեց օրօրոցին,
    Զարթի՛ր լաօ, մռնիմ քըզի:

    Սուլթան կուզէ ջնջել մըզի,
    Զարթի՛ր լաօ, մռնիմ քըզի:

    Mischievous Turks amassed an army,
    Came and took over our Moush fields,
    The Sultan wants to erase us,
    Wake up, my boy (or my hero), I love you!

    Impoverished Mshetsi remained crying,
    While wandering other countries,
    We’re dying by paying tributes to the Turks,
    Wake up, my boy, I love you!

    How should I curse mischievous Turks,
    Who killed (our leader) Great Apo?
    We left our hopes to the cradle (meaning: Turks killed all the men)
    Wake up, my boy, I love you!

    • avatar Sylva-MD-Poetry // January 25, 2012 at 1:04 am //

      Thanks Ara for sending the lyric in Armenian and English …
      Nice translation I liked…not easy…I think you love poems…and are capable to translate…
      Did you live in Syria…
      There was a famous Arab poet…his mother was Armenian from genocide…
      But i don’t remember his name…my mother use to read his translated poems in Zartonk…and collect…all gone
      Could be Adonis …who was born in Kassab…?
      I wrote to Zartonk news paper no one answered me…!
      Healthy wishes,
      Sylva

  63. jda,

    “A peaceful and democratic Turkey has a place in Europe and the world. But she must resist bullying and tyranny against free peoples, and demanding that we all accept her lies.”

    You don’t seriously think this will ever happen given the history of invasions, destruction, oppressions, and mass murders so widely practiced by the Turks? Can one change his skin?

  64. avatar gaytzag palandjian // January 24, 2012 at 11:53 am // Reply

    Dear Johyn the Turk,
    I can see as of now you do not comprehend that committing an enormous crime has nothing to do with the progress of a nation.An example so you can follow up.-
    Germany committed enormous crime,admitted guilt,made amendments and is certainly progressing in big strides and will continue doing so.
    We Armenians maybe jealous of ea other but not of other nations-in this case and less of all others-great Turkey.We wish her to be wealthy and progressive in all aspects.After all we are neighbours and a wealthy /healthy and CIVILIZED such is much better than the one she was in the past.
    So rest assured that we like to see your nation progress.
    As to the comments of Resoman,we Armenians also are pretty strong -economically ,i.e., in Diaspora- and if some few thousand Armenians who went to Istanbulla, are asked to leave, we can take care of them,do not worry.
    Regime change is also due in Armenia admittedly,when she can also begin to progress more rapidly with help of its Diaspora.
    Hostility is bad.Good neighbourly attitudes much better.Hopefully little brother Azerbaijan will now grasp that what has just taken place -that may be followwed up by others-goes to show that hostility does not render benefits.
    Time for all to be more tolerant to each other and abide by rule of law and respect to ea other,Whether small or large nations.Take care…

    • gaytzag palandjian wrote;

      “As to the comments of Resoman,we Armenians also are pretty strong -economically ,i.e., in Diaspora- and if some few thousand Armenians who went to Istanbulla, are asked to leave, we can take care of them,do not worry.”

      You haven’t taken care of them so far. The Turks did much greater job for providing jobs for them. We had a similar situation back in 2006. I didn’t see any diaspora Armenian around to help them.

    • Resoman.. if you ask me.. TUrkey has not done squat taking care of ARmenians.. and for your information.. whatever they did so far does not even constitute the fact they are REQUIRD and MUST do that and MILLION TIMES MORE.. because ARmenians are on their own lands.. are the Turks living in Turkey on theirs?? so yes Turkey is obligated to take care of those Armenians because of what I said above PLUS Turkey has all the wealth they stole from thesame people’s ancestors you blame to beliving in Turkey..

      don’t you worry your denialists self about Diaspora helping Armenians in Turkey.. we ARE.. not that you can comprehend our actions but all you need to do is worry about your govt and how you can turn the tides of denialism and hatred around..how about that for a plan sir?

  65. avatar Parandzem Rshtuni // January 24, 2012 at 3:02 pm // Reply

    A shame on you Turks, a shame on you, Muller-Whatever…. I wonder who you are- but well, let me unfold who am I- I am a brave Armenian woman, a scholar and a doctor who helped her brothers in the Artsax /Kharabagh’s/ battles and cured the wounds of those who struggled for their Homeland, national pride and ethinc identity…. Who? gave you the right to circulate unbalanced and unverified , distorted oieces of information-obviously aiming to cause a fire. Who had given you the right to exaggerate ”stories”‘ about Khojalu? Do you know what happened in reality- do you know who shot a couple of villlagers- well, I am sure you know…I saw that, I saw what happened in reality and how many Armenian villages had been vanished in 1990-92 by the enemies….And I witnessed what Azeris did in Sumgait, how they massacred thousands of Armenians, how they organized Armenians’ massacres in Baku… Do you have ANY IMAGINATION what I did see? And what did I hear from Armenians who fled the 1991 January 15-20 massacres of Baku, February 28th , 1988- the Great massacre of Sumgaiti Armenians??? STOP THE DISTORTION OF FACTS. TIME HAS EMERGED, YOU- TURKS, AZERIS, PRO-TURKS and on and on…. need to pay back… WE HAD STOOD UP! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH WITH US! TIME FOR THE RECOGNITION OF THE 1915 ARMENIAN GENOCIDE , TIME FOR REPARATIONS AND COMPENSATION OF THE BLOOD OF 2,000, 000 INNOCENT ARMENIANS HAS EMERGED NOW! We are here, their children, grandchildren… we are here now, with much more reinvigorated army of OUR FREINDS. VIVE LA FRANCE! VIVE L’ARMENIE!!!! REST IN PEACE, MY DEAREST, LOST, INOCENT 2,000,000 ARMENIAN SOULS….

    • The message given here is quite similar to, or exactly the same as what the Pro-Turks say. At least you have somethig in common with the Pro-Turks.

      I am sure if they could, the Armenians would have done the same as the Turks had done. After all, we are all human race, the ethnic diversity doesn’t change this fact.

      The Armenians are not alone losing their families, if we look around, we would see many other people of various ethnic origins including the Turks, who lost their family members and relatives in numbers.

    • REsomen… it is a mute point explaining to you the DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SYSTEMATIC KILLING OF INNOCENT PEOPLE vs people losing their families during wars and conflict.. do you understand what GENOCIDE means????

      Armenians WOULD NEVER EVER do such a thing as Ottomans did.. ARmenians were never barbarians.. Armenians were considered very highly civilzed people with highly civilized culture… of course every nation went into wars, battles etc… but to eliminate a nation for NO GOOD REASON by murdering innocent young and old and women is absolutely not a trait an ARmenian has.. but I can absolutely say your Ottomans ancestors were exactly that and more…

      You see the difference now???

    • Gayane: no people are more or less predisposed to commit genocide. Turks were nomads. They had no homeland per say. They had to fight for the lands they attained, making massacres and ultimately genocide more common in their/our history, as conquered people generally didn’t take to well to being, well conquered.

    • avatar sylva-MD-Poetry // January 25, 2012 at 1:13 am //

      Rushduni …your letter should be as a reply to muller…I
      if his name is muller…
      Anyone can have any name…

      I think his letter should be vanished from our sides …If they killed so many lives we can’t clean such a fabricated letter…?
      I wrote many letters to France 24 they removed …I have stopped writing…
      also to Independent and to BBC
      We have the right to be against any fabricated opinion…

      SP

    • Gayane wrote;

      “Armenians WOULD NEVER EVER do such a thing as Ottomans did..”

      This is what I meant. Armenians would never do such a thing, because they couldn’t. That’s why, I said in my post, “if they could”. Some can,some can’t do such things because they are able to or not able to.
      Looking at the hatred by the Armenians over the Turks, I can easily say that if they can, they would have removed the turks from the face of the earth. I have read many such comments. Is it clear, what I mean?

    • Resomen.. Read Berche’s comment over and over.. you are not getting it…

      EVEN THE WORD IF THEY COULD.. does not relate to the ARmenian people… it is beneficial for you to say those things sir because there is no way out of the predicament your govt and denialists such as your friends on these pages put themselves in.. so now attacking a culture, history, and civilized nation to serve your sick purpose of turning tables around WON”T WORK.. sorry..

      Hatred is not in our vocabulary.. Hatred is in TUrkish vocabulary PLUS the word Armenians next to it.. are you that blind????

  66. George Müller:

    I think you and your AzeriTurk and Turk paymasters forgot some things too.

    1988 Sumgait Massacre.
    1988 Kirovabad Massacre.
    1990 Baku Massacre.
    1991 “Operation Koltso” (combined Azeri OMON & Soviet operation)

    You seem to have a precise idea of how many Azeris were killed at Khojali.
    Can you tell us how many Armenians were murdered at Sumgait ?
    Can you tell us how many Armenians were murdered at Kirovabad ?
    Can you tell us how many Armenians were murdered at Baku ?

    Do you know the difference between ‘killing’ and ‘murder’ and ‘massacre’ ?
    Armenian troops fired on groups of fleeing Azeris troops firing at them who were using Azeri (Meshketian Turk) civilians as human shields.

    Unarmed Armenian civilians hiding in their apartments in Sumgait, Kirovbad, Baku were hunted down and massacred.
    The attackers had lists of exact addresses where Armenian lived in mixed ethnicity apartment buildings.
    It was Azeri State organized murder of their own citizens.

    There is more:

    1992 Maragha Massacre of Armenian civilians (during war).
    1992 Stepanakert: months long bombardment by Grads and artillery.
    City leveled. Estimated 2000 civilians killed. Thousands more wounded.
    And of course the military invasion of Nagorno Karabagh Republic by Azeris which cost thousands of Armenian lives.

    Throughout the war Armenian troops cleared out dozens of Azeri villages and towns. The targets were always surrounded on three side and civilians were always given free passage and adequate time to leave. Always. That’s why there are several hundred thousand ALIVE Azeris IDPs.
    Now when it comes to Khojali, Armenians are supposed to have just massacred Azeri civilians ? For what purpose ?

    When you and your paymasters list the deliberate massacres of Armenians by Azeris in the same page as Khojali, then we can have a discussion.
    And make sure you remember who was it that started the killing. (Hint: 1988)

    • Avery,
      AG happened … Now, you keep spreading BS regarding “numerous” Azeri “massacres” against Armenians. So I am going to call you on it for one of them: your alleged Kirovabad massacres.

      The only event you can call a massacre was Sumgayi, with dozen or so death. Tragic, yes, but not really a massacre.

      But back to the Korovabad one … Please point me to evidence.

      Also, I am just curious, do you admit the possibility that ..
      a) Armenians committed any massacres against the Azeris iin the course of taking over with arms over 20% of the land where Azeris used to live in 1990s?

      b) Did Armenians commit any massaces against Turks during World War I, as they allied themselves with Russians?

    • Avery jan.. thank you for pointing out how manipulative and sneak these denialists are…

    • “So I am going to call you on it for one of them: your alleged Kirovabad massacres.”

      OK Kerim:

      Here is are some internet accessible reference below.
      There are many others, but paper (books, magazines, Soviet era news papers).

      http://panorama.am/en/comments/2011/11/28/gandzak-kirovabad-self-defence/

      I am sure you will not believe it, because it is an Armenian source.
      But I do: and that’s all that matters to me.
      I could not care less if you believe it or not.

      http://www.genocide-museum.am/eng/Description_and_history.php

      excerpt: {From 1988-1990 the Khatchkars (Cross-Stones) were mounted in the vicinity of the Genocide Monument to commemorate Armenians massacred in the 1980s by the Azeri government, in the Azerbaijani cities of Sumgait, Kirovabad (Ganzak) and Baku.}

      Apparently nothing happened in Kirovabad, that’s why Armenians went through the trouble of mounting a Khachkar there.

      http://articles.latimes.com/1988-11-27/news/mn-1060_1_soviet-soldiers

      excerpt: {Human rights activists continue to insist, however, that the toll is far greater–as high as 130 dead in the strife-torn Azerbaijani city of Kirovabad alone–and, with warnings of possible genocide, they have appealed for swift action by the government to halt Azerbaijani attacks on Armenians.
      Maj. Gen. V. Omelchenko, the military commander at Kirovabad, told the armed forces newspaper Red Star that his troops had suppressed repeated Azerbaijani attempts to kill local Armenians in what he described as “pogroms,” a reference to the organized massacres of Jews in Czarist Russia.
      In nightly raids, groups of Azerbaijani youths have tried repeatedly to burn the neighborhoods of Armenians, who make up a quarter of the city’s population of 200,000, Omelchenko said, and “more than 70 attempts to organize pogroms” against the Armenian neighborhoods have been reported by his officers.} (and yeah, I am aware of what Soviet Foreign Ministry’s chief spokesman said also: I choose to believe a local commander who saw what was going on)

      ———

      Regarding your two items (a) and (b): let’s have some give and take here.
      I answered your Kirovabad challenge. Now it’s your turn.
      You are well aware that past few days Azeris are commemorating Black January: Jan 19-20 Soviet Special Forces entered Baku. About 100-150 Azeris were killed (Azeris claim more). About 20-30 Soviet troops were also killed.
      Here is my challenge to you: show us something in English language Azeri news (e.g. News.az, Today.az) that admits why the Soviet troops stormed Baku in such force in the first place. What was the real reason ?

      If you do, I’ll address your (a) and (b)

    • My comment did not come through for Kerim but here it is again..

      Kerim.. calling on Avery was a very bad bad idea.. I know Avery well and I know he will never say anything he can’t back up… so you lost hands down Kerim Bey and now you have a question to answer and I know for a fact, you will fail on that too..

    • Avery, let’s start with your claim about the Baku January events, when the Soviet troops murdered >100 Azeris. Now, your challenge to me is a silly one. You ask to find a source that says that the OFFICIAL reason was not to protect the Armenians. Now official reason according to whom? Of course, according to the Soviet leadership, and of course they will use this excuse. I was actually during those days, when large public squared were filled with protesters depanding independence from USSR. There were NO Armenian pogroms at all. None at all all! Soviet troops came to crush the independence movement. The same reason why they came to Georgia and Baltics. Or do you claim that there too they came to stop pogroms? It is really dishonest for Armenians to try to use this tragedy as a justification for their territorial claims against Azerbaijan. See this link: Human Rights Watch (and not some Avery of Armenia) is mentioned there as saying there were no Armenian pogrom in Baku! (http://www.turkishweekly.net/op-ed/2460/20-january-1990-black-face-of-the-red-terror-in-azerbaijan.html)

      Now about the Kirovabad “massacres.” Of course, I am not going to believe the sources you mentioned. Why? Because they all indeed refer to Armenian sources. It is like you saying X, and then referring me to your cousins who also say X. Find an OBJECTIVE 3rd party as the source, like I did with Human Rights Watch in my comments above. You will fail, because there is no such respectable objective source that would talk about fictitious massacres. Yes, it is not unlikely that a handful Armenians were killed in Ganja, as was the case in Armenian towns where Azeris were killed. But such sporadic tragedies do not constitute a massacre.

      But make no mistake. We Azeris know the game you are trying to blame with these fake Azeri massacres. You are trying to show to the world that “Come on, how can we live as part of Azerbaijan given all these massacres!” So the longer the list, the merrier your case. So people like you just keep adding as many massacres to the list as there are major Azeri towns. With this though, you are insulting people’s intelligence. The fact is you wanted to take Karabak from Azerbaijan BEFORE any of these massacres allegedly took place (even if you were right about their occurrence). A cause cannot come after the effect. So admit the reality, which is this: when Soviet Union was falling apart, Armenians saw an opportunity to take Karbak, and when Azeris refused to accept this (who would give up its land?), you resorted to military action.

      So please Avery, now that you have come back empty handed after being challenged to show proof for your claims, please dial down your volume of BS. You can love Armenia without resorting to BS.

    • Gayane, who has appointed you to the grand post of sycophancy? Or were you a cheerleader in kindergarten or something?

  67. Kerim,

    The official death toll of Armenians in Sumgait Massacre released by the USSR’s Attorney General was 26, but many sources indicate that the number of savagely killed, burnt alive, thrown from balconies, and raped Armenians was well into the tens and even hundreds.

    By no rate was the figure a “dozen or so”.

    • Ara jan..

      Kerim does not have the ability to comprehend the difference between the Azeri/Turk deliberate killings of ARmenians, and Armenian resistance/protection aganst these monsters…

  68. Resoman –

    I’m not sure at all that Armenians would have done the same as the Turks had done.

    For three reasons:

    (1)we’re a sedentary people, not terrorizing nomadic warriors, meaning we’re more prone toward creativity not destruction;

    (2)there was no single precedent recorded by Armenian or foreign chroniclers which would depict savagery of such proportions ever committed by Armenians in their long history, even at the times of the Armenian empire in the 1st century BC;

    (3)we’re all human race and the ethnic diversity may not change this fact, but certain cultural, spiritual, and behavioral characteristics are typical to one ethnos, but are untypical or less typical to the other.

    • Berch:

      In fact we have a modern, well document example of how Armenians and AzeriTurks behaved when subjected to, shall we say, very tempting situations.

      Armenian civilians living in Sumgait, Kirovabad, Baku – hunted down and massacred.
      Even after knowledge of those massacres, not a single Azeri was harmed in Yerevan – not one. They were allowed to leave in peace.

      I have already covered the behaviour of troops from both sides during the war above: so will not repeat here.

      The contrast between the two peoples could not be more stark.

    • Avery: This is unrelated to your comment and Berch’s comment, but I just thought you might find this interesting.

      http://www.todayszaman.com/columnist-269474-dink-case–dark-stain–on-judiciary.html

      I was surprised that Today’s Zaman would publish something like this. I’d like to hear your opinion, as you frequently call out TZ for spreading lies and propaganda, and granted, they usually do.

    • Well said..

    • RVDV:

      “as you frequently call out TZ for spreading lies and propaganda, and granted, they usually do.”

      I do not recall calling out TodaysZaman for spreading lies and propaganda.
      So if you would point me to the posts where I have said that, will take a look: see what is it that I wrote that may have given you the impression..

      (I have said Azeri sites News.az and Today.az spread lies and propaganda).

      Both TodaysZaman and Hurriyet report whatever they report fairly accurately.
      TodaysZaman more so. Hurriyet has more of a pro-Turkish (nationalist) State bias. (a little too obvious)
      I believe both have a bias for the State. And they both have Turkish bias: nothing wrong with that; natural. Don’t know who owns/runs HDN. But TZ is a Gulen operation, and Gulen’s advocacy is well known. That’s how the world works.
      In the USA, the corporate owned and operated media is a mouthpiece for the State or Corporations.
      They report whatever they report fairly accurately: but the bias comes in what they do not report.

      Regarding TodaysZaman: I give them kudos for bravely publicizing some dark stuff in the Turkish society.
      I also give them kudos for posting large numbers of comments by Armenians that question and challenge official Turkish lines, and positions of TZ columnists. And they have some good columnists. Mr. Orhan Kemal CENGİZ in particular is very brave and righteous.
      HDN also has couple of good columnists. In fact I first learned about Mustafa Kemal’s Nazi-like Racial Purity experiments from Mr. Mustafa Akyol of HDN.
      So I have to say your recall of my position on TZ is incorrect.

    • The Ergenekon plotters killed Hrant Dink to bring discredit the current government, and they viewed killing an Armenian as a matter of no consequence. They miscalculated, but only a little. They now profit from that death in an unanticipated way.

      Grieving for Dink is something nationalists now do, so it makes them look humane. Initially, they filled the papers five years ago with stories that Armenans killed Dink. Now they grieve for him as if this is a substitute for treating the Armenians in theirr country justly, and dealing honestly with the Genocide of the Christian peoples. Public demonstrations of sympathy are not a substitute for justice.

      The real black heart of Turkey is seen in the pictures of the police smiling and laughing with Ogun Samast. That is how many Turkish Nazis feel.

      RVDV, I agree that 10 years ago no one would have grieved in public for any Armenian. But the nationalists have tried once again to turn Armenian death to their advantage.

  69. Guys French Senate didn’t Pass a Bill Criminalizing just the Armenian Genocide Denial, according to French officials reply to Turks “this is not directed to a specific county” therefore; Please my friends; by adding Armenian Genocide you are diluting the power of the Bill that French Senate passed, think about it, what they passed automatically applies not just to Armenian Genocide by Turks and mass killings of Armenians in Sumgait, Baku, Kirovabad by their Azeri Kardashlar, it covers all the evils acts committed by any Government or people against innocent masses before passage of this Bill and ones after.

    • Which is why any rational government wouldn’t overreact in such a way. If you are so confident that your version of history is true, why would you care what France passes. The reaction by Turkey makes them look even more guilty.

  70. Next are Israeli Knesset and German Bundestag

    • avatar Sylva-MD-Poetry // January 26, 2012 at 5:12 am //

      Paul…
      Did you forget England…
      Not Scotland…Not Wails:
      as their MP’s recognized Armenian genocide…with pride…

      But England is England pretending they are humans
      Their M.P’s…I’m sure are bribed…by many ways
      Invitation and eating dolmas…on Turkish shores

      England…Is another state were there are no human rights…
      They look to Armenians as they are minorities…

      “We don’t have wealth…We don’t have scimitars…”
      So we do’t have power…To kill and handle them bribes…
      Khatchars… doesn’t help us
      Our hands can’t confiscate… but can build and paint
      Waiting others to destroy and feel victorious…
      Shame on English M.P’s and their poets…
      They have no feelings…They should hide them selves…

      Germany is another site
      If they recognize
      Turks will vanish Merkel’s palace…
      Not forgetting their famous arch…
      Because they shared together
      To end Armenian lives…

      SP

    • avatar sylva-MD-Poetry // January 26, 2012 at 5:45 am //

      About Israel…
      Some Jews are very fair …
      As in every nation and every where…

      Who defined Genocide because of Armenians was
      Rafael Lemkin: 1900-1959
      And like ambassador Henry Morgenthau,Sr. :1956-1946
      With his historical book ” The murder of a Nation”:
      [He had come to see Turkey as a place of horror]

      Don’t forget Jesus-Christ was a Jew as well…
      In him we believed and even muslims believe in him
      His name is mentioned 25 times in the Qur’ran
      Only they don’t believe that he was the ‘Son of God’

      He came for Jews not for others…and they betrayed him…
      But we accepted him …Because he was fair…
      He cared for every human…
      He applied human right laws by his genes…
      Without learning from any one…

      Arab Muslims they call his name Isa and his mother’s name Mariam…
      But I never head a Turkish person use both names from Qur’ran…
      Muslim mothers pray for Mariam (Mary) to have a child…
      If they are unable…

      As I’m getting old …I reached to a conclusion to say,
      “Nations are group of people with different genetics
      Some apply human rights naturally without reading any book
      and some… they read but never apply…”

      Sylva-MD-Poetry

      SP

  71. avatar gaytzag palandjian // January 24, 2012 at 6:44 pm // Reply

    A small correction,if I may to OSIK,
    Bill passed a slaw at Senate in France clearly states that ¨denial of the ARMENIAN GENOCIDE is subject to one yer prison and 45000 Euros fine¨.
    Indeed it also makes mention of others too,but the heading of it is as abvoe.
    BTW,dear compatriots, I just talked to old more than 30 yrs old friend in Marseille and right after Bon soir,I uttered Vive La France twice…and then during conversation,while she insisted my french was good and I replying ..enough to get by…anyhow It came to me b y and by and I intend tpo make it appear on many an Armenian or non so the phrase that follows and is of my creations…:-
    ¨LES ARMENIEN DE TOUT LE MONDE, NOUS SOMMES TOUJOURS UN PEUT FRANCAIS, A PARTIR DE ÁUJORD´HUI¨¨ ….
    NEAR CORRECT TRANSLATIONS.-
    Armenians of the world , we are always a little French,AS OF TODAY…
    This event is of a very important significant ,however you turn it!!!!!
    It will ,first of all TRIGGER A CHAIN REACTION IN ALL EUROPE AND THEN TRAVEL OVER THE ENGLISH CHANNEL AND ATLANTIC OCEAN!!!!

    • Lets hope it will create a chain reaction.. i hope our generation will continue to fight and make that happen..

      And yes ARmenians around the world are indeed a little French as of the law passing…

      Gayane

  72. Dear Gaytzag Palandjian,

    My source was the following from “ASBAREZ.COM” where I can see has more political weight on it which I think was one of the several amendments to make it global not specific just to increase the chances of its passage:

    “During the proceedings, members of the French Senate spoke powerfully and vocally in support of the bill. They noted that the bill is not directed against any specific country, and that it is merely an effort to honor the memory of genocide victims and struggle against hate speech.”

    This came after Turkey started threatening France and was a very smart move by France.

    BTW, ASBAREZ used the “Armenian Genocide” version on the headline too.

  73. This is the justice…..
    Der Al Zor is the live witness of Genocide,

  74. Freedom a la Orwell – send people to jail over their opinions…

    • VeskoD.. not sure if you were just making a statement or you simply could not complete the sentence you started.. cause it does not make sense…sorry…..

    • A very easy hypocrisy test for those who oppose this bill.

      Vesko, I’d appreciate if you could please answer me two things:

      1) Have you been complaining for years about the Holocaust Denial Criminalization laws that have been in force for *decades* in many European countries? Do they too constitute “freedom a la Orwell”?

      2) Have you been complaining for years about Turkish Article 301, which sends people to jail over their acknowledgment/”opinion” about the Armenian genocide? Does Article 301 too constitute “freedom a la Orwell”?

      If you answer yes to both of these, then I’ll engage you in a discussion about why hate speech provisions are actually beneficial for free speech. But if you answer no–and, frankly, I’ve never seen you post on here before about Article 301–then I can say that you don’t really care about free speech, but your problem is actually with the Armenians. If that’s the case, then you discredit yourself because you’ve revealed your prejudice.

      Regards.

    • avatar Sylva-MD-Poetry // January 25, 2012 at 12:51 am //

      It is not an opinion … Read this and differentiate between
      opinion of helping people or planning to kill…!

      It is disgracing
      For all human beings…
      To say, “you are worthless
      I must kill …I must vanish you
      So i can live and confiscate what you have
      You must die
      i enjoy to kill you
      You…and you and others
      Who cary the same genes like you…
      You don’t exist in my life
      In my dictionary
      For… you are a useless fly…”

      “So, is this human opinion or a criminal opinion …
      Must be punished if his thinking goes this way…
      Like a child trying to kill his cat do you accept…
      or you punish him if he thinks so…”

      Sylva-MD-Poetry

  75. VeskoD says:
    ‘Freedom a la Orwell – send people to jail over their opinions…’

    I say:
    There is a world of difference between opinions and lies…

  76. avatar Sylva-Md-Poetry // January 25, 2012 at 7:56 am // Reply

    Please, this modified further… keep this , Thanks

    French: the Bastillian’s and their ‘Liberation Genes’

    Come my enemy
    Let us be friends
    For just…few hours only…

    You can ask me…endless questions
    Can I ask you…’The only one’…and final one …?
    Why you slayed Us…The Armenians…?
    ( Sultan uzezh chinchel Mazi)
    Wanting always to vanish our genes…
    Because we were honest…toil…fair…?

    That question is impregnated in my astrocytes
    Extending every day…through inside my dendrites
    Never will atrophy…even Alzheimerate!
    Not only mine but in every Armenian…
    and everyone who seeks human’s right…

    Come let us talk together
    Face to face
    Side by side
    Let your eyes look at my eyes
    I want to read your heart…
    Through your eyes…
    Liston to your tongue…
    I know your language… since I was child…
    I learned at home by hearing your beautiful proverbs;
    Which was never applied on any race…

    Why and why… you hated us…
    Because we were
    Elegant…educated… polite…keen…populace
    Yet, You treated us worse than slaves …
    If we were slaves you would have never slayed us…

    Building you homes your minarets
    Painting you pashas’ photos…
    Paying taxes higher than yours
    Decorating you with jewels…gold and gems
    Repairing your clocks…watches…and
    Designing your home doors…your gates…
    And & and…and countless ands…

    We were clean honest citizens…
    Everyone who knows us…
    They can swear…heartily
    That we are and were real honest friends
    From the East oceans till the West

    Thus… still you were not satisfied…
    You wanted Us to ‘vanish bare’
    Even not to see us…
    As…growing orphans…
    Taking everything from us…

    What else you are heading to take more…!
    Tell us what else left to take…!
    Nothing left for us
    That you can confiscate

    Except our dignity…honesty…
    Our hands…Our eyes looking far…
    To Our Armenian Highlands…Where we belonged
    To our mount Ararat… before B.C…
    That you confiscated as well…giving a new name ( Agri Dagi)

    Something you can never take…from us… that is
    Love and kindness
    That we eternally possess…That born with us
    As it exist in our genes…in our DNA…s

    It regenerated from one cell …
    And will continue to regenerate
    To remain and seed again…
    To invent and serve humanity…

    You should know very well…
    And the humanity knows it…as well…
    So…they arrived willingly to help
    Our genocided orphans’ cohort…

    Hence…they studied very-well
    What your ancestries did…
    Was unjust…
    Unfair…!

    Sylva
    January 25, 2012

    “France’s commitment was extremely brave;
    Bastillians do not glitter for metals in a safe.
    Liberty is in their genetics, thus abide.
    Their pride transcends in liberation rights.”
    (A Poetic Soul Shined of Genocides, August 2008)

    Sylva-MD-Poetry

  77. Turkey needs to grow up and act like a responsible adult, not some thuggish kid who keeps trying to hide his dirty deeds, which by the way, everyone saw him do. Acknowledge what your ‘ancestors’ did, apologize to every living Armenian, return every property and ask for forgiveness. It was Turkey and the CUP who were racist to the core, as well as murderous criminals and thieves. Stop blaming the victim, Mr. Erdogan…the world knows what happened very well, as they were there in 1915 watching. And, so do many Turks, who have heard eyewitness testimony from family members, some of whom were and are, Armenian. You cannot keep going with the farce and the lies of the CUP any longer. It was murder then and it is just a huge lie now. No one takes Turkey’s position serioiusly, other than well paid hacks like Bruce Fein and others in his camp. Just STOP! By defending the CUP, you are the joke of the world. Face it.

  78. Gayane,

    I can only feel sorry for you. As usual, your cowardice, bigotry and racist potty mouth preceeds you.

    To the Armenians,

    What has transpired on the 23rd in France is a sad state of how low politicians will sink. Unfortunately, this is prevalent everywhere, and is a clear indication of the racism of Europe. Since none of you have the backbone to accept our continuous invitations to a debate, you have chosen a path which will indeed lead you down a path which you can not imagine. That’s why I said that things are now in God’s hands. We did try to warn all of you, but still you listened to the misdirections of your ARF Dashnak party. Too late will you understand the repercussions of the slippery slope that you are all on. May God have mercy upon you all for what is about to come, and will be a testament of your fate and the non-stop lies and deceit which you’ve spread throughout the ignorant people within the Christian world. Sadly, your “celebration” is doomed to be short lived. Once the Pandora’s Box has been opened, it can not easily be closed again!

    • Robert please stop spewing your nonsense and never ever threaten anyone here. EVER.. understand?

      a. There is no reason to debate and you dear turk are just avoiding the obvious.
      b. Th AG is already accepted by most all credible scholars including the IAGS..so more debate? Just more nonsense.
      c. Further, in 2005 both Armenians and Turks asked the International Center for Transitional Justice to conclude on the events of 1915 and they unequivocally deemed the events as genocide, yet the Turks just ignored that ruling and now want “more debate”.
      d. The very word “genocide” was invented by Rafael Lemkin who used the Armenian case as his example..But Turks again know more then what this mans word means?

      Dude grow up.. Your the only coward who can’t come to terms with your peoples ugly past..

    • John jan.. Robert the Turk pretends he knows nothing…… and to NO surprise to me, acts like he is the Grand Messiah of all Turkish people…he loves to threaten… and he has obsession with ARF and debate… two things he has no clue..

    • Robert,

      I have a good memory. I guess you don’t.

      You say that Armenians lack the courage to debate. There is no reason they should.

      However, I challenged your “bey” – your honorific, not mine – Ergun Kirlikovali to do just that. On the net I challenged him three years ago to a $50,000.00 purse debate, on the issue of whether a Genocide at the hands of the Ottomans took place, to be judged by a retired appellate justice to be agreed upon, formerly of the California Court of Appeal. The loser also would pay the fees of the justice.

      Mr. Kirlikovali ran away from the internet for a few days after that, and never responded, just as he never responded to my invitation to box at Camp Pendleton with a referee running the match.

      You Turk-Nazis love to threaten, but you always lose in a fair fight. The kind of fight against armed men instead of children and women. That is your great martial tradition – murdering Christians.

      I am more than happy to extend the offer to you. If you want to increase the purse, you may, but you may not lower it. If you accept, please leave me some way to contact you. Perhaps AW would be willing to collect your info and send it to me. I promise I won’t hurt you.

      On the other hand, I recall many dark threats of physical harm you also made against me, saying that your commando friends were going to find me and hurt me. I made you aware that I have that angle covered too. I still do.

      In truth Robert, any 95 year old nenne could kick your ass, because people with righteos anger are hard to overcome. So stop threatening people, especially women, and present your arguments in the civilized way Armenians have been presenting theirs for centuries.

    • jda jan.. Robert has been obsessed with me for a long time.. and it is very apparent these denialists have some sort of love obssession with so called debate they LOVE to throw at my face.. not sure why they don’t have the balls to invite people who can fold them in two and that will be that.. still a mystery…

      good for you to offer and stand behind your invite.. it is obvious these denialists’ bark is nothing but a puppy’s whine…

      Gayane

  79. Kerim,

    And who has appointed you to the grand post of idiocy? Or were you dropped head down in your childhood or something?

  80. avatar gaytzag palandjian // January 25, 2012 at 5:17 pm // Reply

    Dear robert,
    Above Karekin-of whatever creed,race or belief he is-has very clearly defined the CASE/Cause,Armenians are pursuing.Believe me it is not the ARF Tashang party or any other Armenian political party ONLY.IT IS THE PEOPLE,the Armenian people, that has resurfaced like a Phoenix(Dr. Astarjian remarks) and will not rest until justice is delivered to the souls of our ancestors.Their belongings returned to their heirs…
    I agree,we should not act as though we have won a battle a war.what has transpired by the Bill become quassi a Law(like in Switzerland) is the TRIUMPH of our martyrs. On whose behalf others non Armenians are now acting ,have become our attorneys…defending our rights.
    So like the French FM said, be calm, it is nothing that your nation cannot bear. When i write ALL OF THE ARMENIAN PEOPLE, i include those who regardless of faith, language, creed,ideological tendencies FEEL THEY AR ARMENIAN, that´s all. So easy ,please easy..we can still become good neighbours!!!
    At least this is my belief!!!!

  81. Robert, instead of veiled threats of another Genocide, you should be asking questions of your own Turkish Govt. Like, “why the_____(enter your own swear word here)’ are “possibly thousands” of tortured and murdered prisoners being dug-up at some “deep state” Turkish Gestapo (and that’s exactly what they are) prison in Diyarbakir? Here’s the cincher, it supposedly happened in the 90′s ?!!!!!
    That means you resumed your genocidal practices AFTER your previous Genocide-naughty,naughty boys (or is that Wolves)?
    As if that wasn’t enough shame for a country, why the buddy-buddy Bashir murderer/Turkish love affair with a man who HAS BEEN CHARGED by the UN with Genocide (currently).?
    I think we would be interested in knowing just how much you ( and some others) get paid for writing that ____.?
    “slippery slope”?, come on Robert (may I call you Bob?), your the only ones
    left who fear your Govt. You’re going to be surprised when we break-open your Pandoras Box. Most likely what’s inside is your own “regime change”-cheer up.
    There is hope.

  82. Don’t waste your time with these guys. Never concede even an inch to them even if you know they are right (e.g,, AG recognition), because it is not truth and acknowledgement they seek, but to harm Turks/Azeris as much as they can. Don’t help them in their vendetta against your country and people. Those Turkish human right activists promoting AG recognition in Turkey must be given education, and if they fail to see the real Armenian intentions behind their AG-recognition campaign (territorial claims, destructive compensation from Turks), then they must be tried for treason.

    • Kerim,

      I owe an apology.

      But not to you.

      I owe it to those i criticized for not treating you politely since you admit the AG.

      The things you say are appalling.

      You admit the Genocide, which means the theft of lands, culture, buildings, every conceivable thing.

      But you view the demand by the victims (who are all the Christian subjects) and human rights activists as an illicit attack on those who hold stolen property.

      Your position amounts to the most vicious of all positions: our ancestors killed yours, and there is nothing to be done about it. The run of the mill Turkish Nazi covers his bloodlust by denying Genocide.

      If the rule of the jungle applies, why do we care about justice for Palestinians, or any other victim group?

      Your characterization of Turkish rights activists as traitors plays to the same blood thirst that has been killing Armenians and Turks for a century. Hrant Dink is one
      victim. Ali Kemal Bey is another.

      I hope you become humane before you die.

    • avatar Grish Begian // January 26, 2012 at 1:00 am //

      Ağa Kərim, catch your pants before they fall!!! You must be an AzerPYchni Turk advising your comrad big brother Turk oghlu John The Turk!! You just become newly crowned Turk 20 years ago, before that you were a Tatar-Turk, what happened to you??where have you been hiding during Garabgh war???

  83. [syc•o•phant (sk-fnt, sk-) n. A servile self-seeker who attempts to win favor by flattering influential people.]

    Turk-oglu AzeriTurk Kerim:

    I can assure you that there are no favours I can grant Gayane. And I have absolutely zero influence on her personal or professional life.
    So before you throw out English words you do not know the meaning of, get your ESL (English Second Language) Certificate before you start insulting Armenians @AW.

    Remember: you are a Turk-oglu AzeriTurk guest at an Armenian site.
    Gayane is an Armenian; so am I. Behave like the guest you are.
    I drove one of your Turk buddies over the edge for misbehaving: I know all the dirty tricks in the book.
    Don’t insult my friends. Be nice, and we’ll be nice to you.

    Now, that you know what Gayane is not, let me tell what she is: she is a Patriot that supports her compatriots unconditionally.
    We Armenians need more like her. Men and women that thought and behaved like her were the ones who won independence for Artsakh.
    Not the type that sit around a table discussing endlessly whether or not Azeri mobs were actually massacring Armenians in Kirovabad or just having a neighborly disagreement.

    Man or woman, if I was in a trench, I would want someone like Gayane to have my back, instead of some wishy-washy guy that can’t decide who is the invader – until there is a bayonet at his throat.

    Reason you cannot stand her is precisely because Armenians like her defeated massacring invader AzeriTurk goons.
    And reason you are full of rage is because you got shot down on the Kirovabad-challenge, and instead of acknowledging you got bested, you are dumping your bile on a 3rd person.
    You got an issue – take it out on me pal.
    I am the one who rained on you parade.

  84. avatar john the turk // January 25, 2012 at 6:50 pm // Reply

    Kerim
    “””Never concede even an inch to them even if you know they are right (e.g,, AG recognition), because it is not truth and acknowledgement they seek, but to harm Turks/Azeris as much as they can. Don’t help them in their vendetta against your country and people”””

    It has been a little bit late but you seem to have understood the fact

  85. avatar john the turk // January 25, 2012 at 7:01 pm // Reply

    Sylva
    “””To Our Armenian Highlands…Where we belonged
    To our mount Ararat… before B.C…
    That you confiscated as well…giving a new name ( Agri Dagi)”””

    What are you going to do in the Armenian High land? I know that you will go there and spend a few days and get bored and ask we Turks if you can have a few days holiday in the southern turkish resorts and crawl in the the beautiful part of the country.When you are enjoying your holiday, you will suddenly claim that Tigran the Great had visited the area , therefore the southern Turkey is the Armenian plain. What do we do then?

    • What you can do J The Turk..again John is a Christian name and not sure why you resume having that name with the word Turk… is beyond me..

      What you can do is get your head out ofyour denialist you know what.. and start actually understanding what ARmenians are trying..instead of brewing idiotic comments like your comrad Kerim Bey who does not know what he is talking about.. i don’t know what camp you denialists are being trained at, but your leaders are definintely not doing a good job educating you..

      So instead of mocking Sylva about her post, i would look in the mirror first…

      Have a nice day sir..

      Gayane

  86. avatar Sylva-MD-Poetry // January 25, 2012 at 9:42 pm // Reply

    Some they read…
    But don’t understand what they read …
    Because they don’t feel…
    They look human
    But without humanitarian grace.

    Sylva

  87. Don’t assume Ragnar is an academic. Here is his resume

    http://www.developmentsupport.no/CV/cvragnar.RTF

    • JDA jan.. Ragnar has been long dismissed as an academic… but then again, he has not realized that himself yet.. truly sad…

      thank you for the resume.. very enlightening..:)

      Gayane

  88. avatar Sylva-md-Poetry // January 26, 2012 at 7:04 am // Reply

    Let us feel with other Genocides and Help them…
    Hear their song their music…
    Rawandan genocide…

    I think France will continue to do for every genocide
    so everyone can awake…
    Not to commit more…
    Or to think to commit more

    If you can’t get it here go to You Tube and Type
    Genocide Songs
    You will see Dr. Minasian playing piano there with genocide music…
    and send some congrats…

  89. “I can easily say that if they [Armenians] can, they would have removed the Turks from the face of the earth.”

    Not convincing, Resoman –

    You want to convince yourself that Armenians, too, can be as barbarous and bloodthirsty as your Ottoman Turks, but you just float in the realm of assumptions. Facts are stubborn things. During the NK war of self-determination, Armenians, as a winning side, could harm the Azeri-Turk civilians, but they didn’t. Read Avery’s posts.

    You just have to admit that certain cultural, spiritual, attitudal, and behavioral characteristics that are typical to one nation maybe untypical or less typical to the other.

  90. “Don’t forget Jesus-Christ was a Jew as well…”

    Sylva: God has no ethnic origin; consequently His Son, conceived by Holy Spirit using Mary’s body, cannot belong to any ethnicity.

    • Paul,

      That is not the theology of the Orthodox Church, or the Catholic, or the main line Protestants. After we had this argument two weeks ago i even asked a Der Hyr.
      I even cited to you the portion of the Nicene Creed stating among other things that Jesus was “fully man.”

      You are absolutely entitled to your opinions. Perhaps you are a theologian. But you are speaking solely for the Church of Paul.

      Jesus was a Jew. It wasn’t even clear for many years that followers of Christ were something other than just another Jewish sect.

  91. So tell us, if/when Turkey’s ultra-nationalists clear away every last minority (which is impossible….as if Turks themselves are a very unmixed bunch)…will it solve all of Turkey’s problems? Will Turkey become unblemished and pure? Is this the Turkish fascist dream? The ethnic cleansing of Armenians, Kurds, Greeks and others…the destruction of their historic patrimony, is all part of a larger scheme of Turkification, as instituted by the evil, non-Turks who masterminded the CUP. You should all be ashamed to continue any part of their murderous agenda or to defend it. There is alot of blood on the hands of the Turkish government, both from then and now, and no amount of lies can wash them clean. That’s the bottom line.

  92. I hope that both the US and the United Kingdom will pass the Armenian Genocide Bill and prompt Turkey to recognize the Armenian Genocide and start paying reparations to the heirs of the fallen martyrs of the Genocide. After almost 97 years we are still waiting for this. It’s about time.

    • I think you should stop waiting for any reparations. Even if Turkey recognizes AG, I’m sure that there will not be much of an indemnity. We could ask for reparations to Ottoman Empire, which is now long gone.

    • That is your own opinion Kako… and that opinion of yours is absolete…

  93. Bravo to Gayane, Avery, Parandzem Rshtouni, Ara K, Sylva, Gaytzag, Alex, Hairenakitz, Raffi, Armen, Jda and Grish. One thing for sure our 2,000,000 martyrs’ souls + the annihilated in Sumgeit, in Baku and Hrant Dink’s souls are resting in peace now. I salute the brave and the mighty France’s admirable Senate. I hope the rest of the western countries will follow course.

  94. So, we have a child, a teenager who is reaching adulthood, and starts reading old newspapers, and learns some very disturbing things about his mother…he also talks to various friends and neighbors…and learns that mom had some kind of major breakdown that has been hidden for years. She was a prostitute who lived on the kindness of others, then eventually murdered his brothers and sisters and threw him out.She had some kind of rehabilitation along the way and was reintegrated into the neighborhood. He was the only survivor. Now, years later, this information is coming to light, but he is not allowed to speak about it to anyone. However, he feels that in order to alleviate his mother’s psychosis and disfunctional existence, he must discuss this with her in the open in order to clear the air and cleanse the path to the future. Mom, of course, resists. It is shameful, embarrassing and hurtful. Yet, by keeping this under wraps, the stress is destroying mother from within. She’s conflicted and lashes out at small things, feels threatened all the time and is very insecure, so talks big whenever she can. She even threatens some good old friends who mention the old days, as if punishing them will be a good thing in the long run. The worst part is that her kid just wants her to apologize to him so they can have a new start in life. It would be so easy and help to forge a new direction in their relationship. Yet mom keeps resisting and even denying the past to everyone, as if no one saw her push the dirt under the rug. Perhaps mother has not reached her own level of emotional maturity yet, and this is holding her back. She things the son wants something from her, an old scarf, her worn shoes, but she is wrong…all he wants is an honest, loving embrace from someone he used to admire and care for, but who has become someone very different. It maybe difficult, or perhaps, impossible, as this psychosis is very deep, the scars indelible, no matter how much makeup she wears, but he will keep trying until mom can honestly discuss her past with him without threats or repercussions. And, when that day comes, they can start anew and move forward into the future as new people, aware of their past, but unafraid of it, uninhibited by it and with new resolve to never allow such things to happen again, either between them or with anyone else – ever.

  95. avatar gaytzag palandjian // January 27, 2012 at 3:47 pm // Reply

    Dear Seervart, et al
    I second you in wishing that teh Anglo-American diplomacy and in extension Govt.s kindly and logically consider to make the NEXT MOVE,after France.
    if not ponalizing Denial of Armenian Genocide in their respective countries(Also Canada, New Zealnad Australia, etc., etc.) ACKNOWLEDGE OFFICIALLY CULPABILITY OF OTTOMAN TURKEY and :::their HEIRS,PRESENT GREAT TURKEY WHO ALSO ARE AUTOMATICALLYU CULPABLE FOR OVER 70 YEARS IN OBSTINATELY DENYING THAT THEIR PRECEDENT GOVT.S COMMITTED G E N O C I D E …..THUS BECOMING RESPONSIBLE FOR PAST HUGE GUILT/CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY AND ESPECIALLY THEIR RAYA E R M E N I S (ARMENIANS)
    M E A N WHILE I INSIST AND URGE THAT THE DIASPORA(S) REORGANIZE THEMSELVES, CREATE NATIONAL INVESTMENT TRUST FUND AND PLAN ……REPATRIATION!!!!!
    We cannot depend on RA Gov.t or Artsakh for organizing that.They are busy with strengthening national Army and also many a problem the country faces and also…(this must be said) pocketing their share of the Funds received as loans or non returnable aids from overseas….
    Like the All Armenia fund the ¨National investment Fund¨¨ must be seperate.even more so,as this will be for all A R M E N I T Y…even for any Community country Armenians that heaven forbid suffer a bad earthquake(as example9 or similar landslide etc.,
    We must be prepared and
    We must start Fund and REPATRIATION!!!!
    Just wrote another Article Manifest, callit what not on …
    http://www.armeniannews.info
    In this connection , putting accetn on our Young and Youth…
    Acting as AUXILLARY BODIES OF THE PCA´S(PROFESSIONA L COLLEAGUES ASSOCIATIONS)
    BEST TO ALL HAYPORTI AND
    iN ANY CASE..
    VIVE LA FRANCE FOR PASSING THE lAW !!!!!!

  96. jda: no, I’m not perhaps a theologian. Moreover, any canonical interpretations by this or that denomination are not a guiding light for me. The Scripture is. I have hard time believing that any Der Hayr would say that Jesus Christ was ONLY fully human. Since He is Christ, i.e. the Messiah, He’s by definition greater than any human being because He was God before He was born in the flesh: “In the BEGINNING was the Word … and the Word was God” (John 1:1).
    Followers of Christ might have been Jews, but they increasingly called themselves Christians, didn’t they? Also, a “sect” in a literary sense of the word can hardly number in billions (as of now).

    • Paul,

      You have misread my comment by inserting the word “only.” Christ was fully God and fully man except that He was without sin. His human nature had an ethnicity. Would you like to ask a Der Hyr? Go ahead.

      My comments about the sect were also limited…I said

      “Jesus was a Jew. It wasn’t even clear for many years that followers of Christ were something other than just another Jewish sect.”

  97. I am turkish and tired of hearing the same issues in all my life over and over and over again. AG, Cyprus problem, Kurdish separatist terror, and now the country leaning towards the arab world and islam.

    Turkish state should recognize AG with the condition that Turkey cannot be held responsable and accountable for it. The state should express a formal apology for the crime that Ottomans are committed, and get over with this issue.

    • KakO.. i am sorry but it is not only an apology… apology is the first step.. sorry a murderer or the inheritant of the murderer can’t just apologize and move on.. they have to pay back whatever is possible that was stolen from the one he or she murdered..

      If you are tired of hearing it.. then is not clear that it is your govt’s fault for prolonging what is right??

      what are you going to do about at least fixing your comrads’ messed up mentality??

  98. I am Turkish, and I am tired to see the same issues in my entire life over and over again. AG, Cyprus problem, Kurdish separatist terror, and now the country leaning more than ever to conservatism and religion.

    Turkish state should recognize AG with the condition that Modern Turkey cannot be held responsible to the crimes committed by the Ottomans, thus no financial and territorial indemnity can be given to the victims. The state should declare an official apology to the armenian people, and close this issue.

    Unfortunately people that I vote for never win elections.

    • Kako.. you must be in your dream and has not woken up yet… the state SHOULD AND WILL provide financial and territorial indemnity … would not you and the rest of the denialists love to see just an apology …..

      nice try but no cigar for you sir…

    • I’ve never denied anything, but I see over and over that you say even a slightly different opinion and you get branded as fascist, denialist, or even nazi.

      There are many people here in Turkey too with similar mentality: if you don’t think like me, than you are against me and you need to be eliminated. And I see that Armenians are the same.

      I’ll comment no further in this site. Discussion this issue with Armenians in person is way more interesting than blind and deaf internet commentaries.

  99. KAko –

    The Republic of Turkey is a legal successor of the Ottoman empire and the prescribed punishment for the crime of genocide, according to the UN Genocide Convention, is not subject to the limitations of time and place.

    • Thanks, didn’t know that the Genocide Convention has that. I see that would pose a problem.

    • it is very odd that you did not know UN Genocide convention explanation on Genocide and time and place.. well if that is the case..when you don’t know something that is very well known to those who truly understand what Genocide is and the implication on the human race and what high ranking organization say about it.. then I would suggest you do your research and maybe independent study before expressing your thoughts…

      Not sure if you want us to weep or be sad because you decided not to post here anymore..Armenians are very open and willing to accept any Turk who is willing to post on these pages but TRUST YOU ME.. we will not allowe lies, and made up and messed up thoughts and facts thrown by Turk denialists…you will be shut down..

  100. KAko –

    If your neighbors burn your parents alive, gang-rape your sister, and crush your newborn’s head against the wall (these are not horror stories, these are factual methods employed by ‘civilized’ Turks during the AG), then move to your house, steal your property, bank accounts, and cultural edifices, and then after 97 years come to you under international pressure (not by his own) and offer you an apology, would you not be entitled to demand compensation for the loss of life, house, properties, and psychological and moral trauma inflicted upon you and your next-of-kins?

    • Of course you would. But if grand-grand fathers of your neighbors do this to your grand-grand fathers, it’s a bit different. So many years passed since.

      BTW I see often that it is an employed method to give some graphic details on the murders. It’s trying to give an emotional argument to an pragmatic issue. I think the murder is the crime here, not its method. The same kind of killing has also been done in Turkish villages by Armenian raids before AG (not that it justifies AG).

    • “The same kind of killing has also been done in Turkish villages by Armenian raids before AG (not that it justifies AG).”

      Turks such as you, KAko, love to play that moral equivalency game: it will never work.

      Before AG there was the Hamidian massacre of about 300,000 Armenians (1895). Followed by Adana: about 30,000 Armenians (1909).

      Whatever killings Armenians did has been for self defense or righteous retribution. Armenians have no doubt killed Turk civilians (against orders). Massacres of Armenian civilians, on the other hand, have been organized and carried out on orders of the Turk authorities.

      And if you are still confused as to who started the killings, remember this immutable historical fact: there were NO Turks in Asia Minor prior to about 1000 AD. We know for a fact that Turks started killing Armenians first. How do we know this ? Because Armenians did not leave their ancestral homeland and invade the homeland of Turks. Because nomadic Seljuk Turk tribes left their ancestral homeland in East and Central Asia, travelled about 3,000 Kilometers due West, and invaded the Armenian Highlands in-force.

      And we know Seljuk Turks did not come in peace, because we have this thing called the ‘Battle of Manazkert 1071’. It is not called the ‘Annual Exhibition of New Swords and Shields at Manazkert’. Turks boast about their military victory at Manazkert. They don’t boast about their trading success.

    • The same kind of killing has also been done in Turkish villages by Armenian raids before AG (not that it justifies AG).

      kako- Then what’s your point?

      Also: “Some semi-official Turkish narratives now claim, in effect, that the Armenians actually carried out genocidal attacks on the Turks. Neo-Nazis and their scholarly enablers say that “the Jews” manufactured tall tales of the Holocaust in order to extort money and other concessions from postwar Germany. Neo-Confederates like Doug Wilson, a far-right pastor in Moscow, Idaho, tell their listeners with a straight face that the Civil War was nothing less than a defense of righteous Christian civilization and that blacks really didn’t mind slavery. These lies all serve current agendas — to demonize and minimize the historical claims of Armenians, Jews, and African Americans.”

      –Mark Potok. Something to think about Kako.

    • Graphic details are given Kako to show how barbaric your ancestors were.. to show that they did not just come in and simply shoot and killed innocent people.. innocent babies, women, and elderly… they used the most heinous avenues to destroy a race.. you appreciate the difference??? and Genocide is and wil be an emotional matter but the difference is… THERE IS NO ARGUMENT ABOUT GENOCIDE.. GENOCIDE happened.. we are not here to argue whether or not it occured..

      If you are not part of the main stream as you graciously bestowed upon the Armenians because your thinking hat does not mesh with us, and we throw people out who don’t think like us (such idiotic statement by you) then do something productive and start educating yourself FIRST and then start changing other denialists minds…

      have a nice day

    • avatar Resoman // April 6, 2012 at 8:52 am //

      “Because Armenians did not leave their ancestral homeland and invade the homeland of Turks. ”

      Hah! Armenians have left the ancestral homeland and built the Cilician Kingdom of Armenia. Which of course didn’t happen peacefully. Cilicia is hundreds of miles away from the Ancestral homeland of the Armenians.
      OK we stepped in here now we own this place. Is this the logic here? The Turks did the same. We all originated from Africa, there is our real ancestral homeland, homeland of all of us.

      Don’t tell me that the Armenians are 100% innocent people. There was an Armenian Empire in the 1st C. BC. under the king Tigran II (Tigran the Great).
      Do you know the meaning of the empire building? It costs lives of people, hundreds, thousands, sometimes millions.

      Human being is the all the same, they will kill whenever or wherever possible, if they can.

    • Resomen,

      I think ou should recheck your facts what we call GENOCIDE.. not empires against empires.. we are dealing with GENOCIDE.. that is the FACT that Turkey needs to face.. that people like you need to face.. AND REPAY…

      But we ARE telling you that ARmenians do not have such blood to kill innocent people for the intention of wiping out an entire nation… but we never said Armenians did not go against another .. BUT the difference between ARmenians took arms against your ancestors was that ARmenian empires went to wars/battles against another warring side that consisted of soldiers.. NOT gag of wild animals released on innocent women, children and eldery to murder without a heart and conscious in the intention of “lets murder as many as possible so we can get a better place in heaven with riches”.. you get my drift? Kabish??… you see the difference or are you still in your muddled up and messed up world???

      I get flabergasted most of the time when I keep reading such rubbish these denialists throw up on our pages.. just amazes me…

  101. Gayane jan, very good answers to KAko. And Berch you gave very good analogy to him.

  102. “thus no financial and territorial indemnity can be given to the victims. The state should declare an official apology to the armenian people, and close this issue.”

    wouldn’t that be nice KAko.

    You seem to have picked up on the Genocide Convention, but missed the more important item Berch mentioned: Modern Turkey is a legal Successor State to Ottoman Empire. Do you know what that means ?

    It means the successor state inherits both the Assets and Liabilities of the predecessor state. For example, Russia is legal Successor State of USSR. That is why they inherited the priceless UN Permanent Security Seat (one of only 5). Russia also paid off the debts accrued by USSR. Abides by treaties entered by USSR. A whole lot of things.

    Back to Modern Turkey: if Turks don’t want the liabilities of Ottoman Turkey, then they have to give up the assets – both liquid and illiquid – they inherited from OT. You don’t want to pay compensation for the AG ? OK: agree to give us back all our assets; we’ll put it to a vote of all Armenians worldwide: if it passes by a supermajority, we’ll call it even. Turks don’t have to recognize or apologize for the AG, we get our wealth and lands back – everybody happy.

    And I know you are tired, but see if you can reconcile your desire to just say “sorry” and move on, with PM Erdogan’s insistence that Israel not only apologize, but pay compensation for the 9 Turks killed on Mavi Marmara. Why not just close the issue ? Have you talked to the parents of those 9 Turks ? You think they would agree just to close the issue and move on ?

  103. Dear Mr. Palandjian,
    Although I wish time and again that the US, the UK, the rest of the European countries and other parts of the world would finally and in unison accept the Armenian Genocide as well as follow the good and the just deeds of the venerable France and their Senate, but after what Hillary Clinton said recently, I find that we are dealing with political figures that rather live in deceit, lies and kiss Genocide denier Turkey’s behind than to be honest with themselves and their souls. I truly wonder if Hilary Clinton has any soul at all. I have a good suggestion for her that if she wishes to see God when she passes away to redo and remake her entire soul altogether.

    On your other suggestion about repatriation is what I have wished now for a decade, but is it possible? Sure it is, but is it doable, I honestly wish so. In the best scenario what you are suggesting would be perfect, because most of the Armenians abroad that didn’t live under the communist regime are pretty much more affluent than our brothers who lived under the severe communist regime. Most of them were not able to tend to their families the way they wanted to, they lived through hard times and now a million exodus since the early 1990′s. The ones that are living outside since their birthtime, how many of them do you think would go to Armenia and under those circumstances when the government and the oligarchs are ruling the country with an iron fist and democracy nor the law doesn’t reign. I surely don’t know. It’s a wishful thinking, but is it doable? Moi je ne c’est pas.

  104. This morning I woke up and saw that facts are still facts and myths still remain as myths. Go figure! I think those French politicians have overestimated their mojo!

    • You must have been woken up on the wrong side of the bed Murat because facts that the THE WHOLE WORLD knows minus Turkey and all those who are bought or threatened by Turkey remain facts and myths that Turkey and her ilk believe remain myths..

      Top of the morning to you…

    • Not the bed, Gayane: the wrong side of reality. A whole lot of them are trapped in an alternative Universe, but somehow can access the web on planet Earth. Amazing.

    • LOL.. Ain’t that the truth Avery jan… amazing indeed…

  105. The French law by itself means little.

    Seldom will any French court prosecute anyone for its violation, and such prosecutions, when they ocur, will incite sympathy for the Devil.

    There is also the high risk that the ECHR will declare both this French law, along with the earlier Swiss one T-Nazi Dogu Preincek challenges, along with 301, invalid. We should not view these occurrences as defeats if they occur.

    We celebrate the law because it represents the first time in several years that a western nation stood up to Turkey on the issue, and refused to run away from a bully with imperial memories and aspirations. The passage of the law, by itself, is victory enough for me.

    The Turks will some day stop defending the OE. They make it an issue of honor only because the choose to do so. They should, if rational, distance themselves from the events of five generations ago.

    Why do they not? Why ally themselves with murderers and thieves?

    Because they see themselves as a superior race. Their “honor,” like that of other imperial nations carries with it an element of racism over the subjugated peoples. They hate having a dhimmi people speak up. I think that is what this is all about. So much of their imagery is full of deep hatred and victimhood, its amazing.

    • right on the point JDA…

      Turkey is and will be the epitomy of hatred and racial discrimination for a long time unless the West punishes her like and stops tip toeing around her. West need to follow what French did (again does not matter what the agenda behind the passing of this law was).. The mere action of passing the law despite the threats from Turkey shows French had some balls UNLIKE other countries who are still afraid of Turkey.. .

  106. Murat and those who claim that the French law means little and the facts remain facts.
    I’m afraid it’s not going to be like that. The myriad of Turkish and Azeri internet sites which promote denialism and fume racism at great scale will be forbidden and will not have free reign anymore.
    Very few cases of prosecution on de ground of such articles so far do not show that they have “incited sympathy for the Devil”.
    jda
    If the ECHR had the guts to do what you say it would have long ago declared article 301 invalid. If the article would ever have been repealed there would actually be no need for the Franch law.

  107. avatar gaytzag palandjian // February 1, 2012 at 12:11 am // Reply

    Chere Seervart,
    Though I can speak French a bit and write also,but not quite so well as to write here to you in French,a few short sentences’ perhaps.
    W/rgd to you query as to my ¨´suggested¨visions if you will or plans,take your choice as to REPATRIATION ,please go to web site…
    http://www.armeniannews.info …where I post mym articles it is to the top left hand side of the WEB Site(nice Armenian Young men in CA…owners) marked Users Articles and read my articles there.I have explained in detail THE PLAN.
    Je vous merci et a toute allors ,
    Cordialement,
    Gaytzag

  108. avatar Stephen T. Dulgarian // February 21, 2012 at 1:32 pm // Reply

    We again thank the French Parliament for the punishment of those whom don’t recognize the well documented Armenian Genocide of 1915-1923. My parents whom lived the Provences of Shabin KaraHissar & Erzerum lost not only their parents but their former wives and all their children and many of their relatives. My mother was the only survivor from her village of Gote. She had two children whom they bayoneted and died and the other died from hunger after 13 days on a death march. My mother survived because of Missionaires whom took her in. We thank Avery for his excellent answer back to those Turks whom shoud read up on the true history of what the Seljuk Turks, the Mongol Turks, & the Ottomon Turks did to Christian Populations of not only Asia Minor, but in Europe, Middle East & Northern Africa. The world must stand up to the Turkish state.

  109. There is little left to say. The denial of the Armenian Genocide is ridiculous given all the coverage from so many survivors and media, journalists from other countries, etc. I guess today’s “Turk” has nothing else to do. The phrase “me thinks they doth protest too much” applies here.

  110. Turks did the genocide its just they changed the history and they teach their kids that not turks but Armenians did the genocide,, turks kill more then 1.5 million Armenians. Armenians are very thankful that countries like FRACNE understand what turks did was double killing.

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