ADANA, Turkey—Seventy percent of teachers and students in Adana think that if the opportunity presents itself, some Jews, Greeks, and Armenians in Turkey would cause harm to the country.
The survey, conducted by the Education and Science Workers’ Union (Eğitim-Sen), polled 800 teachers and 1,066 students from various middle and high schools in Adana, reported the Turkish newspaper Radikal.
The participants in the survey were asked about a series of current issues in Turkey. Fifty-one percent think that “the Turks have no friends other than fellow Turks,” and 62 percent think Turks are “a nation of heroes and soldiers.”
I too agree with the results of the survey. Isn’t it obvious with their hatefull lobbys all around the world. The friend of a Turk is a Turk. And the enemy of our enemies may also be our friends. Let there be no mistakes no Greek or Armenian loves a Turk from the heart. I would not put the Jews in the sane class ad the Greeks & the Armenians; however treat all others who are not Turks with caution and suspicion.
What the hell did you just try to say Mustafa.. try to collect your thoughts first before you blurt out something that makes no sense…
but then again what do you expect from a Turkish nationalist.. who think everyone out to get Turks.. everyone especially Armenians are full of hate.. only those whose heads need to be examined for paranoia, hatefullness, and rage will think how you perceive others are with Turks.. get a life please..
Mustafa, spoken like a true “loyal” brainwashed Turk indeed. You can’t imagine how pathetic you sound. I can tell your response to this article came straight from the heart and it was quite spontaneous and instinctive, much like a potential prey responds to a predator in the wild. Did you even read the topic of this deliberate and hateful article? It is talking about the Jews, the Greeks and the Armenians of Turkey and you are psycho-babbling about the Armenian lobbies around the world. I must say the Turkish mentality has not changed over the last 100 years.
The population of Turkey today is about 80 million, of which perhaps 20 million are Kurdish which you used to cleverly call “Mountain Turks” so as to deny them their rights. The combined Armenian, Greek and Jewish population in Turkey is probably below 100 thousand, of which 50 thousand are native Armenians and 5 thousand Greeks. That leaves about 60 million Turks in Turkey. In other words, the combined Armenian and Greek populations constitute about 0.0009% out of 60 million Turks. To put it differently, there are 1,200 Turks for every Armenian and 12,000 Turks for every Greek. Are you telling me 100% of Turkish population, in charge of the government and the military, is fearful of 0.0009% Armenian and Greek populations? These numbers alone make you sound like a paranoiac xenophobe with schizophrenic severe mental disorder.
And, I wonder if you could elaborate for us what harm such a miniscule oppressed Armenian and Greek population with very little rights can do to 60 million Turks? I know you can’t because you and your statements are as hollow as the content of this article. These bogus surveys serve no purpose other than the fact that they are meant to measure the “loyalty” of the brainwashed Turkish population and how successful the institutionalized and hate-mongering Turkish education is toward indigenous non-Turks, the Armenians in particular.
This reminds of the years leading up to the year 1915 when the corrupt and genocidal Turkish government was successful in securing the loyalty of its unsuspecting population by brainwashing and poisoning their minds with carefully-crafted fallacies toward the Armenians in preparation for carrying out the Armenian Genocide. You are embarrassing yourself with lack of mental capacity to comprehend the realities around you and your bigotry has caught you dead in your track, much like a frozen deer caught in a head light. Do yourself a favor and get a life; you are not fooling anyone but yourself.
This is really sad. Let there be no mistake: For whatever has happened between Turkey and America if Turkey was threatened in the future America would come running(And do it clumsily and waste trillions of dollars and stomp the offenders into oblivion but I get ahead of myself). The problem is Turkey is in a part of the world that has had conflict for thousands of years and the root causes of those conflicts take a long time to get dealt with.
But for whatever conflicts there are Europe used to be worse! In 1945 everyone told the US to stay out of Europe. “Those Europeans hate each other and have been fighting for thousands of years, nothing you do is going to stop them” 60 years later and now the biggest characteristic of Europe is what a bunch of peaceniks they are!
So yes it looks like everybody hates everybody else but ultimately there is more to gain, more profit, from peace and trade than there is from War and conflict. You will look at your military expenditures and realize what a drain they are on national productivity.
If helping Turkey become democratic, progressive, and a leading country in the world, then Armenians, Greeks, and Jews would certainly harm Turkey.
Turks are heroes and soldiers. No argument with the second one, but the first must be a joke.
A classic and true definition and example of paranoia!
It’s obvious who has hurt whom. Adana used to have hundreds of thousands of Armenians and now there are none (or they’re hidden). But then again if you believe what they’ve taught you in the history books that the Armenians have committed genocide against the Turks, then of course you would agree with the survey results. But everything is out in the open. Turks are there and Amenians and Greeks and Assyrians and Jews are not.
It is profoundly shocking that “educated” people [i.e., the so-called science and education people and their students] are so shamelessly racist. The number of Greeks, Jews, and Armenians in Turkey is so small relative to the approximately 80 million Turks that it is absurd to consider these minorities a danger to the Turkish state. This kind of Turkish mentality follows directly from the Ottoman mentality. Not only is this racism despicable, but it also suggests that too many Turks are essentially very psychopathic, insecure people. Or perhaps their racism is connected with subconscious guilt for the horrific crimes against humanity that the Ottomans and Turks have perpetrated against non-Turks for decades and even centuries. The respondents to this poll are incredibly ignorant and pathetic people. So much for “Turkish pride”. I truly hope that the results of this poll are not representative of all Turks. I would like to think that there *have to* be some good, decent, moral, fair-minded, humanitarian Turks. People like Prof. Taner Akcam (whom I have never had the honor of meeting) should be a role model for all Turks.
Professor:
the survey says: {Fifty-one percent think that “the Turks have no friends other than fellow Turks,” }: obviously 49% do not think like the other 51%.
Also there are no, quote, 80 million Turks: According to TurkStat Turkey’s population at the end of 2012 was 75,627,384. And those 75.6 million are not all Turks. Depending who is counting, there are anywhere from 15 million to 25 million ethnic Kurds in that 75.6 million. Also an unknown number of other hidden ethnicities that are too afraid right now to “come out”.
Let us not repeat Turkish propaganda, which seeks to identify everyone in Turkey as ‘Turk’ and exaggerate their ‘Turk’ numbers.
Indeed, Armenians, Greeks, Jews will make Turkey Much powerful, and will harm them, by making them more Civilized!
But what is turkey? A country with a bloody past and Genocidal maniac state where Human being is considered a threat. Where Civilized Human being is looked as an enemy of a State and a criminal element.
So why we should think of living in Turkey, if we have CLAIMS, We have Demands of Justice! Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians should UNITE and Demand Justice for a Genocide, Reparations and We will Build our own States much Civilized and Prosperous.
Eastern regions still have the old motto from WWI and fears and hatred, so it needs better education and understanding to break those barriers and end stereotyping, if Jews, Armenians and Greeks (or any other nationals) choose to be Turkish they would not hard their country and home and Turks has friends everywhere as long as you talk to them and have an understanding
@Avery I must inform you of your ignorance on the issue of kurdish population.The total population of Eastern Turkey and Southeastern Turkey is approximately is 11 million
Also we know that millions of ethnic arab, zaza and turk living in the region. no one able to refer a census questionnaire in terms of race or ethnicity in Turkey.BTW Turkey is not based on ethnicity like Armenia let’s make a logical assumption
If you put the figure at 15 to 25 million Kurds in Turkey.
Could you exemplify 25 cities which have over 1 million kurdish
origin? (I know only one : istanbul :D and you?)
Do you intent to say the percentage of kurdish population %15 living in Turkey…
Rojin:
what is your estimate of how many Kurds there are in Turkey (as of 2012) ?
Rojin..
Why don’t you enlighten us how many of your “Turks” are actually 100% Turks.. please go ahead..
if you really do the testing.. DNA testing of your “Turks’ i have a feeling majority will have bloodline to Armenians, Greeks, Assyrians and whoever else your ancestors like satans and vicious butchers brutally murdered and stole their women..
So before you gloat about the numbers in Turkey, first understand where your numbers are coming from..
what a joke..
They want us dead, our memory dead, our churches dead, our Saviour dead, our language dead, our children dead, our places erased. Why does this shock us? Most Turks are Genocidal in one way or another, if they don’t want actually to kill, they ridicule, torment, oppress, terrorize, and deny.
The term “the friend of a Turk is a Turk” from a (current) political perspective is quite wrong: every western nation on this Earth is the ultimate friend of Turkey, and the Turks could not have wished for anything better.
However, that term from a cultural perspective may be quite correct and it is another way of saying: “we Turks are an uncivilized bunch which have abused every nation we had contact with through genocide and we are proud of it”.
Abused EVERY nation we had contact with through genocide. The AW history professor strikes again. I guess Bosnia, Macedonia, Kosovo, and Albania are not nations we Turks have ever had contact with. To name a few.
The acts of genocidal intent against the Armenians were initiated earlier than 1915, but ‘technically’ that is when it “started”, so the acts of genocide were committed by Turks in their transitionary period going from the Ottoman empire to the current republic which is based on Young Turk (ie Genocidal) ideology, thereby having limited their contacts with the people you mentioned.
.
Even so, although whether invading and oppressing the lands and people of Bosnia, Macedonia, Kosovo, Albania, etc qualifies as genocide or not may be open to interpretation from a technical standpoint, I guess if we change the term to:
…
“we Turks are an uncivilized bunch which have abused every nation we had contact with through oppression, or massacres or genocides and we are proud of it”, it would get your stamp of approval… correct?
.
I hope the normal Turks realize that I am referring here to Turks who are brainwashed, fanatical extremists who feel it necessary to “defend their honor” (despite the lack of it) even when it involves the most heinous acts attributed to them (when they claim ‘the only friend of a Turk is a Turk).
The Balkans war was in 1912. The AG started in 1915. Seems close enough to me. I highly doubt the people in the aforementioned nations, who have historically and modern day good relations with Turks and Turkey would reflect on their Ottoman history as oppressive, let alone genocidal. And there’s no “technical” aspect to it. There simply was no genocide perpetrated by Turks in Bosnia or Albania. For the most part we are proud of our Ottoman history, yes- the days when we were a much more powerful and formidable player in the world stage. This becomes especially true when your people are very patriotic. Up until late 19th century and early 20th century Ottoman history i personally find little to be ashamed of. However it is untrue to say that Turks are proud of their genocidal history because in the mind of most Turks, there was no genocide, therefore nothing to be proud of.
And if you want to make it clear that your reference of “Turk” refers to only a certain portion of Turks, you may not want to start a sentence with “we Turks are an uncivilized bunch….”
RVDV… I don’t know whether or not you intentionally act you lack intelligence about the history.. but you are very smart and know very well that barbarian uncivilized Turkmen started killing WAY BEFORE 1915…
for someone who had a different tone several months ago when it came to Genocide and Armenian understanding, you sure changed your mind.. interesting..
NOTE: going forward, when and if I mention TURKS.. I refer to ULTA NATIONALISTS, BRAINWASHED Turks.. I don’t HAVE TO MENTION THIS OVER AND OVER for you or any Turk to understand what i mean.. and I can speak for Haig as well because i am sure he would not want to say this again and again.. it should be CLEAR we are nto as paranoid, racist and inhumane as many in Turkey.. hope that helped…
Gayane:
My views have not changed about the Armenian genocide or Armenian understanding. I have not changed my mind on Turkey’s culpability on the genocide and reparations that should/need to be paid (and my position against territorial transfer remains as well). Since literally my first post on this site I have maintained that Pre-1839 (or so) Ottoman Empire was no more nor no less violent or barbaric than any other world empire at the time. I maintain this position to this day for (in my mind) one simple reason: because it’s the truth. As recent/modern Armenian history has been marked with events such as the Hamidian Massacres and the AG, I find it natural and normal for Armenians to have a somewhat (in my opinion) distorted view of Ottoman history as a whole.
Yes, Turks and the related Turkmens did not start murdering people for the first time in 1915. They did not start widespread massacres for the first time in 1915. But the genocide did start in 1914-15, even if the genocidal intent was shown in 1895 and 1909.
Aaah,dear turkish bros, sistas and lgbts,you must be in a very cold turkey state of mind talking such turkey!!! We love you all so very very much and we pray Allah gives you enough strength to withstand all our love!!!
@Avery I have no quarrel with Kurdish number.On the other hand; It is both dangerous and separatist action to count kurds on your fingers.What is the method of estimating ethnic identification in Turkey? Measuring skull size and nose length, and recording the color of hair and eyes to determine whether people belong to which race or ethnicity? It’s okay to dream! but don’t discard your fantasies as merely wishful thinking. Identifying other people’s ethnicity has always been a powerful political tool for controlling, marginalizing, and even getting rid of them. From the early 1930’s through the mid 1940’s, the Nazi’s in Germany methodically labeled people as being Jews even though they did not always personally identify themselves as such.It seems to me that you hold a fascist worldview. In modern democracies , the citizenship above race and ethnicity.I am against fascism…In future, I hope Turkey will be a homeland for peaceful armenians feel yourself as Turk around the word just like kurds albanians circassian, georgians in Türkiye..Turkishness is not an ethnic identity..
Avery,
I believe that the Kurdish population of Turkey is about 12M but I should add that Turks and Kurds are not like Turks and Armenians interms of relationship even though one part of Kurdish society supports the armed struggle against Turkey.For example, There are a few millions of mix families. The Culture , religion and customs are similar so turks and kurds live side by side a cross the country.
John the Turk:
Regarding the actual numbers of Kurds and mixed: nobody really knows, except perhaps the Turkish MIT, because up until recently most Kurds’ identity was deliberately suppressed and erased, e.g. “Mountain Turks”, and most common folk were afraid to say they are Kurds. Same as “hidden” Armenians. Customs, religion etc may be similar, but Kurds are a different people and identify themselves as such. If you don’t believe me, find a single Turkish flag at Kurdish Novruz celebrations. Single Turkish anything. [Turkish President Abdullah Gül has criticized the absence of Turkish flags in Diyarbakır during Nevruz celebrations on Thursday, agreeing with Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, who voiced a similar complaint on Thursday and Friday].(TodaysZaman)
You and other Turks that think like you are terrified and in denial: you want to pretend Kurds are the same as Turks, because you know what’s coming around the corner. Even PM Erdogan is so terrified of Kurds, that he said this (his quote in an article):
{According to Turkish government statistics, the average Kurdish woman in Turkey gives birth to about four children, more than double the rate for other Turkish mothers.
Thus, Turkey is facing a demographic time-bomb – Kurds, who tend to be concentrated in the country’s impoverished southeast and are generally poorer and less educated, could conceivably outnumber Turks within about 30 years should present patterns persist.
Erdogan seems to be certain this will happen.
“If we continue the existing trend, [the year] 2038 will mark disaster for us,” Erdogan warned in May 2010.}
That is one of the main reasons PM Erdogan has been running around recently urging (Turk) women to have 3-4 children.
Oppressors are always terrified when they sense those whom they have been oppressing may get the upper hand and do to them what they have been doing to others for generations.
Would you like to think that John the Turk??? and i believe you nationalists are dreaming.. allow Kurds to create their own nation and we will see if they have the same love for Turks as Turks for Turks..
What do we understand from the word “harming the country”? In which way and to what extent can they harm the country? If that means, we are going to get rid of the AKP government, they are welcome to do so.
I think it means demanding human rights and fair treatment (like Armenians have been doing since the Ottoman era).
You mean that harming the country means demanding human rights and fair treatment?
If you really would like to know what harming a country means, look at the example of Armenia, partiularly the Armenian politicians, they represent the best examples, and they do their best to cause harm to Armenia, they do it very well. Congrats !!
What’s surprising about this survey is that the percentage is not higher, i.e. Turks like all people know that when they’ve done something wrong to others, those others will want in the best case apology and some kind of justice, and in the worst case revenge and retribution.
Taking the case of the Armenians for example, Turks have raped and pillaged our nation for some 1,000 years and have, with the notable exception of commendable Turks such as Taner Akcam, made no apology for it. Instead adding insult to injury they rub might over right in our faces and are shocked when we dare to speak the truth. What lesson do we Armenians take from this Turkish attitude… oh yes we get the message loud and clear about might over right, i.e. get more might than your enemy.
Plain and simple, Turks made Armenians and Greeks into enemies and effectively left us no choice other than to treat the Turks as enemies. The way around this of course is through examples of Turks like Taner Akcam who would encourage mutual dialog based on truth, not propaganda. Unfortunately the alternative is increased polarization between peoples and yes, the Turks are in a sense correct to be concerned about Armenians. We Armenians and Greeks and Kurds and Jews and all others who have been oppressed by the Ottoman Empire and it’s last dying remnant, the Republic of Turkey, expect and require, just as Turks would if they were in our shoes, justice. One way or another we will aim to get that justice. It’s only a matter of time.
Absolutely Robert.. it is only a matter of time.. the skeleton doesn ot stay in the closet tooo long.. it will be discovered sooner or later…
Who cares what the Turks think? Lets be honest, generally, no one likes or trusts Turks anyways. Ask any race under Turkish rule, they will all agree, Turks brought NOTHING good. The current Turkish state was created by mass murder and theft and has been in denial ever since. What are they going to say? Also, the “proud Turk”? What a facade for low self esteem. You people fool no one.
a note for editor; The survey that was reported on Agos say %70 instead of %51 so you can go and check online as you will see the number
There are several percentages in the survey:
AW wrote ‘seventy’ (70) at the top, that is easy to miss, because it was not a numeral: {“Seventy percent of teachers and students in Adana think that if the opportunity presents itself, some Jews, Greeks, and Armenians in Turkey would cause harm to the country.”}
And: {“Fifty-one percent think that “the Turks have no friends other than fellow Turks,” “}
—-
Here are some quotes from Hurriyet article about that survey:
[According to the results, 22.3 percent of participants agreed the statement that, “Some of the Greeks, Armenians, Kurds, Alevis, and Jews could attempt to harm our country if they had the chance,” while 46.7 percent said they partially agreed with it, and only 29.8 percent disagreed with the statement.] (that’s where 70% comes from )
[However, with regard to the sentence, “The common culture, built by various communities including Turks, Greeks, Armenians, and Kurds who are living in Anatolia together for centuries, is our greatest fortune,” 56.8 percent felt it to be true, while 29.4 felt it was partially true. Also, the survey revealed that 48.9 percent found the expression, “Turks have no friends other than Turks,” completely wrong.] (100%-49%=51%)
The answer percentage to the ‘common culture’ question is very strange, given the other percentages.
70% sounds right: a survey in 2011 by Bahçesehir University (a survey of randomly selected sample of 1,605 Turks in 54 cities) found that, among other results: [82 percent have a negative opinion of Christians while only 4 percent have a favorable opinion of Jews]
—-
It is a little hard to make sense of the questions as translated in English: a lot of foreign words cannot be literally translated to English and others have subtle, but important changes in meaning when translated.
To get the true sense of what was asked in the survey, one must be a native Turkish speaker living/lived in Turkey.
There are a lot of polls conducted in US: even if you speak fluent English, there are ‘Americana’ words that have unique local meanings.
I am not in the least bit surprised about the results of this survey. Why this survey was taken is a whole another story. You need to understand the fundamentals behind the Turkish mentality in regards to the indigenous Armenians and the Greeks in order to understand the results of such bogus surveys. No matter how long the Turks have lived in this region with the Armenians, the Greeks and the others, they are outsiders not indigenous to the lands they govern. They were invaders and occupiers of other people’s lands for centuries. It is natural for a nation that has established itself on lands of the natives, by wiping and driving them out, to react this way towards them. It is not that the Turks don’t trust the Armenians and the Greeks but that they have deliberately, over the years, nurtured and created an atmosphere of fear in Turkey from anyone non-Turkish as a defense mechanism to protect their stolen properties. What better way for the thieving Turks to hold on to the properties of the natives than by demonizing and bastardizing the victims of their theft?
This is a natural course of events for the Turks that have no concept of democracy and whatever they have they acquired through force and brutality. They first invaded and occupied, then they depopulated the occupied regions of the natives and populated them their own or others loosely related to them so as to claim majority, then they drew their artificial borders and claim sovereignty over the territories of the Christian natives, then they reinvented and rewrote their history, then in the last 90 years since the establishment of fascist Turkey in 1923 they carefully nurtured and brainwashed a generation of ultranationalists and racists, and now they consider themselves the victims of the very same people they murdered. Don’t ever be surprised by these bogus surveys and statistics. This is what the Turks are all about. No surprises here!
A racist complaining about racism. Classic.
RVDV:
please substantiate your charge of ‘racist’ with concrete examples.
http://armenianweekly.com/2013/01/25/heavy-police-presence-in-samatya-after-attacks-on-armenians/
See his comment posted on January 27th… and my reply. Does calling a whole people a bunch of cowards seem like something a racist might do?
“Let the Axerbaijani dogs bark while the Armenian caravan moves on!”
I assume you would be offended if I called Armenia, Ermenia and called Armenians ‘dogs’, no? Not a sign of tolerance. Racist? Perhaps? Or is his assessment of Azeris true?
While addressing a Turkish poster named Tuna:
“Turkey is like an advanced cancer that must be attacked fiercely, ferociously and from every direction until it ceases to exist. It must be eradicated and that day will come sooner or later, it is just a matter of time. Run for your life Tuna if I ever get to play any part in the attack.”
If that’s not proof, then I don’t know what to tell you Avery.
Well said Ararat jan.. your clear break down of the facts makes great sense.. paranoid nation… thieves and murderors are always paranoid..
Ararat 100% true. The big secret in Turkey is its past. Turkey does jail more journalists per capita then China or Iran.. Imagine any country needing laws to counter any possibility of anyone speaking the truth that it creates a crime called “insulting Turkishness”?
It’s just information warfare, RV. When the Genocide is recognized, peace is made, and our border becomes Euphrates once more, it all will be history.
RVDV.. your examples do not show racism… the examples you provided shows the direct explanation as to how Turkey was and is… i am sorry but your examples do not justify your statement…
Following up on Hagop D’s post,
Since the invasion of Armenia in the 11th century by the Seljuk Turks, then followed by wave after wave of central Asian hordes (admitedly I’m not making a distinction here between various kinds of Turks, e.g. Turkomans, Tamerlane, and the rest), life has generally not gone that well for Armenians in their historic homeland, e.g. massacre, forced conversion from Christianity to Islam, deportation, the list goes on and on into the modern day with the Armenian Genocide of 1915 – 1923, the confiscation of historical Armenian lands (yes… check the maps going back to before the Roman empire if in doubt) at the end of World War I in direct conflict with treaties of the day, and of course lets not forget the ongoing war mongering from Azeri president Aliev over Karabakh.
The point and question here, is what on earth do the Armenians and Turks have anything to be friends about? Turks have oppressed, stolen from, and killed Armenians for a 1000 years. Can anyone really expect then for Turks and Armenians to be anything but enemies? The great irony here is that that the majority of such Turks are very likely Armenian in terms of their DNA (a recent scientific paper shows the proof of this at least in terms of Turks in the eastern regions), likely being the decendents of Turkified Armenians over the centuries.
Considering all the above one might say the future between Turks and Armenians looks bleak. There is however another way as pointed to by notable Turks like professor Taner Akcam, which is the telling of the truth instead of hiding in mythological thinking, i.e. there was an Armenian Genocide which really was the culmination of a 1,000 years of oppression against the Armenians. Importantly during that 1,000 years there were abundant examples of good and courageous Turks who helped Armenians. My family is one such example wherein a Turkish family hid my Armenian family during the 1895 massacres. The point here is that we need to get away from the poloarizing view of evil Turks and angelic Armenians (yes… there were examples of bad Armenians that betrayed their own people) and instead consider that there are good and bad people of all races. Further we need to reach out towards Anatolian comonality, i.e. ethnically Turks and Armenians are very close if not the same people, all of this or course within the context of historical truth and reality. Is it really so difficult to find common ground? If not then get ready for another 1,000 years of strife.
@Avery Why are you so interested in turkish demograpy..There are between 12000 and 13000 Armenian citizens working illegally in Turkey
The most demaging activities of Armenian diospora is the decline of Armenian population 1,5 million people of the Armenian population lives in rural areas in poor condition. According to their own official statistics, every year more than 100,000 people leave the country.
Hopelessness, tranny, poverty and economic decline are features that distinguish Armenia from other countries. This is a Mental Genocide.
Rojin..you should not talk… your people have been on our lands illegally more than 90 years… so instead of complaining about illegal Armenians.. because there are no such things.. Armenians are on THEIR own lands.. you should worry about how you can make your country’s wrong right.. meaning starting to change your mentality and start thinking like a human being first before a Turk.
Just a thought..
Avery
“Regarding the actual numbers of Kurds and mixed: nobody really knows”
you are completely wrong about this.We have a good idea of the Kurdish population of Turkey thanks to the surveys conducted very often by different companies. yes we get different figures from different surveys but when you learn how to read the patterns between these surveys done over the years, you do not get it wrong. If you look at some nationalist Kurds they can dream a Kurdish population up to 30M but I always read the latest surveys that are reported in the papers. If you get similar numbers from different surveys over the years done by different companies .you are obviously tempted to believe this so I firmly believe that my figure is probably the most accurate figure.
Yes there was no flag in the Kurdish Navruz celebration but remember these are PKK supporters and form only one segment of the Kurdish population. These people have never flew Turkish flag in the past let alone during this celebration. I think that the only reason the president criticised this time is because he wanted them to be part of the Turkish nation as they were negotiating the peace process.
Kurds can never outnumber Turk in the foreseeable future due to their declining birth rate which is not unusual in every part of the world, However, Turkey needs Kurdish children as well. you are totally wrong about the assumption that PM wants 3 kids because Kurds are populating more. what PM Erdogan says is birth rate is declining and we need every couple to have 3 children so we can maintain sustainable growth otherwise Turkey will need to import immigrants from abroad so of course what Erdogan said about having more babies can entertain you guys but I personally do not worry about Kurdish population or even Armenian population in Turkey.If Turkey can succeed in this peace negotiations, I think that a brilliant future will be at the end of the tunnel
Whether 51% or 70%, these are extremely high numbers. Too high to be random variations of attitude or opinion. They reflect institutionalized societal prejudice and paranoia. In my opinion, these are learned attitudes. They can be unlearned—if Turkish society is willing.
Thank you Ararat for your excellent analysis of this xenophobic survey. I myself was wondering why they would take such a poll. Your explanation makes perfect sense.
The comments were more than the content of the article. Perhaps the whole study(?) is a ruse…be aware of the mentality you’re faced with and it appears not much has really changed over the last 98 years…
Dear Jirair,
Please elaborate further on the nature of the Turks.My take on the issue is concise and in precis format, as follows:-
We Armenians do not hate Turks..but we do not wish them to stay on our Western Armenian lands.Plain as that.Give them this example…
The Spanish conquistadores invaded and took near all of the South Americas…but the were driven out(not wanted9 they graciously pulled out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now they are back in a civil fashion investing and helping them prosper. Thence the hate that did exist between the locals of S.America has subsided,especially when they see the help they get from them and for your info there are over 500,000 new(since some doz.yrs in Spain from HISPANO AMERICA…
TURKS SHOULD LEARN FROM THESE EXAMPLES.
One more thing.S.America NEVER RECEIVED SO MUCH MONETARY AID FROM NORTH AMERICA, as did great Turkey.Why? because uncle Sam and the Brits still think that great Turkey is a their ally ..BUT AGAINST WHOM, IS MY QUESTION, the mighty ex-soviet union(Now also pretty important Russia onm the political scene??if so,they err.Proof. last WWII,when great Turkey played a big trick on the allies ..first they were with Germany till the llth hour,when latter about to be capitulated,KAPUT, they declared war on Germany.Sometimes the big diplomats also make a lot of mistakes too. IRAN, for instance….could indeed be a much more reliable -trading partner-shall we say and also to observe over Middle East peace then the Turks..but who really listens to that..
Oh the Jews and Israel.One mistake made by pres. Ahmadinehat(which he should not have uttered<9 has made the Jews think iran really means to wipe out..well silly indeed the pres.Ahmadinezhad to say that when in his country NOW also reside plenty of Jews.Leave you guys to pursuade Turks to be like the Spanish.Latter produces Javier Solanas(10 yrs at head of EU–politics…remember???
Mr. Palandjian… we are talking about Turkey.. turkish govt with their ultra nationalists and brainwashed people are barbarians in modern times.. if they had any shred of desency, or human heart, they would have taken examples and make this right.. but instead of making any wrongs right, they do more and more wrongs..
Turkish poppulation mentality towards Christians has been maintained since the days of Trimoverate pasha young turks who masterminded the genocide. Not that they are genocidal, but they maintain fear and even haterate of Christians and non-muslims inherited for more than 100 years, going back to 1800’s when all Ottoman was in turmoil. Turkish nationalism is strong and dangerous. So, maybe not so much for genocide, but possiblity of crimes and herrasements agains Armenians and Greeks is strong and can get worse.
One more thing that makes all the difference between what befell other people,when conquered and were ruled upon.A VERY IMPORTANt DIFFERENCE…..
Armenians were EVICTED….FROM centuries old homes Habitat!
Those other nations/people were submitted to Genocide,or holocaust were EITHER NOT ON THEIR LANDS/HABITAT (LIKE THE JEWS) AND/OR THOSE IN THE BALKANS stayed on…….on ancestral land.
Thence it is of the utmost important to ahve that in view in making comparisons.Armenians not only were submitted to DEATH, but also latter occured while being slaughtered and also after being EVICTED. I do believe many will agree that our CASE IS UNIQUE!!!!
good point Gaytzag,
The mass exodus of Armenains wasn’t one with good ending, but one with no ending. It’s effect on Armnians whose lands were occupied by our ancestors for many Millenia continues up until today in the collective memmory of our diaspora and the little modern Amrnia left to us. So, if the Bulkans don’t care about Ottomans is because before the Ottomans had the chance of claiming their land to be theirs they eventually got rid of Ottomans. The isolated Armenains weren’t so lucky. However, Bulkans has reasons to look back for justice as well, becasue maybe not millions, but tens of thousands of Orthodox Christians died because of it. In addition, if you notice, the prosperious nations of the middle ages that had major role in history going back to antiquity such as Greece, Armenia, Bulgaria, and some other that occupide areas around black sea are now weakened nations. Many of which are still struggling after Ottoman empire. Third is the fact that Armenains lost the most out of several Christian groups inside asia minor who also lost significantly, second to us are the Greeks and then Assyrians. Turkey is accountable toweards all these, but most of all to Armenains whose diaspora has almost 4 times the poppulation of inside Armenia and whose lands are mostly occupied by Turks and Azeris.
If it wasn’t for their defeat in Balkans Turks would of claimed there as their ancestral lands as they do Western Armenia. Of course many Turks carry traces of our ancestors in their blood, who converted in order to save their and their family’s lives. That added to our loss as they gained. But, I am glad we all are here still discussing this rather than vanish like the ruthless Ottomans wished so. We have come a long way surviving and keeping the memmory of genocide survive as well. That sure keeps Turkish government busy.
I actually found this article laughable. Today’s Turks act as if they are historically high-achieving and honorable people who helped the world so much, and now are fighting against the forces of evil who are “out to get them”. What a joke. Someone please teach these lunatics some real history. After countless cultural thefts, forced assimilations and massacres they next conclude their victims “would hurt them given the chance”. No S**t, Sherlock. And what was it you were really expecting, your victim-neighbors invite you all to a friendly chat over tea? Pfff get real. A classic case of genocide perpetrators blaming their victims for their criminal past.
How right you are Gayane,-up above to RVDV.that let the kurds decide by themselves and you will see how many wish to stay w/great Turkey??
it is no use, the top echelon of the Turks is fascist minded and will be so untill such time as -especially-uncle Sam supports them.Rest, GB ,FR etc., really don´t paint much in theat area.
We must be patient and wait no other thing to do.Alos indeed minternally get geared up organize oursleves like the JEWS.I hate to copy others but this I said , to cut it short.
rgds
We all should know who the enemy is. Turkey, has attempted to reach Armenians for long time, trying desparately to succeed in their deceat. But, we all should know who the enemy is. The enemy is Turkey, without a doubt, regardless of their offers, dialogues, historic facts symposiums, bi-lateral document reviews, or other treaks. Also, we all should know who the enemy is, regardless of their self entitled heroism, the Turkish flags they hang on every street, the act of standing their ground on the issue of genocide, and their their pride on the history they advocate. Because these acts may make their leaders and politicians more proud Turks with defiance, but at the end they are guilty beneath the shell that covers their empty souls. And from now and then, some among these herd of liers and denialist steaks his head out and spits a peace of the truth to the world. A geologist knows that where there is a small hole with magma gushing out, there lies a large vent the size of a street block underneath. So, this little word by a handful of Turkish students sure is only a fraction of the 57 or so million people who call themselves Turks. But, They do represent the big vent of hatrate and nationalistic view of the brainwashed youngesters who have already jumped on the bandwagon. Keep up the good fight Armenia and diaspora.
I keep on coming back to this article, because it has a great deal of importance. First, it bring to light the complete picture, rather than just the Armenians. An Ottoman initiated ethnic cleansing campaign to get ride of Christians. Second, it bring to light the life and pressures the minority Christians go through in order to get through the day in Turkish cities and other areas. Third this just shows how much Turkey is getting away with.
To: RVDV
I must say it is a sheer dilettante historicism to state that pre-1839 (I’d say pre-1804, Serbian Revolution and pre-1821, Greek War of Independence) “Ottoman Empire was no more no less violent or barbaric than any other empire at the time.” It’s not the truth, Sir. If one follows your flawed view, then I guess Ottoman’s predecessors Seljuk Turks would miraculously become courteous indigenous inhabitants of the area, not uncouth nomadic terrorizing nomads from Central Asian steppes. If one follows your flawed view, then I guess Ottoman expansion in the 15th-16th centuries by defeating Persia, Egypt, Hungary, Mesopotamia, and laying sieges to Vienna—proceeded peacefully and in the most civilized manner, so “typical” to the Turks.
Dear Sir, Ottoman expansion saw brutality of the Turks as in Battle of Varna, Battles of Kosovo, destruction and Islamization of Byzantine Greek capital of Constantinople, Battle of Chaldiran, Battle of Mohács, Sieges of Vienna, and many more invasions into the lands of others. With Turks’ appearance in Syria, Mesopotamia, Byzantium, Arabia, Egypt, Armenia, and Greece, civilization invariably vanished. Victor Hugo has described this blighting expansion of the Ottoman Turks in the following lines: “Les Turcs ont passé a tout est ruine et deuil” (the Turks have traversed there, all is ruin and mourning).
The truth remains that all indigenous nations that were colonized by the Ottomans loathed them for their expansionist, brutal, uncivilized, and highly discriminatory attitudes towards the natives. Even your fellow Muslim Arabs had a proverb at the time of colonization: “Three things naught but evil work–the locust, the vermin, and the Turk.”
Yes, Turks did not start widespread massacres of the Armenians for the first time in 1915. They started them in 1894 under Abdul the Damned and before them there was widespread denigration of the Armenians as second-class objects: voiceless, oppressed, legally and physically unprotected, heavily taxed, unarmed, and much more. Many elements of the 1894 Hamidian massacres would be reproduced during the 1915 Armenian Genocide leading some scholars to think that the actual beginning of the Armenian Genocide is 1894 not 1915.
Well said John jan..
Turks and askhenazi jews are invaders they promote liberalism and destroy all country’s they occupy.. Anatolia was rich country before ottoman invasion and today’s its turkey . They use manipulation and blame to excuse their elite inability of holding country. Look how all invaded ottoman country’s ended up .